Home Nations Choices after the Six Nations with a view to Lions squad selection

by maestegmafia Sun 22 Apr 2012, 1:07 pm

Here is who everyone voted as their favourite players in each position.

15. Kearny and Foden

14. Bowe and Ashton

13. O'Driscoll and Tuilagi

12. Jamie Roberts and Brad Barritt

11. North and either Sharples or Trimble they both finished on equal votes

10. Sexton, Farrell and either Flood or Priestland

9. Phillips, Youngs and Blair

8. Morgan and Denton

7. Warburton and Rennie

6. Ferris and Lydiate

5. Gray and Lawes

4. POC and either Ian Evans or Geoff Parling same amount of votes

3. Adam and Cole

2. Best and Hartley

1. Gethin and Corbisiero

Utility backs and Forwards are

Keith Earls, Jonny May

And

Sean O'Brien, Kelly Brown and Ryan Jones

Players that play in more than one position suffered in the vote as for example with a player like Leigh Halfpenny people could not determine whether they preferred him as a winger or as a fullback.

That said, after asking for five player you recommend from nations other than your own, an idea to try and cajole an appreciative view of who posters rate. Results being that a player like Halfpenny then seemed a very popular choice. Likewise Jon Davies and Sean O'Brien.

I use this as an example of what we get from polling in the way I have. It may create a squad that is easily up for debate and deliberation, but in contrast the Test Team is probably quite a likely one.

The Choice Test side looking like:

1. G. Jenkins
2. R. Best
3. A. Jones
4. P. O'Connell
5. R. Gray
6. S. Ferris
7. S. Warburton (Captain)
8. B. Morgan
9. M. Phillips
10. J. Sexton
11. G. North
12. J. Roberts
13. B O'Driscoll
14. T. Bowe
15. R. Kearney

Popular five from each Home Nation post are below

England

Cole
Foden
Farrell
Morgan
Tuilagi

Ireland

Best
Ferris
Heeley
Kearney
Sexton

Scotland

Denton
Ford
Gray
Hogg
Rennie

Wales

Warburton
Davies
Jenkins
Lydiate
North

Relevant Links

https://www.606v2.com/t27937-suggest-five-players-from-each-of-other-home-nations-that-you-think-should-be-in-the-lions-squad

https://www.606v2.com/t27767p50-outside-choices-of-the-home-nations-for-the-2013-lions-tour-to-australia

https://www.606v2.com/t27648-tour-captain-choices-of-the-home-nations

https://www.606v2.com/t27195-utility-forwards-choices-of-the-home-nations

https://www.606v2.com/t27570-utility-backs-choices-of-the-home-nations

https://www.606v2.com/t27514-fullbacks-choices-of-the-home-nations

https://www.606v2.com/t27459-right-winger-choices-of-the-home-nations

https://www.606v2.com/t27406-outside-centre-choices-of-the-home-nations

https://www.606v2.com/t27362-inside-center-choices-of-the-home-nations

https://www.606v2.com/t27441-left-winger-choices-of-the-home-nations

https://www.606v2.com/t27317-flyhalf-choices-of-the-home-nations

https://www.606v2.com/t27250-scrumhalf-choices-of-the-home-nations

https://www.606v2.com/t27122-number-8-choices-of-the-home-nations

https://www.606v2.com/t27020-openside-choices-of-the-home-nations

https://www.606v2.com/t26967-blindside-choices-of-the-home-nations

https://www.606v2.com/t26916-lock-choices-of-the-home-nations

https://www.606v2.com/t26794-tight-head-prop-choices-of-the-home-nations

https://www.606v2.com/t26852-hooker-choices-of-the-home-nations

https://www.606v2.com/t26788-loosehead-prop-choices-of-the-home-nations

by maestegmafia Sun 22 Apr 2012, 2:19 pm

The 606V2 Choice Test side looking like:

1. G. Jenkins
2. R. Best
3. A. Jones
4. P. O'Connell
5. R. Gray
6. S. Ferris
7. S. Warburton (Captain)
8. B. Morgan
9. M. Phillips
10. J. Sexton
11. G. North
12. J. Roberts
13. B O'Driscoll
14. T. Bowe
15. R. Kearney

by sugarNspikes Sun 22 Apr 2012, 3:14 pm

Not bad.

