Even a mediocre Federer looks good in grass

Falla has troubled Fed in grass even at the past so todays match was no different very close and unlucky to lose in 2 tie breakers, but to whatever I observed Fed still looks a prospect in grass and even his mediocre levels can trouble an opponent playing a very high level Tennis.

This puts Fed's prospect at Wimbledon a bit tricky, not many great grass court player in the current era, most top level players are all attrition Tennis players who play similar style on all surfaces, Murray will be a real challenge provided he applies himself in it.

So I will put it this way if draw favors him, say like Andy/Rafa in the same draw and if Fed applies himself and focus hard he could again go long distance and give himself a shot at the title.

His tough path will be as follows

Falla in 1st or 2nd round
Gulbis/Raonic/Isner/Tsonga in 3rd or 4th round
Berdych in QF
Andy in Semis
Nadal in Finals

if he avoids the above names then he can   , but given all we all know what happened last year   so Federer you better focus.

Anyone playing lights-out stuff can still create problems for Federer, say a Darcis or Stakhovsky or Lopez or Nieminen.

He can handle Raonic Isner better than Berdych or Gulbis.

Is Del Potro planning to play W?

Federer's problem these days is his lack of focus and a prime example is that bizarre to the semi in Halle. What was he thinking and where was his mind? To not realise the match was over and to be ready to play the next point is just unbelievable.

I think lack of focus like that is what has been his downfall. Also, these days its a safe bet that when he is up a break and serving for a match or set he will get broken. Happens too often now and against any of the top ten, especially Nadal/Djokovic you don't want to hand a break of serve back when you about to close a set or match out as it never ends well.

It would take a superbly focussed, error free, brilliant serving two weeks coupled with some fortunate/shock results for Federer to win a slam. I am not saying this because the man cannot play tennis anymore, its just that the others have youth of their side.

The early round slip ups are what have plagued Federer lately. Let's not hope he does. One more Wimbledon, US or French would be ideal as he would be the most successful with the former two.

Not sure I would go as far as calling his performances at Halle 'mediocre'  but nor was I especially impressed with what I saw in any of his three matches there.  Full credit however for taking the title, and there is no doubt that Nishikori and Falla both provided some pretty determined opposition.

History tells us that much can happen between Halle / Queens, and the big W itself. For me, Federer would need to be much more productive on break points, more consistent on the once-trusty forehand, and generally cut down on a sometimes scary U/E count if he is to mount anything resembling a serious challenge next week. At least the serve seems (mostly) to be working well.

Halle showed that even an ageing Federer still has enough grass court craft, defensive ability and all-round accumulated guile & experience to fend off most players just below the very top layer. But I have serious doubts that it will be quite enough to fight through seven Bo5 matches in a Slam field bristling with real danger in week two ; always assuming of course that - unlike 2013 - he makes it that far .......

On his (admittedly bizarre) mental aberration re scoreline in the Nishikori semi ...... I think we can cut him just a bit of slack for a one-off in around 1200+ pro level matches........??

FedsFan... Good to "see" you.

One thing which made me smile yesterday, is the ability to transition between surfaces, even at this age. There are many younger players who have a harder time. Elsewhere, the "GOAT" debates should account for such factors as well.

Borg, IIRC, never played a Grass warm-up, and he could play on Clay and Grass and adjust very well.

seeing what nadal, murray, wawrinka and berdych did, federer was all but mediocre

nothing federer produces can be considered mediocre. of course he is not always excellent, and can be more than erratic at times, but seeing him play still makes you think tennis is easy... and that says it all

Since leaving the team and commentating on tennis channel here in USA, Annacone has talked several times about how much pain Federer was in during 2012 Wimbledon. Said Federer almost pulled out of the tournament because the back got so bad, and even during the final was limited... Point being- on a good day,even a lesser Federer on grass- can beat anyone.

naxroy wrote: but seeing him play still makes you think tennis is easy... and that says it all

Seeing him play these days proves is like pain in the arse, neither he known why he is still playing nor his fans.

