Cardiff moving back to the Arms Park

Cardiff Blues coach Gareth Baber believes the team could move back to the Arms Park from Cardiff City Stadium in a bid to boost crowd numbers.

In 2009 the Blues moved to Cardiff City Football Club's new home as tenants.

But they have struggled to generate an atmosphere and had a crowd of only 6,102 for their 25-8 Heineken Cup win over Edinburgh last weekend.

Baber said: "That [moving back to the Arms Park] is probably in the offing somewhere."

In May 2008 the Blues signed a deal to play all their home games at the stadium for the following 20 years.

In the first two seasons of their existence at Cardiff City Stadium, the Blues crowds averaged 10,000-11,000.

But amid on-going worries over attendances at Wales' rugby regions, Baber believes there is a possibility that they could return to the Arms Park in the shadow of the Millennium Stadium.

Baber said: "People are always looking at ways you can regenerate that sort of energy in a crowd and that enthusiasm.

Gareth Baber is Cardiff Blues joint coach
"For us as a team and a squad we are at the stadium. That's where we are going to be and we are going to crack on with it.

"What probably is affecting crowd numbers is perhaps that we have had a World Cup, people have watched a lot of rugby and we have a downturn in the economy.

"It's tough for people, it's coming up to Christmas. It becomes tough to spend money on tickets as well, and it's [the game] on TV.

"You want a full stadium, everyone baying for blood.

"It would be nice to have that full stadium but at the moment that's outside of my control. We can only control what we do as a group."

Cardiff RFC have continued to play at the city-centre Arms Park in the Welsh Premiership since the Blues moved two miles to the edge-of-town development at Leckwith.

Cardiff City moved across the road from Ninian Park to the new stadium and have continued to enjoy solid support at their new home.

Elsewhere in Welsh rugby, Swansea City have stronger match-day backing than their Liberty Stadium co-inhabitors the Ospreys.

The Scarlets have also had difficulty filling Parc y Scarlets since moving there from Stradey Park.

Newport Gwent Dragons have remained at their traditional rugby home of Rodney Parade and have begun to redevelop the site.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/16167359.stm


So its clear to see that this move was a complete failure. Cardiff have failed to generate the support the so called "Biggest name in world rugby" said they would get. Do you think they will move next season then as it would be pointless Pieman and Norster parting with yet another 750K. I guess this epitomises the failure of the current "regional" system which lets be honest, after nearly 9 years, is a complete shambles

Lets not turn this into a "The regions have failed" thread. Because they're doing well at youth and junior levels and producing players for Wales.

Hopfully the Blues do move back to the Arms Park, its a real rugger stadium. Its in the heart of Cardiff and is easy for people to get too. One train, or Bus in almost all cases. If they spent half of the money that they spend in 1 year leasing the CCS and used it to instal a few new seats, fix the leak in the roof and dab a lick of paint here and there, then the place would be the best regional stadium in Wales.

You might want to re-read that article

It says that Baber thinks it would be nice and would improve crowds - Baber is the temporary head coach and have NO role in the decision making.

No doubt Peter Thomas will fire him soon after this outburst...

Jamie Roberts has said similar things before, but he has no role on the board either...

We will only move back to the Arms Park when PT leaves.

At the moment, i cant see any way that Thomas will leave. Hes sunk so much money into the region that i think that he'll ride it in the ground until the WRU buy him out to prevent the Blues from going under.

I read that the WRU want to buy the Arms Park, they must be getting signals about its availability from someone so soon it could be too late for them to go back.

I for one will be going a lot more if they do go back. It would be the best decision that Peter Thomas ever made but then again there's not that much competition on that front!

Turkster wrote:I read that the WRU want to buy the Arms Park, they must be getting signals about its availability from someone so soon it could be too late for them to go back.

The Blues don't own the Arms Parks - And Peter Thomas and the WRU have made separate bids on the stadium.

I went to the Blues London Irish game and there was no atmosphere at all. Just my friends and I hanging out talking about how great it would be to go back to the Arms park.
If you compare the CCC to Ravenhill or somewhere similar it's like comparing night and day.

