Nadal beats Djokovic 6-3 6-1. What does it mean?

After losing the last 7 matches to Djokovic Nadal has finally got a win. The win was on clay at what must be one of his favourite tournaments Monte Carlo. Djokovic may have been a little distracted by the sad loss of his grandfather. Nadal looked focused and served exceptionally well. Nadal had a lot to lose (an unprecedented and perhaps unrepeatable title streak of 7) and Djokovic a lot to win (breaking that streak, beating Nadal on clay and continuing a winning streak against one of his main rivals). I would say both were highly motivated to win.

Theirs is an important rivalry in tennis. They have played each other 31 times. Nadal leads the H2H 17-14. Wins follow this pattern. NNDNNNDNDNNNDNNNNNDDDNNDDDDDDDN

What does this match mean?.... I'm not sure. Maybe they need to play a few more times for me to make up my mind?

hawkeye wrote:... What does this match mean?....

The meaning is as clear as clay - Djokovic will never win another match against Nadal. Furthermore I see a precipitous drop in ranking from Number One to Number Two.

What does it mean? Well Rafa's got his mojo back for sure.

In all seriousness if Novak had won today I'd have put my mortgage on him also winning the French. Now i'm not so sure.

That wasn't Novak at his best.

Frankly, I see that match as an anomaly. A lot of factors went for Nadal in this match. MC is the slowest of the grandslams and masters on clay. It is at sea level, the final was plagued by wind. Nadal hits the ball further back and therefore has it easier adjusting to windy conditions with his safety and margin than does Novak with his flatter and earlier hitting. As for Nadal getting his mojo back well I don't know about that. I don't think Nadal ever lost his mojo. A great number of people have talked about how Nadal has struggled or been down since the rise of Novak, I just don't see it.

If Nadal had won this match using some new tactic that Novak couldn't deal with or played at an unbelievable level that Novak couldn't match then I think this win might have meant more. But Nadal was no better than he was the last 7 times Novak beat him, maybe at most he was marginally better. It was just with the tragic circumstances surrounding his grandfather's death Novak that Djokovic just was not there mentally.

For Nadal I think it does help his confidence a little bit against Novak, but most importantly it was his first tournament win in 10 months. That is the biggest thing for Nadal. Other than winning a tournament I don't believe that Nadal thinks he did anything special, he just played a guy who was way off today. Nadal played well, but he didn't need to be stellar or particularly good to win today.

For Novak, a blow obviously... But not a huge one. He'll get over it, and I'm sure he'll play better next time they meet. Still my slight favourite for RG.

For Rafa, a huge boost. Massive. His biggest win in 10 months. He'll know that Novak will be better next time they meet, but his losing streak is history. Mentally it is absolutely massive for Nadal.

At the moment Novak, I feel, is in an area that both Federer and Nadal have been in in the past. Comfortable with their game and dominant in slams and it is slams he craves at the moment. Obviously, he would have liked to win in Monte Carlo but his eye is on the bigger prizes that lie ahead at the moment. For Nadal any win against Novak is a boost but will it really count for anything when they next meet in a slam? I am not so sure.

erictheblueuk wrote:That wasn't Novak at his best.

Maybe. Maybe all the times Novak lost to Rafa he wasn't "at his best". But of course if you say that it could also be said that maybe all the times Rafa lost to Novak he wasn't at his best?

This all makes scoring the rivaly very difficult. Instead of simply ascribing a victory or loss to either player after a match they would also need to be given a score for how close to their they had played. IMO this would be a difficult task. It also leaves the question. Who can bring their best most often?

It is more believable though that both players are playing at a higher standard/level at slams as the ultimate prize is at stake and they want to win at all costs so it holds more water that Novak was below par or not mentally tuned in today as the match held less importance to him.

CaledonianCraig wrote:At the moment Novak, I feel, is in an area that both Federer and Nadal have been in in the past. Comfortable with their game and dominant in slams and it is slams he craves at the moment. Obviously, he would have liked to win in Monte Carlo but his eye is on the bigger prizes that lie ahead at the moment. For Nadal any win against Novak is a boost but will it really count for anything when they next meet in a slam? I am not so sure.

With respect I have to disagree. In the past maybe this could have played a part. Now IMO any match between these two is important as they have become big rivals. Just like when Federer and Nadal play the match up has become too important to save everthing for slams.

