Home-based selection
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Home-based selection
Sounds like something you cook up after coming home from a game. Recently, Victor Matfield said that South Africa should try to copy NZ´s policy of selecting players only who commit to the home union. A surprising comment as he had a wee dabble with Toulon.
I often hear posters say that NZ should be able to select as well from players overseas. Nick Evans would have been undoubtedly a welcome addition to the squad after going as far down to fourth choice in the pecking order at that time. Carl Hayman is another one that is talked about. I guess there is the perception that players who head north are in the twilight of their careers or weren´t good enough in the first place. Nick Evans doesn´t fall into this category but he wasn´t eligible for selection. That had nothing to do with the fact that players from the NH can´t handle the pace of SH rugby. Wales, for example, showed that the NH can foot it with the best. The real reason why players aren´t eligible is you have to have some sort of incentive to stay in NZ where the money simply doesn´t compete with Japan or Europe. That incentive is the lure of the national jersey. You head overseas, well good luck to you but you turn your back on the chance to play for your country which still holds a great deal of appeal to many players in NZ.
The reason is also not to keep just the elite of NZ rugby in NZ. If you allowed anyone to head overseas and be eligible for national selection, then you´d get everyone doing it. Not just the elite but also the second and third-tier players. NZ has a conveyor belt of talent not just because of the top players and the experience they rub off onto the players coming through the ranks. Indeed most of the top ABs don´t play in the National Championship anymore and even Super Rugby sees a lot of resting of the top players. But you get a player who is second-tier and still with aspirations of becoming an AB and they have a huge impact on the players coming through.
This is true for a country as small as NZ. What do the SA posters make of Matfield´s comments. Does playing in Europe affect a player with Bok aspirations or players who are already Springboks? England had players moving to France and Jamie Haskell is on sabbatical with the Highlanders. Should they be welcomed back with open arms into the national squad? Or once you burn those bridges, there should be no going back? Scotland seems to be a nation that bucks the trend. It seems to be in their interests to send players outside of Scotland to play in Europe because there is not much in the way of club rugby and the European club and international calendar are compatible. Is England in the same boat? Does it make a difference if the players are moving in between hemispheres. If you look at Brazil in football, their homegrown talent plays for clubs all over the world. Good for the players in terms of their bank accounts but not so good for the team. Although they have won the most World Cups, you get the feeling they could´ve won a lot more if the players were centrally contracted and the clubs cared more for the national selection than their own interests.
What are your thoughts?
I often hear posters say that NZ should be able to select as well from players overseas. Nick Evans would have been undoubtedly a welcome addition to the squad after going as far down to fourth choice in the pecking order at that time. Carl Hayman is another one that is talked about. I guess there is the perception that players who head north are in the twilight of their careers or weren´t good enough in the first place. Nick Evans doesn´t fall into this category but he wasn´t eligible for selection. That had nothing to do with the fact that players from the NH can´t handle the pace of SH rugby. Wales, for example, showed that the NH can foot it with the best. The real reason why players aren´t eligible is you have to have some sort of incentive to stay in NZ where the money simply doesn´t compete with Japan or Europe. That incentive is the lure of the national jersey. You head overseas, well good luck to you but you turn your back on the chance to play for your country which still holds a great deal of appeal to many players in NZ.
The reason is also not to keep just the elite of NZ rugby in NZ. If you allowed anyone to head overseas and be eligible for national selection, then you´d get everyone doing it. Not just the elite but also the second and third-tier players. NZ has a conveyor belt of talent not just because of the top players and the experience they rub off onto the players coming through the ranks. Indeed most of the top ABs don´t play in the National Championship anymore and even Super Rugby sees a lot of resting of the top players. But you get a player who is second-tier and still with aspirations of becoming an AB and they have a huge impact on the players coming through.
This is true for a country as small as NZ. What do the SA posters make of Matfield´s comments. Does playing in Europe affect a player with Bok aspirations or players who are already Springboks? England had players moving to France and Jamie Haskell is on sabbatical with the Highlanders. Should they be welcomed back with open arms into the national squad? Or once you burn those bridges, there should be no going back? Scotland seems to be a nation that bucks the trend. It seems to be in their interests to send players outside of Scotland to play in Europe because there is not much in the way of club rugby and the European club and international calendar are compatible. Is England in the same boat? Does it make a difference if the players are moving in between hemispheres. If you look at Brazil in football, their homegrown talent plays for clubs all over the world. Good for the players in terms of their bank accounts but not so good for the team. Although they have won the most World Cups, you get the feeling they could´ve won a lot more if the players were centrally contracted and the clubs cared more for the national selection than their own interests.
What are your thoughts?
kiakahaaotearoa- Posts : 8287
Join date : 2011-05-10
Location : Madrid
Re: Home-based selection
I thought South Africa didn't pick players who ply their trade outside South Africa.
Still baffled that South Africa never considered Schalk Brits at hooker.
