You are the next Scotland coach - what do you do?

Right, let's say that that the SRU have been watching 606V2 and have decided that one of us is good enough to be Scotland coach, based on our informed opinions and obvious tactical nous.

What would you do? WHo would you pick? What tactics would you use? What would you do to regain player confidence and performances?

Now I know there's probably going to be some wild calls here, like picking the Messiah straight away irrespective of Glasgow game time, and no doubt 21st Schitzoid will call for all Edinburgh players to have their contracts terminated straight away, but here are some home truths that will hopefully put some realism behind your choices.

As coach you need to deal with the following:

We are currently ranked 12th in the world - our lowest ever

We need to build towards a world cup in 2.5 years time - how many players do you keep? How many do you bring in?

There's a 6N starting in 8 weeks or so, and immediate results will be needed. Do you keep the same core of players or go for broke and bring in new guys?

Is Laidlaw a 9 or a 10?

Do you like prawn sandwiches or egg and cress when you are meeting with the blaziraty?


So over to you 606V2 - if you were Scotland coach, what would you do?

Scream and spontaneously combust.

For me the key thing is the mental side of it. The players need to be playing with confidence and the freedom that the confidence brings.

Similar core of players to that used recently

Simple game plan based around the strengths of the players not attempting to make the players fit the gameplan you want to play.

Sports psychologists involved.

quit

Tj - what game plan would that be? What are the players' strengths? Apart from losing..

Dunno if I anm very good at explaining this

Something like how last years Edinburgh team played. So a game based around speed and offloads having multiple options at every breakdown.

Blair and Laidlaw would interchange to vary the point of attack, ball would be cleared from rucks very quickly, Visser would come off his wing looking for work, at every breakdown there would be 2 or 3 runners looking for the ball - the quick pop pass inside, the miss to the centres. the dink over the top - unpredictable to the opposition what could be done.

The unpredictability, speed and options at every breakdown are what won Edinburgh the games last year
It takes confidence to do this tho.

Great question/good thread, RDW, requiring more thought than I have time to give it right now - so I'm gonna come back to you on this one (altho clearly, step 1 is to parachute the Messiah immediately into the fray )

Right time to throw in my opinions:

What would you do?

Get into my office, have a wee panic, a wee cry, break something, then sit down and get to work!

Who would you pick?

The most important thing IMO. You've got to pick on form, but likewise I wouldn't throw loads of young pups into getting their first cap away to England. The most important thing for me is picking the best players, in their best positions. Also, picking your captain in his best position!

So my team for the 6N (have chosen 2 players for some positions as it would come down to form):

1 Grant
2 Ford
3 Murray
4 Gray
5 Hamilton (last chance saloon - needs to stop the stupid penalties)
6 Brown (c)
7 Rennie/Fusaro (I'm sorry Barclay but you did absolutely nothing in the AIs)
8 Denton (need to build the back around his carrying IMO)
9 Cusiter
10 Ladilaw/Weir (I think we should keep Laidlaw at 10)
11 Vissser
12 Scott
13 De Luca/Dunbar/Bennet (IF he proves himself for the weedge
14 Maitland
15 Hogg/Tonks (Hogg wasn't great in the AIs and should lose his place if Tonks carries on his form)

Welsh/Low, McArthur, Cross, Kellock (one of the better players in the AIs), Harley/Strokosh/Barclay/Wilson, Blair, Weir/Laidlaw, AN other back 3 player on form!

What tactics would you use?

Good question. The main thing for me is to try to make the team far more dynamic. I can't believe how slow, lumbering and lethargic we were in all 3 tests. We need to get our zip back - we need to be far more dynamic. This will come from our big ball carriers carrying into spaces, not people. Get Denton, Gray, Ford etc charging into spaces and getting over the gainline, look to get quick ball and take it from there.

Need to vary the play too - little chips over the top but with the surrounding players knowing it is happening!

Defence - need to have better line speed. Don't step off the players giving them time - get in their faces and smash them.

Get Visser and Maitland in space - let them have a go with their outside man, let them have a run. Even if they don't get anywhere - we will eventually - make sure there are players supporting to ensure we keep the ball.

What would you do to regain player confidence and performances?

Need to get back to basics here - pride and passion. Bring in McGeechan, Telfer, Sole, JJ, Calder, Hasting, Armstrong and get some passion going - I want to see players in tears here!!!



So to summaries; need to be much more dynamic, pick form players in their preferred positions, and get some passion back!

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Great question/good thread, RDW, requiring more thought than I have time to give it right now - so I'm gonna come back to you on this one (altho clearly, step 1 is to parachute the Messiah immediately into the fray )

I all honesty

requiring more thought players than I have time to give it right now

I'd buy one of those H.G.Wells time machines and unpick the fragment of time when the Borders was abandoned in favour of Glasgow. Terrible decision.

A peripatetic/nomadic Borders side could have been made a no less profitable side but would have kept the heart pumping.

Step 1

Sack Johnson

Step 2

Appoint RDW and ASBO as assistant coaches so there is balance of East and West coast input

Step 3

Kick all the "elite" players up the erse and tell them to get their fingers out!

Step 4

Bring in new talent (but slowly) and have them playing with the experienced guys.

Step 5

Have a game plan that suits the modern game. The reason Scotland were murdered in each game was due to us being totally bossed at the breakdown. Our forwards were soft and never worked as a unit. Hit rucks hard and fast or don't hit them at all. If the ball is yours and it is safe, don't wander into the ruck. If it is not safe, smash the oppoents out the way. If your opponents take ball in and they are going to win it, stand off and get ready for the next attack. Don't wander into the ruck to get your face on TV. If the ball is winable, hit the ruck hard and fast.