DirectView wrote:

naxroy wrote: but seeing him play still makes you think tennis is easy... and that says it all

Seeing him play these days proves is like pain in the arse, neither he known why he is still playing nor his fans.

I think different.

In all honesty I struggle to understand many of your posts DirectView, but on this one I'm going to guess that you perhaps feel Federer should no longer be playing on the World Tour ....??

Whilst it's undeniable that his best days are well behind him, it's also a fact that in the first few months of this year alone, he has beaten five different top ten players, including the current World No. 2 (twice).

He himself is ranked number 4. Views differ as to how much longer he should/will continue to play competitive tennis. But if it's already time for him to go, where exactly does that leave all the guys ranked lower than number 4 ......??

laverfan wrote:FedsFan... Good to "see" you.
og
One thing which made me smile yesterday, is the ability to transition between surfaces, even at this age. There are many younger players who have a harder time. Elsewhere, the "GOAT" debates should account for such factors as well.

Borg, IIRC, never played a Grass warm-up, and he could play on Clay and Grass and adjust very well.

But I thought the surfaces nowadays were homogenous. Has the view on this suddenly changed ?

lags72 wrote:In all honesty I struggle to understand many of your posts DirectView, but on this one I'm going to guess that you perhaps feel Federer should no longer be playing on the World Tour ....??

Whilst it's undeniable that his best days are well behind him, it's also a fact that in the first few months of this year alone, he has beaten five different top ten players, including the current World No. 2 (twice).

He himself is ranked number 4. Views differ as to how much longer he should/will continue to play competitive tennis. But if it's already time for him to go, where exactly does that leave all the guys ranked lower than number 4 ......??

I am banned for being a big critic, I was taking a mock on English soccer team and somebody reported me for a ban I guess.

So sorry lags won't be able to answer your point due to lack of posting privileges, this account is created just to let you know I was banned for no major offence or breaking any house rules but for some stupidity of the person who banned me.

laverfan wrote:FedsFan... Good to "see" you.

One thing which made me smile yesterday, is the ability to transition between surfaces, even at this age. There are many younger players who have a harder time. Elsewhere, the "GOAT" debates should account for such factors as well.

Borg, IIRC, never played a Grass warm-up, and he could play on Clay and Grass and adjust very well.

Lavefan, Glad to be back on here after what seems like a lifetime!  

he has won on hardcourt and grass and got to a final on a clay masters

DirectView wrote:

naxroy wrote: but seeing him play still makes you think tennis is easy... and that says it all

Seeing him play these days proves is like pain in the arse, neither he known why he is still playing nor his fans.

Can't say I share your sentiments. I have been watching him for over a decade now and I cannot imagine the tennis scene without him, just as many up here who were Agassi or Sampras fans. Granted, to watch him play today can be a nightmare sometimes due to his lack of consistency and the ups and downs throughout Federer's matches.

The fact of the matter is, win or lose, ranked 1, 4 or 10 Federer on the order of play sells tickets and fills arenas across the world. People know he is not the force he was, at nearly 33 it would be silly to think he can go toe to toe with his rivals, Nadal being the closest in terms of age who is 5 years Fed's junior.

Federer, Wimbledon Champion 2014? Hardly an outrageous thought. Sure, he most likely won't go through Murray, Djokovic and the likes in 1/4's, 1/2's and final, HOWEVER, he only has to play the opponents that make it, to face him in the draw. Nadal, as big a fan as I am, is struggling right now, and there's a handful of players that would be capable of taking him out in 1st four rounds. Would it be a big surprise if Nadal doesn't make Week 2? I think not.

Similarly, whilst we would think having won last year's Championships, would ease a great deal of pressure off British Andy Murray, I can only imagine the amount of pressure he will still be under to repeat. How that affects him, we'll see, and in conjunction with his draw, it may have a big effect, who knows? Sadly the British Press makes it harder on him, with the constant nitpicking and criticism of his game, his attitude and demeanour. Were they to just leave him alone, it would make his "journey" much easier, but there we go.