It'll be a lot different in 12 months time. Heck, it'll be a lot different in 6 months.

by maestegmafia Sun 22 Apr 2012, 5:07 pm

Robert Kitson's Selections for the Guardian wrote:Possible 2013 Lions squad?

Full-backs: Ben Foden (England), Rob Kearney (Ireland).

Wings: Chris Ashton (England), Tommy Bowe (Ireland), Leigh Halfpenny (Wales), George North (Wales), Tim Visser (Scotland).

Centres: Owen Farrell (England), Jamie Roberts (Wales), Jonathan Davies (Wales), Keith Earls (Ireland), Brian O'Driscoll (Ireland).

Fly-halves: Rhys Priestland (Wales), Jonathan Sexton (Ireland).

Scrum-halves: Lee Dickson (England), Greig Laidlaw (Scotland), Mike Phillips (Wales).

Props: Gethin Jenkins (Wales), Cian Healy (Ireland), Adam Jones (Wales), Dan Cole (England), Alex Corbisiero (England).

Hookers: Rory Best (Ireland), Ross Ford (Scotland), Matthew Rees (Wales).

Locks: Alun Wyn Jones (Wales), Paul O'Connell (Ireland, capt), Richie Gray (Scotland), Bradley Davies (Wales), Donnacha Ryan (Ireland).

Flankers: Stephen Ferris (Ireland), Dan Lydiate (Wales), Sean O'Brien (Ireland), Sam Warburton (Wales), Tom Croft (England).

No 8: Jamie Heaslip (Ireland), Toby Faletau (Wales).

by maestegmafia Sun 22 Apr 2012, 5:17 pm

Will Greenwood's Selections for The Telegraph wrote:B&I Lions 2013

Full-back - Rob Kearney (Ireland)
Left Wing - Tommy Bowe (Ireland)
Outside Centre - Jonathon Davies (Wales)
Inside Centre - Jamie Roberts (Wales)
Right Wing - George North (Wales)
Fly-halves - Jonny Sexton (Ireland)
Scrum-half - Mike Phillips (Wales)
Loosehead Prop - Gethin Jenkins (Wales)
Hooker - Dylan Hartley (England)
Tighthead Prop - Adam Jones (Wales)
Lock - Ian Evans (Wales)
Lock - Richie Gray (Scotland)
Blindside Flanker - Stephen Ferris (Ireland)
Openside Flanker - Sam Warburton (Wales)
No 8: Toby Faletau (Wales)

by bedfordwelsh Sun 22 Apr 2012, 5:32 pm

I was liking Greenwoods selection until Hartley at hooker, Best is head and shoulders the 'Best' around at the moment with Ford and Rees above Hartley IMO.

by maestegmafia Sun 22 Apr 2012, 5:35 pm

bedfordwelsh wrote:I was liking Greenwoods selection until Hartley at hooker, Best is head and shoulders the 'Best' around at the moment with Ford and Rees above Hartley IMO.

I imagine will felt a bit of an onus to get at least one Englishman in there? Greenwood regularly states how little he knows about the frontrow.

by Barney McGrew did it Sun 22 Apr 2012, 5:36 pm

Funny, I thought that was one of the few he got right.

by sugarNspikes Sun 22 Apr 2012, 5:38 pm

Hartley should be captain.

by Knowsit17 Sun 22 Apr 2012, 5:49 pm

sugarNspikes wrote:Hartley should be captain.

I agree, he should be... if Warburton, O'Connell and O'Driscoll all suffer injuries Smile

by sugarNspikes Sun 22 Apr 2012, 5:51 pm

Knowsit17 wrote:
sugarNspikes wrote:Hartley should be captain.