If you are going to play an offloading game, you need to have support runners on each shoulder. No point in making a break to have no support and get isolated.

If you are playing a blitz defense, make the line work together. Come up flat and straight. none of this dog leg nonsense. You cannot have 4 players doing a blitz and one doing a drift. Everyone needs to do the same thing.

If you are going to have your 10 chipping over, your wings need to know its an option and be ready for it.

All the players would need taken away and time spent on getting it into thier heads how we need to play and what tactics we will be using.

ttattie,
[quote]If you are going to play an offloading game, you need to have support runners on each shoulder. No point in making a break to have no support and get isolated.

If you are playing a blitz defense, make the line work together. Come up flat and straight. none of this dog leg nonsense. You cannot have 4 players doing a blitz and one doing a drift. Everyone needs to do the same thing.

If you are going to have your 10 chipping over, your wings need to know its an option and be ready for it.

All the players would need taken away and time spent on getting it into thier heads how we need to play and what tactics we will be using.


tigertattie,

If you are going to play an offloading game, you need to have support runners on each shoulder. No point in making a break to have no support and get isolated.

If you are playing a blitz defense, make the line work together. Come up flat and straight. none of this dog leg nonsense. You cannot have 4 players doing a blitz and one doing a drift. Everyone needs to do the same thing.

If you are going to have your 10 chipping over, your wings need to know its an option and be ready for it.

All the players would need taken away and time spent on getting it into thier heads how we need to play and what tactics we will be using.

You are suggesting that AR (who I was totally thankful when dumped from England) and his coaching team seriously told the Scottish team to play different game plans?

Or were the players not up to sticking to a prescribed one?

I believe Robinson had a way he wanted the game played and tried to make the players play to that - and selected for that ( hence Parks at 10 and Lamont at centre) I would rather ( given the small pool of class players) the coach picked the best players and then devised a game plan to suit.

So the natural game of players like laidlaw and Visser and the way they played for Edinburgh was not how Robinson wanted themto play for Scotland - leading to the confusion, hesitation, lack of unity / teamwork etc

Fair bit of reading involved so bear with me!

For me I would try and recreate Edinburgh's attacking guile and flair with Glasgow's steely defence and the ability to close out tight games.

Start by building a pack that can dominate the set piece.

The Bokke, NZ & France all have very powerful set pieces and through this they dictate the game. The French scrum pretty much defeated Australia on it's own and the Bokke Lineout has successfuly laid the platform to defeat Ireland, Scotland and England.

1st things 1st though we need to get some consistency. Let the guys gel. Pick the best guys in each position and give them time to adjust to their team mates.

so my XV and reasons for picking them :

1. Ryan Grant - By far Scotland's best find in the Autumn series. The Loosehead prop jersey is now his with absolutley noone else even close. Solid in the Scrum and a menace in the loose with the ball in hand. I also fel I do have to point out that despite my concerns Kyle Traynor was one of the few who enhanced his reputation in the debacle on sunday.

2. Ross Ford - Anyone see the Edinburgh vs. Osprey's game? The lineout was a potent weapon for Edinburgh. Hinting that perhaps Hamilton can't really run the Scottish Lineout well at all. It's easy to blame the hooker for a line out going pear shaped but the Edinburgh line out on Friday was very good. Here's hoping he isn't too badly injured. Although Pat MacArthur IMO will be a very good alternative option to Ford. He is much a player in with the same characteristics as Ford. Quick and Mobile in the loose and a decent carrier. Wouldn't lose much sleep if he were to play in the 6N instead of Ford.

3. Reverand Murray - A monster in the Scrum and showed up well in the lose against the boks and Tonga. Cross I feel also played well when he fronted up against NZ, scored a try and made good cameo's from the bench against SA & Tonga. Not really a problem position for me

4. Gray - Still Scotland's best player.

5. Gilchsirst - Now the conundrum starts. Hamilton IMO did not have a good Autumn for Scotland. Can't remember him doing much else apart from giving away very silly penalties and botching the lineout. Ruck Inspector Kellock did what he did best. So who else could play lock? Gilchsrist has impressed for Edinburgh and IMO would make a very good account of himself, could he and Gray form a lock partnership for the next 10 years? I would probably give him the nod to start against England in the 6N if he continues his form for Edinburgh. Give the new boiler room a chance to bed in.

6. Kelly Brown - He is not an openside. He is a blind side and a far better option than Strokosch. Is he captain material? I personally don't think so. He will have learned a lot from his refusal to take the points on offer against Tonga. Richie McCaw didn't even have to think about his decisions when they had Wales on the rack on Saturday. If the penalty was kickable he pointed to the posts every time. So an alternative captain is required. We also have players like Stroks and Harley able to fill his shoes in the long term.

7. Rennie / Fusaro - Barclay is a shadow of the man he was a few seasons ago. He needs a new challenge and IMO would benefit from a move either down south or perhaps to Ireland to play with either Leinster, Munster or Ulster. Rennie must be gutted he got injured so early in the Autumn tests but hopefully will have recovered to play in the 6N. If not I would like to see Fusaro get chance at 7.

8. Denton - Again one of the few to emerge with his reputation almost intact after this Autumn farce. Beattie seems to be enjoying his rugby again in France so I would keep a close eye on him and McInally also had a few good cameos in the Autumn so we have options there. As for Strauss? Can he ever play for Scotland? If so I would be looking to bring him on board when we can.

9. Laidlaw (C) - In France the Scrum half Morgan Parra is refered to as le petit général. My 1st order as Scotland coach would be to get Laidlaw back in the 9 jersey ASAP. Laidlaw I think could be the perfect Scottish Captain from the 9 berth where he can use his keen rugby brain and small stature to dictate everything about the game. I would also give him the captaincy and kicking duties. We also have able deputies in the form of Pyrgos, Cusiter and Blair.

