ATP World Tour Finals 2011, London Calling

First topic message reminder :

Here we go again!

Final tournament for the best 8 of 2011: Djokovic, Nadal, Murray, Federer, Ferrer, Berdych, Tsonga, Fish.


Some call it the 5th slam, some see it as an exhibiton, as for me, it presents as a super opportunity to expereience some more tennis thrill before the Christmas off-season, to see, hopefully some good matches and the legends of the game, LIVE!!!!

This time last year, the weather was awful, tube drivers were striking, 606v2 didn't exist, I had a near-death experience, and Nole managed to put TWO lenses in one eye and was considered by most to be a one slam wonder....


Haven't things changed in the meantime ?

So, I'm taking this last opportunity of 2011 to:

1) watch tennis in GMT time-zone and not have to wear massive bags under my eyes every morning
2) see a civilized scenario of 2 matches a day (must say a perfect portion!)
3) enjoy seeing those matches in the packed O2 arena every day for every match


And because one never knows what another day may bring, who may or may not be in London this time next year, because above all we all love tennis, let's enjoy the last stop of this 2011 quirky, cosy tennis ride, let the WTF commence


Order of play for Sunday, 18th of November 2011:

http://www.atpworldtour.com/Finals/2011.aspx


P.S.

There will be a few people form this forum going to O2 next week. Please find a bit of time to give us your first-hand impressions and perhaps photos and personal anecdotes.

God willing, I'll be there on Sunday and Monday evening sessions.

Wow, I find it amazing how people are so prepared to look for excuses for both Novak and Nadal.

They're not fit
They're mentally fatigued.
And the best of all.. they're not bothered.

Or for Nadal.. he's more concerned about the DC. Yeah right, the DC that he's already won, what 3 times? I think Nadal would give up the DC in a heartbeat in exchange for the Masters Cup - the one big title he still hasn't won. Anyway, how much preparation does he need to beat Argentina on clay, in Spain? I remember him thrashing the French just two months ago with absolutely zero prep.

Let's not forget Rafa just had a six week break, that's longer than the break at the end of the season. Infact he's played very little since Wimbledon. The same can be said for Novak.

I wonder how Federer managed to sweep 3 slams and the WTF (when most of the Masters events and the WTF final matches were bo5) playing 80-100 matches per year on each occasion, on three seperate occasions?

And please don't start with the stomach bug excuses. Mild food poisoning (and it must have been mild for him to take to the court) is not like a muscle strain. Usually it clears up once you've puked out the offending meal.

Novak too, is moving and serving just fine.

Perhaps the likes of Ferrer deserve a little bit of credit for once... now there's a thought.

emancipator -

I don;t think Spain will have it easy on clay v Delpo and Nalbandian.

Tenez wrote:I don;t think Spain will have it easy on clay v Delpo and Nalbandian.

I agree.. I was just annoyed.

The point is that it will be a tough match regardless of what Rafa does in preparation and Rafa proved in the last tie that he doesn't need a lot of prep to hit his stride on clay. There is now way that he would be more concerned about the DC than the WTF. After all he did all his practice during this break on indoor HC's.

Why does everyone believes Tipsy will hand the match to Djoko? Typsy can still qualify if he wins and Ferrer too. Ferrer wants to avoid Federer so he'll try hard to beat Berdy.
Am i wrong?

Tenez wrote:

lydian wrote: Both he and Nadal have pushed each other to limits...both look pretty spent. Time for a break.

I am not sure how a match finished 2 and a half months ago can still weight in the legs of those players. Federer also played all slams nearly as far as those 2 plus he played 10 more matches than them roughly in teh last month.

To me fatigue, be it physical or mental, is not the reason to explain the poor display of the top 2.

To be fair to Nole, he didn't practise for 4 full weeks due to the nature of his injury. I don't think he played that badly tonight, he was really tuning in his shots. Ferrer played out of his skin and is obviously in the form of his life. Nole wasn't tanking that match, that's for sure.

