Who will be the winners in week 2 of the HEC

Pool 1

Northampton v Scarlets Fri 20:00
Castres v Munster Sat 15:40

Pool 2

Cardiff Blues v London Irish, Fri 20:00
Edinburgh v Racing Metro, Fri 20:00

Pool 3

Bath v Montpellier, Sun 15:00
Leinster v Glasgow, Sun 12:45

Pool 4
Leicester v Ulster, Sat 18:00
Clermont Auvergne v Aironi, Fri 20:00

Pool 5

Treviso v Ospreys, Sat 13:30
Biarritz v Saracens, Sat 13:30

Pool 6

Connacht v Toulouse, Sat 18:00
Gloucester v Harlequins, Sat 15:40

Looks like the certains and the definitely will nots are developing rapidly...!

Regular favourites Leinster have a strong vote, Clermont are playing Airioni, the only team with no votes.

Several clubs gaining favour, Saints, Blues and Ospreys all gaining favour.

Impressive performances last week by Scarlets, Glasgow and Connacht have done little persuade this weeks vote so far.

I have gone for all home wins bar Ospreys and Toulouse.

The Blues have good chance to get proper grip on the group while the Scarlets will have a very tough time at the Saints I feel.

Home fixtures are definitely prevailing as an advantage. Two away wins stood out last week, blues beating Racing and Edinburgh beating London Irish.

Leinster draw against Montpellier might actually say more about Montpelliers ability than lack of.

Some Welsh have been saying that Treviso are a very good side who cannot be underestimated. I think they could shock Ospreys at home.

Also it wouldn't be surprising if Castres beat Munster either.

Saracens,Racing Metro and Toulouse have the best chances to win away from home.

bedfordwelsh wrote:I have gone for all home wins bar Ospreys and Toulouse.

The Blues have good chance to get proper grip on the group while the Scarlets will have a very tough time at the Saints I feel.

If your first sentence comes true, then Edinburgh will have won two as well as Cardiff, so then your second sentence about the Blues doesn't really hold true? I actually think that Edinburgh might get turned over by RM - think they'll give HC one more shot before abandoning it to concentrate on the T14 if the don't win, and they'll be smarting from their defeat at home

I think Saracens can win in Biarritz
I think Edinburgh can overturn Racing Metro
I'm also gonna back Quins away in Kingsholm.

I do think Edinburgh have what it takes to beat Racing Metro on Friday night. The French tend to travel poorly and the Edinburgh side will be full of confidence and to my knowledge have no injury issues (Denton aside).

It's a big ask, but the away win on Saturday will have done wonders to the confidence levels of the young players in the Edinburgh side. McInally must be champing at the bit to get back out there.

Glasgow are playing Leinster in Dublin. My optimism only stretches so far (although I've been underestimating Glasgow in my predictions all season).

Pool 1

Northampton v Scarlets - Home advantage and Saints will be smarting over last weeks loss. Saints by 7+

Castres v Munster Sat 15:40 - Munster sneaking the win in the last minute is a potential sign of their weekness this year... to be seen to be honest. Think Castres will win but close. Less than 7

Pool 2

Cardiff Blues v London Irish, Fri 20:00 Can't see past Cardiff win at home. 7+

Edinburgh v Racing Metro, Fri 20:00. Away win for Metro by 7+

Pool 3

Bath v Montpellier, Sun 15:00 Bath by a hefty margin. 7+

Leinster v Glasgow, Sun 12:45. Glasgow have a chance here, but a remote one. Leinster also by a hefty margin.

Pool 4

Leicester v Ulster, Sat 18:00 Close and nervy win for Tigers by less than 7. A lot of injuries and missing players in the backs.

Clermont Auvergne v Aironi, Fri 20:00 Shock of the HEC. Aironi win away.

Pool 5

Treviso v Ospreys, Sat 13:30 Ospreys by 7+

Biarritz v Saracens, Sat 13:30 Biaritz seem to be in free fall and are trying to stop the rot in the Top 14. They may be tempted to start a weakened side for this. Saracens by -7

Pool 6

Connacht v Toulouse, Sat 18:00 Toulouse win by more than 7
Gloucester v Harlequins, Sat 15:40 Harlequins by more than 7

All in all I've gone for a straight split 6 away wins & 6 home wins.

Oh, by the way, the Aironi prediction was meant to be humerous... or was it?

