England EPS

Is there a new England squad announced? If there is...when?

Including replacing the retirees who would you change....

Foden, Armitage, Cueto, Banahan, Ahston,
Tuilagi, Tindall, Hape,
Wilkinson, Flood
Youngs, Wigglesworth, Simpson,
Easter, Wood, Moody, Haskell, Croft,
Shaw, Lawes, Deacon,
Wilson, Stevens, Sheridan, Corbisiero, Cole,
Thompson, Mears, Hartley

Looks pretty horrific doesn't it?

I would put in a squad something like below:

Foden,Armitage,Sharples,Short,Ashton
Tuilagi,Barritt,Trinder
Flood,Burns
Youngs,Dickson,Care
Easter,Wood,Robshaw,Croft,Seymour
Lawes,Robson,Garvey
Marler,Corbisiero,Cole,Stevens,PDJ
Webber,Hartley,Gray

Wouldn't have any complaints if that was the case Beshocked.

I wonder if any new coach will have input? Anyway

Foden,Armitage,Sharples,May,Ashton
Tuilagi,Barritt,Trinder
Flood,Farrell
Youngs,Dickson,Care
Waldroum,Wood,Robshaw,Croft,(Gibson?)
Lawes,Parling,Attwood
Marler,Corbisiero,Cole,Stevens,PDJ
Paice,Hartley,Gray

You going to the game tonight GF?

Mine is pretty close to Beshocked (even used the old copy and paste from his post to begin )

Foden, Armitage, Sharples, Ashton,
Tuilagi, Barritt, Trinder, Farrell
Flood, Burns
Youngs, Dickson, Care
Easter, Wood, Robshaw, Croft, Gibson
Lawes, Parling (if fit, Garvey if not), Deacon, Attwood,
Mullen, Corbisiero, Cole, Stevens, PDJ
Hartley, Gray, Paice (as long as he sorts out his throwing)

Just missing out, Joeseph, Wade, Marler, Garvey, Robson

From that, based on current form I would like the following 15 to begin

Foden, Ashton, Sharples
Barritt, Tuilagi
Youngs, Flood
Corbisiero, Hartley, Cole (close call, needs to offer a bit more around the park)
Lawes, Parling
Wood, Croft, Easter

Grey, Stevens, Attwood, Robshaw
Dickson, Burns, Armitage

Aren't your squads a bit light? The EPS is usually 32/33 players?


Corbisero, Marler, Cole, Stevens, Mullan
Hartley, Gray, Webber
Lawes, Robson, Parling, Attwood
Wood, Croft, Wallace, Robshaw, Easter, Dowson

Youngs, Care, Simpson
Flood, Burns, Farrell/Twelvetrees (last two are just backups here, more likely to feature at centre)
Barritt, Tuilagi, Trinder, Joseph (JJ as a centre/wing and possibly match day 23 on the bench)
Ashton, Sharples, May/Wade
Foden, Brown

Some cracking choices in there. Would be good to see Dickson in the squad.

do we really think that the following players will all be removed from the squad?

banahan
cueto
tindall
hape
wilkinson
wigglesworth
moody
haskell
shaw
wilson
sheridan
thompson
mears

Thats a very large chunk of the squad to be replaced in one go, i just dont belive its gonna happen guys.

i believe that moody, thompson and shaw are the only ones to have officially retired from test rugby.

i know there are some injuries to contend with but those players generally have kept their place and replacements have been called up where necessary.

i think we may be dreaming of an overhaul but will the temporary coaching setup have the balls?

i wouldnt be suprised to see at least half the list above retain their places, including those playing in france. the 3 retirees and haskell could be the only names missing.