Djokovic - as much as I don't care for his personality, his TENNIS is something I admire, rexpect and enjoy watching. And it's his TENNIS that makes him a good bet to get to the semi finals, and from there, it's anyone's tournament, really. I would be surprised if he didn't make the semis, not withstanding a barrage by Karlovic, should he be unlucky to draw him in 1st or 2nd round.

Raonic, Tsonga, Berdych, Dimitrov - all possess the potential game to make it far in the tournament, indeed WIN it, but it will depend on the draw, the amount of time they spend on the court, during earlier rounds. The weather also can become a factor. Rain, will speed up the court, make it slicker and therefore better for the big servers and the huge forehands. Drier conditions will help the baseliners, and those that don't have the huge serve.

So many intangibles that could affect the outcome, aside from the draw. But Federer is in the running and it would surprise me more to see Nadal in the quarters and beyond, than to see Federer raise "the cup" three weeks from yesterday.

Draw out on Friday, and as usual, we'll all be wondering which of seeds 3 and 4 draw Djokovic or Nadal, where the aforementioned "younger guns" are placed, and guess we go from there, match by match, day by day. Haven't crunched the stats as yet, but will Nadal even be No 2 seed? So much to which we can look forward - seedings first, then draw.....hmmmm......looking forward to it......

Calder106 wrote:

laverfan wrote:One thing which made me smile yesterday, is the ability to transition between surfaces, even at this age. There are many younger players who have a harder time. Elsewhere, the "GOAT" debates should account for such factors as well.

Borg, IIRC, never played a Grass warm-up, and he could play on  Clay and Grass and adjust very well.

But I thought the surfaces nowadays were homogenous. Has the view on this suddenly changed ?

No it has not. Surfaces are closer but not the same. It still does require a transition. Some players find it easier, some do not. The number of UEs in Federer's case indicate that it is getting harder, but he still can do it reasonably. The loss to Stakhovsky shows what a good S&V player on a fast surface can do.

BTW, this has nothing to do with other players losing on Grass at other tourneys last week.

It also helps if you get more time to transition. Of the 4 finalists last week Federer got furthest in the FO but even then had a week and a half before his first grass court match. The others were out in either R1 or R2 of FO.

Don't agree with the premise of OP, Federer is far from mediocre, sure he has blips of concentration but his standard still isn't anywhere near mediocre. You might argue his draw opponents at Halle were though...Sousa, Lu, Nishikori, Falla...hardly top drawer proven grass opponents. He can only play to the level he's being pushed to.

Let's see where he is at Wimbledon.

lydian wrote:Don't agree with the premise of OP, Federer is far from mediocre, sure he has blips of concentration but his standard still isn't anywhere near mediocre.  You might argue his draw opponents at Halle were though...Sousa, Lu, Nishikori, Falla...hardly top drawer proven grass opponents. He can only play to the level he's being pushed to.

Let's see where he is at Wimbledon.

The real test for Federer is maintaining a degree of high consistency though is it not? I mean we all know within him he has the tennis talent (or had it to a higher degree of consistency). His problem now is inconsistency as he has more dips and these can lose him sets in matches he would have strolled before and then these extra sets played (for one in his early 30s now) wear him down for the bigger challenges of second week matches. Dips against top players and they won't let him back into matches hence his slam wins have dried up.

CaledonianCraig wrote:

lydian wrote:Don't agree with the premise of OP, Federer is far from mediocre, sure he has blips of concentration but his standard still isn't anywhere near mediocre.  You might argue his draw opponents at Halle were though...Sousa, Lu, Nishikori, Falla...hardly top drawer proven grass opponents. He can only play to the level he's being pushed to.

Let's see where he is at Wimbledon.

The real test for Federer is maintaining a degree of high consistency though is it not? I mean we all know within him he has the tennis talent (or had it to a higher degree of consistency). His problem now is inconsistency as he has more dips and these can lose him sets in matches he would have strolled before and then these extra sets played (for one in his early 30s now) wear him down for the bigger challenges of second week matches. Dips against top players and they won't let him back into matches hence his slam wins have dried up.