IMO Djokovics victories at Wimbledon, the US Open and the AO were partly due to his wins in the masters against Nadal earlier in 2011. If like you say Novak didn't fight for the win because his eye was on bigger prizes he would have been very foolish indeed.

Much as I'd like to wind up HE here, I have to agree in a way. There's almost no such thing as a deserved win on these boards. If it's not an injury or fatigue, its the other player not being at their best.

Today there were obviously very exceptional circumstances why Novak wasn't at his best to be fair, but most of the time its no real excuse in my eyes. The credit has to go to the victor.

If everyone played to their absolute best every single match, Federer would win every tournament. He's the one with the most talent. But it isn't just about talent, is it. The player who is more consistent can win. The player who is fitter or more wants it more. The player who wins the mental battle can do it, forcing the other player to be below their best.

Very few matches are played with both players at their best. Usually one top player playing to his maximum level results in the other one being unable to reach theirs. Nadal won today because he deserved to. He lost the last 7 to Novak because he deserved to.

I still fancy Novak for RG because he seems to have most of the answers against Nadal most of the time. But today, well done Rafa.

I never saw the match today so can only go on others comments and the general concensus of opinion is that Djokovic was way off the pace in terms of the normal standards he plays at. Credit for Nadal for getting the job done and though I would still have my money on him for the French Open I don't see Nadal taking his success onto grass and hard courts against Novak in my opinion.

hawkeye wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:At the moment Novak, I feel, is in an area that both Federer and Nadal have been in in the past. Comfortable with their game and dominant in slams and it is slams he craves at the moment. Obviously, he would have liked to win in Monte Carlo but his eye is on the bigger prizes that lie ahead at the moment. For Nadal any win against Novak is a boost but will it really count for anything when they next meet in a slam? I am not so sure.

With respect I have to disagree. In the past maybe this could have played a part. Now IMO any match between these two is important as they have become big rivals. Just like when Federer and Nadal play the match up has become too important to save everthing for slams.

IMO Djokovics victories at Wimbledon, the US Open and the AO were partly due to his wins in the masters against Nadal earlier in 2011. If like you say Novak didn't fight for the win because his eye was on bigger prizes he would have been very foolish indeed.

i wrote a piece on this at the end of last year about the influence of the other wins check it out
http://richard-mills-sports.blogspot.co.uk/2012/01/djokovics-most-important-and-confidence.html

socal1976 wrote:Frankly, I see that match as an anomaly. ...

It was an anomaly betwixt a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma.

As the late Percy McMuffin used to say, "If you find yourself between a rock and a hard place, move the rock over to the hard place".

Like I said this was very odd set of circumstances. It can't but help Nadal but I don't think in anyway it changes much the next time they play. Didn't see much different from Nadal when compared to the matches he lost to Novak recently. The match was a case of one player being really off his game and the other one just being good.

And Danny, I am not making excuses a win is a win and Rafa has had some close losses during his losing streak so he was bound to break through eventually. But when looking at the greater significance I don't know if it is a huge win or if either player takes very much out of it. Novak was hitting routine shortballs out, he just didn't have it.

If Djokovic had been at his best I reckon rather than losing 6-3 6-1, then he would have lost 7-5 4-6 6-4.

However, if Nadal had have been at his best, in addition to Djokovic being at his best, rather than Nadal winning 7-5 4-6 6-4, I think he would have won 6-3 6-3.

Its a futile exercise to guess if each played his best or not. Perhaps what might give us more insight is did Nadal do anything different this time, and I notices some posters have said he did not.

If that is true and Nadal played very similar patterns then I guess it is more a case of Djokovic having an off day.

Did Nadal serve any different?
Did he flatten out his forehand?
Was he able to deal with Djoko's lethal BH any better?

The result is very similar to Rafa's loss to Federer in Indian Wells, do that mean Federer suddenly holds trump against Rafa? same is the case with Rafa-Nole.

Nole had a clear off day, and to be precise not a tournament he enjoyed, he might not even defend the upcoming clay masters and may not win the FO either , but it doesn mean Nole will suddenly lose his mojo and would never win Rafa back.

MonteCarlo result will be of less significant when they meet again, Nole and Rafa might not even meet in FO to worry about it now and I think neither of them will win FO this time around either.

invisiblecoolers wrote:... Nole and Rafa might not even meet in FO to worry about it now and I think neither of them will win FO this time around either.

By the powers of Lendl's shorts I know precisely what you mean

Nore Staat wrote:

invisiblecoolers wrote:... Nole and Rafa might not even meet in FO to worry about it now and I think neither of them will win FO this time around either.