Haskell won't be available, despite being England's top performer during the world cup.

banahan Who knows - if his club form is good (and I have no idea) - will still be there
cueto should go
tindall Should go
hape gone?
wilkinson cant see him being there
wigglesworth injured all season
moody retired
haskell overseas
shaw retired
wilson as banahan really
sheridan Injured? - not heard anything on his progress
thompson retired
mears difficult - given the number of new players and the absence of thompson he may well be retained

I expect to see something like this:

foden, armitage, ashton, cueto, banahan
tuilagi, tindall, barritt, hape
flood, wilkinson, hodgeson
youngs. care, simpson

corbiseiro, sheridan, cole, stevens, PDJ
hartley, mears, grey
lawes, palmer, deacon, attwood
croft, wood, easter, robshaw, waldrom

I had a dream last night and the following team was announced:

Foden
Sharples
Trinder
Tuilagi
Short
Flood
Youngs
Dowson
Wood
Robshaw
Robson
Lawes
Doran-Jones
Webber
Marler

Apparently Ashton was dropped from the EPS for being discourteous to the tea lady.

Changes to make a 32 EPS

Foden, Armitage, Cueto, Banahan, Ahston, Monye
Tuilagi, Tindal, Hape, FluteyTrinder, Allen
Wilkinson, Flood, Burns, Hodgson?
Youngs, Wigglesworth, Simpson, Is there anyone else?
Easter, Wood, Moody, Haskell, Croft, Robshaw, Narraway
Shaw, Lawes, Deacon, AttwoodRobson Palmer (if available?)
Wilson, Stevens, Sheridan, Corbisiero, Cole, PDJ
Thompson, Mears, Hartley, God Knows but not Chuter, Paice

I agree that theres no point in ditching all the old players at once, especially with just a temporary coach. Theres little point in bringing a load of kids in only for the permamanet coach to kick half of them straight back out again and call up a different bunch...but theres quite a few like Mears who simply have to go or perhaps never should have been there in the first place.
Big problem area has to be hooker, there seems to be a lost generation there.


Does anyone know of the top of their heads who Lancaster favourites in the Saxons were?

Corbisiero, Marler, Cole, Sheridan, PDJ
Hartley, Gray, Webber
Lawes, Attwood, Robson, Parling (hopefully the last 2 will be fit)
Croft, Wood (6&7), Robshaw (6,7&8), Wallace/Gibson, Easter

Youngs, Care, Simpson
Flood, Burns
Barritt, Twelvetrees, Tuilagi, Trinder
Ashton, Sharples, Wade, Short
Foden, Brown

L/H Corbs, Marler, Sheridan
Hooker Webber, Hartley
T/H Cole, Stevens
Lock Lawes, Atwood, Garvey, Robson
Back Row Wallace, Croft, Wood, Robshaw, Easter
S/H Youngs, Young, Simpson
F/H Flood, Ford, Burns
Centre Tuilagi, 36, Barritt, Joseph, Trinder
Wing Ashton, Sharples, Benjamin, Banahan
FB Foden, Armitage

It looks like a lot of us are on the same wavelength. Some very good squad selections. So much better than the squad that went to the world cup.

Does anyone know any good rugby stats websites?

Beshocked, I use espnscrum.com, very detailed

Captain Tremendous Mr Hudson had a great game yesterday.....

So with 4 years left until the home World Cup we have nothing to lose by getting in a load of new faces. Of course it would be better to slowly introduce new players into an experienced squad that has already tasted success, but given the need for a fresh start I think it's time for a proper clear out. I know people use the 6N to justify short term conservative decisions when it comes to the playing squad, but in reality the competition comes around year after year and long term success is surely more desirable than a few years of 'being competitive' without really building anything of substance.

With that in mind I think a playing style should be settled upon and only players who are likely to be playing in 2015 should be selected.

Props:

Corbisiero
Cole
Marler
PDJ
Mullan

Hookers:

Hartley
Gray
Webber

SR:

Lawes
Parling
Attwood
Palmer

BR:

Wood (c)
Croft
Robshaw
Narraway
An OPENSIDE?!? Seen Wallace and Seymour mentioned

SH:

Youngs
Dickson
Simpson/Young

FH:

Flood
Burns

IC:

Farrell
Twelvetrees

OC:

Tuilagi
Trinder

Outside Backs:

Foden
Ashton
Sharples
Brown
Wade

It looks so much better than recent squads - no players past their peak, no one trick ponies, plenty of players in successful club teams and most importantly there are plenty of leaders in there too.

I really hope Webber has no part to play, not a big fan of his at all. We're looking a little short at hooker after Hartley tbh.

Gray isn't first choice at Quins, Webber cannot scummage, Mears is injured and Tommo gone. Let's hope Dylan doesn't get injured!

