World Tour Finals

Is this going to be the worst quality one of all time?

No one is going to be in form, bar Murray, who is starting to look tired.

Djokovic - hasn't played well since RG
Murray - trying to be YE no1 must be tiring him out. To win Vienna and Paris will be his last four tournaments won I think.
Stan - is he ever in form, except for at the business end of the odd slam he wins. Nearly lost to The Donald yesterday.
Raonic - lost to Berankis (who lost to Marcus Willis at Wimbledon) this week.
Nishikori - probably in the next best form after Murray.
Monfils - Injured. Last seen losing to Gastao Elias.
Thiem - hasn't played well since before Wimbledon. Burn out/injury. Lost to Troicki in his home tournament.
Berdych - lost to Basilashvili this week.

Goffin - lost early, although to Delpo, this week.
Cilic - probably a bit far back.

I've got tickets too!

Cilic still has a great shot to make it I would say - wins over Granollers and probably Stan will put him ahead of Berdych and leave him only needing to match his result in Paris. If he loses to Stan, then he will need at least a QF in Paris and hope Berdych goes out early (not unlikely given recent results).

I'd actually put a small bet on Cilic (if he makes it) if I was a betting man or Nish, but the top 2 will be still hard to beat

Monfils been there, who generally turns up to play properly at such few events (for his talent) that he makes Gasquet and Tsonga look the most stable players ever. Of course if he does turn up then that will be great news - if he doesn't as seems likely then it will be dreadful watching

We've certainly got a motley crue and lets be honest, the tennis has mostly been distinctly average since the French

Having said that, the latter stages of both The Olympics and US Open, were entertaining - but not just for the Tennis (i.e. Monfils SF 'performance' at the latter )

Cilic would certainly shake things up a bit. Although I remember watching him get stuffed by Stan there the year he won the USO.

I think Murray should be favourite at the moment, with Djokovic a close second given his record there in recent years. Cilic and/or Nishikori are not without a chance though.

Djokovic seems there for the taking by a good player playing solidly. Murray may run out of steam.

Think Wawrinka has a strong chance this year. Been a semi finalist the past 3 years losing to Djokovic in 2013 and Federer in 2014 (Mirkagate) and 2015. The round robin stage suits him as he can have one of his flaky days (e.g. Nadal in 2015) and still qualify by winning his other two matches. Not overawed by either Djokovic or Murray as he knows if playing at his best he can beat them.

Advanced ticket sales for WTF have apparently been very high - despite indications a good while ago that the field would be somewhat weakened this year.

I went most or all years from c2009 to c2013 and glad I did, it was a good period to be watching tennis.

It's never been Murray's strongest event, and, while Djokovic has a great record there, that is due to him being a great player and able to win at any hard court event, rather than because he is particularly suited to indoor. However, if the year end no 1 ranking is in play, they could both have a little extra motivation.

It could be an opportunity for someone.

I'd v. much like to see Murray get to #1 over the coming weeks or months - if he misses out now but keeps close he's got a decent chance to make up points over Feb-March when he was poor last year - but my guess is he's going to run out of energy before this season's up, and that he'll need to do it with a win this week if he can.

I see two potential scenarios in Paris - either of which (or indeed both of which ??) could be of material significance wrt ranking points  :

-  Murray gradually runs out of steam after a couple of rounds

-  Djokovic finds it difficult to hit good form after his lengthy lay-off

lags72 wrote:I see two potential scenarios in Paris - either of which (or indeed both of which ??) could be of material significance wrt ranking points  :

-  Murray gradually runs out of steam after a couple of rounds

-  Djokovic finds it difficult to hit good form after his lengthy lay-off

There is that other thread for Paris.

I've just bought tickets today, and crossing my fingers on who I get to see play. Would be v happy to watch Murray, Wawrinka or Thiem, fairly happy to see Djokovic, Monfils or Nishikori, but would rather miss Raonic or Cilic. Doubles line-up looks pretty good this year.

Having bought (v pricey!) tickets I hope this year isn't as bad as some fear. I've been twice before in 2009, when I was lucky enough to see Federer v Del Potro and 2010, when I saw a good quality Nadal v Roddick encounter. Having just seen it on TV since then I seem to recall there being a couple of recent years where there were a lot of one-sided matches (and a withdrawal?) - here's hoping we can avoid that this year.

There's now a week between Paris and the WTF and none of the main contenders are focussed on the Davis Cup final (Cilic may be if he starts badly). If number 1 is also still on the line, it could be a good event.

MrInvisible wrote:I've just bought tickets today, and crossing my fingers on who I get to see play. Would be v happy to watch Murray, Wawrinka or Thiem, fairly happy to see Djokovic, Monfils or Nishikori, but would rather miss Raonic or Cilic.  Doubles line-up looks pretty good this year.