I agree, he should be... if Warburton, O'Connell and O'Driscoll all suffer injuries

Well, they've all become a bit injury-prone recently so Dylan is yer man!

by Knowsit17 Sun 22 Apr 2012, 5:54 pm

They do, almost as much as Hartley is ban-prone Wink

All out injured at the same time though would have to be quite a coincidence even by their standards.

by sugarNspikes Sun 22 Apr 2012, 5:59 pm

Contrary to popular belief Hartley doesn't actually get banned that often. He's a lovely lad Smile

by Knowsit17 Sun 22 Apr 2012, 6:05 pm

But he incinerates millions of puppies and kittens a year! He waits at street corners to steal lollies from innocent defenceless children. And he breaks into old women's houses just to throw them down the stairs! Shocked

Also he's a bit of a thug Run

by monwy Sun 22 Apr 2012, 6:06 pm

Knowsit17 wrote:
All out injured at the same time though would have to be quite a coincidence even by their standards.

They were all injured at the same time this 6N.

by Knowsit17 Sun 22 Apr 2012, 6:10 pm

monwy wrote:
Knowsit17 wrote:
All out injured at the same time though would have to be quite a coincidence even by their standards.

They were all injured at the same time this 6N.

For it to happen again would be quite a coincidence Wink

Anyway, O'Connell and Warbs took part in three games each.

by **rodders** Sun 22 Apr 2012, 6:33 pm

Respect to the op. Good job sir

by alcoombe Sun 22 Apr 2012, 9:01 pm

Knowsit17 wrote:
monwy wrote:
Knowsit17 wrote:
All out injured at the same time though would have to be quite a coincidence even by their standards.

They were all injured at the same time this 6N.

For it to happen again would be quite a coincidence

Anyway, O'Connell and Warbs took part in three games each.

That's a careful use of language, Warburton limped off at HT in two of those games, he only really managed one uninjured game.

I'd love O'Driscoll to be first choice for the Lions, but I've got more than a few doubts about whether he'll still be at the top of his game and make it. A year and a half is a long time when you're a back in your mid 30s. Though if anyone can make it O'Driscoll probably can.

by Liam Sun 22 Apr 2012, 9:09 pm

I'm not WUMMING or anything now, but how JD2 is behind Barritt or Tuilagi is surprising imo. JD2 has been the outstanding centre this year in the NH, and has a better defence than Tuilagi, is a smarter rugby player than Tuilagi and can play 12 and 13. Barritt was solid enough in the six nations but JD2 has the better all round game. Strange.

I also fail to see the big deal about Courtney Laws. I honestly have not seen anything so far to suggest he's a Lions quality. But that's just my opinion.

by sugarNspikes Sun 22 Apr 2012, 9:16 pm

martyr_94 wrote:I'm not WUMMING or anything now, but how JD2 is behind Barritt or Tuilagi is surprising imo. JD2 has been the outstanding centre this year in the NH, and has a better defence than Tuilagi, is a smarter rugby player than Tuilagi and can play 12 and 13. Barritt was solid enough in the six nations but JD2 has the better all round game. Strange.

I also fail to see the big deal about Courtney Laws. I honestly have not seen anything so far to suggest he's a Lions quality. But that's just my opinion.

Never a good way to start a comment at least you were honest with the last bit. The middle section is a bit dodgy.

by wales606 Sun 22 Apr 2012, 9:50 pm

martyr_94 wrote:I'm not WUMMING or anything now, but how JD2 is behind Barritt or Tuilagi is surprising imo. JD2 has been the outstanding centre this year in the NH, and has a better defence than Tuilagi, is a smarter rugby player than Tuilagi and can play 12 and 13. Barritt was solid enough in the six nations but JD2 has the better all round game. Strange.

I also fail to see the big deal about Courtney Laws. I honestly have not seen anything so far to suggest he's a Lions quality. But that's just my opinion.