I think Webber is a good player to be honest.

Webber has looked like your typical back row forward converted to hooker. Far less able at scrummaging and throwing.

Wasn't Thompson like that to begin with?

Yeah was pretty hopeless at throwing when he ended his career too.

Poor Tommo! Cracking scrummager though, always preferred Lindsay to Webber, never understood why he doesnt start ahead of him.

Just watched Wasps/Quins game, if Robshaw isn't starting for England in 6N I'm going to start following Ireland!

Isnt there a problem with Lindsays throwing aswell....

I think it was more Wasps having zero options. Both Webber and Lindsay have looked pretty tidy with Wentzal making the calls. Just think Lindsay looks much stronger in the scrum when I've seen him

I think Robshaw should be England's long term option at openside. He seems very versatile in the backrow, and although he may not be a natural openside, I don't think it will matter if the balance is right between the rest of the backrow.

The EPS changes I would make...

Mike Brown - Mark Cueto
Dom Waldouck - Mike Tindall
Brad Barritt - Shontayne Hape
Owen Farrell - Jonny Wilkinson
Danny Care - Richard Wigglesworth
Thomas Waldrom - Nick Easter
Chris Robshaw - Lewis Moody
Dave Attwood - Simon Shaw
George Robson - Louis Deacon
Joe Marler - Andrew Sheridan
David Paice - Steve Thompson
Rob Webber - Lee Mears

+ R.Lamb
+ M.Garvey
+ C.Fearns (if not fit Luke Wallace)

Just to point out that Gray is first choice at Quins. But due to his age and the replacement being almost as good (there's almost nothing in it) they're rotated weekly.

The same would happen with the props if the replacements were reliable and not injured.

Corbisero, Mullan, Marler, Cole, Stevens
Hartley, Gray, Paice
Lawes, Robson, Parling, Garvey
Wood, Croft, Wallace, Robshaw, Easter

Youngs, Care, Simpson
Flood, Burns, Farrell
Barritt, Tuilagi, Twelvetrees, Trinder, Joseph
Ashton, Sharples, Wade, May, Foden, Brown

beshocked wrote:Does anyone know any good rugby stats websites?

The Telegraph is good for individual player stats, particularly the 'Player vs Player' option from the drop down menu, which goes into good detail and eases comparison between options.

the telegraph.

thanks for that, excellant stats

Squad of 32:

LH Prop

Marler, Corbisiero

Hooker

Gray, Webber, Hartley

TH Prop

Cole, Doran-Jones

Lock

Attwood, Lawes, Robson, Garvey

Back Row

Robshaw (c), Wood, Seymour, Dowson, Narraway, Easter

Scrum-Half

Care, Youngs, Simpson

Fly-Half

Flood, Farrell

Centre

Twelvetrees, Turner-Hall, Tuilagi, Trinder, Lowe

Wing

Sharples, Monye, Ashton

Full Back

Foden, Brown


I feel like attention needs to be paid to the positions we have really neglected and underestimated as being integral to building a top international squad, namely the lineout, back row and the centres. What the English have traditionally seen as being the fundamental ingredients in international rugby (powerful, scrummaging front 3/5 and control at 10) are still important but not without adapting to the modern game. Increasingly, a higher supply of good lineout ball really puts a team on the front foot and a multi-talented centre partnership is so crucial to continuing the forward momentum during and after the first phase. The game has also, with recent law changes, placed a new emphasis on the ruck being perhaps the fulcrum of everything a great international team does - both with the ball (securing RAPID ball) and when defending (slowing down the opponent and pilfering as much as is remotely possible).

Thus, there is more cover in my squad for the back row and centres and the lineout options across the back 5 have to be strong throughout every game (when replacements are made, the lineout should not suffer).

