Greats that have been sullied by a loss!!

It's the saddest blow of all when you have a stellar career but are only really remembered for a loss by the majority of fans......

Take Spinks you'd think he'd never been a great light heavy and a record breaking heavyweight (becoming the first reigning 175 pound champion to take the heavy crown) by the garbage written about Tyson.....although I'm sure he couldn't care less I do feel sorry for Spinks..

Hearns to a certain extent suffers the same fate......The Hagler fight is forever talked about at Hagler's advantage and at Hearns misfortune....

Wilfredo Gomez lost to the high profile Sanchez and Nelson....and he was a wonderful 122 pounder..

Just wonder if there are any better examples out there...who've suffered this ignominious fate..

Not sure why you'd put this in trash talk Truss, you've written worse.

Moved to main board

James Toney can't be mentioned without reference to Jones easily besting him.

See where Rowley spends most of his time these days..

Toney you'd think would be remembered for beating the near-great Michael Nunn..who was supposed to be the next best thing..

But alas I think you're right..

definitely a great for me.

The Leonard fight gets mentioned when people want to put down Hagler.

No...Hagler is overrated to a certain extent in my opinion...

Most people have him higher than Mayweather and he lost three times and drew with Vito....

Disagree but cheers for your opinion..

Would also throw in Naz. Can't read a thread about him without the words "exposed" and "MAB" in it.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:No...Hagler is overrated to a certain extent in my opinion...

Most people have him higher than Mayweather and he lost three times and drew with Vito....

Disagree but cheers for your opinion..

He didn't really lose all those fights though, did he...

Didn't he????

Reminds me of your Billy Conn article from the other day, Truss. Conn can rarely be mentioned without ' came close to beating Joe Louis ' somewhere in the leading sentence.

Some notable others :

Stanley Ketchel v Jack Johnson

Tommy Gibbons v Dempsey and Tunney

Billy Miske v Dempsey

Trouble with your examples of Spinks and Hearns is that they can both be partly balmed for the way they are remembered. Both are pretty quiet guys that don't go on TV to really shout about how good they were.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Didn't he????

Officially, maybe.

There were some rumours of corruption surrounding the Watts loss and the draw with Vito was "surprising", to say the least.

HumanWindmill wrote:Reminds me of your Billy Conn article from the other day, Truss. Conn can rarely be mentioned without ' came close to beating Joe Louis ' somewhere in the leading sentence.

Some notable others :

Stanley Ketchel v Jack Johnson

Tommy Gibbons v Dempsey and Tunney

Billy Miske v Dempsey

C'mon Windy - pick an example from when someone else in the forum was alive!

oxring wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:Reminds me of your Billy Conn article from the other day, Truss. Conn can rarely be mentioned without ' came close to beating Joe Louis ' somewhere in the leading sentence.

Some notable others :

Stanley Ketchel v Jack Johnson

Tommy Gibbons v Dempsey and Tunney

Billy Miske v Dempsey

C'mon Windy - pick an example from when someone else in the forum was alive!

Windy was alive.

I'll see what I can do, mate.

How about Liston v Ali?

Peter Bonetti is almost exclusively remembered for his fumbling performance against West Germany in the 1970 world cup, yet he was an outstanding goalkeeper second only in the world to Gordon Banks...............................sorry wrong sport!

Atila wrote:

oxring wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:Reminds me of your Billy Conn article from the other day, Truss. Conn can rarely be mentioned without ' came close to beating Joe Louis ' somewhere in the leading sentence.

Some notable others :

Stanley Ketchel v Jack Johnson

Tommy Gibbons v Dempsey and Tunney

Billy Miske v Dempsey

C'mon Windy - pick an example from when someone else in the forum was alive!

Windy was alive.

Don't I wish, Atila.

Would love to have been ringside for any of those.

Atila wrote:

oxring wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:Reminds me of your Billy Conn article from the other day, Truss. Conn can rarely be mentioned without ' came close to beating Joe Louis ' somewhere in the leading sentence.

Some notable others :

Stanley Ketchel v Jack Johnson

Tommy Gibbons v Dempsey and Tunney

Billy Miske v Dempsey

C'mon Windy - pick an example from when someone else in the forum was alive!

Windy was alive.

Just be grateful he didn't cast his mind back to his childhood memories of Goliath only being known for his controversial loss to David.

Ketchel yes.....Distinguished top 10 middle who is best remembered for leaving his teeth on Jack's glove!!!!!

Bob wrote:Just be grateful he didn't cast his mind back to his childhood memories of Goliath only being known for his controversial loss to David.

David caught Goliath cold. I note he never offered him the rematch...

Evening, Bob.

Still razor sharp, I'm pleased to see.

Just be grateful he's got rid of the pink dress..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Just be grateful he's got rid of the pink dress..

So that was you going through my bin then...

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Ketchel yes.....Distinguished top 10 middle who is best remembered for leaving his teeth on Jack's glove!!!!!

What's perhaps more surprising is the ones whose losses get forgotten.

I mean - Duran's later career - above WW - is filled with losses amidst monstrously heroic performances against bigger men. I mean - we never hate on Duran for losing to Joppy do we?

Dick Tiger comes immediately to mind, one of the great middleweights however soon as I mention his name I presume all of you including myself thinks of that chilling left hook from Bob Foster.

Recent times Felix Trinidad was a super fighter yet we all remember the schooling Bernard Hopkins gave him.

We don't stick it to Ali over Berbick and Holmes.....Duran was forgiven for Leonard 2 though and Hearns..probably because he had a decent career before and after...

roberto tended to be teflon man..good luck to him..