The CCC is a football stadium and the Arms park is a rugby stadium. The Blues need to get back there. If they did I would actually considered getting a season ticket and I'm from Ulster. No lie.

yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

best blues news i have heard in years.

i dont see this as a failure of regional rugby at all. a failed experiment maybe.

i have been to the schitty schtadium a few times. i used to go to almost every home game at the cap.

great news. fantastic.



first best chrimbo prezzie

dogtooth wrote:yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

best blues news i have heard in years.

i dont see this as a failure of regional rugby at all. a failed experiment maybe.

i have been to the schitty schtadium a few times. i used to go to almost every home game at the cap.

great news. fantastic.



first best chrimbo prezzie

ITS NOT HAPPENING

I wont believe it until PT comes out and says it.

wales606 wrote:


ITS NOT HAPPENING

I wont believe it until PT comes out and says it.

it would be great if it did happen. the gate might not get a huge boost immediately but the crowds would look much better, the atmosphere would be more electric and that could lead to more people wanting to go and join in.

I trust the WRU would have it demolished if they bought it in order to expand the MS to its full capacity?

Would be nice to be able to get 80-something thousand in there, which would be the new capacity if one unofficial source I once read is to be trusted. Tbh I have no idea myself. I just thought it looked like they replaced the missing tier with just double the seats on the tier bellow but I'm no expert in these things.

As for Blues, they should reap what they've sown and just start winning more regularly. Winning pulls the crowds.

nice if it did happen but let's not get ahead of ourselves. IMO, it was the right decision to move but done at completely the wrong time. We should have stayed at the Arms Park and built up success, get season tickets up to capacity and have people on waiting lists. Then you make the transition slowly, move the welsh derby matches there to allow bigger crowds as well as HEC quarter finals and such. But that wasn't the case and it's backfired completely.

gcBlues wrote:nice if it did happen but let's not get ahead of ourselves. IMO, it was the right decision to move but done at completely the wrong time. We should have stayed at the Arms Park and built up success, get season tickets up to capacity and have people on waiting lists. Then you make the transition slowly, move the welsh derby matches there to allow bigger crowds as well as HEC quarter finals and such. But that wasn't the case and it's backfired completely.

Sounds like you should of sent someone an email. Hit the nail on the head.

I've heard that the WRU wanted to buy the Arms park to, indeed expand capacity, but also, to meet all the criteria for hosting Champion's League football, in particular the final. Just what I've heard/red. Can't remember the craic with the other party though.

Just a real shame that the Blues didn't use the money they invested into the CCC to redevelop the Arms park. Could of been the envy of Wales that place. Things like new changing rooms and club house on the side closer to the pitch and even rebuilding one or two of the stands.

Just remembered though that the land was once owned by a family that put on the lease that the land must be used as a public sport area and the name Cardiff must be in the name of anyone who plays there, though that one could be the rule of the current owners. So if the WRU do buy the land they'll have to go to court unless they build a new ground over slightly.

gcBlues wrote:nice if it did happen but let's not get ahead of ourselves. IMO, it was the right decision to move but done at completely the wrong time. We should have stayed at the Arms Park and built up success, get season tickets up to capacity and have people on waiting lists. Then you make the transition slowly, move the welsh derby matches there to allow bigger crowds as well as HEC quarter finals and such. But that wasn't the case and it's backfired completely.

I agree, Cardiff Blues should have stayed put until they built on their success (they were starting to do well before the move; EDF winners and that Leicester HEC semi shoot out) and created a demand for season tickets because it would be the obvious thing to do and in the best interests of Cardfiff regional rugby overall, so that being said why do you think Cardiff Blues moved to CCS when they did?

They've signed a deal to play at CCC for 20 years. How much would they need to cough up if they wanted out after a few years?

JayMaster3000 wrote:I went to the Blues London Irish game and there was no atmosphere at all.

I went to the Blues v Edinburgh match on the weekend and it wasn't great. There was an Edinburgh fan in front of us who made more noise than anybody else. (He wasn't a Wayne Barnes fan, let's put it that way!)

Cardiff Dave wrote:I agree, Cardiff Blues should have stayed put until they built on their success (they were starting to do well before the move; EDF winners and that Leicester HEC semi shoot out) and created a demand for season tickets because it would be the obvious thing to do and in the best interests of Cardfiff regional rugby overall, so that being said why do you think Cardiff Blues moved to CCS when they did?

Something to do with PT and CAC falling out wasn't it?

HammerofThunor wrote:They've signed a deal to play at CCC for 20 years. How much would they need to cough up if they wanted out after a few years?