Short explanation of my squad selection:

For once we appear a little weak in the front row department. Loosehead is a real worry, but I think in the circumstances, Lancaster and Rowntree should look to install some new faces with real potential. This probably means Corbs will carry on his development as starter with Cole providing a little more experience and know-how on the anchoring side. Hartley is and always has been for me very unimpressive in an England shirt and if it wasn't for the inexperience across the front row I would throw Joe Gray straight in (he's having a storming run in the Quins set up). Gray to come off the bench if/when Hartley remains anonymous. Locks can rotate - both starting locks just need to go back to the old school of locking down: offer something in the boiler room of the scrum and around the edge of the rucks in the loose and be quality lineout operators (all 4 of my picks are just that). Robshaw should lead the new era as captain from the back row and with the flanking options available I would be in favour of England adopting the kind of right and left flanker tactics that have seen the southern hemisphere packs and France often dominate at the breakdown. In that way, Robshaw and Wood with their tireless work ethics would operate in both blindside and openside roles and not feel restricted or confined to doing the work of one or the other. I really think they both perform all the tasks a modern flanker must to the highest degree - why tell them "just do this"? Nick Easter to start at Number 8, simply because of a lack of options. I really see Haskell coming back and taking this spot and it's a shame he's not around now otherwise I think it would be his. Would like to see the likes of Guest and Fearns coming back strongly after their injury spells but I don't think they will be able to put together a case in time for this February.

In the backs, on form, Care probably starts at scrum-half but really needs to play like he plays for Quins if he's to stay there. I think he's been held back by England coaches in the past, hopefully this time he will be more free to play his own way as he does so successfully for Quins. Flood to start at 10 with Farrell coming off the bench for the last 20, then 30 in games, building up his experience at this level. He seems ready to go straight in though. He gives me so much hope for the future and for a solid 2015 WC campaign. In the centres, I always favour one bulky centre, one light on his feet, but both physical and able to move the ball nicely. A Nonu/Smith partnership is the model to follow if any but it's just going to be trial and error. Try moving Manu to 12; try JTH there with his partner Lowe which is such a pivotal partnership for Quins; if Manu is playing 13, try someone like 36 at inside centre who can get the ball to him in space just on the outside of the defender; try a bulky 12 + quick 13 combo: 12 Manu/JTH - 13 Lowe/Trinder, etc. The centres may take time to get right but we really need to experiment and get youngsters going. Tinds has to go and Hape was never good enough. Wings, when the time comes, pick 3 in form flyers with different abilities. The 3 I've gone for are proven performers and all have PACE. Ashton really needs to buck his ideas up if he's going to start - he's off form and being a bit of a t0sser to be honest but he has too much class to leave out and probably starts at 14. Monye vs Sharples for the 11 spot but if other players emerge as outstanding performers over the next month then drop one or both in favour of said outstanding performer(s). This is a position well up for grabs. 15 has to be Brown at the moment on form. I don't think he will be starting just because Foden is the incumbent, which is sad because Brown's form is red hot and he can't put a foot wrong currently. Man of the match (deservedly) more times than I can remember this season and has improved exponentially since he was last in an England shirt (which was also in very tough circumstances everyone seems to forget).

There are some notable absentees: Tom Croft for me just isn't performing to the same level that propelled him to the England ranks initially a few years ago but I think dropping him would give him the kick up the rear he needs to get back to the standard we'd all like to see him at. Wilko: I'm really very sorry to say that he's just past his prime and not good enough any more. Would love to see him coaching in some capacity in the future (taking over from Dave Alred perhaps? Maybe England could strike some kind of deal whereby he could coach the kickers during England camps - I read he pretty much played this role for the last few years with the likes of Toby Flood etc). Tinds has to go too. We do have younger, faster, bigger, more skillful youngsters around in his position (unlike Easter's) so it makes no sense not to play them instead. Always felt he was being kept in the side by virtue of the fact he was captain/vice-captain. Cueto: there are just better wingers out there, full stop. Another reliable servant to English rugby but never really felt he was more than just that over the last few seasons - just very reliable. Armitage: Brown is better than him and has been for a long time. I get the point about him being more versatile but Brown is such a quality player that you cannot leave him out in favour of a jack of all trades. Delon's disciplinary record speaks for itself too - not a player I am happy to see wearing the rose at the moment and I hope Lancaster does not compromise what he set out in his news conference about having disciplined, serious, hard-working players in the camp by picking him. Delon, come back when you've grown up.