Probably because he was on the 12 and 13 poll, splitting his vote

Same with Halfpenny at FB and wing.

by sugarNspikes Sun 22 Apr 2012, 9:55 pm

How does it split the vote though? You can vote on both. It's not one or the other.

The way the voting is set up does tend to invite anomalies though.

by wales606 Sun 22 Apr 2012, 11:08 pm

sugarNspikes wrote:How does it split the vote though? You can vote on both. It's not one or the other.

The way the voting is set up does tend to invite anomalies though.

But those who voted for JD2 as a 13 wouldn't have voted again for him as a 12 (or visa versa) I certainly didn't.

by Rory_Gallagher Sun 22 Apr 2012, 11:16 pm

I think I voted for him as both a 12 and 13, but I think I am one of the few. The reason I did is because he is a nailed on starter IMO. If he continues his form. I really want to see him at 12 though. Brilliant player, great fun to watch (when it isn't Ireland).

by wales606 Sun 22 Apr 2012, 11:30 pm

Rory_Gallagher wrote:I think I voted for him as both a 12 and 13, but I think I am one of the few. The reason I did is because he is a nailed on starter IMO. If he continues his form. I really want to see him at 12 though. Brilliant player, great fun to watch (when it isn't Ireland).

I think he is best at 13 for Wales

Still, if BOD gets some form, I could be convinced he is a 12...

by Rory_Gallagher Sun 22 Apr 2012, 11:47 pm

I understand that as Wales seem to have more 12s than 13s, but I still think Davies would be the best of the 12s. Probably the best of the 13s too.

by maestegmafia Mon 23 Apr 2012, 7:32 am

Rory_Gallagher wrote:I understand that as Wales seem to have more 12s than 13s, but I still think Davies would be the best of the 12s. Probably the best of the 13s too.

That is going to be a difficult thing for him to solve.

Though in seriousness it all depends who else around and inform. Davies 12, BOD 13 or Roberts 12 and Davies 13.

by maestegmafia Mon 23 Apr 2012, 1:35 pm

wales606 wrote:
Rory_Gallagher wrote:I think I voted for him as both a 12 and 13, but I think I am one of the few. The reason I did is because he is a nailed on starter IMO. If he continues his form. I really want to see him at 12 though. Brilliant player, great fun to watch (when it isn't Ireland).

I think he is best at 13 for Wales

Still, if BOD gets some form, I could be convinced he is a 12...

I was pretty impressed with Bod his last few games. With him at 13 and Davies or Roberts partnering him I think the lions will be very strong at centre.

by Smirnoffpriest Mon 23 Apr 2012, 1:45 pm

maestegmafia wrote:Here is who everyone voted as their favourite players in each position.

15. Kearny and Foden

14. Bowe and Ashton

13. O'Driscoll and Tuilagi

12. Jamie Roberts and Brad Barritt

11. North and either Sharples or Trimble they both finished on equal votes

10. Sexton, Farrell and either Flood or Priestland

9. Phillips, Youngs and Blair

8. Morgan and Denton

7. Warburton and Rennie

6. Ferris and Lydiate

5. Gray and Lawes

4. POC and either Ian Evans or Geoff Parling same amount of votes

3. Adam and Cole

2. Best and Hartley

1. Gethin and Corbisiero

So it's basically the England side and one other in every position bar 6 & 7?

by Barney McGrew did it Mon 23 Apr 2012, 2:29 pm

"So it's basically the England side and one other in every position bar 6 & 7? "

Woo hoo! Now we're cooking with gas.

(altho' I'd have had Croft).

by Smirnoffpriest Mon 23 Apr 2012, 2:36 pm

Barney McGrew did it wrote:"So it's basically the England side and one other in every position bar 6 & 7? "

Woo hoo! Now we're cooking with gas.

(altho' I'd have had Croft).

Ahh so it's not quite as slanted as I first thought...

by englandglory4ever Mon 23 Apr 2012, 2:46 pm

Far too many welsh and Irish being touted on here. The Irish were humped by England and the welsh just squeaked past us with a bounce of the ball going their way.

