Rafael Nadal - What Do You Do?

Rafael Nadal is having quite a difficult year. Lost his Wimbledon and US Open Crowns. Has lost his lion's share of the Clay titles. Infact this year he has lost 15 matches. That is his worst run of defeats since 2007 and his Hardcourt record loss sheet is it's worst since....correct 2007. So where has it all gone so wrong for the former World No.1? I like Rafa and I like his style of play and what he brings to the game of tennis, but I am very concerned. The hard work he has put in since 2007 to improve on all surfaces and win Grand Slam titles in the process. That cannot be faulted. If you are Rafa what do you do? What needs changing? Even when he won in Roland Garros, it still didn't seem like the Rafa of the year before that blitzed the field of Clay the year before. I have noticed the lack of 'Vamos's' by Rafa and Uncle Toni in the last 6 months. I think ever since Djokovic defeated him in those 4 successive finals, both Toni and Rafa have seemed dumbfounded by this new threat that has completely surpassed him this year. If I was a die-hard Rafa fan I would be annoyed at the lack of urgency that has gone missing in his game. I can't comment on the relationship between Rafa and Toni and whether things are slightly fragile between the two. I just don't know. All I know is what I have seen is quite negative in his game this year. In a way Murray like. He has gone into a slump and it appears at times he is clueless. Take the defeat to Tsonga yesterday. After that second set Rafa of old would've cleaned up that 3rd set 6-1 or 6-2. The foot would've been down and that was it. Now players have seen that in a BO3 Rafa is still vulnerable and now the game can be taken away from him. His flat BH up the line which is such a devastating shot and the best in the game is not working. His depth on the BH cross court is no longer containing the depth of old. The first serve is letting him down. He is giving a lot of free points away now in matches. It is sad to see. I would hate to see him vanish into the wilderness. He is a much better player than that. On the Hardcourts this year he has looked out of sorts and almost scared of the surface. It looks like he might prioritise Clay and give up on the Hard stuff like he did to 2007.

Having said all of that. If you were Rafa what would you do? What do you think needs addressing? Does Uncle Toni get his P45? Do you look to increase the power in the serve that served him well in 2010? Work hard on the BH and get it working again at it's potent best? Should he just focus on Clay from now on in?

intra-articular PRP injections + an egg chamber?

Rafa has perhaps lost a few matches more than one would expect this season however he has still been the second best player on tour.

At this pont in time I still think it is more of a confidence issue than a terminal decline, largely as a result of the tough losses to Novak.

It is difficult to tell how much of a slump this is and I think we will only truly know once he hits the clay season. If his clay results next year show further deterioration then the situation could get pretty tenuous. Rafa traditionally has used the clay season to gain momentum and confidence.

At this point in time I would still make him the second favourite on the slow HC's of Australia. He is still ahead of Federer and Murray in Bo5 formats.

If Rafa plays at the same level next year as he has done for most of this year he could definitely bag a couple of slams. After all the only person in his way is Novak and I'm pretty sure that Novak won't be as dominant next year as he was this year. The wheels have already started to come off somewhat.



emancipator

The only thing I noticed recently is that Nadal contrary to what we (and his opponents) have thought for years, doesn;t like too long rallies. He likes it when they are 10-20 long but even those he can't quite line them up one after the other for a long match. He will often try to play a short point in between. And he will more likely than not try to shorten the rallies after 15 rallies.

This is extremely important for players like Murray and Ferrer who can actually beat Nadal over the distance and therfor shoudl not be tempted to shorten the rallies.

Of course we had to have someone like Djoko to expose this fact cause no one wanted to challenge Nadal over the distance....bar Davydenko maybe before.

Already in 2005/6 Coria had exposed that, and if it wasn't for Coria amazing choking skills he woudl have beaten Nadal over the distance on a couple of 5 setters.

Djokovic's team certainly know that and I think teh knowledge is spreading through the rest of the field. More players might be tempted to engage in rallies v Nadal which should work against him. But it is important to have enough power (not too much) to make him run in the porocess. However he will make his opponent run too. There is no avoiding that.

At the end it comes down to a battle of lungs but though Nadal may have bigger lungs, he burns more energy than anybody on the tour (bar Monfils maybe ) and that is why he is vulnerable over the distance.

and if the time rules were enforced he'll suffer more than anyone.