Nadal, has less excuse, although he has the right to feel spent. We don't know what really goes on behind the scenes.
this is obviously 5 minutes of Federer's glory this year, I'm happy for his tennis display and for his fans (the nice ones )

There is certainly something wrong going on with the physique and/or motivation of those top players.

We have Spring Nadal and Fall Nadal and now Djoko 2010 in 2011....some say we even have Federer 2006 in 2011!

Very confusing all that.

gallery play wrote:Why does everyone believes Tipsy will hand the match to Djoko? Typsy can still qualify if he wins and Ferrer too. Ferrer wants to avoid Federer so he'll try hard to beat Berdy.
Am i wrong?

This combinations make me dizzy, as if everything is possible. Is there any chance of me qualifying ?

gallery play wrote:Why does everyone believes Tipsy will hand the match to Djoko? Typsy can still qualify if he wins and Ferrer too. Ferrer wants to avoid Federer so he'll try hard to beat Berdy.
Am i wrong?

Just that Tsip fell badly today on match point and he might not be 100% for Friday.

Tenez wrote:There is certainly something wrong going on with the physique and/or motivation of those top players.

We have Spring Nadal and Fall Nadal and now Djoko 2010 in 2011....some say we even have Federer 2006 in 2011!

Very confusing all that.

Nole had a proper injury. You can't dismiss that. Without that injury he'd be winning WTF no problem.

noleisthebest wrote:

Tenez wrote:There is certainly something wrong going on with the physique and/or motivation of those top players.

We have Spring Nadal and Fall Nadal and now Djoko 2010 in 2011....some say we even have Federer 2006 in 2011!

Very confusing all that.

Nole had a proper injury. You can't dismiss that. Without that injury he'd be winning WTF no problem.

Of course! WHat was I thinking?

Just kidding....well half kidding...difficult to know nowadays, really.

Tenez wrote:

gallery play wrote:Why does everyone believes Tipsy will hand the match to Djoko? Typsy can still qualify if he wins and Ferrer too. Ferrer wants to avoid Federer so he'll try hard to beat Berdy.
Am i wrong?

Just that Tsip fell badly today on match point and he might not be 100% for Friday.

Ah i see, i missed that match completely.

Well maybe it's better that Djoko will qualify for the semis, we don't want talk about a devaluated WTF

Yet, Djoko's qualification is in Ferrer's hands (as well as Berdych's) I hear...so it's down to Djoko Tsip as much. As you suggest, Djoko may have organised his way out regardless.

I was quite impressed with the interview Nole gave (the one on BBC sport) after losing to Ferrer. He basically just said that he played cr*p, and while he did make a comment about the length of the season, he didn't moan or throw a strop like Federer sometimes does when he loses (and this is coming from a Fed fan!)

Tenez wrote:Just kidding....well half kidding...difficult to know nowadays, really.

It is. Not in this particular case, however. Obviously result of the scorching season and his build, the "death of tennis" trend...
Bad and sad, hope something will change (not really believing it, though).

The way it's going it's not going to get better, unfortunately and I'm sure we'll be looking back on these times with nostalgia.

I really don't blame the players, they are trying what they can with what they've been given. It's the business (which barrystar so well elaborated on in one of his posts under the Injuries.... thread) that 's flogging a close to death horse here...
Anway, look on the bright side, Fed's still hungry and prideful as ever!

Chazfazzer wrote:I was quite impressed with the interview Nole gave (the one on BBC sport) after losing to Ferrer. He basically just said that he played cr*p, and while he did make a comment about the length of the season, he didn't moan or throw a strop like Federer sometimes does when he loses (and this is coming from a Fed fan!)

I'm glad someone's seeing the Special side of Nole

Chazfazzer wrote:I was quite impressed with the interview Nole gave (the one on BBC sport) after losing to Ferrer. He basically just said that he played cr*p, and while he did make a comment about the length of the season, he didn't moan or throw a strop like Federer sometimes does when he loses (and this is coming from a Fed fan!)

