Mavs Weekly European & Challenge tour update - WGC HSBC Champions

First topic message reminder :

So to start the weeks update with a little touch of de Ja vu, in as much that we are again congratulating Sergio Garcia on a tournament win in Spain. The thing El Nino can take from his 2nd victory in as many weeks is that this time he closed out when not playing his best, unlike the previous week where he left the field in his wake. Moving back up to number 18 in the world is a great step on the road to recovery for Sergio and let’s hope it’s truly just the begining.
So now we move forward to the WGC HSBC Champions event at Sheshan International Club in Shanghai.
Last year this event became a bit of a 2 horse race between Francesco Molinari and Lee Westwood. Notable tied 3rd place finshers were Luke Donald who has now gone onto become World No.1 and Richie Ramsey who has hit form in his last 2 events before returning to China.

SO what do we know about this week?

1. Firstly the main notable absentee, OWGR #1 Luke Donald. No point really highlighting the field and trying to pick a winner as except for Luke and a few high profile yanks everyone that is anyone plus a few more is here.

2. 11 of the finishers inside the top 12 at Sheshan in 2010 were European tour members

3. There will be 13 major winners competing at Sheshan this week

4. Established in 2009 by Diasuke Maruyama and then matched by Ernie Els and Rory McIlroy, in the
same event, the course record stands at 63

5. There has only ever been one player to win this event after leading every round from round 1 through 4 and that’s defending champion Francesco Molinari

6. The course opened in 2004, Measures at 7253 yards and holes 16, 17 and 18 are course designers Neil Haworth’s perfect picture finish to his course.

Not much else to say about this event other than it’s on at ridiculous o’clock in the morning so viewing figures will really vary which is what makes this the hardest WGC to follow unless your able to be up at the crack of dawn.

Challenge Tour

So its grand final week on the CT, this is it. It’s do or die moment for many players looking to make the tour proper in the very last event. The ones that are locked on to make are likely to be numbers 1-12 on the money list with the ones outside that number likely to fluctuate over the course of the event.
San Domenico is the venue for this event and last year’s winner our very own (through my association and constant will for him to make it) Matt Haines secured number 2 spot on the CT Money list, so many will be looking to emulate that this week.

Tommy Fleetwood who has led the money list for so long this season see’s himself at #2 now on the list having been passed by fellow Englishman Sam Little, both playing will want to secure bragging rights to being the number 1 ranked player to have finished the season on the CT and with just over 11000Euros separating them it really is going to the wire.
So can someone from this year’s CT emulate the likes of previous graduate Ed Molinari and go on to win the following season on the ET proper or will they be heading back to Q-School next year. One things for sure for all of these guys whatever happens the work really begins this Thursday either way


*MODS any chance of the usual weekly sticky please

McIlroy will need a hug from his girlie, went at the pin on 14 in 2 and sprayed it right into the water. He's going to have an awkward putt for par and seeing as he can't buy a putt at the moment this could be the one that he makes. Unfortunately it was normal service and a disappointing bogey.

Kaymer is going to have a great birdie chance on 15. It could be his 5th birdie in 6 holes on the back nine. Casey in trouble on 15 but sticks his 3rd shot close, could still save par.

Some round Kaymer is putting together. Huge mistake on 16 from Freddi Jac and great birdie on 17 from Kaymer and what a par save by Casey

Kaymer has been like a machine on this back nine, 2 slight errors on 14 and 16 cost him on holes where you would think birdie. If he doesn't do anything stupid on 18 he is going to put the pressure on Freddy.

Casey just couldn't keep it together and started grinding out pars. Freddy looking a little shaky but still in with a chance.

What Kaymer is doing can only be termed extraordinary!

Nice shot into 18, holes the putt for a 63 and would surely walk away with the big prize

Freddy needs to find his magic putter that he was using yesterday.

Wow, that's the way to finish a tournament. The roar must have got to Freddy and that's his challenge gone.

1GrumpyGolfer wrote:Freddy needs to find his magic putter that he was using yesterday.

I think Kaymer may have stolen it. 29 for the back nine. Worth getting out of bed early on my day off to watch.

Truly fantastic and Freddie the Yak's miss on 17 means it's game over.

I just checked the fantasy picks and only one person selected Kaymer.

As a reserve!

Well, he's had a bad year Hibbz!

Ha ha, yeah I bet he was on the verge of quitting.

I of course would have picked him for certain had I not been lower league scum.

Grumpers,
Not sure how you could go out drinking on a Saturday night and stay up to watch this. Remarkable!

Much better account of the action than the various agency reports I've read.
Trust you have an early tee-time this morning!