I did not want to go there! but you are dead right

Ha ha! Don't get too excited Tenez and legenkiller he will be ok.

hawkeye wrote:Ha ha! Don't get too excited Tenez and legenkiller he will be ok.

Care to elaborate?

Can't see anywhere in my article 'excitement' as it was a genuine question.

Funny how Fed fans have made 'constructive' points whereas a Nadal fan like yourself can only afford a sentence.

Amusing

"Any year you win a slam is a good year"

- Tiger Woods

LK - some of the fedfans comments are constructive regarding your actual article thread premise, some are more about the usual usual lungs, physique, Nadal's "time wasting", etc. You'll not get many constructive replies from even mild Nadal sympathisers when anything to do with him on this forum tends to result in bashing against the guy. I'm certainly not a dyed in the wool fan of his but have little motiovation to post about him on here, anyone posting about him tends to get drowned out. I'd say for a popular tennis player solidly ranked #2 in the world for some time this forum is unusually light on Nadal fans vs other forums around...no idea why that could be!! People writing in general about Nadal's career as being in terminal decline is a little premature - he's simply mentally worn out at the moment, not so much physically - most of his latter problems have been due to that and a loss of passion for the game after USO. But in the scheme of things he's still been the 2nd best player overall this year. He'll be back afresh next year (DC on clay notwithstanding). All players go through slump periods, Federer himself did not too long ago...it happens.

It's worth bearing in mind Nadal tends to typically performance best from after the Aussie Open to just after Wimbledon. So despite his lack of titles recently, it doesn't necessarily mean a decline. For that we need to see him go slamless next year and lose a majority of his clay court titles. That would be clear evidence of a decline because as has often been seen, if he can't perform on clay, he's got next to nothing left in terms of titles (this year is amble proof).

One match which gets forgotten in this Nadalovic discussion is one that Isner-Nadal played at RG 2011. The second and third set were very interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPIR8TO8puk

The thing I have noticed about Rafa this year is his lack of enjoyment of the game - he has made a few references, during the FO when he spoke of feeling like he had been playing for 100 years. He has spoken about length of season, ranking change and other issues with a little bit of not bitterness exactly, more truculence.

I think the boy is tired mentally more than anything and he probably is at the age where he needs to be allowed to be a man - I don't think his tight knit family, one of whom is his coach has perhaps allowed too many areas of his life that are his own - v different from most young men of 25.

To me, the things about Toni in his autobiography were illuminating. I think everyone who has seen Rafa practice or Toni on court, and even those peculiar nervous tics of Rafa, suspected that Toni very much had Rafa 'under control'. I actually think some of his methods were abusive, to be quite honest, and I think there is a little of Rafa that is resentful at the moment and that lack of joy is plain for all to see. With the enjoyment, I think he might have turned around some of the finals against Nole just by his force of will, which wasn't there.

Of course, Nole played magnificently and much better than Rafa - but Rafa was not enjoying the challenge, and that was what was missing. I don't think the rest of his game has gone off, I agree with Tenez that it is much what it ever was but it lacks the 'brute force' and Rafa himself agrees with this, saying this week that he had lost the 'explosiveness' which troubled his opponents before.

Is that an inevitable effect of miles on the clock; just not hitting peak form this year; mental tiredness; or just a slackening off of deepest fight/motivation/desire?

One thing I am sure is that if he rediscovers that absolute love of competition, he will be as good as ever. I think the clay DC final will fill him with confidence and send him into 2012 in a better place.

I have to say for his general well-being, it is surely time for him to reassess his relationship with Toni - if TN is the best coach, then stick with him for that, but this ridiculous PR by Toni all the time exceeds the coaching role and I think is harming his nephew.

lydian wrote:LK - some of the fedfans comments are constructive regarding your actual article thread premise, some are more about the usual usual lungs, physique, Nadal's "time wasting", etc.

Do you really think you can write "constructive" comments on Nadal chance to improve while overlooking the physical aspect of his game?

"you must be jocking!!!

