Can Fish V Federer still be a good match?

I ask this question from mainly a personal point of view as that's a match I'm going to see which has kind of been rendered an exhibition I mean neither has anything to gain or lose. All the pressure and competition has been taken out of it; I'm left wondering what to make of it as a spectator. Any opinions?

I can swap that one with my Tsip Djoko of Friday eve!

Well, since Federer's through whatever happens, you might see him putting on a bit of a show and going for some outrageous shots. Having said that, Federer will still not be too keen on losing a) to keep a 100% record, and b) if he loses in straights and Nadal wins in straights he might go through second, which would give him a harder semi final (haven't checked this so correct me if I'm wrong!).

Fish will probably want to try and restore some pride, so I think he'll still put in 100%. It's his first WTF, and may well be his last, so I think he'll try and make the most of this match. So in answer to your question, I think it could be a great match. Fish will certainly put up more of a fight than the paltry showing Nadal gave today.

Sorry tenez thursday was the only day I could do and I think I'm going to be persuaded that this match is going to be good.

Thanks for the reassurance Chaz, its fun playing these speculative games with players' motives.

Chazfazzer wrote:Fish will certainly put up more of a fight than the paltry showing Nadal gave today.

Still I wouldn't be complaining if I had been there.

I think it'll still be a good match.

Fed will be relaxed and come out swinging.

Fish will want to go out in style and besides the whole tour gets pumped up when they play Roger.

I hope Roger plays to win. The ranking points will be useful. He can finish in the top 3 for the ninth consecutive year.

Does he get ranking points for winning?

Boris seems to think it'll be El Mugro.

yes 200 points per RR match

Federer has motivation to win his Fish match, which gets him back to ATP #3. There is also a financial incentive (USD 120,000) to be a winner and also be an undefeated champion (USD 1,63 Million).

http://www.atpworldtour.com/Finals/2011/Results/Prize-Money-2.aspx

Correction: Federer could overtake Andy Murray as year-end No. 3 in the South African Airways ATP Rankings by winning all three of his round-robin group matches and his semi-final at The O2.
http://www.atpworldtour.com/News/Tennis/2011/11/47/London-Finals-Tuesday-Federer-Nadal.aspx

Ok so Fed has motivation which is good but what about Fish? I hope pride is enough of a reason to do everything he can. To be honest I haven't really seen any of his matches this year so it should be interesting.

Fish played better against Nadal than Tsonga.

If Federer plays the way he played today against Nadal, Fish has very little chance against Federer.

I won't be in the least bit disappointed if Fed plays the way he did tonight

If Fed plays that way today against anyone no-one has very little chance indoors!

lydian wrote:If Fed plays that way today against anyone no-one has very little chance indoors!

Absolutely, Lydian. Amazing shot making from Federer. Nadal was a bit under the weather, though.

Can see Fed letting Fish win if it means 'vamos Rafa'.

He's cold hearted this old shanky.

But that could cost $120K. I say give Fish second set then win it in 3.

Josiah Maiestas wrote:Can see Fed letting Fish win if it means 'vamos Rafa'.

He's cold hearted this old shanky.

It would not be very smart from Federer. What he really wants is a Djoko Nadal semi....so he can fight v ER survivor on Sunday.

The main things left for Federer and Fish to play for are 200 ATP points and prize money.

Federer will finish top of the group, even if he loses to Fish, by virtue of his H2H against Nadal and Tsonga. (When two players are tied H2H counts before % of sets won)

Fish cannot qualify for the semis because the winner of Nadal vs Tsonga will be 2-1 (and qualify in 2nd), and Fish can at most get to 1-2.

It will be a good match - Federer and Fish play more attacking tennis than most on the tour, they both behave very well on Court too. Fish will want to win and Federer's history at this event shows that he puts in the effort to win his group 3-0 when the opportunity arises - Fed has a break of 1 day before playing the SF, so there's no reason to worry too much about getting over tired, and Fish isn't a baseline slugger anyway.

break_in_the_fifth wrote:I ask this question from mainly a personal point of view as that's a match I'm going to see which has kind of been rendered an exhibition I mean neither has anything to gain or lose. All the pressure and competition has been taken out of it; I'm left wondering what to make of it as a spectator. Any opinions?

I have bought tickets to that session. Bit of a consolation prize as I messed up the ticketmaster thing for the Fed/Nadal match and lost the tickets before I could pay for them. Hope Fed puts on a show but not too much as he has a big weekend ahead of him. He could end up playing Djoko, Berdych or Ferrer and then maybe Nadal or Tsonga in the final.

Goes without saying that Fed will be very anxious to keep as many points as possible from his undefeated run here last year. He can wrestle the number 3 back from Murray.

And then going into 2012 ..... well Novak of course has mega points to defend, so 'twill indeed be fascinating to see how things might pan out for the Big Four next 12 season

Depends what would merit a good match?

High serving percentages, lots of winners, low UE's.

End of the day Fish would still gun for a victory given that there isn't any guarantees he will be back again next year.

I don't think Federer's level can drop. I think Fish needs to play above his level to beat Federer on a bad day.

Thanks for the comments, should be good.

I thought it was an ok match and tried not to be under the delusion that it was a proper competitive match. I think after the match Fed even said he was expecting to lose. Having said that I was expecting a bit more from him though I was unfairly judging him by Tuedays standards. The atmosphere was fairly neutral as you might expect with nothing really at stake. I don't think Fish played as badly as some make out though on the other thread. He actually won that second set and I guess was burning more energy in the first 2 sets retrieving Feds shots. He had a number of great return winners and some nice volleys.

I guess I can't however kid myself into thinking this was Tuesdays Fed though I guess I was hoping to see something closer. Nevertheless he did hit a nice down the line backhand pass as well as a cross court one. His movement and slice was great and his returning was better than his average 2011 level. I think if he hit his forehand as hard as on tuesday he could have had more clean winners. The example that stands out for me is at the end of the first set he took the pace right off that inside out forehand so Fish still reached it but netted it to give Fed the set.

I was also at the Tsonga match which by contrast had a much more lively and competitive atmosphere but I guess that's a different post for a different thread.