Selection Crisis Rocks Home Nations

A crisis of sorts has befallen the national squads of the home nations.

With the Lions tour just around the corner, astute selections will be more vital than ever.

But through the course of the AIs we have learned that the NH unions lack depth in the selection area.

Undoubtably top 4 teams, both Wales and England have apparently fielded the wrong selections. Wales seem the worst offenders having failed to select the correct starting team in what would otherwise have been an easy win over Argentina, and then repeated the gaff by selecting the wrong team for what should have been the easy victory over Samoa.

England, after romping home against Fiji (who apparently suffer from more serious skills, composure, coaching, discipline and tactical issues) then spectacularly selected the wrong team in what should have been a forwards led humiliation of the depleted Australia.

In comparison to their SH counterparts, this obvious lack of selection talent is hampering the home nations teams, and they must address the weakness immediately if they hope to be serious contenders in 2015.

Has the development of talented selectors eluded the national squads? perhaps those with an eye for positional subtleties are excluded from the youth development process or already developed selectors are tempted into football, cricket or boxing? maybe they are lost altogether to the home nations and go off-shore to select for high profile French clubs? or leave for a better life in Australasia, or South Africa?

Whatever is happening, the RFU and WRU, not to mention Declan Kidney need to immediately put in place measures to ensure that their are quality selectors available to ensure the correct players are on the field and as soon as possible.

anotherworldofpain wrote:
England, after romping home against Fiji (who apparently suffer from more serious skills, composure, coaching, discipline and tactical issues) then spectacularly selected the wrong team in what should have been a forwards led humiliation of the depleted Australia.

Don't agree with that. A few selections are up for discussion but that wasn't a spectacularly wrong selection at all.

Strange post.

Is this about the selection practices of England and Wales or the Home Nations?

There are no easy victories.

Speaking for England i think we have been dogged by curious selections for many years now....and the EPS has highlighted the need to get it absolutely right...as its very restrictive if we dont.
I will watch with MASSIVE interest in January when the new EPS is announced.

But currently we have a lot of depth of players who are all at the same level...non out and out world class...aside maybe for Cole..who despite a quieter game yesterday i still believe to be a top TH.

Thus every player will have supporters...the back row being an obvious one...some rate Haskell..some think hes a showboater...others see the value of Johnson whilst his detractors see him as lightweight and lacking at this level...
Players like Garvey casue huge debate...some think hes the monster that England are lacking in the engine room...others think hes a decent club SR at best...

Then you have the style issues....all we here now is you must play a wide athletic mobile game...but is this a game that England can comfortably adapt to and play at this level...and if not do we have the current players to play that power forward game anymore....

Lots of things to look at

EPS has never been spot on, its selections have always been there or there abouts but never perfect. Firstly England need to decide what sort of game style they want to play then pick the players that support that, because at the moment it seems to be the other way round with the players dictating the style e.g Manu restricting play out wide due to his lack of willingness to pass, although for Tigers I've always rated his passing skills. In this case simply drop him or put him on the wing so Joseph can come in partnered with Twelvetrees at inside, not great but at they would have the view to spread play

If the home nations teams don't win again this weekend and France do, then should the lions management consider drafting in some helP from the FRU selection team? They seem to have a keen eye for the top British talent over there...

Like who AWOP...From an England perspective , aside from Simon Shaw (and even he is past it) theres noone who Egland are missing who is playing in France?

South Africa and Meyer has been lucky, we have no selection issues as there aren't many still standing.

If you can move, you're in.

Cyril on 606v2 wrote:

anotherworldofpain wrote:
England, after romping home against Fiji (who apparently suffer from more serious skills, composure, coaching, discipline and tactical issues) then spectacularly selected the wrong team in what should have been a forwards led humiliation of the depleted Australia.

Don't agree with that. A few selections are up for discussion but that wasn't a spectacularly wrong selection at all.

Strange post.

Grey Ghost is a strange man though, so its hardly suprising.

I completely agree with the OP. how David Attenborough is overlooked time again for the much vaunted and problematic 'second five eighth' role is beyond me.

Also Selecting Jeremy clarkson as the 'enforcer' to add some much needed physicality seems obvious to even the most casual fan.

Stuart Lancaster and the rest of the selection panel really need to buck their ideas up.

I agree with the OP.

I feel us up in the North have loads to learn off the likes of NewZealand and Australia with selection policy,
the WRU must act now,get down to the pacific islands and raid their players.

With your sensationalist thread names AWOP you should apply for the Western/Daily Fail.

viewtothegym wrote:I agree with the OP.

I feel us up in the North have loads to learn off the likes of NewZealand and Australia with selection policy,
the WRU must act now,get down to the pacific islands and raid their players.

Arent england doing this already?

GeordieFalcon wrote:Like who AWOP...From an England perspective , aside from Simon Shaw (and even he is past it) theres noone who Egland are missing who is playing in France?

Interestingly, does the French Club apparent preference for Welsh players may be the best steer you could have on Lions selection, perhaps?

You never know AWOP

I dont have the numbers...is there more Welsh over there than English at the moment? Thought id be pretty even...

Geordie, we really could do with Steffon Armitage. He's come on massively since he went to France and it's only contractual problems that's keeping him out.