By the powers of Lendl's shorts I know precisely what you mean

By the power of Annacone's hammer, so do I!

A bigger question for FO is how far will Federer get this year given he has alot of points to defend from 2011.
Annacone may indeed want Roger to play even more aggressively on the dirt than before, and he may be aided by the faster Babolat balls too.

Good point lydian.

Odd to think that it's now almost 12 months since Federer last made a Slam Final, given that he was pretty much part of the fixtures & fittings at all of them for countless years.

But of course once you hit your thirties, that's tennis - even for him .....

Big win for nadal but don't think it will have a huge bearing on other results going forward. Djokovic clearly had a bad day at the office, happens with every player. Big points gain for Novak so he wil have pulled well ahead in rankings

Yep lags, although he's #1 on points since USO he's still a long time from having made a hardcourt or grass slam final...AO'10...mother nature waits for no man. To be fair though, but for the grace of god he'd be in the US Open final last year. Will be interesting to see how he plays on the blue clay of Madrid coming up...

Agree slasher...Nole added another 400 points on Nadal (I think). The reuslt makes it harder for Fed to get to #1/#2 though...he needs to do well at Madrid/Rome but has huge points to defend at RG. Clearly Wimb and OG give him a chance of upping points.

There is a nice points summary at this site.... http://live-tennis.eu/

It also has points race and players schedules moving forward. Could be a good sticky link for this site actually.

That sounds about right with the ranking points Lydian. I think the french open will be intriguing this year. Nadal will be as determined as ever, djokovic seems to consistently bring his A game to the slams, will be interesting to see if he makes the final. I can see fed struggling to make final this time around but he may prove me wong. Still not convinced with Murray on clay.

I could see the likes of berdych or ferrer taking Murray out on clay. All depends on the draw. Keen to see how isner gets on, he keeps improving and has really improved his clay court game. Couldn't see him winning the French but could certainly cause an upset or two.

Fascinating clay season ahead, used to hate the clay season but liking it more the past few years.

For me it means the top of the rankings has just got more interesting and that this rivalry has now got a new dimension to it which won't see so many 1 sided contests of 2011.

Let's be clear, Nadal wasn't in his best form in 2011 and Djokovic hasn't been at the races for 2012 so far. Let's see how the rest of the Clay season fans out as I would hate to judge the outcome by this result alone. You can guarantee that Djokovic will have hungry eyes for RG.

However Nadal 8 titles back to back is simply stunning.

Nore Staat wrote:If Djokovic had been at his best I reckon rather than losing 6-3 6-1, then he would have lost 7-5 4-6 6-4.

However, if Nadal had have been at his best, in addition to Djokovic being at his best, rather than Nadal winning 7-5 4-6 6-4, I think he would have won 6-3 6-3.

I don't see it that way but you can conjecture it anyway you like. I think if both players played their best Novak wins in two tough sets. Not much different than the other 7 times they played in a row, or different than Rome or Madrid last year. Nadal won and all credit to him. But can't agree with your post here. Don't see much evidence for it from their encounters over 2011 and 2012.

socal1976 wrote:And Danny, I am not making excuses a win is a win and Rafa has had some close losses during his losing streak so he was bound to break through eventually. But when looking at the greater significance I don't know if it is a huge win or if either player takes very much out of it. Novak was hitting routine shortballs out, he just didn't have it.

I know socal, I wasn't getting at you. This is one of the few occasions where there actually are circumstances away from the court which may have had an affect on a performance. It was more of a general point. I struggle to think of many matches when 2 top players are playing at their maximum. Sometimes the fact that one is at their top level means the other one can't be.

I just think sometimes people need to accept a defeat for their favourite player, rather than try and find excuses for it. The guy who ends up with the W is the one who deserves the plaudits.

Sure Danny, never said Nadal doesn't deserve the plaudits, it was definetly a big win. But it was just that a masters series win that doesn't change very much overrall in my opinion. The only long term effect which could help is that Nadal will feel a bit more confident in their next matchup.

I still fancy Novak for RG at this minute purely because his assets negate Nadal's most effective weapons, but if they meet in either of the 2 clay events coming up it becomes a very big match. Remember, a year ago Novak turned the rivalry around in these tournaments and it was that belief - and more importantly the belief it drained from Nadal - that I believe led to the landslide 7-0.