Skill level aside, I think we all just throw in wild speculations here anyway, (for all we know his topspin forehand takes more skill and timing than all of Feds shots combined) he has a very effective game that as it is, still has the potential to trouble Novak. Most of the time his forehand is fine and I think his game is a 'complete game' for what it is. But then so is Novak's so all it comes down to is making some of the shots that he's missed and he would have beaten Novak on many occasions this year. Perhaps his focus hasn't completely been there which goes back to what time please is saying. If that assessment of him is accurate then he just needs to sort his life out. His tennis is fine.

time please wrote: I think the clay DC final will fill him with confidence and send him into 2012 in a better place.

Last year, Djokovic took inspiration from his December 2010 DC win and went on a rampage in 2011.

Nadal winning the DC in Dec 2011, may give him confidence to go on a similar tryst with Fate and resurrect some of his lost glory.

Wonder if he can modify his current style and try a quick-and-short-point approach rather than a long rallying one.

laverfan wrote:

time please wrote: I think the clay DC final will fill him with confidence and send him into 2012 in a better place.

Last year, Djokovic took inspiration from his December 2010 DC win and went on a rampage in 2011.

Nadal winning the DC in Dec 2011, may give him confidence to go on a similar tryst with Fate and resurrect some of his lost glory.

Wonder if he can modify his current style and try a quick-and-short-point approach rather than a long rallying one.

Possibly. And I ws wondering whether Usain Bolt might switch to the Marathon for the 2016 Olympics too.

bogbrush wrote:Possibly. And I ws wondering whether Usain Bolt might switch to the Marathon for the 2016 Olympics too.

I am surprised that you are unwilling to think of Nadal improving. Did you forget about 130+ mph serves @USO 2010?

Murray improved to win in the Asian swing. Djokovic improved to best Nadal in 2011, so why should Nadal be the only one incapable of improving?

laverfan

You are wasting your time. Certain posters are unwilling to contemplate anything other than decline for Nadal. Then when he doesn't talk is switched to how his wins are due to his sneaky ways with waterbottles and taking too long to serve etc etc. It all goes in circles.

HE... it is still worth asking the question, though?

That question exposes bias very well.

I think there is room for improvement in Nadal's game.

It is by no means a closed book.

I sympathise with him because he looks like he is in a bad place at the moment and it just asks the question what can be changed for the better of Nadal.

I can understand why many posters are asking questions. Nadal has now ended up winning less titles than Murray or Federer, yet Nadal made the finals of 3 grand slams (in fact a total of 10 tournament finals), whereas Murray and Fed only made one apiece. Of course this doesn't mean his game is falling apart but Nadal hasn't typically got his game on track in time for the Aussie Open (apart from 2009 when he was on a roll from his epic Wimbledon win in 2008).

Until Nadal scores a victory over Djokovic and less importantly Federer, I think posters (but especially Federer fans) will remain sceptical that he will improve enough to beat his main rival. Plus, with the possibility that Djokovic may not be fully recovered in time for the Aussie Open in 2012, I think the only person most will see poised to take advantage of that will be Fed, which is quite a turnaround given how many thought the chances of Fed winning another slam was less than 50% (well, socal @ least).

laverfan wrote:

bogbrush wrote:Possibly. And I ws wondering whether Usain Bolt might switch to the Marathon for the 2016 Olympics too.

I am surprised that you are unwilling to think of Nadal improving. Did you forget about 130+ mph serves @USO 2010?

Murray improved to win in the Asian swing. Djokovic improved to best Nadal in 2011, so why should Nadal be the only one incapable of improving?

That's not what I'm saying laverfan; an improved serve is one thing (it's the one shot they have 100% control of after all) but changing from a grinder to a killer shotmaker? Is JWT going to turn grinder while he's at it?

LF,

I'd be interested to know where you see realistic improvement in Nadal's tennis?

Dr Cortorro's on the case, never fear!

laverfan wrote:HE... it is still worth asking the question, though?

That question exposes bias very well.

No need to expose what's plain to see.

break_in_the_fifth wrote:

laverfan wrote:HE... it is still worth asking the question, though?

That question exposes bias very well.

No need to expose what's plain to see.

Oh ok, you think Nadal can switch to being a short point player then?

Remember - if you don't, you must be biased against him. Those are the rules in the wacky world of the Rafalitos.

Not at all. He doesn't need to be a short point player, just a shorter point player. Maybe someone with 10 slams could make that adjustment.

break_in_the_fifth wrote:(for all we know his topspin forehand takes more skill and timing than all of Feds shots combined)

This is a very wrong statement. Happy to explain another day.

noleisthebest wrote:LF,

I'd be interested to know where you see realistic improvement in Nadal's tennis?