10. Scott - 2nd order as Scotland coach, get Matt Scott Playing fly half. A similar build to Sexton, Scott will have no trouble defending his channel and could distribute well to the men outside him. With Jackson and Weir forming back up to begin with I would also try to get Hunter & Leonard involved in the Edinburgh setup either from the bench or on a rotation policy.

11. Visser - 3rd order, get Visser tackling practise. If he doesn't want to do the smashing style of tackling fair enough.... learn from Chris Patterson about positional awareness and try to emulate Mossy's bootstap tackling style that denied Foden and McLean in the 6N 2010. Seymour and Jones would be the guys waiting in the wings for this position.

12. Horne / Dunbar - Now the controversy begins. Trying to emulate the stuborn Glasgow defence with Edinburgh's flair for Scoring tackles. The partnership of Horne/Dunbar or Dunbar/Horne seems to work really well for Glasgow. Although I myself have often said Glasgow lack the Flair of Edinburgh ( I have even said so in this comment/article) I'm not sure I beleive it myself! DTH & Hogg all seem very capable of running in tries. I must profess however I'm not entirely convinced of what position best suits Dunbar and Horne. Even in the Glasgow games I have watched they do seem to change around a bit in defence and attack. For me that's a good thing and I would encourage them to try and do the same for Scotland.

13 Dunbar/ Horne - *See Above* Also worth noting we can add Fife, Ansbro and De Luca into the mix and have them as options in addition. However I would like to see Dunbar and Horne get a chance in the midfield with the intention of perhaps giving Hogg more game time at 13 to perhaps leave the door open for Tonks at full back. Also we have the Messiah to consider. He'll need to prove himself for Glasgow before I would consider throwing him in against Barret or Tuilagi Twickers in Feb.


14. Maitland - Unlike Bennet I have seen what this guy can do. I have seen him shred defences for fun in the SH, and I like the fact he is a differant sort of winger to Visser. We also have the likes of S. Lamont and his bro Mr Glass to fill this void. I wouldn't shed a tear if we never saw Max Evans play for Scotland again, he did very little against Tonga and I can't remember the last time I saw him play well for Scotland.

15. Hogg / Tonks - Call it inexperience but Hogg seemed to take too much on against Tonga. He just charged headlong into heavy traffic, huffed, puffed and didn't get very far. He is a good player but he didn't have a good Autumn. Tonks can consider himself very unlucky not to get a shot in one of the games and I hope he'll do enough to be in consideration for the 6N. Tonks has a far better kicking game and is not shy from running into contact either. Not much between these 2 IMO and I think the new Scotland boss will watch these 2 in the 1872 clash with a lot of interest.

So I hope that kind of gives you a flavour for my test XXIII.

As for the tactics, I hope I have picked a team that can dominate the set piece and lay a platform for what could be a lethal set of backs, that are big enough and solid enough to not let as many tries slip through.

In open play I would Ideally like to see the big men, Ford, Gray, Murray, Denton, Gilchrist build the momentum and recycle the ball well and when the time is right unleash our backline.

Laidlaw is key to this, not just as Scrum Half but as captain. He should be screaming at his pack, much like Parra, barking orders all the while using his fantastic vision and excellent rugby brain to scan the oppositon defence for weaknesses and then boom , out the line it goes to Scott who is a big enough lad to take the ball into contact, but had deft enough hands to export the ball wider and bring in our centres or our lethal back 3 strike runners.

Furthermore Laidlaw is smart enough to know when to kick for goal and when to go for the corner. Kelly Brown is one of my favourite players but his decision making against both SA & Tonga IMO have shown me he is not captain material. However I would have no problem making him pack leader.

Scott at 10 IMO is also an astute move he started off as a 10 but like Carter is strong enough to pose a threat to defences and is more than capable of making the half breaks that Carter is renowned for to get in behind the opposition defence.

With players like Rennie, Visser and Maitland all on the pitch I would like to thik we'll have a better support style of play and all of this posession and territory we have will start to be converted into tries.

So to Summarise, Earn the right to go wide. We have a formidable pack, lets use it to play rugby in the right areas and bludgeon defences a bit before bringing in Maitland, Visser and Hogg to make the lethal cuts for the tries.

But build it all on our set piece. We used to have a fearsome scrum and an imperious lineout, it would be nice to have it again.

I'll have a bash if you don't mind a 1 eyed welsh man!!

First thing I'd do is look at the junior system, recognise that there is no place on earth like Scotland and tap into the heritage that is so famous, create a culture of rugby within the country, and employ a junior system that is actually up to date with todays theories instead of piggy back the UKCC's version.

Then I'd have a meeting with whoever is in charge with the club game, convince them to somehow create at least a 3rd maybe even a 4th profesional club in scotland (even if only developmental to start)

Then I'd consider the squad for the 6N, and lets be honest the squad virtually picks itself with a few key and a few fringe decisions. I'd spare no expense for a forwards, defence and backs coach, and would implimant a brutal game plan involving a Scottish aggression, not classy, not too clever and very SA esque.

Regarding building for 2015, first and foremost you need some good feeling surrounding the team, 2013 wouldn't be prioritised for building for 2015, attack the first game against England, forget about the rest of the tourny (or at least make the team forget about it) I'd make each player paste a pic of their English counterpart on their bedroom wall, the next 10 weeks is about getting one up on him. Training camps before and after xmas, even if only a meeting for a few hours.

Then I'd tell the clubs/regions all the players play for to play the leather out of their boots, no rests, just hammer them for every game, theres plenty of time to recover in the weeks before game 1, but theres not game time to be had (look at the mistakes of Warburton and Roberts)

That would be my start, personell are details not needed until after the lions tour (ready for 2015) so it's a case of best players playing get selected 2 weeks before! Regarding the meetings a larger squad of about 50 could attend.