As always, so much will depend on the draw. Nadal won't mind if he gets Murray or Federer in his half. Novak would prefer Murray by some distance. Ironically, I think it is the semi Murray would want as he seems far more able to go toe to toe with Novak than he does with Rafa.

That said, I don't expect Murray to reach the semis so its academic. But assuming they all get there again, I assume you would rather Novak was in Murray's half too, particularly on this surface?

reckoner wrote:

Nore Staat wrote:

invisiblecoolers wrote:... Nole and Rafa might not even meet in FO to worry about it now and I think neither of them will win FO this time around either.

By the powers of Lendl's shorts I know precisely what you mean

By the power of Annacone's hammer, so do I!

Lets hope so Nora, its time Lendl brings something special out of Murray and help him win the FO.

@Reckoner , Believe it or not, I believe it will be Federer to trump FO this year, poor guy has gone through several years of narrow misses, he deserve one more FO title and he might just get it, his shcedule plan for 2012 is picture perfect. Can't wait for the Mastero to hit the tennis court back. I had very little interest in MC Masters coz of his abscence, one thing that brought a little bit of interest is to see Rafa win Nole finally.

Interesting Clay season ahead.

invisiblecoolers : I can't say I agree on Federer and FO prospects.

IMO, seven rounds and Bo5 - especially on tiring clay - is just a bridge too far these days. Feasible but unlikely.

I know Sampras managed his last USO at a very similar age (a few months older in fact) but he did end up meeting another pensioner (albeit a super-fit one ...!!) in the Final itself, and Federer would not have that 'luxury' .......

I think Federer just winning one more slam, any slam, would be interesting - but I can't see it happening at the French. Maybe he should "focus"on Wimbledon or the US Open. Anyway outside of Nadal and Djokovic - he does seem to be best placed to win a slam. Murray is probably fourth best placed to win a slam - he needs to prove he "can" win one first.

Nore Staat - hmmm...I guess when you put it like that...

Take Djoker and Nadal out of the equation (injury and/or uncharacteristic/shock early round exit) and you immediately start wondering who would be next best favourite.

And if it then comes down to battle-hardened experience ..... who better than a 16 Slam-man you'd have to say, even in his twilight years

Perfectly summed-up wrt Murray. If he can finally get the monkey off his back... who knows what next. But until he actually does, the familiar doubts will always remain.

Cough...! I know it's not a popular opinion around here but I still put Federer above Djokovic as far as slam winning potential goes this year.

Not a popular opinion with the bookies either HE !

Early odds :

RG : Djoker 6/4 Fed 10/1 (Rafa evens !!)

Wimb : Djoker 7/4 Fed 5/2 (Rafa 7/2)

USO : Djoker 13/8 Fed 3/1 (Rafa 3/1)

Place your bets please

source : Ladbrokes

I think the French Open is going to be the most intriguing of all the slams this year - we just need everyone to be fit. There have been previous threads on 606v2 explaining why this years French Open is going to be so "unique" - a possible modern day grand slam (four in a row), or the continuation of the clay slam legend (breaking the Borg record with perhaps more to come). If either Federer or Murray wins then that too will have its own "meaning".

lags72

I don't bet but those odds look odd! Particularly Wimbledon. No disrespect to Djokovic but 7/4 after one performance. Look at his previous play on grass. Pffft!

NS - intriguing to think that Djoker has the opportunity to pull off a double whammy.

Not just four-in-a-row, but could then go on to make it a true calendar GS too - IF if he can successfully defend both Wimby and USO ....!

he - well that's bookies for you ! They don't always call it right - but the biggest of them have been around a good while ....

hawkeye wrote:I don't bet but those odds look odd! Particularly Wimbledon. No disrespect to Djokovic but 7/4 after one performance. Look at his previous play on grass. Pffft!

Firstly it was not "one performance" - there were seven linked performances that were required to win the tournament.
Secondly, believing you can win and knowing you can win is a huge difference.
It is for those reasons the Wimbledon odds are not odd, in my extremely humble opinion.

socal1976 wrote:Sure Danny, never said Nadal doesn't deserve the plaudits, it was definetly a big win. But it was just that a masters series win that doesn't change very much overrall in my opinion. The only long term effect which could help is that Nadal will feel a bit more confident in their next matchup.