Kwini - glad you liked it, some of the golf was amazing, like Hibbz mentioned Kaymer looked like he had stolen Freddy's magic putter. At other times it was like my golf, but the players were 50-100 yards further down the hole.

Didn't want to spoil it for those that were getting up early this morning to watch the replay or the end. Had nothing on this morning and the missus is away so easy enough to keep watching. Early tee times would just mean you're first on the list to go out whenever the frost has cleared. Might walk part of my course this afternoon.

Grumpy,
Just watched the last hour on replay - lots of sputtering and stalling of the likely lads to challenge.
Pleased for Martin Kaymer, though, and hope that it's the impetrus he needs for a successful 2012. Having said that, the Media has been full of this being a down year for Kaymer, but I see he has the fourth most owgr points, only Simpson among the Americans with more, so not that bad!

Last day of the season at most Clubs round here today; may zip down the Northway to play Saratoga on Tuesday, though. Plus some clubs in the Montreal area will stay open as long as they can, one actually in Montreal (a Pat Ruddy course that could be in the middle of nowhere) that we go to occasionally will stay open until the snow is here to stay.

G'morn!

What a round of golf turned in by Kaymer. I quit watching when Kaymer chipped in from the bunker for his first birdie. Never imagine that he would birdie 8 of the last 11 to storm to his first WGC win.

On the other hand, Rory, the little boy within him showed up again. The most alarming thing about him is that he keeps missing short putts on big stage in the final round. No matter, he is very pleased with himself. Here's his tweet: “@McIlroyRory: 4th wasn't what I was looking for but still a solid week overall. On the upside I'll move to number 2 in the world rankings tomorrow! ”

I guess he couldn't resist taking a dig at Lee, his former stable mate. How petty!

Simba wrote:
I guess he couldn't resist taking a dig at Lee, his former stable mate. How petty!

This is what I was getting at earlier Simba... I appreciate you and Mav don't much like McIlroy, same as I can't stand Woods. But he's pleased that he's moved up in the rankings, that's just normal, not petty! If he'd just won a tournament over Westwood, tweeting "Pleased with my win today" wouldn't be a dig at Westwood, just celebrating... this is the same. Seems like some on here (and it was happening well before you signed up!) take any opportunity they can to get a moan in.


Anyway... I've been telling people for months on here that the "decline" of Kaymer has been greatly exaggerated, and his season's not actually been that bad. Now it's better than alright... nice way to prove it too! Can't help but feel that if certain unnamed players birdied 9 of their last 12 to win a WGC from way behind, there'd be a lot more talk about it than there is now. Ever the quiet man...

Kwini,

Don't know about you, but I especially enjoy this time of the year playing golf in the northern reaches of the US. All the club losing, beer chugging, cart driving weekend hackers are gone. We are left with the die hards and low handicappers. I seem to play much better. Less distractions!

Ned,

This is what I have been missing the past 6 months, spirited debate about such trivias in golf.

No, I don't dislike Rory like you do Tiger. I am an equal opportunity critic of all players. What McIlroy is doing is not constructive to his no.1, future of the game image. Winning is to be celebrated. Becoming no.1 in owgr is to be celebrated. Taking joint fourth and moving up one spot in the ranking is not significant if you have been trying to show everyone that you were the baddest of up comers!

There is no other way to interpret it as a dig to Westwood. IT IS PETTY! And immatuer just like he is holding hands with his girl friend inside the rope. Yuk, it's queasy!

Congrats to Kaymer.

Good to see GMac come third, hopes he kicks on from it as he can win another major.

Simba, if you can still see grass and its not frozen then you'll find plenty of players regardless of handicap in the NE. The beer drinking maybe curtailed but there's probably some liquor to warm the parts other drinks cannot reach, I saw plenty of hackers yesterday but the course allowed you a reasonable amount of wiggle room.

Lost in the shuffle of this great win by Kaymer was how incredible a turn around that was by GMac. After shooting 2 rounds in the 80's to finish dead last a week ago. He shoots four rounds in the 60's to tie 3rd in a WGC. Always respect his mental fortitude. This just reinforces that. GMac will always be one of my favorites!

Kwini,

Waggle room, as you put it, is aplenty here in the Rockies. Played the Donald Ross course here and there was open hole on both front and back of my group. Took us 3:40 to complete a leisurely played round. Last month, when the temp was in the 70s, it took us 4:40!

Also, we play here year round, even when the grass turned into cow patch brown.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this I guess Simba! I'm no massive Rory fan, I don't cheer him on any more than Westwood or Donald or whoever, but I haven't got a problem with what he tweeted, or his Mrs, or much else about him really.