Nadal uses a DHBH and flattens it CC. His FH seems to have become a liability of late, because of the insane amount of topspin he wants to impart and the subsequent need for higher energy. As Nadal gets older, it will be harder to maintain such control. Hence a flatter FH with lesser topspin, should become a more frequently used shot.

Watching the Nadal-Tsonga match, Nadal kept pounding Tsonga's BH (like he does with Federer), but with both an SHBH and a DHBH, Tsonga, just made mincemeat of such shots.

Nadal's movement to his FH side seems to be slower (moving towards his left), perhaps being a natural RH. It looks like an area of improvement.

Net points and volleying skills can be improved further.

Just some observations.

If Nadal ever played that game - flatter forehand, less topspin - I can think of certain players who would queue up to play him. Federer would be at the front of that queue.

Nadal would take a battering.

laverfan wrote:Nadal uses a DHBH and flattens it CC.

How many points a match does this shot give him? 1? 2?

His FH seems to have become a liability of late, because of the insane amount of topspin he wants to impart and the subsequent need for higher energy. As Nadal gets older, it will be harder to maintain such control. Hence a flatter FH with lesser topspin, should become a more frequently used shot.

It's only a liability because the rest of the field have learnt tp handle it. Every weapon is found out on the tour.

Nadal's movement to his FH side seems to be slower (moving towards his left), perhaps being a natural RH. It looks like an area of improvement.

It's not his mouvement that slowed down, it's the power of Tsonga's shots that really made him look slower....knowing he has to keep closer to his BH makes him more vulnerable on his FH.

Net points and volleying skills can be improved further.

What> for the 2 points a match he plays at the net? not worth it. But I know he'll come back pumped up like never the second weeks of slams as usual but now I doubt it will be enough.

Tenez you really need to stop worrying about an All Time Greats tennis ability. When he's playing well if not unbeatable he's the nearest thing to being unbeatable. His match win/loss record, H2H record with all players (including all of the other members of top 4), and his impressive trophy cabinet all prove this.

He does not need to change anything about his shot production or game style to continue to win. He just needs to play well. It says much that it is often his opponant who is forced to change his game style to have chances to beat him.

Tsonga beat him in a close match this week. This was Tsonga at his very best and a sub par Nadal. Just a few weeks ago the outcome was completely different. Nadal destroyed Tsonga 6-0 6-2 6-4.

I know you don't like him as a personality and you don't enjoy watching his playing style. Tastes differ and no-one is forcing you to watch. Thats your view but it isn't shared by the majority. He is second only to Federer in terms of Box Office appeal and he still has a chance to surpass him in terms of achievement...

laverfan wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:LF,

I'd be interested to know where you see realistic improvement in Nadal's tennis?

Nadal uses a DHBH and flattens it CC. His FH seems to have become a liability of late, because of the insane amount of topspin he wants to impart and the subsequent need for higher energy. As Nadal gets older, it will be harder to maintain such control. Hence a flatter FH with lesser topspin, should become a more frequently used shot.

Watching the Nadal-Tsonga match, Nadal kept pounding Tsonga's BH (like he does with Federer), but with both an SHBH and a DHBH, Tsonga, just made mincemeat of such shots.

Nadal's movement to his FH side seems to be slower (moving towards his left), perhaps being a natural RH. It looks like an area of improvement.

Net points and volleying skills can be improved further.

Just some observations.

Thanks LF.

I reckon the way Nadal haas looked recently, weird as it may sound, he'd actually benefit from faster conditions. His speed remains his only healthy asset at the moment.

Certainly against Djokovic. I cannot see any way he beats Djokovic on a slow court now, he simply gets run into the ground.

On faster courts I think he can maybe turn the tables a bit (see US Open, where I think Djokovic looked like falling apart until Nadal cramped).

i agree with BB,

I believe Nadal had adapted his game sufficiently to become a potent medium/fast HC player in 2010.

He was playing more aggressively, flattening his FH out slightly, playing closer to the baseline, serving big and finishing points off at the net. His BH was also more stable but he hadn't quite recaptured the flatter CC BH that he had in 2009/09.