It's easy to lose a RR under his own terms than losing a slam semi after holding 2 MPs. When Djoko starts losing those matches then we will see how he reacts.

emancipator wrote:Wow, I find it amazing how people are so prepared to look for excuses for both Novak and Nadal.

They're not fit
They're mentally fatigued.
And the best of all.. they're not bothered.

Or for Nadal.. he's more concerned about the DC. Yeah right, the DC that he's already won, what 3 times? I think Nadal would give up the DC in a heartbeat in exchange for the Masters Cup - the one big title he still hasn't won. Anyway, how much preparation does he need to beat Argentina on clay, in Spain? I remember him thrashing the French just two months ago with absolutely zero prep.

Let's not forget Rafa just had a six week break, that's longer than the break at the end of the season. Infact he's played very little since Wimbledon. The same can be said for Novak.

I wonder how Federer managed to sweep 3 slams and the WTF (when most of the Masters events and the WTF final matches were bo5) playing 80-100 matches per year on each occasion, on three seperate occasions?

And please don't start with the stomach bug excuses. Mild food poisoning (and it must have been mild for him to take to the court) is not like a muscle strain. Usually it clears up once you've puked out the offending meal.

Novak too, is moving and serving just fine.

Perhaps the likes of Ferrer deserve a little bit of credit for once... now there's a thought.

emancipator

Yes - big credit to Ferrer !!

And in fairness to both Novak and Rafa it is, as you say, others who are invariably looking for excuses rather than the players themselves ; neither of whom have said/done anything to imply that they were other than match fit and fully motivated ahead of their respective heavy defeats

As for old Federer always putting in a determined challenge at the WTF, without any surrounding melodrama or apparent sign of fatigue, even though he too arrives here having played a pretty full, demanding 2011 season, and much more so in his peak years ...... your point is well made ! He follows in the footsteps of the likes of Sampras and Lendl by matching their joint record five titles which they too won having competed most years in all the Slams (although admittedly Pete never spent a full two weeks at RG as I recall !).

Sampras and Lendl, along with so many others of their eras, never doubted the status of the WTF or the part it would come to play in their tennis legacy.

ps emancipator .... you omitted to include in the list of excuses the special tactical theory, unique to the RR format of the WTF ("he obviously didn't want to wear himself out with the prospect of a potentially gruelling SF ahead" .... )

Looking at the stats of the Berdych/Tsip match, Tsip was very unlucky to lose a match where he won 12% more points than Berdych. 92 to 81.

David Ferrer looking great so far in the WTF. Blew away Djokovic last night but still think Novak will go through as can't see him falling to Tipsarevic. The other group sees Federer through and looks like he could be joined by Tsonga.

CaledonianCraig wrote:David Ferrer looking great so far in the WTF. Blew away Djokovic last night but still think Novak will go through as can't see him falling to Tipsarevic. The other group sees Federer through and looks like he could be joined by Tsonga.

He did play better than unusual, introduced the concept of attacking into his game, not just pure counter-punching grinding as before. Definitely much better than this time last year.
Nole was a bit out of sorts, not his usual self more execution wise than anything else. I hope he beats Tipsy and gets through to the weekend. I would like to see more of him before the long, long break, (especially in that black outfit)

noleisthebest wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:David Ferrer looking great so far in the WTF. Blew away Djokovic last night but still think Novak will go through as can't see him falling to Tipsarevic. The other group sees Federer through and looks like he could be joined by Tsonga.

He did play better than unusual, introduced the concept of attacking into his game, not just pure counter-punching grinding as before. Definitely much better than this time last year.
Nole was a bit out of sorts, not his usual self more execution wise than anything else. I hope he beats Tipsy and gets through to the weekend. I would like to see more of him before the long, long break, (especially in that black outfit)

And only yesterday I saw you were lamenting on the fact that you will have to watch Ferrer . Change of heart Nitb Times, they are a changin'

I don't usually cheer Greg, but if he kicked Boris in the right leg I would salute that man. Being a tennis fan of Boris, his analysis has me baffled at times.