Some good posts guys!

And yes - is good to have opinions from people from other nations.

I've never seen Scott at 10. is he the answer?

Jackson and Weir imo are not and will never be international class 10's.

Also what of Heathcote? He got thrown to the lions against Tonga. Has he burned his bridges by playing for Scotland only for Robbo to stand down or is he still a possibility? heard good reports of him from Bath folks.

I think our forwards are lacking leadership (even though brown is captain) We need a menace like hines to order them about. Oh how I miss big Jason White.

The same thing can be said about the Backs. Who is in charge there?

We need to get the guys playing as a team again. Currently it is a very individual way of playing!

I don't think Heathcote is a bad player, but he got a really poopy deal from Robinson. He'll be having nightmares about that Knock on for months.

Not his fault and I would like to see him involved with Scotland. I feel bringing Heathcote on against Tonga was a sackable offence from the get go.

It was a desperate move by a desperate man.

Sorry guys and gals, another essay here!

The key thing for me is to play simple, effective, heads up rugby. That doesn’t mean we get into the bosh-bosh-bosh groove that SA have worn themselves into. Against Tonga we were far too forwards-focused – our back three didn’t see much of the ball, apart from when they ran back kicks, and when we did fling it wide the Tongan defence was set well and our guys couldn’t find much space. We seemed really robotic, as if we were playing to a pre-set routine all the time.

What we need is aggression in the contact area, both in defence and with ball in hand, and some intelligence at half back and the midfield axis. That doesn’t require a new roster of players, but it does mean that those players should be playing where they are most comfortable and allowed the space to make their own on-field decisions.

My game plan would be reasonably straightforward. We have a very strong pack, and we should make our set-piece play as solid as possible. Our scrum could be a real weapon, and our lineout should be Fort Knox-like in its security. We also have a very mobile pack – guys like Grant, Ford, Gray, Denton, Brown can run all day and need to be told to hit space or weak shoulders, not just bulldoze into contact all the time. We also have a back-three to die for. We need to gain territory, our forwards need to smash some holes, suck in defenders and set the ball up so our half backs can release guys like Maitland, Visser and Hogg.

Easier said than done, you might say. A lot of people talk about combining the cussed, teak-tough attitude of Glasgow with the varied attacking play that Edinburgh demonstrated last season. This makes perfect sense to me. Every time a player attacks the gainline he should be looking for space and should have options all around him – pop up passes to support runners, forwards waiting to smash the ruck and secure possession. Every time our scrum half or first receiver gets the ball, they should also have an array of options – players looking to crash it up, wingers coming from the blindside to take short balls, players ready for dinks over the top or cross-field kicks. It amazes me that we don’t overload opposition defenders, like Ireland did for Gilroy’s try. Sexton takes it to the gainline, holds his man and pops it to Gilroy sweeping in from behind him who has a lovely big gap to run into. At their best last season, Edinburgh attacked in waves, with players ready to offer these options, link play and finish a score. It was fast, varied and utterly relentless. Nothing particularly fancy or special, but very effective. We need that style of play with ball in hand, along with a rock solid scrum and lineout.

In defence, we need to make sure that every man jack in a Scotland shirt is ready to (legally) kick seven shades of sh!t out of the opposition until we get the ball back. Aggressive defence creates pressure, mistakes, turnovers and penalties. Not one step back, just like we showed vs Australia in 2009.

If I was coach I’d hire a talented, Kiwi backs coach to get this style of offensive play in gear, and I’d get Gary Mercer back in as defence coach.

As for the team (depending on form/fitness, obviously), here goes. Two players have been selected if I can’t pick between them.

Grant/Welsh
Ford/MacArthur
Murray
Gray
Gilchrist – tough, mobile and a good lineout operator
Brown
Rennie
Denton
Laidlaw – needs to be back at 9. Such an incisive, intelligent player, but not a 10.
Weir – I’d like to see Matt Scott play at 10 for Edinburgh, but unless he’s first choice there he ain’t playing there for Scotland. Weir has a lot to offer, he’s not just a mini-DP.
Visser
Scott
Dunbar
Maitland
Hogg

Subs – Grant/Welsh, Ford/MacArthur, Low, Kellock, Harley/Fusaro, Cusiter, Heathcote, Bennett (provided he gets game time for the Weedge)

Jackson and Weir imo are not and will never be international class 10's.

Agree with you re Jackson, but what a ridiculous statement to make about Weir. He’s barely in his 20s, is absolutely rock-solid from the tee, has a huge boot with ball in hand, tackles well for his size and can distribute effectively. Watch his performance for Scotland A vs the Saxons on Youtube – he was superb that night in every aspect. Running, passing, kicking. At Glasgow Lineen had him playing a very conservative style, but one game under Bradley for Scotland A, with a decent 12 (Scott) outside him and he offered the complete fly-half game.

As Scotland open their 6Ns campaign against England, should I be appointed the new Scotland coach I would shake things up a bit.

As it is 20 years since Scotland last won at twickenham, the current generation obviousley have issues - so a mass recall for that 1983 team is obviously what is needed.

15 FB Peter Dods
14 W Jim Pollock
13 C Jim Renwick
12 C Keith Robertson
11 W Roger Baird
10 FH John Rutherford
9 SH Roy Laidlaw
1 P Jim Aitkin (c)
2 H Colin Deans
3 P Iain Milne
4 L Tom Smith
5 L Iain Paxton
6 F Jim Calder
7 F David Leslie
8 N8 John Beattie

Of course following a 60-0 win for England (17 penalties, 3DGs) I would of course be sacked.