I believe there's an opt out clause, should we want to leave

the schitty schtadium. i tried to accept the move once it had been made. i went to the first game. ive taken my lads and been with friends but it always leaves me cold.

these days i go and watch my local town club more than i go to the blues, its much more fun even though we get badly tonked week in week out.

Surprise, surprise - the boss has spoken

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/rugbynation/cardiff-blues/2011/12/14/cardiff-blues-chairman-peter-thomas-rules-out-return-to-arms-park-91466-29951822/

gcBlues wrote:

I believe there's an opt out clause, should we want to leave

Not sure "we" want to leave gcBlues, although Pete hasn't ruled out the possibility with his latest typically unchallenged one liner;

Asked if a return to the Arms Park was a possibility, Mr Thomas said: “We have a long-term lease at Cardiff City and we are very happy there.”

Wonder who Pete is referring to?
Can't be the players or the coaching staff or the vast majority of supporters I guess. Nor some on the board of directors as I understand they aren't happy being at CCS or were they the 2 that left in recent months?

Would love to see Paxman interview Peter Thomas.
Coming up to Xmas or not, I'd pay top dollar to watch that.

Reports were that the WRU wanted to buy the land so they could then make the MS three tier all the way around and use any spare land for hopsitiality etc.

I am still surorised by how many 'so called' Blues fans won't or don't go to wact them at the CCS becuase its a bit out of town or that atmosphere is not.

Are these the same fans that told Ebbw and Ponty fans etc to get behind their Region when that meant travelling to another town not just 15-20 walk within the SAME Town/City.

It would be interesting to see how much more money the CCS generates in hospitality and executive seats and such stuff in comparison to the Arms Park, and also if they have the space to properly develop one of the stands in the AP to put in really nice boxes?

I heard, but please correct me if I'm wrong, that Cardiff Athletics Club owned the Arms Park and that they were also major shareholders in both the Blues and Cardiff RFC.

For anyone whose interested, this is off the Blues forum

"OK just to put you all out of your misery on this issue

Peter Thomas has no desire to return to CAP, he and CAC just do not get on

PT would stand aside should someone (or two?) else come on board and repay his loans

The previous candidates for this are no longer interested 9cheers CAC MC)

There was always a chance to move back to CAP WITHOUT any major penalty. Risdale and the new owners have always regarded the situation as fluid

IF the board of CRFC Ltd are to be believed and CAC were disbanded, (after all the rugby section is and always has been the overwhelming section and income provider, and the other (tennis, hockey, bowls & cricket sections paid off) ) and CAP was used as a development site to ensure a high annual income (ala Exeter, Northampton, Leicester, Arsenal...) And the land between Lawrenny Avenue and the new Athletic stadium were used to build a new ground of some 10/12k capacity. Then Cardiff rugby might have a future. (Also note that PT was apparently persuaded to take only a portion (50 %???) of his loans and one of the grand stands named after him he would stand aside)

If CAC, the supporters, the board members had talked openly and without prejudice then we may never have got into this awful mess in the first place!

A return to CAP would involve CFC Ltd finally paying full attention to the terms of the lease and it may then be properly improved. And the money saved in the rental deal would help in this

Just because the coaching staff, the playing staff, quite a few members of the board are convinced that the move has not been a success does not mean it will easily be undone…..

You all had the chance at the beginning to push this issue but, sadly many just let it happen. This dumb ‘let’s see how it goes’ brigade won the day.
Good on them, hope they’re happy with the results

Scrapping the history of a great club, allowing TV money and bowing to WRU pressure over player release has weakened the ability of the teams to fight their corners properly
Participation agreements…. pah, I’ve @#$%& better ideas after a night on Brains Dark!!! "

bedfordwelsh wrote:Reports were that the WRU wanted to buy the land so they could then make the MS three tier all the way around and use any spare land for hopsitiality etc.

I am still surorised by how many 'so called' Blues fans won't or don't go to wact them at the CCS becuase its a bit out of town or that atmosphere is not.

Are these the same fans that told Ebbw and Ponty fans etc to get behind their Region when that meant travelling to another town not just 15-20 walk within the SAME Town/City.

Plans to develop the Arms Park existed many years before Cardiff Blues moved to Leckwith and completing the MS was only a part of those plans.

It's not just the out of town bit or the rubbish atmosphere that 'so called' supporters do not attend CCS. There are other reasons why some have chosen not to bother going to games anymore.