Spot on CC.

Those 'dips' are the major issue now. You can maybe escape against those he played against in Halle but you cannot afford to have a dip when you are serving out a set vs Nadal, Djokovic or Murray in say a semi or final as it will come back. This would apply to anyone around the top ten. Fed's poor returning was very apparent in Halle and against Sousa his serve kept him in it until things started working. I think at this stage of his career the draw is what is most important. A hard draw won't help but then again if the draw opens up its a case of x, y or z won only because....

At 5-3 serving for the set, and not closing it out shows how up-and-down he can be. It almost makes me think of Federer as Djokovic (apology to Nole fans - before I get chastised).

Also, vis-a-vis the opposition, Falla was beaten by Melzer at Den Bosch in straight sets, so the question on that side can be asked.

Nishikori was expected to be tougher, but seems to be following in his coach's footsteps and become good on Clay or HC, but somehow Grass is tougher for him. Chang (30-25-0) and Nishikori (17-16-0) are very similar.

Stepanek (or Llodra) would be a handful for Federer.

Calder106 wrote:It also helps if you get more time to transition. Of the 4 finalists last week Federer got furthest in the FO but even then had a week and a half before his first grass court match. The others were out in either R1 or R2 of FO.  

Yes, that should also be considered. When I mentioned Borg, he took the break in-between, rather than have more tourneys under his belt.

It is a tough transition to make.

Federer is once again looking jaded, something he was not at the start of the year when he seemed to be playing his way into great form again after 2013. Winning Halle is a good confidence booster but by no means is it a marker on how well he will do at Wimbledon. As Frew McMillan said, he's a contender/threat but not a favourite for the title. He can scream from the roof tops he has no pressure coming into Wimbledon and can play freely but the fact is he must be putting himself under a lot of pressure to win as he knows he hasn't many more years left to do it.

I think the difference this year though for Federer is that he comes into Wimbledon with his new racquet and new coach who himself liked the Grass so this dynamic could work positively for Federer.

It all rests on the draw. If he can play his way into tournament, then who knows.

With Djokovic's confidence issues, Rafa's fitness and Murray just coming back into form, Roger might have more of chance than some are giving him credit for.

lydian wrote:Don't agree with the premise of OP, Federer is far from mediocre, sure he has blips of concentration but his standard still isn't anywhere near mediocre.  You might argue his draw opponents at Halle were though...Sousa, Lu, Nishikori, Falla...hardly top drawer proven grass opponents. He can only play to the level he's being pushed to.

Let's see where he is at Wimbledon.

When I said Fed was mediocre I am talking from Fed's standards on grass and not from a normal ATP player and thats exactly the theme of the thread, a mediocre Fed still better than most players [current] on grass and it won't be easy to topple him even if he doesn't play his high standards.

I think consistency is indeed the key factor for Federer these days, and I'm in no doubt that consistency is harder and harder to maintain as age gradually catches up.

In the last couple of years or so, he has quite often played for spells (although mostly for occasional sets rather than whole matches) where you could be forgiven for thinking that he had never won a Slam in his life. The most striking example for me was when I was in Australia to watch this year's AO, and he played the Brisbane warm-up, apparently for the first time. In the opening set of the Final, he somehow managed to produce possibly the worst tennis I have EVER seen from him. It really was unbelievably poor. The commentators were actually struggling to find words. And I don't think Lleyton Hewitt could believe his luck either, as he grabbed the unexpected chance to chalk up only his second victory over Fed in the last ten years.

For his seventh Halle title last week, his form was good overall - but not totally convincing. His three opponents actually played very, very well - Sousa in set 1 was outstanding, and Falla pushed him to two TB's. Nishi was hitting the ball cleanly. Okay, none of them exactly top draw grass players, as lydian says, but not bad competitors on the surface either.