PS - some cracking players in that Scotland team.

It's depressing but 1983 was 30 years ago!

My brother raised a good point after the Tonga game, which has been synonymous with how Scotland have played under Robinson - they look like they are playing like they do in unopposed run throughs.

They do a fancy lineout, hit it up in the middle, recycle it and give it to someone else, then put it through the hands and score in the corner - or at least that's what they do in unopposed!

What actually happens is the lineout move sort of works, the ball is passed into the middle but the player has to check his run because the pass was behind him. The ruck is then slow and we have to commit too many players to win the ball. The ball is then fired out and someone throws a miss pass to the winger who has to cut back in because he's not got any space. There is another dogfight at the rucks and the ball is recycled again but because it is crap ball the forwards do a few pick and go's or a maul, and so on.......That's what actually happens!

This team just couldn't cope when the planned attack - which they worked on all week at training - doesn't come off.

Pat_Mustard wrote:It's depressing but 1983 was 30 years ago!

Oh dear lord, so it is. Damn my senility.

I'd agree with the points made about building on a solid set piece and intense quick forwards carrying and recycling game before going to the backs, and that there needs to be more intelligence in attack. We need the players to be able to identify where the opposition are weak, in the moment not just based on previous video analysis. And to be able to make the split second decision on how to exploit the weaknesses.

The frustrating thing is we have seen these players play very well in some games, so we know they are capable of it, but they don't do it consistently and never all at the same time. So we need a coach who has a track record of taking an underperforming side and getting the best out of them consistently. That means not necessarily a big-name, world cup winning coach, as most of these took on sides which were already very good or had lots of world class players. I think we'd be better with someone who has taken a lower ranked side and improved them.

We need to get the players out of the apparent mindset of raising their game for the big sides like NZ, SA or England. That is not good enough, if they can raise their game for those matches then that means they aren't putting in 100% in the others, even if it's a subconscious thing. How can we go from such promising performances against SA, dominating posession and territory, albeit not doing enough with it against a very good defence, to such a poor performance a week later, with respect to Tonga who played well but they are mostly from lower leagues and I don't think many would argue not at the same level as SA. What I remember hearing someone from the All Blacks say recently was interesting. Along the lines that they don't raise their game for some oppositions or get complacent about others, the opposition doesn't come into it at all. It's just that every time they pull on the black jersey it means so much they feel an obligation to play with the maximum intensity and accuracy and be the very best every single time. The fans would not accept anything else.

OK here it is, it was Wayne Smith - "Very seldom will the All Blacks go into a game thinking ‘we’ll just roll up and win this game’, no matter what happened in the past. They are not just playing to win. They are genuinely not looking at Scotland, but focusing on a standard that has been set, a standard they want to be part of establishing."

That's the kind of attitude we need. I wouldn't demand that Scotland sides play as well as the All Blacks because that is just not realistic. But if they've been selected for Scotland it's an honour that means they are the best in the country and they must play to their maximum ability and "raise their game" every single time whatever the opposition.

Anyway those are my thoughts at the moment, obviously there's the much bigger picture about general sports participation in Scotland, the public school image of rugby, the way we bring up kids in all sports (I believe one reason we are unsuccessful in both football and rugby is the praise given to glorious defeats, the idolising of limited players who get through on toughness alone and the attitude that "nobody likes a show off" that discourages kids from learning tricks or trying new things that might not come off, and then we wonder why we don't produce anyone with flair or creativity...), anyway there's so much that we could go into but I will leave it there for now!

6N side:

pick on form! We have options in every position now, let's wait and see how they all do for their clubs between now and February, very few players are guaranteed game time even at their clubs which is great and should push them to improve. If I was to predict what the side vs England will look like I would say

Grant (has performed brilliantly but even his position isn't guaranteed at Glasgow where competition is intense and Welsh could still come into the picture for Scotland)

Ford (but could be pushed close by McArthur)

Murray (again Cross is not far off)

Gray

Kellock (I don't think they will start Gilchrist against England but hopefully off the bench.)

Brown (pushed hard by Harley)

Rennie (pushed hard by Fusaro)

Denton

Laidlaw/Cusiter

Weir (now he's back fit I see him taking the Glasgow 10 shirt back, if he gets a run of games with the quality backs they now have I can see him taking the Scotland shirt too)

Visser (attacking qualities more than make up for defensive weaknesses)

Dunbar (please Townsend play him at 12 for a few games)

Hogg (at least until Ansbro returns or Bennett proves himself)

Maitland (assuming he plays as well as we expect for Glasgow)

Tonks


OK i've probably gone for one or two selections that are unlikely but it's little better than a guess until we see who the new coach is and the players' form over the coming months

RDW_Scotland wrote:My brother raised a good point after the Tonga game, which has been synonymous with how Scotland have played under Robinson - they look like they are playing like they do in unopposed run throughs.

They do a fancy lineout, hit it up in the middle, recycle it and give it to someone else, then put it through the hands and score in the corner - or at least that's what they do in unopposed!

What actually happens is the lineout move sort of works, the ball is passed into the middle but the player has to check his run because the pass was behind him. The ruck is then slow and we have to commit too many players to win the ball. The ball is then fired out and someone throws a miss pass to the winger who has to cut back in because he's not got any space. There is another dogfight at the rucks and the ball is recycled again but because it is crap ball the forwards do a few pick and go's or a maul, and so on.......That's what actually happens!

This team just couldn't cope when the planned attack - which they worked on all week at training - doesn't come off.