Having bought (v pricey!) tickets I hope this year isn't as bad as some fear.  I've been twice before in 2009, when I was lucky enough to see Federer v Del Potro and 2010, when I saw a good quality Nadal v Roddick encounter.  Having just seen it on TV since then I seem to recall there being a couple of recent years where there were a lot of one-sided matches (and a withdrawal?) - here's hoping we can avoid that this year.

I went last year and saw Stan tank against Rafa. Also one year I saw Stan beat Berdych 1&1 and then Djokovic beat Cilic 1&1. Saw a good Murray v Del Potro match is 2009 though.

I am hoping to see Thiem this year. Have seen all of the others live at some point and I am a fan of Thiem.

MrInvisible wrote:I've been twice before in 2009, when I was lucky enough to see Federer v Del Potro and 2010, when I saw a good quality Nadal v Roddick encounter.  

I was at Nadal-Roddick in 2010 , exciting match, close, good atmosphere.

HenmanBill, yes Nadal v Roddick was a great match, good contrast in styles between the players. I remember Roddick out of the blocks quick in the match, really bossing the points, but Nadal slowly but surely working his way into the match and coming up with some of his great trademark turning defence into attack shots.

Back to this year, I was rooting for Goffin to beat Cilic today as the Belgian is a great shotmaker and would have been a great addition for the tournament. Not so excited about Cilic coming through instead - I'm crossing my fingers I don't end up watching a Cilic v Raonic snoozefest for the session I've booked!

Yes, I suspect even the very full - and normally very enthusiastic - O2 arena crowd might struggle to get too excited about a Cilic v Raonic encounter........

Ideal Group:
Murray - he'll get a massive reception for his recent achievement.
Stan - not Raonic basically.
Monfils - if he's on entertaining form. Plus I've not seen him live before.
Thiem - I like him, even though Cilic will provide a better test for whoever he's playing. Also never seen him live before.

For the singles match I'm seeing, the most desirable match would be Murray vs Wawrinka, but would be happy with any match, provided its not Raonic or Cilic! Monfils is the biggest unknown - if he turns up uninjured in right frame of mind he'll be a joy to watch, but if he's in one of his junk-ball passive moods, it could be painful to watch.

Presumably Berdych travels there as the 'substitute' player in case anyone gets injured?

I would guess both Berdych and Goffin will go - given questions over both Monfils and Raonic.

Draw for the 02 has been made. Really tough for Murray as he gets to play Stan, Nishi and Cilic, while Djoko gets the rest, including two (Raonic and Monfils) who may not even be fit to play.

I am going on Wednesday. So will see Murray v Stan/Nishikori. Can't be too upset at that, although I would have like to have seen Thiem.

Djokovic must be laughing. Thiem is in horrific form and Monfils and Raonic may be injured.

Djoko could end up playing the guys ranked 10th and 11th in the world.

Lol at that draw. Murray has the tough option in all three pots. I'd actually regard those three guys as 3, 4 and 5 in the world on current form and both Stan and Kei beat him last time they played on the slow O2 courts. Absolute group of death. Even if he does get through that lot, it will take a huge amount out of him.

In contrast, Djokovic has two injured players and Thiem who isn't currently playing top 50 level. He should clean all those matches up swiftly.

Novak now gone huge favourite for YE1.

Player Ranking:
Group A.
Number 1 (Murray), 3 (Wawrinka), 5(Nishikori), 7 (Cilic)

Group B
Number 2 (Djokovic), 4 (Milos Raonic), 6(Gael Monfils ), 9 (Dominic Thiem)

That seems a weird drawer. Is it always like that - with the top ranked player getting the tougher opponents.

Head to Heads:
Group B Djokovic
Djokovic v Raonic: 7 - 0
Djokovic v Monfils: 13 - 0
Djokovic v Thiem: 3 - 0
Total: 23 wins No loses

Group A Murray
Murray v Wawrinka: 9 - 7
Murray v Nishikori: 7 - 2
Murray v Cilic: 11 - 3
Total: 27 wins 12 loses

It's random apart from numbers one and two being kept apart. Murray really has been given a difficult time.

If I was to rank in order of favourites for the tournament I would say:
Murray
Djokovic
Wawrinka
Cilic
Nishikori
Raonic
Monfils
Thiem.

Think Raonic deserves his ranking, but isn't playing like it at the moment.

Still think Murray will be YE1. Djokovic should get out of his group, but will probably lose the semi final. By contrast, Murray should win his group and then have a relatively easy semi final.

sirfredperry wrote:It's random apart from numbers one and two being kept apart. Murray really has been given a difficult time.

3&4, 5&6 and 7&8 are kept apart too.

What is this Mcenroe/Lendl group nonsense, honestly, happy with 1/2, A/B, blue/red but that's just silly.

I don't think Murray will be beating players 6-4 6-2, not here, I think he is going to do well, but probably winning matches with either a deciding set or a tiebreak and hoping that no-one hits a purple patch at a key moment.