The welsh front row are past it and the Irish front row are just a joke.

The Lions should be 40% English, 40% Welsh and the rest made up with one or two scots and Irish. (Kearney, BOD, POC and Gray are the only ones that come to mind). The rest could do with a free holiday.

by Smirnoffpriest Mon 23 Apr 2012, 2:57 pm

englandglory4ever wrote:Far too many welsh and Irish being touted on here. The Irish were humped by England and the welsh just squeaked past us with a bounce of the ball going their way.

The welsh front row are past it and the Irish front row are just a joke.

The Lions should be 40% English, 40% Welsh and the rest made up with one or two scots and Irish. (Kearney, BOD, POC and Gray are the only ones that come to mind). The rest could do with a free holiday.

So I guess your advocating a squad full of Scottish players then?

by Smirnoffpriest Mon 23 Apr 2012, 3:00 pm

englandglory4ever wrote:Far too many welsh and Irish being touted on here. The Irish were humped by England and the welsh just squeaked past us with a bounce of the ball going their way.

The welsh front row are past it and the Irish front row are just a joke.

The Lions should be 40% English, 40% Welsh and the rest made up with one or two scots and Irish. (Kearney, BOD, POC and Gray are the only ones that come to mind). The rest could do with a free holiday.

Also there should be more Welsh toted as every other position almost put up in the OP is an English player - I'd also rather have most of Sexton, POC, BOD, Ferris, SOB, Healy, Kearney, Bowe, Gray, Denton, Hogg & Ford in a Lions squad to be honest

by majesticimperialman Mon 23 Apr 2012, 4:09 pm

Shouldn't the lions be made up manly of Wales, England players, seeing that those two teams finished first and second in the 6ns. and the rest of the squad come from Ireland and Scotland?

But like it as been said already 18 months is a long time in rugby.
So lets just wait and see.

by Smirnoffpriest Mon 23 Apr 2012, 4:17 pm

majesticimperialman wrote:Shouldn't the lions be made up manly of Wales, England players, seeing that those two teams finished first and second in the 6ns. and the rest of the squad come from Ireland and Scotland?

But like it as been said already 18 months is a long time in rugby.
So lets just wait and see.

I prefer to pick the players who are the best (or 2nd best) in each position, not with standing partnerships/complimentary players, regardless of which country they come from.

I agree though we'll all have a totally different attitude on which players we want after the summer tours, and again after the AI's.

I'd say the centre's would def be a choice between Wales and England, however the backrow would be Wales and Ireland with maybe Morgan/Denton thrown in - halfbacks conversely would be Ireland/Scotland/England - while the front row you could argue for combinations between any of the home nations.

by geoff998rugby Mon 23 Apr 2012, 4:41 pm

You pick the best players not players from the best teams - there is an important distinction.

Ireland have a number of outstanding players but have an underperforming coach and are weak in some positions - 3, 9 and 12 which means that they loose more than the talent of the players available would suggest.

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Mon 23 Apr 2012, 4:47 pm

rodders wrote:Respect to the op. Good job sir

+1

maes, thanks for collating all this stuff

by Feckless Rogue Mon 23 Apr 2012, 5:38 pm

You pick the best players. Jonny Wilkinson was picked for England when he played for Newcastle. And Keith would was picked for the Lions when he was in the 5th best team in the 5 Nations.

by maestegmafia Mon 23 Apr 2012, 10:53 pm

Smirnoffpriest wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:Here is who everyone voted as their favourite players in each position.

15. Kearny and Foden

14. Bowe and Ashton

13. O'Driscoll and Tuilagi

12. Jamie Roberts and Brad Barritt

11. North and either Sharples or Trimble they both finished on equal votes

10. Sexton, Farrell and either Flood or Priestland

9. Phillips, Youngs and Blair

8. Morgan and Denton

7. Warburton and Rennie

6. Ferris and Lydiate

5. Gray and Lawes

4. POC and either Ian Evans or Geoff Parling same amount of votes

3. Adam and Cole

2. Best and Hartley

1. Gethin and Corbisiero

So it's basically the England side and one other in every position bar 6 & 7?