I completely agree with this, a very familiar pattern. The breaks we did make, Sean Lamont springs to mind, more often happened when things broke down and he ended up having to play off the cuff. Obviously the first thing to fix is the passing, so that the set moves happen as they're supposed to, without the fly half and centres having to pluck the ball out of thin air or off their boot straps. Passing has long been an issue in Scottish rugby, and things haven't improved much. The second thing to do is encourage players to be more open minded during the game. That's not to say completely abandon the script, but rather be more thoughtful about the game and how it's going generally. We need players to have that freedom to change things in real time, and to coin that oft used phrase, play heads up rugby. Everytime a new player is introduced, Hogg being the classic example, they seem to start fresh and have a willingness to try new things, and attack from different positions. The more exposure to the finest coaches the SRU can find, the less spontaneous they become, until they just play by numbers and hoof the ball in the air when in doubt.

We need the new coach to be a specialist backs coach, or at least be accompanied by a specialist backs coach. We need the loudest voice on the training field to be the voice looking to score tries, not the voice looking to shut them out. We need players to taught about rugby, not just trained like robots. Hopefully we'll get some good input into the back play from Maitland, who must know a thing or two about good backs coaching from his time in NZ.

I'd also lobby the government to make it a capital offence to pick players out of position at international level, or to pick kids to play for Scotland before they've played professional rugby. I'm not talking about the chair either. I'm talking about old school market square public execution.

For me Scotland's development starts with Laidlaw switching to 9 and finding a pure 10. If it's Weir I'm happy to do it, but I would personally like to see Scott get a chance at 10.

Edinburgh's season is almost over. I for one would be happy to try Scott at 10 with Laidlaw at 9.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:For me Scotland's development starts with Laidlaw switching to 9 and finding a pure 10. If it's Weir I'm happy to do it, but I would personally like to see Scott get a chance at 10.

Edinburgh's season is almost over. I for one would be happy to try Scott at 10 with Laidlaw at 9.

If I were Bradley, it's what I'd do. However, as Scotland coach I'd be very keen for Scott to continue his development at 12, as he's done well there so far. Weir is a very able 10, I'd want to see him develop in that role too. In fact, an halfback/midfield axis of Laidlaw, Weir, Scott and one of Ansbro/Dunbar/Hogg/Cairns has a very nice ring to it. It would also be good to see Dougie Fife get more time at 13 for Edinburgh, he was excellent vs Ospreys.

Not sure I see Scott as a 10. He's a pretty big lad, and so far I've not been wowed with his distribution skills or his kicking. Looks more a 12 for me.

As I said on the Edinburgh vs Ospreys post, I thought Hunter did well against the Ospreys, and I was impressed with him in the pre-season games I saw. Huge boot on him, decent goal kicker and a tidy distributor. Obviously we need to see him play consecutive games, something unlikely to happen under Bradley I suspect, but I would like to see more of him to make up my mind. I'm not suggesting he play for Scotland yet of course, that would be close to "Bennettian Blindness", but off the back of that Ospreys performance he deserves another game or two to prove himself.

funnyExiledScot wrote:Not sure I see Scott as a 10. He's a pretty big lad, and so far I've not been wowed with his distribution skills or his kicking. Looks more a 12 for me.

As I said on the Edinburgh vs Ospreys post, I thought Hunter did well against the Ospreys, and I was impressed with him in the pre-season games I saw. Huge boot on him, decent goal kicker and a tidy distributor. Obviously we need to see him play consecutive games, something unlikely to happen under Bradley I suspect, but I would like to see more of him to make up my mind. I'm not suggesting he play for Scotland yet of course, that would be close to "Bennettian Blindness", but off the back of that Ospreys performance he deserves another game or two to prove himself.

Absolutely agree on your point re Hunter. He deserves another start.

As for Scott, don't forget that the Scottish management have been using him as a crash ball option more often than not, which isn't his style of game at all. Utter madness from AR and Johnson there.

funnyExiledScot wrote:Not sure I see Scott as a 10. He's a pretty big lad, and so far I've not been wowed with his distribution skills or his kicking. Looks more a 12 for me.

As I said on the Edinburgh vs Ospreys post, I thought Hunter did well against the Ospreys, and I was impressed with him in the pre-season games I saw. Huge boot on him, decent goal kicker and a tidy distributor. Obviously we need to see him play consecutive games, something unlikely to happen under Bradley I suspect, but I would like to see more of him to make up my mind. I'm not suggesting he play for Scotland yet of course, that would be close to "Bennettian Blindness", but off the back of that Ospreys performance he deserves another game or two to prove himself.

Absolutely agree on your point re Hunter. He deserves another start.

As for Scott, don't forget that the Scottish management have been using him as a crash ball option more often than not, which isn't his style of game at all. Utter madness from AR and Johnson there.

Yeah, he kind of Demonstrated that mindset by coliding violently with a prop in the Tonga game.

He used to be a player to run at Gaps, not players.

It's exactly that kind of coaching that has made Scott and Hogg regress under Robinson.

I also like FES' point of playing players in their positions. I'm only talking about moving Scott to 10 if he wants.

It sounds simplistic but If I were to come in I would ask all the players to write down on a piece of paper the position THEY WANT TO PLAY.

Stupid suggestions like Cross or Chunk saying they want to play full back will be discarded.

Ask players where they want to play and pick the best ones in their positions. I'm not entirely convinced Laidlaw would want to be a 10, nor Ansbro a winger or Hines a Flanker and poor Parks just wanted to retire after the RWC!

It seems to me that perhaps the previous coaching setup has been a bit draconian.

I take your point on Scott, he has been used primarily as a crash ball player (basically they haven't changed the coaching manual since Morrison stepped down) which is stupid. Hopefully we'll get a new backs coach with a brain, and we can see Scott more in the role of second receiver. Still think he's more a 12 though, as he does have the bulk to cope with the heavier traffic coming through at 12.

There's two parts to this excellent question.