I personally think you should pick the best available.
Unfortunately where England is concerned that doesn't happen all the time.
Is it a coincidence that arguably Scotland's best and most consistent performer Kelly Brown plays outside Scotland? I don't think so.
The problem is when players playing in foreign countries are picked when they shouldn't be.
Still baffled that South Africa never considered Schalk Brits at hooker.
I personally think you should pick the best available.
Unfortunately where England is concerned that doesn't happen all the time.
Is it a coincidence that arguably Scotland's best and most consistent performer Kelly Brown plays outside Scotland? I don't think so.
The problem is when players playing in foreign countries are picked when they shouldn't be.
beshocked- Posts : 14849
Join date : 2011-03-08
Re: Home-based selection
I feel if like Haskell/Cipriani you are playing so far away it makes selection difficult.
After that for England it comes down to player release. If a player is in Europe, has a contract that means they are available for all squad selections then I feel they should be eligible for selection. With the limited number of teams in each country in the Pro12 - this really means France. I just feel that sometimes a player can develop more being immersed in a different culture - which can only benefit the national team.
As to Scotland - with just two pro sides they have to encourage players to look elsewhere to play.
After that for England it comes down to player release. If a player is in Europe, has a contract that means they are available for all squad selections then I feel they should be eligible for selection. With the limited number of teams in each country in the Pro12 - this really means France. I just feel that sometimes a player can develop more being immersed in a different culture - which can only benefit the national team.
As to Scotland - with just two pro sides they have to encourage players to look elsewhere to play.
LondonTiger- Moderator
- Posts : 23485
Join date : 2011-02-10
Re: Home-based selection
Well they do beshocked. Not that it happens on a large scale but now another World Cup isn´t for another four years there may be more.
Ireland is another team with players like Tommy Bowe playing for Ospreys. I think it´s more of a problem between hemispheres. Samoa or Argentina for example have players spread all over the world. Only when they have time to prepare (pretty much the World Cup and even then) can they make a real showing. All too often it´s hurried preparation.
As for foreign players. by all means change the residency laws. But if you say you should pick your best available squad and certain players qualify then why shouldn´t they be picked?
Ireland is another team with players like Tommy Bowe playing for Ospreys. I think it´s more of a problem between hemispheres. Samoa or Argentina for example have players spread all over the world. Only when they have time to prepare (pretty much the World Cup and even then) can they make a real showing. All too often it´s hurried preparation.
As for foreign players. by all means change the residency laws. But if you say you should pick your best available squad and certain players qualify then why shouldn´t they be picked?
kiakahaaotearoa- Posts : 8287
Join date : 2011-05-10
Location : Madrid
Re: Home-based selection
But Beshocked,
Does Brits fit the bill as a big powerful guy like a Bismark or Smith etc which SA tend to like rather than a more athletic skillful mobile player...
Does Brits fit the bill as a big powerful guy like a Bismark or Smith etc which SA tend to like rather than a more athletic skillful mobile player...
Geordie- Posts : 28849
Join date : 2011-03-31
Location : Newcastle
Re: Home-based selection
Kiakahaaotearoa in my opinion if you are good enough.....
Obviously ideally having a good attitude helps.
Haskell and Cipriani aren't the best available.
I agree if it's not large scale it's fine.
In regards to Scotland a lot ply their trade in the AP so it's not as if they are on the other side of the world.
As LondonTiger says sometimes a different culture is needed to flourish as a player. It broadens one's horizons.
Playing in England certainly hasn't quenched Kelly Brown's hunger to succeed for Saracens and Scotland.
Geordiefalcon in my opinion Brits is too good a player to not be involved somewhere.
Obviously ideally having a good attitude helps.
Haskell and Cipriani aren't the best available.
I agree if it's not large scale it's fine.
In regards to Scotland a lot ply their trade in the AP so it's not as if they are on the other side of the world.
As LondonTiger says sometimes a different culture is needed to flourish as a player. It broadens one's horizons.
Playing in England certainly hasn't quenched Kelly Brown's hunger to succeed for Saracens and Scotland.
Geordiefalcon in my opinion Brits is too good a player to not be involved somewhere.
beshocked- Posts : 14849
Join date : 2011-03-08
Re: Home-based selection
I would welcome a home based selection policy for Ireland. I think NZ do a very good job of it.
Re: Home-based selection
I think it works in Europe because the distances are not great. Whilst SA is in the same time zone, there´s a big difference to picking players who have just finished a long club season or just starting one.
There are too many games already. If a player is continuing the season between hemispheres there is very little recovery time. Add to that missing out on combinations with other test players and picking the best becomes a lot more difficult to judge.
There are too many games already. If a player is continuing the season between hemispheres there is very little recovery time. Add to that missing out on combinations with other test players and picking the best becomes a lot more difficult to judge.
kiakahaaotearoa- Posts : 8287
Join date : 2011-05-10
Location : Madrid
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