Tiger while it wouldn't surprise me if Castres won I don't understand this point

"Munster sneaking the win in the last minute is a potential sign of their weekness this year"

How does playing to the final whistle and winning the match show them to be weak??

Metal Tiger agree with most of that but feel that Gloucester will win because of home advantage.

I think the shock of the weekend could be Treviso vs Ospreys. Of course bias comes in as it would be ideal but still....

Aironi have no chance in my opinion.

Another potential shock would be Bath losing at home.

Could London Irish defy all expectations? Surely not.

My 2 cents worth....

Pool 1

Northampton v Scarlets - Saints by 7+
Castres v Munster - Munster by -7

Pool 2

Cardiff Blues v London Irish - Irish by -7 (heart prediction)
Edinburgh v Racing Metro - Edinburgh by -7

Pool 3

Bath v Montpellier - Montpellier by -7
Leinster v Glasgow - Leinster by 7+

Pool 4
Leicester v Ulster- Leicester by -7
Clermont Auvergne v Aironi - ASM by 7+

Pool 5

Treviso v Ospreys - Treviso by -7
Biarritz v Saracens - Saracens by -7

Pool 6

Connacht v Toulouse - Toulouse by -7
Gloucester v Harlequins - Gloucester by 7+

I think Irish can get the win in Cardiff.

Toulouse by -7 is an interesting call Ozzy.

I think Connacht will give them a tough game Stag, particularly if it's shoite conditions at the Sportsground. Toulouse quality will win out in the end, but I see them getting a bit of a scare.

Ozzy3213 good calls.

London Irish are one of those sides that are so unpredictable. In this case I think Cardiff should prevail though.

Aren't you missing half your backline?

Surprised by how many people are backing Connacht to beat Toulouse!

Yeah, missing Darren Allinson, JJ, Delon, Losi, Marland Yarde and possibly Topsy (although he might be fit for Friday). If he is we can go with a backline of Samson, Bowden, Thompstone, Hape, Ansbro, Ojo, Homer, which isn't too bad.

To be honest our main problem on Saturday was a lack of intensity at the tackle area from our forwards. We got outmuscled there by the Edinburgh pack who put simply looked more up for it than we did.

If the Blues have any thoughts of going far then they have to really back up the good win in France with a home win.

Losing against the Irish will completely undo the good work done. How is Roberts' injury, will he be fit this weekend?

Pool 1

Northampton v Scarlets - Saints by 7+
Castres v Munster - Castres by -7

Pool 2

Cardiff Blues v London Irish - Cardiff +7
Edinburgh v Racing Metro - Racing by -7

Pool 3

Bath v Montpellier - Bath by -7
Leinster v Glasgow - Leinster by 7+

Pool 4
Leicester v Ulster- Leicester by -7
Clermont Auvergne v Aironi - ASM by 7+

Pool 5

Treviso v Ospreys - Ospreys by 7+
Biarritz v Saracens - Saracens by -7

Pool 6

Connacht v Toulouse - Toulouse by 7+
Gloucester v Harlequins - Gloucester by 7+.

We (the blues) need to win this weekend and win well. If we win, i am fully confident we will turn Edinburgh over in the double header. We beat them 4 times last year and already given them a thumping at Murrayfield this season in the pro 12.

As for friday, our forwards need to do another job like they did last week. And given our quality back line, if we get the platform...we can take them apart.

bedfordwelsh wrote:If the Blues have any thoughts of going far then they have to really back up the good win in France with a home win.

Losing against the Irish will completely undo the good work done. How is Roberts' injury, will he be fit this weekend?

Saw something suggesting he will be fit which is a huge boost. Nothing on Laulaula going off either, so hopefully he should be fit too - giving us our first choice backline.

Ozzy3213 wrote:Yeah, missing Darren Allinson, JJ, Delon, Losi, Marland Yarde and possibly Topsy (although he might be fit for Friday). If he is we can go with a backline of Samson, Bowden, Thompstone, Hape, Ansbro, Ojo, Homer, which isn't too bad.

To be honest our main problem on Saturday was a lack of intensity at the tackle area from our forwards. We got outmuscled there by the Edinburgh pack who put simply looked more up for it than we did.

LI will need a good forward effort on Friday, if the Blues can just get parity then LI will be in trouble.

The best way to beat the Blues (as Munster have shown many times and Northampton shown last HC ) is to bully their forwards and get dominance at the scrum and breakdown (or in Munsters case, cheat at every scrum and breakdown ) - In my opinion, LI doesnt have the forward orientated gameplan to beat us, in an open game, the Blues backs can be deadly - especially with our back3s current form.