Never heard of Cardiff Blues fans telling Ponty fans who they should support unless it was in jest.

Dave,

When the Regions were formed there were loads on baords such as this telling fans from Gwent and Ponty etc that like it or lump and to get behind your Region.

wales606 wrote:

PT would stand aside should someone (or two?) else come on board and repay his loans

The previous candidates for this are no longer interested 9cheers CAC MC)

John Smart was one previous candidate I believe;

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/2371176/Thomas-faced-by-revolt-over-Cardiff-merger.html

I remember that as well Bedford - and it's funny that so many Blues fans on these boards use the excuse that the stadium has moved to justify not going - or that moving stadiums has somehow destroyed the reputation of a great club. The some of theother regions have had far greater changes but people are still going to the games - and Scarlets and Ospreys fans travel from much further afield with much worse public transport (and road) links to do it on.

I've not looked into this - but I'd be suprised to see more than a dozen potential investors based in South East Wales with the capital of Peter Thomas and the great interest in rugby to want to sink millions of pounds in to the club, especially when it has such problems with attendance and supporter discontent. Especially as they'd have to pay Peter Thomas for his loans before investing in the club.

Smirnoffpriest wrote:I remember that as well Bedford - and it's funny that so many Blues fans on these boards use the excuse that the stadium has moved to justify not going - or that moving stadiums has somehow destroyed the reputation of a great club. The some of theother regions have had far greater changes but people are still going to the games - and Scarlets and Ospreys fans travel from much further afield with much worse public transport (and road) links to do it on.

The devil is in the detail Smirnhoff.

So there are a few Cardiff Blues supporters who have chosen not attend games anymore, but where are the new supporters? If CCS is such a great attraction where are these people?
The O's attendances are worse than Cardiff Blues by the way and how do you know their fans travel from further afield?;

https://www.606v2.com/t19169-regional-attendances-so-far-this-season

Smirnoffpriest wrote:I've not looked into this - but I'd be suprised to see more than a dozen potential investors based in South East Wales with the capital of Peter Thomas and the great interest in rugby to want to sink millions of pounds in to the club, especially when it has such problems with attendance and supporter discontent. Especially as they'd have to pay Peter Thomas for his loans before investing in the club.

Plus £500,000 pa for CCS and now you mention it i'm not sure what there is to invest in at Cardiff Blues.

I'm not sure there are a massive number of supporters who refuse to go to the stadium, I bet there are a lot like myself who do not go as often as they used to in CAP. There are a number of reasons, cost being one of them. I always prefer to stand watching rugby and in CAP I paid £12 to stand on the terrace. Now I have no option but to pay £20+ to sit down. Nobody can deny the atmosphere is nowhere near as good in CCS unless the ground is near capacity which very rarely happens. There is also the issue of people like myself and my mates who like to make a night of it after the game. That was a much better proposition when we were at CAP. All of these factors add up and it is now an exception rather than a common occurence for my mates and I to go to a game. We haven't made any conscious decision to go less, it's just the whole package is less appealing. People may criticise us for that but unfortunately that's the position with lots of supporters these days.

bedfordwelsh wrote:Dave,

When the Regions were formed there were loads on baords such as this telling fans from Gwent and Ponty etc that like it or lump and to get behind your Region.

In jest then.
I certainly wouldn't tell a Ponty fan to their face or on a message board that they should support Cardiff. Different clubs mun.

Eclipse wrote:I'm not sure there are a massive number of supporters who refuse to go to the stadium, I bet there are a lot like myself who do not go as often as they used to in CAP. There are a number of reasons, cost being one of them. I always prefer to stand watching rugby and in CAP I paid £12 to stand on the terrace. Now I have no option but to pay £20+ to sit down. Nobody can deny the atmosphere is nowhere near as good in CCS unless the ground is near capacity which very rarely happens. There is also the issue of people like myself and my mates who like to make a night of it after the game. That was a much better proposition when we were at CAP. All of these factors add up and it is now an exception rather than a common occurence for my mates and I to go to a game. We haven't made any conscious decision to go less, it's just the whole package is less appealing. People may criticise us for that but unfortunately that's the position with lots of supporters these days.

Well said and you're most definitely not alone.

Sorry Blues fans but personally Im disgusted by your apathy.

I went to Cardiff City Stadium last weekend. It was against Edinburgh and both teams had 100% win records in the pool. It was a vital match. I was in a group of half a dozen people - we were all neutrals. I also know of a group of 30 Munster pals who went to it before the Scarlets match the next day.