Not sure I agree with you there socal.. it wasn´t any old Masters it was Monte Carlo and as Borg said a very prestigious tournament next to a GS... so I would say that Nadal will gain much from that win.. and more to the point Novak will know it. But its all in the lap of the Gods... he who dares wins as they say... and its all on the day.

haddie as you say it remains to be seen. Judging by how much better they are than pretty much the rest of the competition they are going to have to fight it out many more times over the course of the season. So far Nadal has one win and Djokovic one win. That is about all you can say about that, and if the recent record has anything to say about most likely Novak will come back much stronger for their next battle.

Socal Im not saying anything has changed as far as their tennis is concerned.. what I saw during the 7 defeats Rafa suffered at Nole´s hands was a slow decline in his concentration, focus, determination and confidence... Rafa has admitted that there are many players on tour who tennis is as good if not better than his... however his mental strength and ability to stay focussed has been his armour and every player Ive heard who play him say that very thing. But I saw something different again in Rafa in MC... I think Nole did too It was back . I agree it can only be good for the competitiveness between them and should make for one hell of a rivalry... believe me I hope so. Because the game needs Rafa as I do believe it wont be far off before Roger retires... we do not need the domination of one man. I want to see the strength and talent go deeper we have after all had a 4 way domination and albeit some might say its been boring.. we have little coming through the ranks that can hold a candle to them. However much you support your boy I dont want to see another Sampras era. One man domination .it wont be good for the game.

Alot of people for one reason or another, will have their longwinded opinions of the match, and result of the Monte Carlo final. Bottom line is, it means what is was, a sinlge match victory for Nadal, with all the considerations that were pertinent to THAT match, at that moment in time.

For those people that think they have the "be all and end all" formula, for what is coming at the French Open or at any time before, it's absolute rubbish.

Did Djokovic have lot to deal with, leading up the match - yes, so join "the club!"

Did Nadal play very well? Yes, join the club.

Anyone who says because this happened in the Monte Carlo final, means that so and so, will happen in Barcelona, Rome and/or the French, is spouting rubbish.

I think each match between players of this caliber is an entity of it's own - you can look at literally 5 points in:

1) Federer v Nadal - Wimbledon 2007
2) Djokovic v Nadal - US Open 2011, etc, etc.,
and a multitiude of others....

..to see that things can change...

As the season unfolds we'll see what's going to happen - and I'll bet it's a different scenario from what all these "experts" have forecast.....it's coming.....

Well thats an interesting response at least... the rest of us have been put in our place by the "expert" who considers everyone else´s opinions ( long winded or otherwise) are rubbish.
In future we who spout rubbish can consult the oracle for his expert analysis of any match.summarised and ready for us to digest... we dont have to post .. that will save a lot of time and the moderators can retire. In fact it might even be pointless watching the match.

yloponom68 wrote:Alot of people for one reason or another, will have their longwinded opinions of the match, and result of the Monte Carlo final. Bottom line is, it means what is was, a sinlge match victory for Nadal, with all the considerations that were pertinent to THAT match, at that moment in time.

For those people that think they have the "be all and end all" formula, for what is coming at the French Open or at any time before, it's absolute rubbish.

Did Djokovic have lot to deal with, leading up the match - yes, so join "the club!"

Did Nadal play very well? Yes, join the club.

Anyone who says because this happened in the Monte Carlo final, means that so and so, will happen in Barcelona, Rome and/or the French, is spouting rubbish.

I think each match between players of this caliber is an entity of it's own - you can look at literally 5 points in:

1) Federer v Nadal - Wimbledon 2007
2) Djokovic v Nadal - US Open 2011, etc, etc.,
and a multitiude of others....

..to see that things can change...

As the season unfolds we'll see what's going to happen - and I'll bet it's a different scenario from what all these "experts" have forecast.....it's coming.....

Totally agree.

Well I do not agree whatever your opinions that everyone else´s should be classified as rubbish.. you are entitled to your opinion and so as everyone else..Your post however much you think it factual is only your opinion that is all and it not jusr rude but disrespectful. This I will remind you is a public forum where everyones opinions are tolerated, albeit not necessarily agreed with .

Eh? monolpoly has made some very good points, I agree with their post.

I really don't see why you're taking exception to that, but feel free to explode in a puff of outrage!

Reckoner again you choose to pìck me up on my post...and if you cannot see that a poster should call someone else´s opinions rubbish is both rude and disrespectful then that post applies to you also.
But in future will you stop attacking me.. I was not addressing that comment to you but to another poster you are determined to want to cross swords with me though I am not sure why. I suggest you dont respond to my posts at all unless I specifically address them to you... but I wont