In anycase, I think it will be a very fast open game and should be fun to watch - Hopefully not too much indiscipline though, because Homer looks deadly with the boot and Parks kicking is variable to say the least.

I wonder if Halfpenny will start? Then we will have a long range kicker too, which will be useful.

wales606 wrote:

Ozzy3213 wrote:Yeah, missing Darren Allinson, JJ, Delon, Losi, Marland Yarde and possibly Topsy (although he might be fit for Friday). If he is we can go with a backline of Samson, Bowden, Thompstone, Hape, Ansbro, Ojo, Homer, which isn't too bad.

To be honest our main problem on Saturday was a lack of intensity at the tackle area from our forwards. We got outmuscled there by the Edinburgh pack who put simply looked more up for it than we did.

LI will need a good forward effort on Friday, if the Blues can just get parity then LI will be in trouble.

The best way to beat the Blues (as Munster have shown many times and Northampton shown last HC ) is to bully their forwards and get dominance at the scrum and breakdown (or in Munsters case, cheat at every scrum and breakdown ) - In my opinion, LI doesnt have the forward orientated gameplan to beat us, in an open game, the Blues backs can be deadly - especially with our back3s current form.

In anycase, I think it will be a very fast open game and should be fun to watch - Hopefully not too much indiscipline though, because Homer looks deadly with the boot and Parks kicking is variable to say the least.

I wonder if Halfpenny will start? Then we will have a long range kicker too, which will be useful.

Henson is apparently also in the mix for a start, guessing if Roberts is not fit then he will fit in at 12. I fear that he wont get on with Dan Parks game plan though.

Where are all the Biarritz fans hiding? 9 people have voted for Biarritz yet no one has commented on this thread.

Why do people think they will win? Simply home advantage?

HEC round 2 : the empire strikes back
reckon and hope all french teams would win (well appart from castres that will struggle vs munster) after round 1 reality check.

red_stag wrote:Tiger while it wouldn't surprise me if Castres won I don't understand this point

"Munster sneaking the win in the last minute is a potential sign of their weekness this year"

How does playing to the final whistle and winning the match show them to be weak??

Munster of old were legendary for their home record and thrashing sides at Thomond, over the last few years Leinster have stole a march on the corkmen and knocked the shine off their rivals. Just a year to two ago Munster would have won that fixture comfortably. But times are a changing and to squeak through at the death like that shows they are probably the most vulnerable they have been in a long time.

maestegmafia wrote:

wales606 wrote:

Ozzy3213 wrote:Yeah, missing Darren Allinson, JJ, Delon, Losi, Marland Yarde and possibly Topsy (although he might be fit for Friday). If he is we can go with a backline of Samson, Bowden, Thompstone, Hape, Ansbro, Ojo, Homer, which isn't too bad.

To be honest our main problem on Saturday was a lack of intensity at the tackle area from our forwards. We got outmuscled there by the Edinburgh pack who put simply looked more up for it than we did.

LI will need a good forward effort on Friday, if the Blues can just get parity then LI will be in trouble.

The best way to beat the Blues (as Munster have shown many times and Northampton shown last HC ) is to bully their forwards and get dominance at the scrum and breakdown (or in Munsters case, cheat at every scrum and breakdown ) - In my opinion, LI doesnt have the forward orientated gameplan to beat us, in an open game, the Blues backs can be deadly - especially with our back3s current form.

In anycase, I think it will be a very fast open game and should be fun to watch - Hopefully not too much indiscipline though, because Homer looks deadly with the boot and Parks kicking is variable to say the least.

I wonder if Halfpenny will start? Then we will have a long range kicker too, which will be useful.

Henson is apparently also in the mix for a start, guessing if Roberts is not fit then he will fit in at 12. I fear that he wont get on with Dan Parks game plan though.

I heard Henson is still injured for another week/2weeks - I imagine that Hewitt or Evans will start in any case, Henson would be too much of a risk for the HC.

beshocked wrote:Where are all the Biarritz fans hiding? 9 people have voted for Biarritz yet no one has commented on this thread.

Why do people think they will win? Simply home advantage?

- home advantage
- increased confindence with the return of key experienced players (their game at the liberty was probably one of their best since the beginning of the season and could have ended with a draw if it wasnt for a so-called forward pass).

with time they will improve and become the resilient Biarritz of old. not sure if it will happen against Saracens but surely they will give a good fight.