I paid £10 for a seat in the stadium easily the best value I've encountered for a HEC match. And despite all of that the official attendance was only a few thousand I think 6000 people.

Thats apalling. If you dont want to follow your team disband and let someone else have a go.

Well said Red_Stag - plus the fans moaning about there being no pubs around the stadium - which is very true. There's a regular Blues shuttle bus that will take you to the a minutes walk from O'Neills and Weatherspoons as well as all the other pubs in the City Centre.

Cardiff_Dave - I didn't see your post earlier. I've seen a fair proportion of the Blues fans on here (I'd guess 20% which is a significant amount) say they don't go to games as often as they would, or never go since the move to CCS.
My earlier points (in this and other threads) were that the Blues have done little to encourage fans from other areas - and seem to have lost some old Cardiff RFC fans because their annoyed at any change from the old Blue and Blacks - changing the kit, the stadium and not even wanting to drop the name Cardiff from the name - even though they are a region and not Cardiff RFC. That could be a reason why they aren't encouraging new fans - as could the fact that they are struggling to keep their existing fans coming back.

The attendance rate has dropped since the move to the CCS. Blaming Blues fans I feel is a little short sighted.

I went to the Blues London Irish it was awful, but living here in Wales I know a lot of Blues fans who refer to the Arms Park as the good old days.

I think it comes down to a combination of different factors. The forming of the regions, naming of the regions, moving stadiums, the Premiership being thrown in the dust bin and so on.

The regions and WRU need to step up address these issues and the fans will come back.

red_stag wrote:Sorry Blues fans but personally Im disgusted by your apathy.

I went to Cardiff City Stadium last weekend. It was against Edinburgh and both teams had 100% win records in the pool. It was a vital match. I was in a group of half a dozen people - we were all neutrals. I also know of a group of 30 Munster pals who went to it before the Scarlets match the next day.

I paid £10 for a seat in the stadium easily the best value I've encountered for a HEC match. And despite all of that the official attendance was only a few thousand I think 6000 people.

Thats apalling. If you dont want to follow your team disband and let someone else have a go.

Shocking isn't it and how could the team disband and let someone else have a go?

Smirnoffpriest wrote:Well said Red_Stag - plus the fans moaning about there being no pubs around the stadium - which is very true. There's a regular Blues shuttle bus that will take you to the a minutes walk from O'Neills and Weatherspoons as well as all the other pubs in the City Centre.

Cardiff_Dave - I didn't see your post earlier. I've seen a fair proportion of the Blues fans on here (I'd guess 20% which is a significant amount) say they don't go to games as often as they would, or never go since the move to CCS.
My earlier points (in this and other threads) were that the Blues have done little to encourage fans from other areas - and seem to have lost some old Cardiff RFC fans because their annoyed at any change from the old Blue and Blacks - changing the kit, the stadium and not even wanting to drop the name Cardiff from the name - even though they are a region and not Cardiff RFC. That could be a reason why they aren't encouraging new fans - as could the fact that they are struggling to keep their existing fans coming back.

Yawnsville, Arizona.

Smirnoffpriest wrote:I've not looked into this -

Maybe you should look into things a bit more before you start slating Cardiff/Blues supporters.

So you use a quote of mine stating that I haven't researched how many viable investors would be willing to put money into the Blues, and you use it to say that I haven't looked in to the Blues attendance figures - or that I can't have an opinion on the current problems at the Blues.

I don't think I am slating Blues fans - at least not the ones who turn up at the stadium, I'm just giving my opinion. You could post a reply saying what points you disagree with. But one of the points was merely a response to you saying that ther are few Blues fans you've seen who have stated they won't go to the stadium. I just pointed out that I've seen a number on here

Smirnoffpriest wrote:So you use a quote of mine stating that I haven't researched how many viable investors would be willing to put money into the Blues, and you use it to say that I haven't looked in to the Blues attendance figures - or that I can't have an opinion on the current problems at the Blues.