All of these adaptations were visible during the USO and the subsequent Asian swing and were clearly made to make him a more effective player on the faster HC's.

Conversely on slower HC's his main weapon, the FH (inside out, inside in and occasionally dtl) is blunted. Indeed, his record at the USO exceeds his record at the AUS open.

However, I do think that these changes are the ceiling of improvement for Nadal. I believe that the best he can hope for is a return to the more aggressive version seen in 2010. I would be very surprised if he were to be able to add anything more (eg a consistent flat BH dtl, punch volleys etc), but then again I don't think he needs to. The 2010 or the 2008/9 version (more explosive, better stamina) were pretty formidable.

bogbrush wrote:If Nadal ever played that game - flatter forehand, less topspin - I can think of certain players who would queue up to play him. Federer would be at the front of that queue.

The same Federer who could not close a match @5-4 yesterday.

bogbrush wrote:Nadal would take a battering.

He has not played using some of the suggested improvements, and you have already passed judgement. Perhaps you should wait after the Dec DC in Spain before you make a judgement.

Tenez wrote:How many points a match does this shot give him? 1? 2?

I am referring to future changes. You and BB seem to have no concept of possibilities, just absolutes.

Should I have said the same thing after Djokovic lost the USO 2010?

Tenez wrote:It's only a liability because the rest of the field have learnt tp handle it. Every weapon is found out on the tour.

So? Including a 130+ mph serve.

Tenez wrote:It's not his mouvement that slowed down, it's the power of Tsonga's shots that really made him look slower....knowing he has to keep closer to his BH makes him more vulnerable on his FH.

What happened to the same power in Beijing against Berdych?
Each match is different.

Tenez wrote:What> for the 2 points a match he plays at the net? not worth it.

Do you have any basis for that ? He has not started coming to the net yet, has he?

Tenez wrote:But I know he'll come back pumped up like never the second weeks of slams as usual but now I doubt it will be enough.

We shall see.

I believe there are 2 areas that Nadal is struggling in at the moment.

The BH up the line. He seems to be hitting it far too hard and flat and as a result is finding the net on a much more consistent basis. Not sure why he has decided to add further power to the shot, I think if he took just a tad more pace off it, he might find the line on much more regular basis.

His FH is no longer finding the depth it used to. In a way he is playing a Murray-like length and is finding himself on the back foot in rallies immediately. This is something that Djokovic exploited a great deal on the clay and something Tsonga attacked in his victory on Thursday. If he can go back to finding a longer depth on the FH up the court, he would not find himself watching the ball coming back with much more purchase on it.

These areas need tightening up if he is to compete against Federer, Djokovic and even Tsonga.

Laverfan, your comments in respect of mine are irelevent. So RF didn't serve out against Tsonga? What's that got to do with him eating a Nadal trying to play flat and risky for breakfast?

On the 2nd I can assure you he'll not be flattening out the forehand at the forthcoming DC final. Are you seriously suggesting otherwise?

I've always said Rafa prefers slightly faster conditions. I agree with Hawkeye to some extent in that we're trying to ask what needs to be done when there isnt much thats needed other than getting his mojo back barring the odd tweak.

When Rafa is on top of his game he's very very difficult to beat by anyone. Djokovic probably had to have the season of the century to keep Rafa at bay...and he was pushed the whole way. I dont personally believe Djokovic can sustain that level of play whereas we have seen Rafa can do across multiple seasons (hence his achievements). Rafa's FH is fine as it is and this the style of shot cant be changed into more flatness or else he would need to change his technique completely to do that. But anyway - why change something that's completely unique in the game (and it is)? Its his main weapon, a weapon thats misfiring at the moment but will come back. Why change it? He just needs to get his head straight and start grooving it again.

The only area I think he can improve is on the BH side. That side seems to have gone backwards technically to me, he seems to have lost the DTL BH completely...he also needs to work on his length in general, it was much better in 2010, he;s been short pretty much all of 2011 - I dont believe he's hitting through the ball properly due to loss of confidence. But that can be worked on easily with rest, focus and renewed spirit. If he can do that he can again become the player to beat on tour. We'll see...

bogbrush wrote:Laverfan, your comments in respect of mine are irelevent. So RF didn't serve out against Tsonga? What's that got to do with him eating a Nadal trying to play flat and risky for breakfast?

