If Djokovic beats Nadal at the WTF....

The H2H would be 7-0 for Nole vs Nadal this year making it the worst H2H in the same calendar year vs 2 players.

The current record is 6-0:

McEnroe vs. Connors in 1984.

Federer vs. Hewitt in 2004.

Djokovic vs. Nadal in 2011.


0-7 this year for Nadal against Djokovic would make Nadal the biggest loser.

Interesting stat. But you could argue that at least Rafa was playing well enough to get to the final so he could be....beaten by Djoko! Similarly, the head to heads between players can be a bit misleading if one keeps getting to the final on another's favourite surface (think here about Fed v Rafal on clay) while the other doesn't do well enough to play on the other's best surface (if you know wot I mean).
Ironic that the only GS final where Fedal have not met is New York and both years when Rafa might have won Fed lost after having match points in semis. If Rafa had got to some of the USO finals between, say, 05 and 08 then Fed's head to head record against him would be better.

sirfredperry wrote: But you could argue that at least Rafa was playing well enough to get to the final so he could be....beaten by Djoko!

Not necessarily - Fed met Nadal twice in the SF at the TMC when they were Nos. 1 and 2, in 2006 and 2007. In order to avoid one another at the SF the Nos. 1 and 2 need to have the same placings in their respective groups, either both top or both second. Each time Fed and Nadal met Fed had been the group winner and Nadal second in his group.

Even so, I take your point about H2H between Nos. 1 and 2 generally.

Even more damagingly it would be defeats on Hardcourt, Clay, Grass and Indoors in the same year.

Pretty comprehensive.

Isn't this the same stick they use to beat Fed with with regards to clay, at least Nadal played well enough to reach all those finals and at least be second best. That's commendable.

Nadal could still win the calendar slam in 2012...

Not if Murray gets his first slam.

If Murray go on win Paris and WTF [without losing a match] he might end up the year as no.2 [If Rafa loses 2/3 matches in WTF], considering Rafa's standard falling off this year, it might just happen.

I will stop nadal bashing if he wins at wtf. IMO Nadal will inch closer to Fed's crown if he wins at London.

Asking an awful lot for Rafa to win all four slams. You've seen what it's taken out of Rafa and Djoko to even come close to that over the period 10/11.
I was pretty sure that Rafa would, at least, take four in a row with a win at the AO 11, but even that was too difficult a task. Given that there's four players with the game to win a slam at the moment, you could say that the chances of anyone winning all of them in one season are actually less than usual.
Another problem for those wanting to see a bit of history. Rafa is likely to remain favourite for the French but may not have the legs to win all of them. Like some, I would have preferred to see Fed beating Djoko at the USO this year but lose to him at the French semi, so we could have had a Djoko-Rafa match up in the French final.

break_in_the_fifth wrote:Isn't this the same stick they use to beat Fed with with regards to clay, at least Nadal played well enough to reach all those finals and at least be second best. That's commendable.

There's a germ of truth in that, but my interest is that if he lost on all 4 surfaces/environments in one year and lost 0-7, that's Ownership.

break_in_the_fifth wrote:Isn't this the same stick they use to beat Fed with with regards to clay, at least Nadal played well enough to reach all those finals and at least be second best. That's commendable.

I think you mean Federer, not Nadal.

In this case I did mean Nadal as this year he was the one putting himself in a position to be second best albeit on all surfaces.

And BB if all surfaces are the same and even if not they just play the same game regardless so 'across all surfaces' is inconsequential and Djokovic was just better than Nadal. I guess the only thing here is Nadal can't hide behind the 'if only he was good enough to meet me at such and such...' argument. Nadal still has a positive H2H with Djokovic anyway

break_in_the_fifth wrote:In this case I did mean Nadal as this year he was the one putting himself in a position to be second best albeit on all surfaces.

And BB if all surfaces are the same and even if not they just play the same game regardless so 'across all surfaces' is inconsequential and Djokovic was just better than Nadal. I guess the only thing here is Nadal can't hide behind the 'if only he was good enough to meet me at such and such...' argument. Nadal still has a positive H2H with Djokovic anyway

Bottom line, ownership is ownership and when you're potentially breaking records for single year h2hs that's what it is. Covering ever surface just means there's no question marks left over it.

Still, considering Djokovic's end of season who says he would win at the O2?

Novak's kicked everyone's ass this year, so why single out Rafa ?

Also I think Rafa will be more focused on the DC final rather than the WTF as was Novak last year.

erictheblueuk wrote:Novak's kicked everyone's ass this year, so why single out Rafa ?

Also I think Rafa will be more focused on the DC final rather than the WTF as was Novak last year.

I doubt it. He already has two davis cups. Besides he's already stated that he's missing Paris in order to prepare for the WTF. A win there would do much more to enhance his legacy than a third Davis Cup. Novak's case was different. He'd never won DC and neither had his country and of course he wears his patriotism like a badge of honour.

emancipator wrote:

erictheblueuk wrote:Novak's kicked everyone's ass this year, so why single out Rafa ?

Also I think Rafa will be more focused on the DC final rather than the WTF as was Novak last year.

I doubt it. He already has two davis cups. Besides he's already stated that he's missing Paris in order to prepare for the WTF. A win there would do much more to enhance his legacy than a third Davis Cup. Novak's case was different. He'd never won DC and neither had his country and of course he wears his patriotism like a badge of honour.

At the 2009 WTF Rafa lost every match he played in straight sets, he then went to win the DC final winning both his matches in straight sets.

Beating Nadal in his own game has taken a big toll out of Nole. Rafa's brand of tennis is not good, it shortens a player's career. I hope that ATP starts to work on it and discourage the physicality in tennis.

If it's really a shoulder injury, I donlt think Nadal has anything to do with Djoko's misfortune.

Likewise we could say that Nadal since losing that USO final has lost the 2 tournaments he entered and was forced to withdraw from the 3rd one due to fatigue.