I don't think I am slating Blues fans - at least not the ones who turn up at the stadium, I'm just giving my opinion. You could post a reply saying what points you disagree with. But one of the points was merely a response to you saying that ther are few Blues fans you've seen who have stated they won't go to the stadium. I just pointed out that I've seen a number on here

Sorry Smirnhoff. Meant redstag not you.
Off course you can have an opinion, but you seem to know little about Cardiff. I wouldn't expect you to know a lot about the club actually and the problems run deeper than where CCS is located or its rubbish atmosphere.
You say Cardiff Blues don't do enough to attract support, so do you have any suggestions as to what else they can do? You mention the blue and blacks, Cardiff RFC, not dropping the name Cardiff, etc but they are Cardiff RFC not a region. Always have been and Ponty fans never bought into this regional thing.

Thats the big problem Cardiff Blues are a region not a club whether they like it or not - and the only way to attract new fans from the wider region is to start realising it - instead any little change from how the Cardiff RFC was set up is seen as sacrilige by the old Cardiff fans.

I'm not talking so much about the Ponty fans as I've lived and worked there and now how much resentment to WRU, regionalism and the Blues there is up there, but the wider valleys, the Vale, they may be able to encourage some people from the LLantrisant, Maesteg and Bridgend areas. But how would you feel if someone came up to you (even with a great offer such as a BOGOF or free coach) and said fair enough your team if kuput just come and support Newport RFC instead (or any other town), which is basically what Cardiff are doing.

I've listed some of the things they could try on another thread, and I know (your responses have mentioned some) that the Blues have tried a lot - but it always seems to me that they're just saying "come and support Cardiff" - instead of "this is your region we want and need you to come and shape it the way you want and help us build and develop it together"

Smirnoffpriest wrote:Thats the big problem Cardiff Blues are a region not a club whether they like it or not - and the only way to attract new fans from the wider region is to start realising it - instead any little change from how the Cardiff RFC was set up is seen as sacrilige by the old Cardiff fans.

I'm not talking so much about the Ponty fans as I've lived and worked there and now how much resentment to WRU, regionalism and the Blues there is up there, but the wider valleys, the Vale, they may be able to encourage some people from the LLantrisant, Maesteg and Bridgend areas. But how would you feel if someone came up to you (even with a great offer such as a BOGOF or free coach) and said fair enough your team if kuput just come and support Newport RFC instead (or any other town), which is basically what Cardiff are doing.

I've listed some of the things they could try on another thread, and I know (your responses have mentioned some) that the Blues have tried a lot - but it always seems to me that they're just saying "come and support Cardiff" - instead of "this is your region we want and need you to come and shape it the way you want and help us build and develop it together"

OK, for the sake of argument lets call Cardiff Blues a "region" (that as it happens is run by a club called Cardiff RFC) whose original designated regional boundary in 2003 was basically .......have a guess? Didn't include Pontypridd that's for sure.
But the imaginary regional lines were redrawn in 2004 when the Celtic Warrior region ceased to be. They were disbanded with the help of 6 figure sums from Llanelli, Neath-Swansea O's, Cardiff and Newport and as I see it, the WRU never wanted the Warriors in the first place. A big con if you ask me.
So with a single stroke of a pen, all of a sudden Ponty found themselves included in the newly drawn Cardiff imaginary region which is where we are today.

Anyway back to the point of attracting support, you say "they may be able to encourage some people from the LLantrisant, Maesteg and Bridgend areas."
The thing is Cardiff Blues are failing to attract support from the huge population of Cardiff and its immediate surroundings and infact they have lost support (any ideas why?), so what makes you think that they'll make significant gains from small towns and villages miles away? Maesteg and Bridgend areas? Are you having a laugh or what and Bridgend is in the O's region isn't it?

You also say "But how would you feel if someone came up to you (even with a great offer such as a BOGOF or free coach) and said fair enough your team if kuput just come and support Newport RFC instead (or any other town), which is basically what Cardiff are doing."

I would say "I'll support who I choose to support and nobody is going to tell me that I should do otherwise, thank you very much so bugger off".
Cardiff Blues are Cardiff RFC like it or not, who try to pretend they are something different and together with what has gone on over many years has caused many supporters, like myself, to walk away. The CCS debacle was the last straw for me.

Well it's that attitude that is making sure that the Cardiff Blues are neither one thing - a true region which needs to build it's own history, rivalries and culture or the other - a club, which (which is now semi-professional) it can't hold on it's old culture, history and rivalries because the game has moved on - and the more Cardiff Blues try and do both it does neither and disaffects more and more fans from both parties (old Cardiff RFC fans who never wanted regionalism and new 'regional' fans - ie people too young to remember the old clubs, students new to the area/country, people from surrounding areas and general rugby fans like me who support another region but live in Cardiff*).