Fair enough whocares.

wales606 wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

wales606 wrote:

Ozzy3213 wrote:Yeah, missing Darren Allinson, JJ, Delon, Losi, Marland Yarde and possibly Topsy (although he might be fit for Friday). If he is we can go with a backline of Samson, Bowden, Thompstone, Hape, Ansbro, Ojo, Homer, which isn't too bad.

To be honest our main problem on Saturday was a lack of intensity at the tackle area from our forwards. We got outmuscled there by the Edinburgh pack who put simply looked more up for it than we did.

LI will need a good forward effort on Friday, if the Blues can just get parity then LI will be in trouble.

The best way to beat the Blues (as Munster have shown many times and Northampton shown last HC ) is to bully their forwards and get dominance at the scrum and breakdown (or in Munsters case, cheat at every scrum and breakdown ) - In my opinion, LI doesnt have the forward orientated gameplan to beat us, in an open game, the Blues backs can be deadly - especially with our back3s current form.

In anycase, I think it will be a very fast open game and should be fun to watch - Hopefully not too much indiscipline though, because Homer looks deadly with the boot and Parks kicking is variable to say the least.

I wonder if Halfpenny will start? Then we will have a long range kicker too, which will be useful.

Henson is apparently also in the mix for a start, guessing if Roberts is not fit then he will fit in at 12. I fear that he wont get on with Dan Parks game plan though.

I heard Henson is still injured for another week/2weeks - I imagine that Hewitt or Evans will start in any case, Henson would be too much of a risk for the HC.

I thought Evans looked good when he came on.

Doesn't look good for the Scarlets

Everyone seems to be saying Northampton by 7+

beshocked wrote:Where are all the Biarritz fans hiding? 9 people have voted for Biarritz yet no one has commented on this thread.

Why do people think they will win? Simply home advantage?

I voted Biarritz but it's one of the games along with Leicster/Ulster and Treviso/Ospreys I wouldn't be surprised if I was wrong.Home advantage is huge and I think Sarries will get a BP anything more would be fantastic and make them real solid favourites to win the group.

Smirnoffpriest wrote:Doesn't look good for the Scarlets

Everyone seems to be saying Northampton by 7+

Priest,

Thought the Scarlets played very well on weekend and looked good but if they can get anything out of the Saints match then I think that will be very good result.

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

beshocked wrote:Where are all the Biarritz fans hiding? 9 people have voted for Biarritz yet no one has commented on this thread.

Why do people think they will win? Simply home advantage?

I voted Biarritz but it's one of the games along with Leicster/Ulster and Treviso/Ospreys I wouldn't be surprised if I was wrong.Home advantage is huge and I think Sarries will get a BP anything more would be fantastic and make them real solid favourites to win the group.

Agreed historically no teams do well in France bar the French.

I dont look forward to the Ospreys going there, I kind of pre anticipate a loss and hope fro a losing BP.

maestegmafia that's not the right attitude to have. You should expect to win every game you play.

If you go to France with no fear you can come away with the win. Look at your Welsh cousins, Cardiff Blues for inspiration.

I personally will only be pleased with a win vs Biarritz. This is the best time to play them IMO. They'll be under a lot of pressure to perform.A loss for them and they are virtually out of Europe. A strong start is essential.

beshocked wrote:maestegmafia that's not the right attitude to have. You should expect to win every game you play.

If you go to France with no fear you can come away with the win. Look at your Welsh cousins, Cardiff Blues for inspiration.

I personally will only be pleased with a win vs Biarritz. This is the best time to play them IMO. They'll be under a lot of pressure to perform.A loss for them and they are virtually out of Europe. A strong start is essential.

The player may have gone with a lot of optimism and the right attitude - to win the game

However, the Blues fans either had desperate heart led optimism or dreading despair.

With the team we put out I though a win was possible, but I certainly dont expect us to win every game...thats for the players to believe.

wales606 wrote:

beshocked wrote:maestegmafia that's not the right attitude to have. You should expect to win every game you play.

If you go to France with no fear you can come away with the win. Look at your Welsh cousins, Cardiff Blues for inspiration.

I personally will only be pleased with a win vs Biarritz. This is the best time to play them IMO. They'll be under a lot of pressure to perform.A loss for them and they are virtually out of Europe. A strong start is essential.

The player may have gone with a lot of optimism and the right attitude - to win the game

However, the Blues fans either had desperate heart led optimism or dreading despair.