Tenez wrote:Looking at the stats of the Berdych/Tsip match, Tsip was very unlucky to lose a match where he won 12% more points than Berdych. 92 to 81.

Yes you could say that but he blew it in the 3rd set tie break hitting a relatively easy volley out on match point with Berdych out of position. Then serving a double fault to give Berdych the match point.

unfortunately i find Ferrer's game boring. its just 'Retrieve and Return'. there is nothing else that he has got, no power, no guile, no shotmaking capability.

just retrieve and return till the other guy dies of boredom.

I'm not a big fan of Ferrer's game but he does have one of the best inside out FH's in the game.

His attitude is also exemplary. No melodrama, no fussing, no mind games or annoying rituals. Just gets on with it.

I like Ferrer. Never see him making outlandish statements in the press. The type of guy like emancipator says just gets on with it.

coolpixel wrote:unfortunately i find Ferrer's game boring. its just 'Retrieve and Return'. there is nothing else that he has got, no power, no guile, no shotmaking capability.

just retrieve and return till the other guy dies of boredom.

For someone at 5ft 9in, he makes use of his assets very well and can beat players. He is one of hardest working players on the tour. His style his not glamorous but he has been a steady Top 10 player for several years. He is an excellent clay and HC player, which are very few and far between.

To each his own CP.

Routine opening service game for Federer there.

I think the baker may be busy in this one.

gallery play wrote:Why does everyone believes Tipsy will hand the match to Djoko? Typsy can still qualify if he wins and Ferrer too. Ferrer wants to avoid Federer so he'll try hard to beat Berdy.
Am i wrong?

Unfortunately Tipsarevic is out. In the ATP WTF, 1-2 beats 1-1 or 1-0.

Fish breaks straight back, Fed has probably already made more errors than he did in the whole Nadal match! People talk about Berdych's consistency, but is Fed's even worse? Sure you don't notice it much of the time, as apart from against the very top players even when he plays considerably below his best he still wins...

Fish is approaching this like there's nothing on the line and could nick a set if it goes on a tie break, as usual it depends on Federer's UE count.

Has anyone noticed how the scoreboard is ahead of the rally? by probably 20s? So you know who won the point before the point actually finishes.

Tenez wrote:Has anyone noticed how the scoreboard is ahead of the rally? by probably 20s? So you know who won the point before the point actually finishes.

eh?

Federer has broken again, poor match so far.

LK is now having to go on a lactose free diet. So expect me to make my climb up the rankings in the amateur circuit. Who knows I could be British no.3 next year

or even n°2, shouldn't be too hard. If Boggo can do it, so can LK! The LK for GB Davis Cup team campaign starts now

Poor match so far.

It does MFC

LK for GB!! LK for GB!!

Murray and Djokovic doing the Gluten Free and LK (not by choice) is on the lactose free diet. I shall be leaping around the net like Salmon escaping a hungry bear!

Dare I say it Roger looks like he is enjoying it out there.

well he's already guaranteed to top the group LK, so why not? Fish is playing pants though, can't serve, can't volley and he's unlikely to beat Fed from the back of the court either...

Just looking at the speed gun has Feds 2nd serve speed increased or what bordering 97mph!!

Fish is playing pants though. Net game not going to win against Federer.

That is poor. 4 2nd serves and Mardy can't break. Think it will be his last appearance at these finals.

Did Federer just Moonball a FH???

That was Wilander style written all over it.

Fish has nothing to lose, so he should go for his shots. Instead he is absolutely comatose.

Fish won 18% of points behind his second serve, ouch! stats have credited Fed with just four UEs in that set, think that's a tad generous myself :whislte:

Barry Cowan and Marcus Buckland think Fish isn't playing badily????

Who told them to say that?

Fish isn't playing badly?!?!?!

well that depends on your definition of badly I guess. if I were playing like Fish I'd be delighted, but for a top 8 player it's pretty dreadful.