If Nadal were to play 'flat' and 'risky' tennis, he [Nadal] could play like Tsonga (the power is there), hence the comment.

Please do not take the mention of Federer as a personal attack on you. We are discussing Tennis here. . I am not attacking Federer here, but just pointing out specifically Federer's current challenges.

bogbrush wrote:On the 2nd I can assure you he'll not be flattening out the forehand at the forthcoming DC final. Are you seriously suggesting otherwise?

I am not suggesting he change his clay game, but rather his HC approach. He seems to do well on grass (albeit the surface is slower now) since he go to the final of W 2011.

Lydian, I agree in the main regarding his FH; it's a unique shot and the topspin is very difficult to handle for most players.

However, I do believe that he has been playing with too much spin recently, playing safer, and thus dropping the ball short. He doesn't need to 'flatten' it out as such (and you're right asking him to play with a flat FH would negate his main strength and is not possible given his grip and technique) but he could hit it with slightly less top spin and thus get the ball deeper. He was doing this last year at the USO. It makes his FH more of a potent weapon and allows him to end points quicker - which is where I believe he has really struggled against Novak, being unable to find a way to end points without a mistake from his opponent.

The increasingly loopy, spinny FH is reminiscent of the shot he employed on the clay courts in his earlier years. It doesn't cut it on the HC's.

There are various technical reasons why playing flatter tennis isnt really going to happen for Nadal...look at the way he ends his FH strokes with the windscreen wiper around his head (which is pretty unique), to go flat he'd have to change that follow through completely and he's not about to overturn 20 years of muscle memory, nor should do. There's also the timing aspect to be considered also regarding areas such as the stretch-shortening cycle which is key to today's explosive FHs. To hit flat would require re-engineering of key elements of Nadal's SSC and its just not going to happen consistently. Plus of course his grip (Western) doesnt lend itself to flatness (as it doesnt for others with that grip). Thats not to say he cant hit flat from time to time, but thats not his core game, nor should be in my opinion - he's won 10 slams and countless other things with his current FH, all against players who are currently on tour. There is no need for radical change other than whats going on between his ears.

Its an interesting technical debate emancipator, depth doesnt necessarily mean more or less topsin needs to be applied, it can be affected by trajectory of the ball with the same amount of spin. I think him dropping short is a confidence issue...in that he's standing further and further behind the baseline again so he's losing a few metres already through sheer positioning. He was playing much better in 2010 by being nearer the baseline, I'm not convinced about the spin argument...I think only Rafa could comment on whether he's applying more or less spin to be honest, I personally think he's not hitting the ball as hard generally, less energy on it, so its got less spin and less forward momentum combined. At WTF he was even hitting it into the net alot which I've never really seen him do much before so he's got his trajectory all wrong also. But agree that he's got some "issues" to sort out on that side....which I think are linked to mental issues and committing to the shot.

He was rubbish at the WTF in 2009 and that didn't herald a poor 2010, so it would be illogical to panic.
I guess Djokovic has changed things, and maybe being a couple of years older is a factor too (but only 25!) but on the whole we do have evidence that a bad WTF means nothing for the next year.

Quite right BB.
...am I right in thinking there's only around 12 mths difference between Rafa and Nole? Amazing when you think of Nadal has achieved already and a sign of how much longer he's been at peak on tour...its onlt right to assume Djokovic has more miles under his legs yet given he's ran a lot less of them to date!

lydian wrote:Quite right BB.
...am I right in thinking there's only around 12 mths difference between Rafa and Nole? Amazing when you think of Nadal has achieved already and a sign of how much longer he's been at peak on tour...its onlt right to assume Djokovic has more miles under his legs yet given he's ran a lot less of them to date!

Like it or not, Nole's time has just begun, YEAAAAAHH

he hasn't been the same since he cured his butt-picking epidemic, so in light of this i recommend he performs sand in the pants operation.

You Know it makes Sense

It's not that long ago that Rafa was being written off as he had gone almost a year without winning a single tournament. He bounced back and will probably do so again.
It's not as if he's had a bad season. It's remarkable how people say that sonmeone who reaches a final and loses has, somehow, failed, yet little is said of players who go out in the early rounds.

Answer to the OP - what he has done pretty much every year since 2005 except for 2009, it's not exactly let him down much so far.