With the team we put out I though a win was possible, but I certainly dont expect us to win every game...thats for the players to believe.

I agree 100%

And it goes from bad to worse, Shontayne Hape has been cited, not for the tackle which earned him a yellow, but for the tackle on Denton in the first half.

At this rate our backline will consist of some formation of the only 7 players we have fit and available.

beshocked

I voted for Biarritz. Yes I think home advantage will be enough, you can match them up front but their backs are pretty deadly with ball in hand. Ospreys had the upper hand up front against them saturday, even the replacements Bevington, Bennet and Jarvis drove them backwards again and again in the scrum. The backs were impotent with Biggar calling the shots and Fussell dropping high balls (as predicted). Losing to Treviso would be a first for them and they usually thrash them home & away in this competition. I think they'll win but I don't see them getting the bonus point for reasons mentioned.

Sarries, Toulouse and Racing Metro to win away from home. Home wins elsewhere. Clermont, Leinster and Northampton to pick up try bonus points, Munster, Montpellier, Ulster, Ospreys and Harlequins to pick up losing bonus points.

Winners in bold

Northampton v Scarlets
Castres v Munster
Cardiff Blues v London Irish
Edinburgh v Racing Metro
Bath v Montpellier
Leinster v Glasgow
Leicester v Ulster
Clermont Auvergne v Aironi
Treviso v Ospreys
Biarritz v Saracens
Connacht v Toulouse
Gloucester v Harlequins

I think we can be confident, because SafeAsMilk always gets his predictions wrong. It was only the weekend just gone by that he said all Welsh Regions would lose their games. What a nutjob.

Morgannwg wrote:I think we can be confident, because SafeAsMilk always gets his predictions wrong. It was only the weekend just gone by that he said all Welsh Regions would lose their games. What a nutjob.

Thats a relief...Blues are bound to win now , even without Jamie Roberts.

wales606 wrote:

Morgannwg wrote:I think we can be confident, because SafeAsMilk always gets his predictions wrong. It was only the weekend just gone by that he said all Welsh Regions would lose their games. What a nutjob.

Thats a relief...Blues are bound to win now , even without Jamie Roberts.

Could be another great weekend for the welsh regions then.

I guess he didn't pick a single welsh win, all premiership sides to win. Maybe a draw between gloucester and Harlequins to keep it simple..?

Beshocked might be happy to learn that Yachvilli is now officially out for 2 weeks (following an injury caught during the RWC QF after which he wasnt able to kick properly anyway).

Whocares mixed emotions for me.

Part of me is of course pleased because it means Biarritz one less talisman to draw upon but the other part wishes our nemesis would play.


Morganwwg you don't know anything about our team.

I'll give you information you might find useful.

15. Either Alex Goode or Chris Wyles.

Alex Goode is an ex England U20s player, been full back for Saracens for the last 2 seasons when reaching the two AP finals.

Chris Wyles is an USA international. Ex USA Sevens captain. Very reliable but also a consistent performer.

14. David Strettle, ex Quins flyer. Surely you know who he is?

13.Owen Farrell - Only 20 but already making waves. One of the brightest young prospects around.

12.Brad Barritt - one of the favourites to get called up for England's 6 nations squad. One of the most consistent and best defensive centres in England.

11. James Short, only 21. Ex England U20s. Deceptively powerful. Highlights include scoring winning AP final try and playing a key role in last season's AP try of the season.

10. Charlie Hodgson - one of the best fly halves plying their trade in the AP.

9. Neil De Kock - experienced South African and Saracens stalwart.

Our backs are probably more well known than Biarritzs' now. Oh you'll notice that most are English.

Also Richard Wigglesworth, England scrum half is out for the season.

I think the Saracens backline has a lot of firepower. Just have to decide how and when to use it.

I am more worried about the Biarritz pack. When you have two French internationals in the frontrow....That's of course without including Thion and Harinorduquy.

Really looking forward to this!

beshocked wrote:Whocares mixed emotions for me.

Part of me is of course pleased because it means Biarritz one less talisman to draw upon but the other part wishes our nemesis would play.


Morganwwg you don't know anything about our team.

I'll give you information you might find useful.

Our backs are probably more well known than Biarritzs' now. Oh you'll notice that most are English.

Also Richard Wigglesworth, England scrum half is out for the season.

I think the Saracens backline has a lot of firepower. Just have to decide how and when to use it.

I am more worried about the Biarritz pack. When you have two French internationals in the frontrow....That's of course without including Thion and Harinorduquy.