Ned,

Always fancied myself a good public relation man. So I take a keen interest on how these super star folders are presented by their team or themselves. Most of the times the PR firm they work with are clueless. As we say in the business, devil is in the details!

Not that I care particularly, but I'd like to see what justification is offered if someone other than Luke Donald now wins the PGA Tour players' player of the year...

On semi-related matters, I see that Kaymer has overtaken McIlroy for 2nd in the Race to Dubai (whereas I was just trying to see how far behind Rory remained).

The world of golf desperately needs someone like Kaymer to be No.1 and the main draw. Rory is too moody. Donald to consistently good but never great and NO MAJOR!

Go, Martin!!!

well done kaymer. amazing finish, up there with donalds at disney.

well done casey and rose as well- both put in good displays.

simba- donalds no.1 for a reason but you are wrong that he is never great(he proved greatness at disney)- i do however agree that kaymer would be a deserved no.1 but you have to be honest donald has gone up a level and put them to in a final day final group major and id probally back donald(which one you ask!!) either way thats what i want for the masters next year

A Kaymer-Donald battle down the stretch would be a great advert for golf... think I'd back Kaymer though! And would be tempted to throw in Westwood and McIlroy too... is there much doubt now that those are the 4 best in the world?

lukes brother carrys kaymers bag so maybe just maybe he might give kaymer the wrong yardage

Mysti,

Disney was a second tier PGA Tour akin to a opposite field event. WGC is WGC the best all play it. No comparison. That's the thing about Luke. He is always going to be under appreciated until he can come up big on a major.

This win by Kaymer is so much more impressive. Don't get me wrong, Luke is the best player right now. But he is not going to last.

i cant agree with your assesment at all.

the tourny wasnt just a tourny it was a shoot out for the money list, and had a goodish field.

the WGC had a relatively good field but lets be honest there arnt really world championships, there are in name only.

donald put pressure on himself to get the title and he did it when it mattered- thats why i see that win as possibly definning his future . he handled the pressure well and performed under it

secondly although the HSBC invites the best in the world, and many europeans turned up and performed well, the PGA topur regulars didnt turn up- not dimmishing kaymers acheivement at all and i put it up there with donalds win- because both did what they needed to at the time back 9- donald 6 straight birdies back 9, kaymer 7 under back 9- unbelivable golf, one to win the money list, one to win a wgc(forget the disney tourny thats imnmaterial)

Did you see Tim Finchem's face duting the post-round interview with Kaymer? He didn't look like a happy camper.

Interesting you should say that pedro...

Does anyone know what Kaymer's plans for next year are? Seem to recall a suggestion a few months back that he might be considering the US, but not heard anything on that front recently. They've been spinning the line all day about Kaymer being eligible for the Hyundai Champions event in Hawaii, but I'd be surprised if he went there given how well he plays in the Middle East events. They had the same problem last year with Kaymer's PGA win and Molinari's win here, of course... but you have to wonder how long Finchem will put up with people winning in Shanghai and snubbing his half-assed invite, before he gets the hump and withdraws the offer altogether.

kaymer has supposedly turned his back on the states and is concentrating on the ryder cup on the euro tour

mystiroakey wrote:kaymer has supposedly turned his back on the states and is concentrating on the ryder cup on the euro tour

Good to hear mysti. I would say he's probably the most Euro-committed of all the top guys, doesn't spend half his time Stateside like Poulter, Donald, Casey and Harrington, doesn't keep dithering between the two like McIlroy, and plays a lot fewer tinpot tournaments in Asia than Westwood et al. When he's on form he has the game to turn up and win anywhere he likes (except Augusta), so hopefully we'll see plenty of him in Europe next year.

Kaymer really seems like a stand up guy. Ned, I agree with you - he doesn't seem like the kind of guy travelling all over in pursuit of easy money. Unfortunately Westy and Mcilroy have been going that way lately.
Happy to see Kaymer staying in Europe.

Doesn't Kaymer still have a pad in Scottsdale? Good idea to give him a base and some flexibility?
At least Franny Molinari played Finchem's T of C.

Finchem's problem is less non-PGA Tour members winning the HSBC, it's his own guys not bothering to show up. He knows any TV audience and US media coverage is directly related to the American stars appearing.

Sounds like he has a notion to take a leaf out of the E.T.'s book and consider starting the season after the FedEx Play-Offs, so that the first events will be the Fall Series, a beefed-up Malaysia and HSBC. Have heard that speculated in the past but the AP is saying it's being put to the players for either the 2013 or 2014 seasons.

PS: Ned, Appreciate the tip on the pasties.