I think of Tiger as a distinguished middle who was one of the few to win the 175 pound title...Foster was one of the two top 175ers of alltime so the loss isn't really that damaging..as Tiger wasn't a natural 175er..

Think Tiger escapes the ignominy of this list..in my opinion.

Maybe Meldrick Taylor against Chavez. Wasn't a great but seems to be all he's remembered for.

I agree Truss but as you made a point about Spinks in you article, I think Tiger suffers a similar but less severe damning.

Can't believe no one has mentioned Curry against you know who.

I think you're right Galveston......Think the controversy also makes it so...

Fact remains he was a good Ibf 140 man who went on to win a portion of welter pie.....

My Grandad was a great Boxing fan and his favorite was Paul Pender..he also had soft spot for Fullmer who gave full value.....

He always thought Tiger over-achieved at middle...always moaning about a Fullmer fight that i think was drawn against tiger!!!

Also remember him saying he thought him too small for 175 and that the Torres decision was controversial...

Certainly a great but not sure if losing to Foster was really that damaging apart from the fact he was absolutely slammed..

Not sure Fullmer is remembered for the Robbo left.....so not sure Tiger is either for his canvas swim..

But you know it's all about opinions..

Obvious choice as a Welshman would be Tommy Farr.

However - Don Cockell is pretty much only remembered for getting smashed around the ring and then getting up for more punishment by Marciano.

Tommy Farr is sullied by Louis??????

Jeez he dined out on it for years apparently..

Oxy you are way off..

I think José Napoles would be a decent shout; a top five Welterweight of all time for me, along with Robinson, Armstrong, Ray Leonard and Gavilan - that's how highly I rate him. But I think he's often remembered on these shores for being the losing party in one of the great nights for British boxing when Stracey shocked him (and everyone else) to take his 147 lb title, and internationally his exploits at Welterweight are sometimes seen as secondary to the fact that he took an absolute hiding off Monzon in a Middleweight title bid. Considering that he was, in reality, not much more than a natural Lightweight himself, that's a massive shame.

I can't refute that chris as I always saw Napoles as a great welterweight champ like you...but obviously Stracey being British gives you guys a different perspective..perhaps..

Can't say Stracey changes/changed my perspective..now or before..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Tommy Farr is sullied by Louis??????

Jeez he dined out on it for years apparently..

Oxy you are way off..

Apologies for the lack of clarity - I meant great boxers that are only remembered for their defeats. Farr and Cockell were actually good boxers in their own right - and are remembered more for the brave but failing efforts against Louis and Marciano.

For greats sullied but forgiven by losses - I'd throw out Braddock - who has more defeats and NCs than you can shake a stick at. However - is remembered for the famous run, the Baer win and the brave effort against Louis.

I was kind of suggesting losing to Louis made his British Boxing legacy bigger...(The manner of it)

rather than detracted from it..

and Braddock wasn't great...for me anyway..

Everything is open to interpretation though..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:I was kind of suggesting losing to Louis made his British Boxing legacy bigger...(The manner of it)

I absolutely agree. I misinterpreted the title; apologies.

Braddock not a great? Surely you jest sir.

Beat all the HW contenders of his day, before running into arguably the greatest of all - and still putting him on the deck...

You honestly think Braddock was great???

Yes.

Emotion has to have a say in deciding greatness.

Otherwise why is Barry McGuigan in the hall of fame; and universally respected?

The guy was a hero to millions and has one of the most inspiring storylines in the history of boxing.

AND he beat all of the HW contenders available in a short period.

I don't believe he is great enough to qualify for the 606v2 hall of fame, however.

You've lost me ???????

Bruno was a hero to lot's of Brits.....Is he great??

The guy was a journeyman who beat a clowning Baer in a stinker..

Hence he was the biggest underdog in history..bar Douglas..

James J Jeffries is among the greatest of all the heavyweight champions but his name usually comes up as the butt of "the down trodden black champion giving the white opressor a hiding" story.

I thought of him but then I see some guys have him in their top 8 heavy list and wonder if it's the case...

Think most realise he was a shell when he got the slap...

but hey maybe they don't..as I say it's open to interpretation..

I guess the fans who judge Jeffries by his only loss are the same ones who judge Tyson by his Lewis loss.

Maybe you're right....

Lennox Lewis pretty much beat everyone in front of him but will nearly always be remembered for being sparked by McCall & Rahman, not for his better performances such as Golota & Ruddock.

88Chris05 wrote:I think José Napoles would be a decent shout; a top five Welterweight of all time for me, along with Robinson, Armstrong, Ray Leonard and Gavilan - that's how highly I rate him. But I think he's often remembered on these shores for being the losing party in one of the great nights for British boxing when Stracey shocked him (and everyone else) to take his 147 lb title, and internationally his exploits at Welterweight are sometimes seen as secondary to the fact that he took an absolute hiding off Monzon in a Middleweight title bid. Considering that he was, in reality, not much more than a natural Lightweight himself, that's a massive shame.

One of my favourite fights of all time that as well, Chris absolute classic.

HumanWindmill wrote:Reminds me of your Billy Conn article from the other day, Truss. Conn can rarely be mentioned without ' came close to beating Joe Louis ' somewhere in the leading sentence.

Some notable others :

Stanley Ketchel v Jack Johnson

Tommy Gibbons v Dempsey and Tunney

Billy Miske v Dempsey

Gibbons is a great shout Windy. I've actually seen him referred to as an 'also-ran' in the past... Only remembered for those fights.

Carpentier as well maybe?