So anyway, that all leaves my starting 22 for the first game looking something like:

1 Corbisiero
2 Hartley
3 Cole
4 Lawes
5 Robson
6 Wood
7 Robshaw (c)
8 Easter

9 Care
10 Flood
11 Sharples
12 Tuilagi/JTH
13 Trinder/Lowe
14 Ashton
15 Brown

16 Gray
17 Marler
18 Attwood
19 Dowson
20 Youngs
21 Farrell
22 Monye/Foden

OK, so that wasn't such a "short explanation"! Sorry for my ramblings!

RugNut

After watching the weekend games I think an engine room of Lawes/Robson would be blown away physically. Robson is great in the lineout but offers very little around the park.

Robson has bulked up a lot and is actually used pretty frequently as a ball carrier by Quins. He may not be the biggest second row but he is one of the most aggressive and determined. It is probably not telling to judge him based on this weekend's game - the Quins pack was very much on the back foot with Kohn and Fairbrother both out. Obviously, though, if the England coaches were to feel they needed more bulk, with Attwood on the bench that's easy enough to sort out during the game. Lawes is a big boy.

RugNut

I think Robson/Lawes are both pretty poor carriers, I just couldn't see that engine room working against the better sides.

If we are to persist with Lawes we need a big lump of a lock to do the dirty work and carrying. Can't see past Deacon or Garvey myself

Squad of 32:

LH Prop

Mullan, Corbisiero. Marler is getting closer. Corbs seems inconsistant week to week, but that's what you get from young players. Wood can't be far away.

Hooker

Gray, Webber, Hartley. There are plenty of talented young Hookers coming though, so this is a position that will only get stronger.

TH Prop

Cole, Stevens. I don't see PDJ has done enough to get back in. I think Wilson is the better player. Stevens isn't convincing, but until some of the young THs come through we don't have many choices. Sinkler at Quins looks to have enormous potential, but is 3 years away.

Lock

Lawes, Robson, Garvey, Parling. Attwood could force his way in if his improved form continues. I'd say Garvey is the best lock in England at present and almost certain to start in the 6 Nations if he maintans form and fitness.

Back Row

Robshaw (c), Wood, Croft, Easter, Fearns, Seymour

Scrum-Half

Care, Youngs, Simpson

Fly-Half

Flood, Burns, Hodgson

Centre

Twelvetrees, Farrell, Tuilagi, Trinder. Lancaster is a Twelvetrees fan, but whether he can be picked without being first choice at his club is difficult to say. If not then Barritt should come in until Billy moves clubs this summer. Too early for JJ.

Wing

Sharples, Ashton, Banahan. Monye has barely played and has certainly done nothing to earn a place straight back. Wade would be a wild-card

Full Back

Foden, Brown

Front row is a work in progress, but otherwise I'd say this is a strong EPS which could form the basis for a 2015 side, and which would lead to a better side than that which went to the WC immediately.

As per the title - which players do you think will feature at some stage during Stuart Lancaster's time with the reigns? It can be who you'd like to see, who you really think should be there, who deserves it etc. I don't think there'll be a massive amount of changes but I do think there will be some new additions. Some players are massively on form, some others have lost it. So there will be some established players who will go missing...

My choices are:

Chris Robshaw
Brad Barritt
Mike Brown
Joe Simpson
Topsy Ojo
George Skivington

I would also like to see both Charlie Sharples and Christian Wade called up but there are only so many wingers a squad can have.

Sorry if I sound like a stuck record, but has Steffon Armitage been forgoten already. I know that he cannot make the EPS whilst playing in France, but this thread has evolved into an EPS for 2015.

Steffon is by far our best 7. Stick him there. Play him there. We need a balanced back row. Do not make the mistake of trying to crowbar all of Robshaw, Croft and Wood in just because they are all good players. They are all sixes. It just means that our coach would have a tough decision to make there. The Irish are in a similar situation with Ferris and O'Brian (admittedly they are better sixes than the ones that I have mentioned for England).

A backrow has to have balance. And Steffon is our best 7. He will be unselectable for the next year and a half, but I bet he is back in Blighty in plenty of time to have a crack at the 2015 EPS.

tooboredtowork wrote:Sorry if I sound like a stuck record, but has Steffon Armitage been forgoten already. I know that he cannot make the EPS whilst playing in France, but this thread has evolved into an EPS for 2015.

