The New Bok coach?

http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,3818_7290950,00.html
Do you belieive in magic?

Whatever you do don't let biltongbek see this.....

Saw this on the weekend. It would be some weird agenda that would see pdv back in...

He is a strange bloke this PDV. More politics to ruin SA rugby. I feel sorry for the white man in South Africa.

It's only rugby Morgannwg. These still plenty of black people in SA who aren't exactly rolling in it. Agree with you though.

nganboy wrote:It's only rugby Morgannwg. These still plenty of black people in SA who aren't exactly rolling in it. Agree with you though.

Not sure how to respond Nganboy.

true there are people not rolling in it, but that goes for both sides of the coin, whites are in general getting poorer with less job opportunities, just about everyone these days are on a gravy train of some sorts hidden under the pretence of transformation.

I fail to understand how that has anything to do with messing about with our rugby and making us the laughing stock in world rugby though. By virtue of this pretence we are making a mockery of our rich and proud history and hence behind the scenes other rugby unions must absolutely love the way it is going, it effectively negates us a a world power in rugby and if it continues like this the politicians won't have to worry about taking the Springbok emblem away because they are destroying the value of it from within.

Perhaps it is time to realise rugby has become just another tool for political correctness and that the priority of being the world's best went out with Jake White and our last win in 2007.

It is a miracle that we still challenge the big teams. but sadly talent is not enough when competing against teams who are professionally coached,

Very well put biltongbek. While it's sad seeing Springbok rugby being laughed at there's still some way to go to reach the depths of 2002/03. Scary to think what would happen with pdv in charge of a group of average players.

I don't think boks are laughing stock, I certainly respect them and think they are a top side, hence whenever we get a victory against them, except of course when they send a thirds side over, I am really pleased.

Maybe not as bad as some are making it out if pdv gets reselected. Sometimes continuaty helps a side, and if he assembles a good coaching team then I don't think the boks will be in any problems.

Not seen, except when he 1st started, and attempt to force players into the boks side because of political objectives. some of the players may not have made it well in the internationals, but all countries have tried players at the top and they have not made it.

whoever the boks have as a head will stil be a forceful side to reckon with.

OzT, you are being polite about PDV. It is well known that the players want him to remain because then the senior players can once again run the show.

This means more of the same for the next four years and no evolution in the Gameplan and ence we will just fall further behind.

It is also well known that the players do not want to change the way that they play and the only way you will change that is by getting a no nonsense coach in there that will get rid of those who won't confom to a new way of thinking.

The kind of continuity you are talking about here has nothing to do with players, and will not benefit us at all as the same mindset is not wanted.

If PDV does continue his job you can be certain his contract will this time state that transformation must be his main objective as winning surely isn't.

Just think where it will go then, we will then not be able to remain competitive inspit of the coach, it will be a weaker team with poorer results.

If you don`t live in a country you don`t really know,but with the end of Apartheid.There was bound to be some sort of political backlash from Non-Whites.
I hate sport being used for political propaganda as it was by Germany under National Socialism,America and soviet Bloc during the Cold war and SA
during the apartheid period.
THERE is no sporting superman of ANY race,a player should be picked because he`s the best.
NOT if he happens to be white,black or purple with green spots for that matter.
THE top two teams in the World by results over the last 108 years are the All Blacks with a 75.2 % win record,and the Boks 65.4%.that does`nt change nor has it ever been.
You are like all sides from time to time in a period when your old stalwarts,Juan Smith,Matfield,Botha,Smit,James are past there best
Injuries like many sides may have hindered your best side in the RWC,the gameplan versus the Wallabies was wrong and it showed.
The Boks have more talent in depth than many other nations especially at 9 and 10.
NEVER write off a Bok side ,I certainly have too much respect for them whoever is coaching them.

But biltong, do you think the boks should change their playing style?

the no nosence straight forward style, though predictable, has been very successful. Boks tried a few 3Ns ago to play expansive backs running rugby, didn't last long cause no wins. There is something to stick to what you do best.

Of course there are good back players in SA, but maybe leave it to the current style of forward based and let the backs have the ball when the game is won.

Then again, I am no coach!!!

OzT, agree with sticking with the tried & trusted if it's successful but there's no alternative with pdv, if plan A breaks down the players continue with it. The wc game against Aus was a perfect example (ignoring any reffing issues), all the players seemed capable of doing was running into a wall again and again - there was no hint of creativity or tactics to unpick the defence. Was watching some footage of the team under White on youtube & was surprised at how good they could look with the ball in hand with players running from deep - didn't think at the time that they played much running rugby but they could when the situation demanded it.

Hi Galted, how are you?

I think those back moves were coached by eddie jones when they joined up for the 2007 RWC. I stil think those 2, White and Jones, should've stayed and the boks then would have moved on a long way. I think they were the perfect coaching team, and they had the players to make a good side too!!!

Not bad thanks OzT apart from Monday DTs. Think it would even predate Eddie Jones's stint - but going back to the world cup under White & Jones they had an answer to every situation they were confronted with - would've been interesting to see them against the likes of NZ, Aus or France in that tournament. Very unlike the current team of dumb, dumber & dumbest who watch & wait for something to happen. (Vaguely interesting aside, looked up Jake White on wikipedia re above & apparently his real name is Jacob Westerduin.)

I know about Monday's DT... had a large weekend watching Roos vs England, and the the celebratry drinks after, which went on to Sunday....

Well they didn't need to play any of the other sides in 2007, but yip, specially for me, would have loved to seen them play against the wallabies!!! Tough we couldn't get past England in that one.

OzT wrote:But biltong, do you think the boks should change their playing style?

the no nosence straight forward style, though predictable, has been very successful. Boks tried a few 3Ns ago to play expansive backs running rugby, didn't last long cause no wins. There is something to stick to what you do best.