When Wimbledon comes around, I think Murray's early Queens exit will matter little and I see him putting up a very solid defence of his title. Difficult to gauge just how well Nadal and Djokovic will perform in the first week, but if they get through unscathed they are the major obstacles for all other hopefuls. Anyone outside these three is, for me, just that - an outsider. Irrespective of all else that's been going in the first half of 2014, these are the guys who remain best equipped for the two week slog of a Slam.

All that said, a brand new Champion would be nice .......  

Federer/Dimitrov final to appease the spectators preying on magic, intelligent, non grunting, beautiful, rib tingling definitive tennis. Steve Darcis, yes you, you have 1 job and 1 job only, defeat the fitness freaks and save the sport that made you famous for 2 weeks of the year. Nishikori?? I liked the way you bullied some dull clay courters not long ago, you know what your job is   

laverfan wrote:

Calder106 wrote:It also helps if you get more time to transition. Of the 4 finalists last week Federer got furthest in the FO but even then had a week and a half before his first grass court match. The others were out in either R1 or R2 of FO.  

Yes, that should also be considered. When I mentioned Borg, he took the break in-between, rather than have more tourneys under his belt.

It is a tough transition to make.

Yes that's right. I'm sure he would be getting plenty grass practice in during his time off. Djokovic did the same last year I think and got to Wimbledon final and has done the same this year. Just feel that the people that get to the sharp end of the FO are a bit undercooked on grass for the early tournaments. Might be different next year when there is a weeks difference between FO and Queens/Halle. Plus the fact they will be 500 events. Anyway well done to the winners and finalists of Queens and Halle. They did what was required and have the points in the bag.

dull clay courter with 3 hard court slams and 2 grass slams plus 8 hard court masters. wonder how many all-courters do better off clay than this said claycourter

naxroy wrote:dull clay courter with 3 hard court slams and 2 grass slams plus 8 hard court masters. wonder how many all-courters do better off clay than this said claycourter

to be precise, 19 players in the whole history of the sport have done better in non-clay slams than nadal. not bad for a claycourter

70% of Nadal's titles are on Clay

67% of Federer's titles are on Hardcourt

77% of Djokovic's titles are on Hardcourt

56% of Sampras's titles were on Hardcourt

46% of Borg's titles were on Clay

The most varied player by stats??

Step forward Ivan Lendl

29% on Clay 32% on Hardcourt and 35% on Carpet

and did lendl play totally diferent from one surface to another?

legendkillarV2 wrote:I think the difference this year though for Federer is that he comes into Wimbledon with his new racquet and new coach who himself liked the Grass so this dynamic could work positively for Federer.

It all rests on the draw. If he can play his way into tournament, then who knows.

With Djokovic's confidence issues, Rafa's fitness and Murray just coming back into form, Roger might have more of chance than some are giving him credit for.

Agreed, good post LK.

@LK.. Carpet tournaments were becoming rarer closer to 2000s and were defunct in 2008-2009 to become HC. The 2008 Carpet decision reduced the surfaces. There is still an argument about Carpet (faster than Grass) being agreed to by players for removal.

http://archivo.marca.com/edicion/marca/tenis/es/desarrollo/1179715.html

I think this has been quoted often - http://www.tennis28.com/charts/ATP_Surfaces_1971_2013.GIF

On Carpet, Federer played about 70 matches, with 2 titles, but Nadal played only 8 (perhaps by choice). Sampras played 188 matches for 15 titles. Agassi played 110 matches for 6 titles.

@NaxRoy Lendl played a varying game by surface, especially between Clay and HC. He agreed with Safin that Grass was for the cows.

If Murray goes to 3 for the seeding for Wimbledon does this push Roger to 5? Or has he enough grass points in the bank to go ahead of Wawrinka for 4?

There is, lets face it a big difference, between being seeded 4 and 5.

laverfan - your throwaway line on Lendl's attitude to grass is very much at odds with my own recollections based on many years of watching him at Wimbledon. I feel you do him an injustice.