Armitage brothers, Wilkinson, Sheridan, Balshaw for a few off the top of my head. Think the RFUs/Lancasters decision to not choose foerign based players may have something to do with the fact that more haven't jumped for the pay check.

Personally in Englands case I would say it's the opposite of your original post ie lack of selection talent. For a lot of positions there is too much choice and it can be very tempting to move on to the next when players form dips. To get to the very top you need some consistency in selection and game time. To add to that there are a lot of variation in playing styles as well. We need to settle on one and pick the appropriate players.

anotherworldofpain wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Like who AWOP...From an England perspective , aside from Simon Shaw (and even he is past it) theres noone who Egland are missing who is playing in France?

Interestingly, does the French Club apparent preference for Welsh players may be the best steer you could have on Lions selection, perhaps?

One of the form sides in France (Toulon) has a fair few English starters. The Welsh players tend to be spread out among the less successful sides.

Jenkins (good player that he was) doesn't get a look-in with Sheridan there.

Not sure what this has to do with Lions though. Unless you're saying France beating Aus means France-based Welsh players should be in there. Nice try ghostie.

Yes but of the those:

Sheridan: Never rated him anyway...Corbs, Marler, Vunipola...we dont need him.
D.Armitage: Good player but we have as good competition for the FB spot and similar Joseph, Tuilagi, Lowe, Daly etc for the 13 spot.
S.Armitage: Ok theres an argument for him.
Balshaw: Nope
Johnny: Going back there is a negative...we have Flood, Burns who is on fire, Ford etc that we need to bring through.
Simon Shaw - Past it
Kennedy - I rate him as a TOP lineout guy...but thik in Launchbury, Lawes and a few others coming through his time has gone...

7&1/2, they're mostly there to fill up their pension funds so not missed.

GoodinTightSpaces wrote:

viewtothegym wrote:I agree with the OP.

I feel us up in the North have loads to learn off the likes of NewZealand and Australia with selection policy,
the WRU must act now,get down to the pacific islands and raid their players.

Arent england doing this already?

And Wales.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:

GoodinTightSpaces wrote:

viewtothegym wrote:I agree with the OP.

I feel us up in the North have loads to learn off the likes of NewZealand and Australia with selection policy,
the WRU must act now,get down to the pacific islands and raid their players.

Arent england doing this already?

And Wales.

No England are sending teams out to the PI to lure their fathers to England so they can cap their kids. Wales are providing good employment opportunities to PI who like it so much they bring their families and raise them as Welsh. There's a big difference.

Some old habits are difficult to stop. Evidently the poaching chestnut still lives and breathes among some...

As for the selection, I think there is more the problem of rewarding players with selection based on reputation rather than form. Priestland for example should have been cast aside like Morné Steyn and told in no uncertain terms to go work on his game in specific areas. Like kicking away possession and when not to do it and why.

Robshaw will hopefully have been sat down by Lancaster and explained to the importance of taking points when they are presented to his side. We all make mistakes but the important thing to do is not to repeat them. Like selection errors...

Simon Shaw will never be past it.
He had his opportunity to be too old in 2009 and failed - miserably.
Write his name down now.

anotherworldofpain wrote:

you good old wum Grey Ghost

Don't let me stop you, hammerofthunor what were you saying?

anotherworldofpain wrote:Don't let me stop you, hammerofthunor what were you saying?

Having a quick stir????

Rearrange chaps:

bait dont AWOPs take

anotherworldofpain wrote:Don't let me stop you, hammerofthunor what were you saying?

I said what I was going to say. I'm not sure how you think you stopped me.

doctor_grey wrote:Simon Shaw will never be past it.
He had his opportunity to be too old in 2009 and failed - miserably.
Write his name down now.

Haha, excellent

Money on England taking 3 pointers and losing by 17 on the weekend?

What are the pointers?

Ruck over the ball.
Move the ball away from the ruck faster.
Run into space.

If so then maybe it's only be by 17

AWOP (GG) = pointless
(in his WUMs)

On topic GT please and cut with the personal attacks and paranoia.

gregortree wrote:AWOP (GG) = pointless
(in his WUMs)

thats a fair point. this article is merely an attempt to get a reaction

I think the OP from AWOP is quite perceptive and not far off the mark. Maybe the truth just hurts a little for some on here

RubyGuby wrote:I think the OP from AWOP is quite perceptive and not far off the mark. Maybe the truth just hurts a little for some on here

Ruby, I think you need to read a bit more between the lines when greyghost writes the article

You mean like your personal attacks and paranoia against Australia?

don't throw stones.... don't throw stones.... and everybody came out ........................my window

Linebreaker wrote:You mean like your personal attacks and paranoia against Australia?

don't throw stones.... don't throw stones.... and everybody came out ........................my window

Now LB as I already explained I wasn't attacking Australians I was merely relaying what I heard that people were saying, maybe that wasn't entirey clear. Some of my best friends are Australian, and I admire their standard of handwriting immensely.

Is there an echo in here or what?

So you don't like that song by The Sportz? (Note the ixcellunt spulling)

Jeezus, if there was a Gold Medal for the fastest back-peddler.... you'd fill all 3 spots on the bloody podium!

of course I'd like to sit around and chat
of course I'd like to sit and chew the fat
but some one's listening in

No, it's all been cleared by the Admins. Promise.