Steffon is by far our best 7. Stick him there. Play him there. We need a balanced back row. Do not make the mistake of trying to crowbar all of Robshaw, Croft and Wood in just because they are all good players. They are all sixes. It just means that our coach would have a tough decision to make there. The Irish are in a similar situation with Ferris and O'Brian (admittedly they are better sixes than the ones that I have mentioned for England).

A backrow has to have balance. And Steffon is our best 7. He will be unselectable for the next year and a half, but I bet he is back in Blighty in plenty of time to have a crack at the 2015 EPS.

O'Brien has proved he can play all three backrow positions equally well actually. He is the most versatile backrow Ireland have. Ferris is a 6 however. For Robshaw, I feel he is also a very versatile backrow. Croft and Wood both strike me as 6s.

Steffon Armitage was very poor last year. I hope the move to Toulon works for him, but the little I have seen of him in the Amlin he has looked off the pace.

Armitage is a pretty average OS, he gets blown away physically against better opposition. He's a long way from international class.

I think flanks of Robshaw and Wood have everything

6 Croft
7 Wood
8 Robshaw
Simple really...

Morgan at 8?

flankertye wrote:6 Croft
7 Wood
8 Robshaw
Simple really...

I think that individually they are the three best back row forwards available to us. I really doubt they would make a good combination though.

6) Wood
7) Robshaw
8) Easter, and then Crane to replace him when he returns.

That is your best backrow I believe. Morgan I think will opt for Wales.

Haskell to challenge Wood for 6 also.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:6) Wood
7) Robshaw
8) Easter, and then Crane to replace him when he returns.

That is your best backrow I believe. Morgan I think will opt for Wales.

Agreed.

Armitage was in poor form before he left, and young open sides like Wallace, Mercer and Kvesic will be ahead of him if and when he returns.

Throwing in my obivously biased opinions, i think Ojo has to be serisously considered for atleast a place in the squad. He is a consistent try scorer, and is a very good defender. I'd certainly have him ahead of Banahan, Strettle, Wade and Cueto currently. I could understand Short being included ahead of him however but for me i prefer Ojo.

As back 3 players in the EPS i'd have

Foden, Armitage, Ashton, Sharples and Ojo.

Armitage is still the best utility back option on the bench for England, and to be fair when he's not banned he's a very good player. Keeping him in the squad will also ensure there is less of an over haul at one time.

The rest of my squad would look like this:

Barritt, Tuilagi, Farrell, JJ (Lowe or Trinder if JJ not fully fit by 6 nations)

Flood, Burns

Youngs, Care, Simpson

Easter, Wood, Croft, Robshaw, Gibson

Lawes, Deacon, Garvey, Robson

Corbs, Cole, Stevens, Marler, PDJ/Wilson

Hartley, Webber, Gray.


A few justifications

Gibson has been playing well all season, covers 6,7,8 and looks the real deal. It can easily be argued that it might be better for the lasst BR spot to go to an out and out no 8 but i really can't think of anyone who has played well this season and is suitable (i don't rate Waldrom as international class). However whoever gets the fifth backrow spot is unlikely to see alot of action anyway unless there are injuries.

Farrell could easily be included as a third fly half and another centre could be named.

As an Ireland fan the team i would most fear facing on current form would be

1.Corbs
2.Hartley
3.Cole
4.Deacon
5.Lawes
6.Croft
7.Wood
8.Easter
9.Youngs
10.Flood
11.Sharples
12.Tuilagi
13.Joseph
14.Ashton
15.Foden

Bench would include

Robshaw, Garvey, D.Armitage, Care and Farrell/Burns.

Lack of backup at Hooker, 10 has to be a worry. And lack of experience in the centres as well. As for the new captain? Its a toughy. I
It has to be someone who is guaranteed their place in the team which for me leaves

Hartley, Croft, Flood, Manu and Foden.

Out of them i'd go for Hartley (as much as i don't like him).

Lancaster has some tough decisions to make. I think its easy to call for older players to be discarded but he needs to make sure its done at the right pace. I see Easter and Deacon being key squad members for their experience.