Murray the favorite to me, unless he has an emotional letdown now that he reached #1.  But even so, nobody else has been playing very well as of late.

I wonder how next year will work out.  Is Djokovic going to recover or is his decline terminal?  It all happened so quickly, and I do not quite understand why.  He had some injury issues - were they worse than advertised?  Or is something else going on?

summerblues wrote:Murray the favorite to me, unless he has an emotional letdown now that he reached #1.  But even so, nobody else has been playing very well as of late.

I wonder how next year will work out.  Is Djokovic going to recover or is his decline terminal?  It all happened so quickly, and I do not quite understand why.  He had some injury issues - were they worse than advertised?  Or is something else going on?

Seems clear to me that it is motivational issues. He strived for so long to win the French Open and he has said himself that after the euphoria died down after winning it he felt flat and was asking himself now what? He then suffered surprising losses in the 3rd Round at Wimbledon and 1st Round at the Olympics and in recent months he has been quoted as saying he wanted to get back to enjoying his tennis. All sounds like lack of motivation to me.

Mix of injury, motivational issues and personal life distractions I suspect.

Suggestions that the court is playing fast. In general, that suits Murray but it probably makes the Cilic match a real 50-50, especially first match.

Djok to serve for it.

A very competitive first set in the Djoko match followed by something of a meltdown from Thiem. The Austrian appears to have bags of talent and some great strokes but from the evidence of today he seems to lack a bit of nous.
Djoko, to me, still looked a little off his best, but did enough.

A handy win for Djokovic but question marks remain as Thiem evidently is playing with his own issues at the moment.

So likeable is the Djoker...
https://twitter.com/Mike_Dickson_DM/status/797846285881638912

A rumour I heard was that Djokovic was playing away with a famous actress and his wife found out during Wimbledon. These are allegedly his 'personal problems'

Horrible performance by Stan the Man as he loses to Nishi in straight sets. May be Murray's group not so difficut now.

I had the misfortune of watching the Wawrinka Nishikori match live. Wawrinka was absolutely horrible, and Nishikori not particularly impressive - he just had to keep the ball going in until Stan made an error. That's the second year in a row I've seen Stan live at the O2 and he's been poor - last year's match with Federer was similarly one-sided. It seems that the 02 really doesn't bring out the best in him (or many of the players, for that matter).

I wouldn't blame Stan's poor performances on the 02. It is the nature of the man. Sure Stan has three slams but his consistency is poor for a triple slam slam winner. There is no middle ground with Stan it seems. You either infrequently (for him) get everything or too frequently get very little hence he only has 15 titles in his career and not that many slam finals and semis appearances.

Was it a tank from Stan? I saw him play Rafa last year and he certainly tanked from the end of the first set. They mentioned him not taking much time between points, think this is him just trying to get it over with ASAP. Also didn't do interviews after the match?

Get the feeling Murray hasn't arrived mentally yet, still leading 5-2.

Bit of a missed opportunity for Cilic

Chazfazzer, I was there too - Wawrinka made so many unforced errors, and only one backhand winner in the whole match tells the story. However, I think you're not being too generous to Nishikori there - I was v impressed with him, particularly in the 1st set. Good solid groundstrokes, a few forehand winners and impressed when he went to the net. Also as an aside, he did some great Hawkeye challenges! Yes, he was up against a v poor Wawrinka but you can only beat what's in front of you, and on the rare occasions when he looked under threat, he raised his game when it mattered.

Nishikori is not the favourite for the tournament, but does look a good bet to get to get out of the group stage, or even reach final (if he can avoid Djokovic in semis).

My goodness that was a horrendous match between cilic and Murray. First match of the finals that I have seen, can surely only get better or I will have the TV off for the coming week! Awful stuff

Was a bit weird, Murray for the first set and a half was pretty awful but somehow ahead, probably as much through mental toughness at anything. Thought he played well in the last 20 minutes or so to be fair, started finding his range and timing, and looked more like himself. Maybe just took him a while to get used to the court, maybe the fatigue coming in meant he took a while longer to get going, I don't know.

Cilic was pretty poor throughout.

Overall it's not been a great start to the tournament, but then the first rounds of the WTF rarely are all that good. Hope it picks up from here.

The WTF probably since 2012 has been a dire event, one sided thrashings, most players nursing injuries on incredibly slow courts makes it a tough watch. Good second set from Murray, 1st serve wasnt great but his backhand very good at the end.

MrInvisible I think you're right re. Nishikori; I was probably being a bit unfair. I thought he played passably; made a few more errors than I am used to seeing from him, but served reasonably well and was pretty good at the net. As you say, Wawrinka was just so bad that Nishikori never really had to get out of first gear. Amazing to think it's the same player that defeated Djokovic in the US Open final a few months back.

Stan's in his usual 'in between' slam trough. Which of course will result in him lifting the Aussie Open