Lendl was every bit as motivated to capture a Wimbledon trophy as he was the other Slams but - despite a total of fourteen attempts - it was not to be. But his overall record on the grass was very respectable indeed, as evidenced by two finals and five semis.

Given the considerable time he spent at Number One, there was a strong expectation (on the part of Lendl himself, the media, and most observers) that his efforts would eventually be rewarded. I remember very clearly his sense of anguish in the years where he fell at the final hurdle.

This was all noticeably different from Safin who - with the exception of just one Wimbledon SF - never really came close, but also never seemed too bothered anyway by what turned into a rather shabby W/L grass record

Johnyjeep wrote:If Murray goes to 3 for the seeding for Wimbledon does this push Roger to 5? Or has he enough grass points in the bank to go ahead of Wawrinka for 4?

There is, lets face it a big difference, between being seeded 4 and 5.

Federer's grass points do indeed get him the fourth spot :

Take ATP Entry System Position (ESP) points at 16 June 2014.
Add 100% points earned for all grass court tournaments in past 12 months.
Add 75% points earned for best grass court tournament in 12 months before that.

(from BBC sport)

full seedings for Wimbledon:

http://www.wimbledon.com/en_GB/news/articles/2014-06-18/seeds_announced_for_the_championships_2014.html

DJOKOVIC, Novak (SRB) [1]
NADAL, Rafael (ESP) [2]
MURRAY, Andy (GBR) [3]
FEDERER, Roger (SUI) [4]
WAWRINKA, Stan (SUI) [5]
BERDYCH, Tomas (CZE) [6]
FERRER, David (ESP) [7]
RAONIC, Milos (CAN) [8]
ISNER, John (USA) [9]
NISHIKORI, Kei (JPN) [10]
DIMITROV, Grigor (BUL) [11]
GULBIS, Ernests (LAT) [12]
GASQUET, Richard (FRA) [13]
TSONGA, Jo-Wilfried (FRA) [14]
JANOWICZ, Jerzy (POL) [15]
FOGNINI, Fabio (ITA) [16]
YOUZHNY, Mikhail (RUS) [17]
VERDASCO, Fernando (ESP) [18]
LOPEZ, Feliciano (ESP) [19]
ANDERSON, Kevin (RSA) [20]
DOLGOPOLOV, Alexandr (UKR) [21]
KOHLSCHREIBER, Philipp (GER) [22]
ROBREDO, Tommy (ESP) [23]
MONFILS, Gael (FRA) [24]
ALMAGRO, Nicolas (ESP) [25]
SEPPI, Andreas (ITA) [26]
CILIC, Marin (CRO) [27]
BAUTISTA AGUT, Roberto (ESP) [28]
GARCIA-LOPEZ, Guillermo (ESP) [29]
KARLOVIC, Ivo (CRO) [30]
GRANOLLERS, Marcel (ESP) [31]
TURSUNOV, Dmitry (RUS) [32]

First thoughts are that they're some really dangerous fourth round opponents for the top 4 (13-16 bracket): Tsonga, Gasquet, Janowicz. Should be some tasty R4 encounters certainly. Youzhny, Lopez also potential R4 opponents for the top 4.

3rd round main dangerman (for the top 8) would be Cilic IMO, and Karlovic can always be tricky early on.

lags72 wrote:laverfan - your throwaway line on Lendl's attitude to grass is very much at odds with my own recollections based on many years of watching him at Wimbledon. I feel you do him an injustice.

Lendl was every bit as motivated to capture a Wimbledon trophy as he was the other Slams but - despite a total of fourteen attempts - it was not to be. But his overall record on the grass was very respectable indeed, as evidenced by two finals and five semis.

Given the considerable time he spent at Number One, there was a strong expectation (on the part of Lendl himself, the media, and most observers) that his efforts would eventually be rewarded. I remember very clearly his sense of anguish in the years where he fell at the final hurdle.