A. Whom do you choose for the team?

B. What specifically should be the focus of training.

A. Team

A couple of things are particularly clear to me having watched the Weedge and the Diddies for a number of weeks and having melted my eyeballs watching the wet fart that was our autumn campaign.

We need to start with the end result in mind. This means:

* start choosing the team that we want to be there in 2 years time, regardless of whether they are the best option right now. Don't get me wrong - I'm not asking anyone to choose a team of 18 year olds but many of the incumbents will never play better than the level that they are now at and that means that by nature their continuing selection is preventing the enhancement of the team;

* take the pressure off for the 6N by saying both publicly and privately to the players that we expect nothing other than good performances from them;

* refuse to accept mediocrity any more. If a current player does not have the skillset to be genuinely international class but is the best of a bad bunch and at the same time there is a younger player who is not currently is able but has the potential to be developed to a higher standard, then we have to choose the youngster and start to work with it. Unfortunately, there are a lot of players sniffing around the first XXIII that simply don't deserve to be there.

1. Front row - picks itself - Grant, Ford and Murray is the front row to start with and they should be able to hold their own against anyone in the tight. Needs nothing other than Ford to realise he is letting the team down with his poor work rate and inaccurate throwing. We need a young tighthead to start coming through - I still have not lost hope of persuading Mr Michael Cusack that playing for Scotland is almost as good as being a bluddy Yorkshireman, tha' knows.

2. Second row - Gray will get his swing back and Gilchrist should start partnering him for the reasons mentioned above. Hamilton is the bench option. I don't care if Kellock calls the lineouts - Gray should be doing this anyway and in an age of Launchbury, Whitelock and Esteban, Kellock simply does not offer enough.

3. Back row - Brown at blind, Rennie and loose and Denton at 8 is genuinely a world class combination in waiting. Any new coach would never, EVER PLAY LOOSE FORWARDS OUT OF POSITION. It is moronic and it never, ever works well - it only provides some time for dodging bullets. If Rennie is injured, Fusaro. If Brown is injured, Harley. If Denton is injured, McInally. That's it. No, shut up. That's it. It's only complicated if you want to complicate it.

4. Scrum half - Laidlaw. it is correct that this is the player that we have to build the team around but 9 is the position which will still play to his strengths but minimise the gaping weakness his presence at 10 leaves in his defensive channel. It's been a great experiment at 10, but we need to start looking for a real fly half now and there is talent to waste in not doing so. He's said that his favourite spot is 9 - let's leave him to it.

5. Fly half - Scott/Heathcote/Weir - all should be tried and the best after one international season picked and picked again. I'm sorry, but we need to leave Jackson with a big sticker on his head saying "not as good as we wanted him to be".

6. Centres - we need to see how the combinations of Dunbar/Scott at 12 and Ansbro/Hogg/Messiah work in practice. We need to limit the combinations we're working with - 2/3 per position is plenty, more too many. I am fed to the teeth of having centres who are deficient in at least one major skillset. Any 12 or 13 should be able to catch, look up, take contact, step, maintain support lines and have some pace. We should not consider anyone who cannot do all of these.

7. Wings - straightforward - Visser and Maitland are the future, with Seymour currently snapping at heels. Sorry, but I would happy never to see Jones or Schlongster in the jersey again. Neither is the future. It is not, cannot and should not be acceptable that a backline has not scored a try in 18 out of 34 matches with a new attack coach.

8. Full back - Hogg still first choice although he'd been given a lot to think about this season - the lessons are there if he wants to learn them. Thank goodness for Tonks - genuine competition. We have to see him in at least one 6N game in 2013.

B. Training focus

1. We have to get an attack coach that can analyse individual players and give them confidence to run straight and hard INTO SPACE. It boggles my mind that we can make a hundred offloads in a game and still not score. The only possible explanation can be drift or fully lateral running. You teach schoolboys not to do that. Watch the All Blacks - it's the simplest thing in the world. Run into space and not the man, beat your man, force them out of position or take contact and offload to another straight runner.

2. Forget about fancy loop patterns and chalk boards and skedoodles drawing circles on guy's asses. Our backs need to get out of the gym and spend more time on a pitch with the ball in hand learning to (a) calm down, (b) realise that going to ground and recycling keeps possession and provides further opportunities and (c) survey the field and learn to rely on their judgement as to the percentages of success of the various options.

3. Stop valueless kicking. A kick out of hand, unless it's a garryowen, should find touch the vast majority of the time. You kick for better field position, you don't do it just to relieve yourself of the pressure and inconvenience of having to attack with the bloody ball.

4. We need for the players to realise that they can change their style of play and their results - two things are critical:

(a) we need a good set of new coaches. I am so worried that if we settle for idiots like Johnson the players will feel that this is all they are worth. How brave the SRU are with this and how much they are willing to commit financially to get their men will be correctly construed as a statement about the Scottish game. The players need coaches they can aspire to satisfying.

(b) we need a good sports psychologist, either full time or consultancy. I don't care how much Bob Rotella costs. Get him in here and tell the players that the old slate has been wiped clean and what they create now is up to them. There's been so much trotting out of this old scrote like puppets by the players after matches that I cannot believe for one second it's what they actually think.

Seems like I've banged on for quite a while.

It's just that I care desperately about this and I think that we are one good coaching set up away from being an exponentially improved side.

A superb post, George. You had me hanging on, and agreeing with, every word.

Great post george.

I think everyone has made good contributions in this thread. Perhaps we should offer our CV's as a coaching consortium.

I also feel Tom Brown has potential to be in the mix for Scotland too.