Yes it appears that a large majority of the 606v2 pundits were on the selection committee for the 2005 lions tour to NZ...!

by dummy_half Tue 24 Apr 2012, 9:29 am

Maes
England have quite a lot of players who are the second best in their respective positions. I do though have to agree a little that there are a couple of England players in that list who have a lot to do to make the Lions squad.

No problems with it including:
Corbs (noting he is in competition with Healy for this spot)
Cole
Parling
Morgan
Youngs
Flood
Barritt
Ashton
Foden

Tuillagi for me should be there but as back up to JD2 (who was on great form through the 6Ns) rather than BOD, who has obviously been top class for a long time but I think is starting to creak a bit too much and having to play to the limitations of his body (i.e. no real pace any more)

Hartley for me is the least dynamic of the 4 home nations hookers, and against Aus we're going to need a dynamic ball carrier - Best, Ford and Rees would all be better choices for my money.

Lawes has the potential to be an excellent 2nd row, but he's missed a lot of rugby this season and when he has played hasn't really shone. Has some ground to make up.

Not sure what Sharples has done to justify being considered - can't get in the England side and is likely to fall behind one or two others (Wade, May) in the pecking order over the next year.

by sugarNspikes Tue 24 Apr 2012, 9:49 am

We're a long way from the Lions tour. This poll will be out of date before the end of the year, never mind next summer.

If the polls weren't annonymous it would be more interesting so you could see who voted for who.

I get the impression that some folk say "well, I'm Welsh* so I'll only vote for Welsh players*".

*For example purposes only.

by BigTrevsbigmac Tue 24 Apr 2012, 4:01 pm

maestegmafia wrote:
bedfordwelsh wrote:I was liking Greenwoods selection until Hartley at hooker, Best is head and shoulders the 'Best' around at the moment with Ford and Rees above Hartley IMO.

I imagine will felt a bit of an onus to get at least one Englishman in there? Greenwood regularly states how little he knows about the frontrow.

I guess that's why he plumped for old boys Gethin & Adam Very Happy

by maestegmafia Tue 24 Apr 2012, 9:12 pm

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:
rodders wrote:Respect to the op. Good job sir
+1

maes, thanks for collating all this stuff

Cheers very kind of you both to say so.

It was an interesting look at peoples thoughts and opinions so well worth any time or effort... Hoping this conclusion thread will bring some enlightened debate as to the likely potential make up of who posters think should go on tour. As I read the above there are a number of interesting thoughts all ready being proposed.

by maestegmafia Mon 30 Apr 2012, 9:41 am

I thought I would poll your opinions on how we all did collectively on our selection.

by LordDowlais Mon 30 Apr 2012, 9:53 am

Sorry, but I went for abysmal, as ther is just to much own nation bias, the fact that Ashton, Hartley and Sharples are there is just beggars belief, o.k Sharples has got potential and could get in if he plays in the next six nations and shines but he has done nothing at international level yet, and the other two are not even the best in their own country. steam

by maestegmafia Mon 30 Apr 2012, 9:57 am

I went for moderate as some of the selections we're genuine where as many others were leaning towards the ambitious.

by LordDowlais Mon 30 Apr 2012, 10:04 am

O.k I have changed my vote to Moderate, as maesteg says, I suppose some are geniune. Shocked

by maestegmafia Mon 30 Apr 2012, 10:08 am

And the test team is not far from being that accurate on the current form/past glories that hold players in high regard.

by sugarNspikes Mon 30 Apr 2012, 10:43 am

A poll on a poll, eh? Can we have a poll on how posters thought the views on this poll went too?

It's all opinion. No one is right or wrong. It's obvious that some folk will have bias towards their own players - it explains Mike Philips, I guess. Even you're entitled to your opinion, Dowlais Smile

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