Really looking forward to this!

Beshoked
Like to know what you mean by "most are English" ............ Morganwwg might not know alot about your team but he knows now that your I/C might play eventually for England but he was born in Durban SA wasnt he?

50% of the back positions are likely to be filled by players who were born outside of England's green and pleasant land

15 Wyles USA
12 Barrit - SA
9 De Kock - SA

Anyway my feel for R2 of the HC is

Cardiff Blues v London Irish, Pl2, 20:00
Clermont Auvergne v Aironi, Pl4, 20:00
Edinburgh v Racing Metro 92, Pl2, 20:00
Northampton v Scarlets, Pl1, 20:00
Biarritz v Saracens, Pl5, 13:30
Treviso v Ospreys, Pl5, 13:30
Castres v Munster, Pl1, 15:40
Gloucester v Harlequins, Pl6, 15:40
Connacht v Toulouse, Pl6, 18:00
Leicester v Ulster, Pl4, 18:00
Leinster v Glasgow, Pl3, 12:45
Bath v Montpellier, Pl3, 15:00

I feel the suprise of the weekend will be by the Scarlets....... certainly in my mind a much better back line and if their forwards can hold onto 40% of the possession then they might just snatch it. Other possible "shocks" Ospreys and Munster

flyhalffactory wrote:

beshocked wrote:Whocares mixed emotions for me.

Part of me is of course pleased because it means Biarritz one less talisman to draw upon but the other part wishes our nemesis would play.


Morganwwg you don't know anything about our team.

I'll give you information you might find useful.

Our backs are probably more well known than Biarritzs' now. Oh you'll notice that most are English.

Also Richard Wigglesworth, England scrum half is out for the season.

I think the Saracens backline has a lot of firepower. Just have to decide how and when to use it.

I am more worried about the Biarritz pack. When you have two French internationals in the frontrow....That's of course without including Thion and Harinorduquy.

Really looking forward to this!

Beshoked
Like to know what you mean by "most are English" ............ Morganwwg might not know alot about your team but he knows now that your I/C might play eventually for England but he was born in Durban SA wasnt he?

50% of the back positions are likely to be filled by players who were born outside of England's green and pleasant land

15 Wyles USA
12 Barrit - SA
9 De Kock - SA

Anyway my feel for R2 of the HC is

Cardiff Blues v London Irish, Pl2, 20:00
Clermont Auvergne v Aironi, Pl4, 20:00
Edinburgh v Racing Metro 92, Pl2, 20:00
Northampton v Scarlets, Pl1, 20:00
Biarritz v Saracens, Pl5, 13:30
Treviso v Ospreys, Pl5, 13:30
Castres v Munster, Pl1, 15:40
Gloucester v Harlequins, Pl6, 15:40
Connacht v Toulouse, Pl6, 18:00
Leicester v Ulster, Pl4, 18:00
Leinster v Glasgow, Pl3, 12:45
Bath v Montpellier, Pl3, 15:00

I feel the suprise of the weekend will be by the Scarlets....... certainly in my mind a much better back line and if their forwards can hold onto 40% of the possession then they might just snatch it. Other possible "shocks" Ospreys and Munster

To be fair Barritt may have been born in Durban, but he has one English and one South African parent and by virtue of that has dual nationality and holds a UK passport, so for me that's good enough for him to be classed as English.

If you are going solely on places of birth, Simon Shaw is not English and ROG is not Irish, so I think just quoting places of birth is a daft argument.

Thats a fair call Ozzy, but when beshocked states

"Morganwwg you don't know anything about our team.

I'll give you information you might find useful.

Our backs are probably more well known than Biarritzs' now. Oh you'll notice that most are English."

Well I might be wrong but that sounds like a big dollop of sarcasm, and TBH not strictly true, methinks he opened a can of worms there...... come on now 50% parentage SA, and actually born in SA ...........maybe be should have kept silent on Sarries selction policy

flyhalffactory

If morganwwg and beshocked want to wind each other up then that's their call, I'm just presenting the facts as they are.

The whole 'Saffacens' thing is an easy stick to beat their club with, but in reality, they are bringing through a lot of young English talent such as Jamie George, Harry Allen, Jared Saunders, George Kruis, Andy Saull, Will Fraser, Owen Farrell, James Short, Alex Goode and Ben Ransom to name a few, all of whom have played in the first team in the past 18 months and all of whom have represented England at U20 or Saxons level in that time as well.