This was all noticeably different from Safin who - with the exception of just one Wimbledon SF - never really came close, but also never seemed too bothered anyway by what turned into a rather shabby W/L grass record

I agree with that entirely. My memories of Lendl was someone who didn't fail to capture Wimbledon through a lack of trying, but he came up against some inspired opponents at the final hurdle. I think Lendl epitomised the very definition of what a pro player should be in trying to master all surfaces.

I wish there was more carpet events.

Does anyone up here feel the Wimbledon seeding being different to the ATP ranking has left a particular player at an advantage or disadvantage?

Based on the above and having a look 2013, Could we see another 'top heavy' section of the draw like last year or even at this years AO? For Murray, he will probably be looking to avoid being drawn with Nadal so that he has a great chance of reaching the final. For Federer I would imagine it to be the same. Or perhaps they are both hoping to be drawn with Nadal in the hope that someone in the early rounds may knock Nadal out? I think Murray/Nadal Final if they are not drawn together or have I completely lost the plot?

@LK/Lags... It was agony to watch Lendl not get at least one big W.

The Safin comparison may be bit overboard, and a bit unfair, in hindsight.

The 48-14 record at W for Lendl has loses to Becker/Edberg/Connors/McEnroe, nothing to be ashamed of. The loss to Leconte in 85 bothers me a bit, even though I should add that Leconte was a better player, IMVHO, compared to Safin on Grass.

Carpet is unlikely to come back.

The only player who could consider to be hard done to IMO is Wawrinka who would have had a top 4 seeding.

However he has gone out in the 1st Round at Wimbledon that last two years. That's no one elses fault but his own and seeding had no bearing on that at all. He also strikes me as the last player to be concerned by such a thing.

We saw after last years debacle on here about how seedings are worked out, that there is an awful lot of tennis to play before any potential match-up may or may not occur.

So is anyone at an advantage or disadvantage? Not for me. Could we see another 'top heavy' draw? Yes, we could. But that's the luck of the draw. That could happen any year. Seeding has no influence on that. Unless you were determine the seeding abitrarily after the draw has been done!

LF the 1985 defeat to Leconte I can say was frustrating too. Lendl just didn't show up that day.

It is a shame that carpet will never come back. Not to put a slant on today's players, but when you consider how varied the surfaces were years ago the players today certainly have more favourable conditions and environments.

Mad for Chelsea wrote:First thoughts are that they're some really dangerous fourth round opponents for the top 4 (13-16 bracket): Tsonga, Gasquet, Janowicz. Should be some tasty R4 encounters certainly. Youzhny, Lopez also potential R4 opponents for the top 4.

3rd round main dangerman (for the top 8) would be Cilic IMO, and Karlovic can always be tricky early on.

Tsonga, Gasquet & Janowicz certainly could be dangerous (I think they've all reached the SF at Wimbeldon in the past), but on current form, they are definitely an easier draw than likes of Nishikori or Dimitrov in the 9-12 slots.

Agree Cilic in R3 is the most dangerous, and not sure about how Bautista Agut might be on grass.

Best draw for a top 4 player maybe R3 Seppi/Granollers, R4 Fognini, QF Ferrer?

The seeding formula obviously helps Murray, but I do think it looks likely to create a fairly balanced draw. Biggest winner is the scheduler who avoids having to determine court assignment for Nadal, Federer and Murray on the same day as happened last year (with Nadal helping their job after day 1 obviously).

Helps Murray in that he can't play Djokovic or Nadal before semis and Federer before final. However the downside is that in the quarters he could meet Wawrinka, Berdych or Raonic. All big hitters who have got good records against him.

On the basis that if he was seeded 5-8, he would have had to face Nadal, Novak, Fed or Stan in the QF, I can't really see how that's a downside. Stan and Raonic are far weaker on grass than on other surfaces and it would be a good achievement for either of them to make the second week.

softest option draw for nadal:

semis: federer
quarters: wawrinka
4th round: fognini
3rd round: guillermo g lopez

hardest option draw for nadal:

semis: murray
quarters: berdych
4th round: gulbis
3rd round: kohlschreiber

but the question is, will he make it to third round?