Firstly I would sit down with the team and discuss how we want to move forward and get them on board with the game plan and relax into the situation

For the first 6 nations I would let them know that there is no pressure on winning and we want them to go out and play how we want to play. Try a few things and bring in new players. I would state up front to the press and public that this is about growing to the world cup and not winning the 6 nations - take the pressure off to not lose and let them start enjoying the game again


I would then sit down with both the Edinburgh and Glasgow set ups to discuss how we want to get got to a winnign nation. Not to dictate their plans, but to ensure that we all are aiming the same way

I would sort out the key pods around thr park and get them to develop the skills amoungst their pods, before bringing them together to co-ordinate how these pods work together

I would work on hand skills and passing so that everyone of our players feels that the ball is like a second teat they want to hold onto - props and backs must be able to pass and catch like they were born to it.

Game plan would not be too out muscle the opposition, as some have stated about, as that has failed for the last 10 years and we end up in arm wrestles with others.

I would go for the quick, quick ball - fast pick uo, fast driving, fast passing, gain line ball, support runners, mini breaks, quick clear out etc. With everyplayer knowing that this is how we will play, day in day out, they will all know the goal and be able to learn the skills to get there - too often our tactivs change week in week out, and it does not settle a team - tactics can adapt, but the core MUST remain the same - work to our strengths - always

Ooooo. We should form a coaching comittee. Tactics/players are discussed and then voted on.

it could be the way forward!

I was going to say 'have a good cry' but I then read what George Carlin wrote and am changing it to ....DO what George Carlin would do

I love how people are criticising the decision to play Brown at various positions in the backrow and bringing it up as an example of ludicrous selection, when the overwhelming concensus on this board not 3 weeks ago was that Brown would excell at 6 7 or 8 this autumn. Theres a distinct whiff of hypocrisy in the air.

Imperialbigdave wrote:I love how people are criticising the decision to play Brown at various positions in the backrow and bringing it up as an example of ludicrous selection, when the overwhelming concensus on this board not 3 weeks ago was that Brown would excell at 6 7 or 8 this autumn. Theres a distinct whiff of hypocrisy in the air.

Not sure I remember that - I remember us all saying he should be at 6 and he is not a 7 and is a poor man's 8

I certainly count myself amongst those who said the backrow was out of Balance for the South Africa game and bringing in a specialist 7 was neccessary against them.

I also touted that instead of Denton on the bench vs. NZ was a mistake and I would have had Barclay on the bench.

Kelly Brown can cover 8 at a push but I'm under no illusions that he was an emergency appointment at 7 in the wake of Rennie's injury. Barclay's efforts in the Autumn probably show why Brown was press ganged into the 7 berth since he too was innefective.

Not a detailed plan as such, but the Scottish games I've seen this AI (NZ and SA) there seems to be a real problem with basic skills, namely, passing, running and combining the 2.

This actually seems to be a problem all over the NH, but given the SRFU's position in terms of effectively running the 2 clubs (as I understand it?) as a new head coach I would look to force the clubs to employ a specific skills coach and really work hard on improving those basics. Alternatively I would have a central team of these coaches, who would be employed by the union but would spend a couple of days a week with each of the clubs. They would follow the same blueprint for the 2 club sides and the national team to ensure there is continuity throughout the process. The extension of this would be get the same coaches to work with the u16's,18's and 20's to make sure that the young players coming through were comfortable with their handling in all weather conditions.

In this way the small player pool could be used to Scotlans'd advantage, hopefully ensuring that in the same way as NZ, all of the youngsters coming through are rugby players first and big blokes second.

bathman - its the SRU not the SRFU
I believe he handling errors stem from nerves / metal attitude / being coached into playing a game that is not natural to them

TJ wrote:bathman - its the SRU not the SRFU
I believe he handling errors stem from nerves / metal attitude / being coached into playing a game that is not natural to them

I actually agree

I believe that the handle skills of Scottish rugby players is just not good enough - end of

Riskysports wrote:

TJ wrote:bathman - its the SRU not the SRFU
I believe he handling errors stem from nerves / metal attitude / being coached into playing a game that is not natural to them

I actually agree

I believe that the handle skills of Scottish rugby players is just not good enough - end of

How much influence does the Sotland coach have over the England academy system though?

ahhhh goddamn I fall in to the category of people who said Brown would be fine in any position across the back row... I would like to retract my previous opinion on the matter and admit I was wrong, Brown is a 6 and should only be played in the other positions as cover late in the game...

Another point is that I've had enough of strokosh - for all the chat of how much of a tough son of a gun that he is he just offers nothing for Scotlabd going forward

He is a prime example of the slow lumbering players that I've been talking about - we need dynamic players - we need Brown at 6!!

Yeh got to agree with you there RDW, wet and windy is fine for strokosch but its really not the kind of player we should be encouraging to play for scotland when we went to employ a fast paced game!

If I was the Scotland coach, I would just stick to a 15 man lineout tactic in the vain hope that one of the 15 players can get the lineout ball, then drive and maul all the way across the opposition's tryline. The maul area is one aspect of rugby which sadly is no longer having much of an influence on the outcome of rugby matches as say around 1991 when that great mighty England pack used the maul tactic as a way to help them to a Grand Slam. Another benefit of just using a 15 man lineout tactic is that there will be no need for those over-complicated and fancy attacking moves/tactics particularly considering that there just isn't the talent in Scotland as was the case in the great Scottish teams of the 1980's and 1990's.

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

Riskysports wrote:

TJ wrote:bathman - its the SRU not the SRFU
I believe he handling errors stem from nerves / metal attitude / being coached into playing a game that is not natural to them

I actually agree

I believe that the handle skills of Scottish rugby players is just not good enough - end of

How much influence does the Sotland coach have over the England academy system though?

is the home grown ones that have the worst hand to ball skill (and take that anyway you like :-) )