Of course there are good back players in SA, but maybe leave it to the current style of forward based and let the backs have the ball when the game is won.

Then again, I am no coach!!!

OzT, I have said this many times before, most of what we do is good and I wouldn't want to change it. What we need is a coach who can instill confidince in a backline with youngsters who have more speed, more willingness to attack and some variation.

Just look at the difference Frans Steyn made in comparison to Jean de Villiers.

He hit the space at speed and made yards, BUT and this is the difference. He put players into space and created gaps for them to run into. Jean de Villiers doesn't do that.

There was a report to the parlamaintary sports committee before the world cup, where PDV admitted the current boks are afraid of playing running rugby. now if a coach does not have the ability to encourage his players to play and express themselves, he has no worth in my view.

Hi,biltong agree about Franny Steyn,the moves with Steyn in the overlapping full back role/try.Versus Wales was superbly taken his injury was vast.
It is interesting that Vince Cavanagh JR.the ULTIMATE forward coach.His Otago trained Forwards were better than the All Blacks of the day.[those THAT were`nt]All Blacks.Played 10 man rugby,backed up by orthodox back play moves.{full Back in} to create the extra man.
HE insisted the Full Back came into the line OUTSIDE the winger seemed like the Boks read his stuff.
Injury and style in the knockout stages is suited to kick and rush style,plus defence.
Whoever takes over will have replace some senior players,Jake White for example outside of winning the RWC.His 3Ns record was nothing to boast about.
It is of course obvious as in 2010 when you went behind,you started throwing the ball around with some success.
Boks have the players,but don`t let them play there natural game.Lambie is near as good a kicker as Morne Steyn[if not better]
Can run a line better and with Hougaard could be a revelation,it`s a no brainer.
Playing the same gameplan at the other best two sides in the world without variation.
Australia have the back row and backs to move you around,All Blacks the complete set.
Forwards at least your equal,a great Back Row and Backs who on there day can destroy anyone.
For me RWCS are[ sadly] won by trying nothing and kicking Goals mostly,when some try scoring backlines SHOULD be seen.
It is ALLEGEDLY the SHOWPIECE of Rugby,PDV may not suit some but a least you and OZ would have continuity.
The All Blacks need to break in new Coaches for a start so are at a disadvantage.

Hi alan, look i don't think Jake white was the be all and end all of bok rugby.

What he did do though was build a team from scratch, and he also had to pick up the pieces after the disaster of 2003, so he should get some credit for not inheriting a team fo world cup winners and doing nothing with it.

Who ever may be the coach in future as long as he refuses to sacrafice one test for some idiotic dream in the future, I will be happy.

Biltong,not quite sure what you mean,All Blacks picked up from disaster of 2003.Henry`s stats for 2003-7 were 87% [as opposed to 84.5%]2007-11.
Do you mean not sacrificing 4Ns games in an attempt to win a RWC?if so I agree whole heartedly.
It gives me no pleasure to see ANY side play weakened sides and get stuffed by the All Blacks.
THE Boks are better than that I love seeing All Blacks beat Boks,it is THE biggest rivalry in Rugby.
BUT my respect for them is such,I want BOTH teams at full strength,then I can really savour victory[or accept defeat].

I agree with Biltong about JDV. He's one of the best defensive centres about but I feel he's lost his attacking edge. Seems like some of his anticipation is gone-you can see that in the reduced number of passes he intercepts. Frans Steyn showed vision and is more than capable of handling his defensive duties in the midfield. Maybe those pastries had a use-he's turning that fat into muscle!

I'd really like to see Rassie in the fold but don't know if he's ready for the head coach job. The creativity of the Bok midfield is a weakness and hopefully someone can get Morne Steyn to start running the ball again. They will have a forward platform more often than not and we know they can match the pace of NZ and SA-just look at the frenzied games in SA for reference. I'm like Alan, I'd love our greatest rival to be at full strength and playing great-it inspires your own team to be better.

Love Biltong's point about sacrificing tests too. Noone should do that ever. It's a test. You want to downgrade it, play an 'invitational' team and don't give caps. These games are the pinnacle and should be treated as such.

Disney what I don't understand is how frans Ludeke has effectively coached the running game out of Morne Steyn, I didn't follow his earlier career, but from what i am told he was an attacking running fly half.

It could of course also be that the time and space he has at club level is much more and hence his attacking from flat is easier then than at international level.

this new De Villiers bloke sounds like he will be a cracking coach, surely he can only be an improvement on the last one

biltongbek wrote:

nganboy wrote:It's only rugby Morgannwg. These still plenty of black people in SA who aren't exactly rolling in it. Agree with you though.

Not sure how to respond Nganboy.

Sorry Bil didn't mean to start anything. All I meant was don't feel sorry for the whiteman in SA because of the problems with rugby. Plenty more things to be concerned about.

Actually I believe that SA rugby is strong enough to survive this political turmoil though it might take a little while ( a couple of decades) for it to happen. Can't imagine SA falling out of the top 5 in that time anyway simply maybe not being in the top 3 all the time. After all still beat the ABs this year which most teams didn't or have ever done.

http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,16024_7299984,00.html
latest news on the planet rugby site,thought Erasmus was already running the show.

Morgannwg wrote:He is a strange bloke this PDV. More politics to ruin SA rugby. I feel sorry for the white man in South Africa.

Whether or not positive discrimination is a good thing, and whether or not DeVilliers is the right man for the job, that statement is ridiculous.

That said, I think both the sport and SA society would be better served by increasing the popularity of the game among the black community, rather than enforcing quotas that only serve to reinforce divisions in society.