I would think Westwood is the most loyal European Tour supporter of all the top players. Kaymer has been saying that he is going to play full time on both tours when the time is right. I hope he start a similar schedule as Luke Donald.

The PGA Tour from October onwards has not really worked since the Fedex cup got introduced. Surely Timmy has to come up with something.

Why not postpone the Fedex cup till Nov/Dec, making a finale just like R2D? For sure the tour calender shoud follow the calender year, and not defacto end in September/early October. Is it really only to please the players playing both tours?

I'm not going to start a separate thread, but does anyone else think that Westwood has had the worst year of all the top players? A couple of 'little' wins in Asia aside, he's done pretty much nothing all year. I had high hopes for him going into this final round, given his position and the fact that he'd improved a shot each day and had 3 rounds in the 60s, but out in 40 and a total of 74 when Kaymer's shooting 63 is just disappointing. Unless he wins in Dubai he'll have had a nothing year.

pedro,
The thing about the FedEx, actually two things, preventing it being held any later, are:
1).Avoid the heart of the NFL season.
2).The top players, aka as Tiger and Phil, want to enjoy the freedom to reap appearance fees around the world in the autumn.

Actually somewhat disagree with yr argument; the Fall Series events have included compelling golf these past few years, just not many of the superstars.

Smithers,
I'm a big Westwood fan, but would say he's had the worst year of any in the current Top Ten.

Thanks Kwini, on reading my post back I worried it came across like one of these 'you idiot, I bet on you and you let me down' posts (I don't bet, and if I do and lose the last person I'd blame is the player!). I just hope he regroups, finds his putting touch and with perhaps a little less pressure on him next year wins a couple of biggies.

Smither,

I think with most of the players, you have to get used to the down years. Only a few, Kaymer, McIlroy, might be the young ones who will have consistent good years year in and year out. I'd be surprised to see Luke Donald has anything like the year he had again next year. It all goes in cycles. tiger was one of the few who made winning a habit. No one has more than three wins world wide this year. That says it all.

Simba - Donald has won 4 times this year; 2 in the US and 2 in Europe. I think that's what also makes him a great number 1. He managed his schedule so he could play both tours, he won the US money title and is currently leading the European tour by over a million Euros.

I think he still has something to show the world and his destruction of Webb Simpson at the Disney was a great start. Bring on next year.

Grumpers,
Completely agree about Donald.
Especially about his schedule which, with very few exceptions, I think he manages exquisitely. Hope he doesn't change a thing. A very underestimated part of the two-Tour guys' responsibility and no-one does it better.
Would expect him to fulfil his 3-tournament obligation at the end of the year and then be back for L.A. No point in returning earlier.

Grumpy,

I respect Luke Donald immensely, both his game and his professionalism. But I am very objective when I say he doesn't have the goods to be a perennial no.1. He will play the same game next year and he might not win once because someone else has improved their games and play better than him. Everything fell into place for him this year just like it did for GMac last year. But this is not a player in the caliber of talent like a Phil, a Tiger, a VJ, etc. There are just too many more talented players out there than him.

Simba - when you say talent what do you mean; multiple wins per season? Length of time before winning first major? Tiger excepted Phil and Vijay were pros for well over 10 years before winning their first major. Donald has a couple more years to go before that comparison can really be made. He has started to dominate the OWGR, changes to the calculations make it difficult to make a straight comparison between number ones but the percentage differential is getting up towards the Tiger domination levels.

Tiger is never a fair comparison for anyone except Jack. But by talent I mean, physical attributes of a player. Luke is average at best. Yes he is the best sand player, one of the best putters and iron players. But all these won't make up a couple of shots lost due to his length, his strength to get out real sticky lies, etc. Golf is a very physical game. One clear example is that Donald won't be able to have as many looks at eagle opportunites on a course as some of the young guns. He won't be able to onsistently make up for his physical limitations with his mental toughness, his impeccable short game. There is always going to be a couple guys who have the same strength as he does but have better talents. A young Day, a young rory, will eventually mature and over take him.

Correct me if i am wrong, but that fact that he has only won one stroke play event in the US in 8 years illustrate my point of: he is great at being one of the best but never good at being the very best.

Seems the Good Simba has been replaced by the Bad Simba.

When your scoring average is:
Par 3's: 8th
Par 4's: 18th
Par 5's: 4th
and your overall par 5 performance is 7th, precisely what "physical attributes" is Donald missing?

It's all down to his driving under pressure - if he hits the fairway coming down the final nine of any tournament, as he did under self-imposed pressure at Disney, he'll win.

And he's won 2 stroke play events in five years, three in nine years. Even he will admit that's not good enough, but you and I and the rest of the world know he'll do better the next nine years. From his Number One perch.