And the reason I mentioned Bridgend was because a few years back the Ospreys had loads of fans down Pembroke way- much more than the Scarlets even though Pembroke was in our region, and seeing as you have to drive past Llanelli to get to Swansea from there - but Cardiff is just as easy to get as Swansea from Bridgend and I imagine a fair few people who live in Bridgend work in Cardiff (I know 8 people who live in Bridgend or that area - 6 of them work in Cardiff) there could well be an opportunity to say - Hey why not try our region out?

* I've been to 3 Blues games this season which is probably more than some Blues fans

Smirnoffpriest wrote:Well it's that attitude that is making sure that the Cardiff Blues are neither one thing - a true region which needs to build it's own history, rivalries and culture or the other - a club, which (which is now semi-professional) it can't hold on it's old culture, history and rivalries because the game has moved on - and the more Cardiff Blues try and do both it does neither and disaffects more and more fans from both parties (old Cardiff RFC fans who never wanted regionalism and new 'regional' fans - ie people too young to remember the old clubs, students new to the area/country, people from surrounding areas and general rugby fans like me who support another region but live in Cardiff*).

And the reason I mentioned Bridgend was because a few years back the Ospreys had loads of fans down Pembroke way- much more than the Scarlets even though Pembroke was in our region, and seeing as you have to drive past Llanelli to get to Swansea from there - but Cardiff is just as easy to get as Swansea from Bridgend and I imagine a fair few people who live in Bridgend work in Cardiff (I know 8 people who live in Bridgend or that area - 6 of them work in Cardiff) there could well be an opportunity to say - Hey why not try our region out?

* I've been to 3 Blues games this season which is probably more than some Blues fans

Did any Welsh club rugby supporter want regionalism back in 2003? Did Llanelli and Cardiff pay to be standalone clubs?
So you believe that ignoring over 100 years of history and tradition is a good thing to do, yeah? Those in charge of Cardiff Blues thought that and look where it has got them.
How come Llanelli (sorry Llanelli Scarlets, I mean Scarlets, although they have been known as the Scarlets for close to 100 years) openly celebrated their 5000th game recently?
So there were O's fans in Pembroke eh. As there are O's fan's and Cardiff fans and Man Utd fans in Merthyr and Aberdare I guess. Just goes to show that regional boundaries mean absolutely nothing when it comes to supporting a sports team.

I didn't say ignoring 100 years history is a good thing - I said creating your own history is what needs to happen, celebrate what the region represents (the capital city of Wales, the hard edged big rugby boys from the industrial centres of Wales, some great internationals - Geth, Warbs, Dr Bob, Halfpenny and the best Welsh region European record so far). Also celebrate all the youth teams and amateur sides in the region - giving free tickets or £5 tickets to the players at these rugby clubs around the region (and yes the valleys) and maybe a +1 could help these people start making a Blues game a regular thing (given time).

You can also then say look at all the great games that have been held in Cardiff over the last 100 years and all the great players associated with it - but at least your developing and individual history at the same time.

I think the Scarlets are a bit strong on the Llanelli RFC history - what with the 3,000 game and Stephens 500th game (or whatever the figure was) but they at least enjoyed support from around the area/region when they was just a club, so there is more acceptance (not saying anything near total acceptance) - where as the Blues have a lot of negative feeling to deal with.

I hope we're not boring everyone else as no-one else seems to want to offer an opinion on the subject...

I'll offer my thoughts-

The whole Region Vs Club situation will probably never be sorted out. One step I think the WRU should take is to restore the Premiership to its level of prestige before the regions were formed. Like what New Zealand do with the NPC. The biggest prize in domestic rugby.

Smirnoffpriest wrote:I didn't say ignoring 100 years history is a good thing - I said creating your own history is what needs to happen, celebrate what the region represents (the capital city of Wales, the hard edged big rugby boys from the industrial centres of Wales, some great internationals - Geth, Warbs, Dr Bob, Halfpenny and the best Welsh region European record so far). Also celebrate all the youth teams and amateur sides in the region - giving free tickets or £5 tickets to the players at these rugby clubs around the region (and yes the valleys) and maybe a +1 could help these people start making a Blues game a regular thing (given time).

You can also then say look at all the great games that have been held in Cardiff over the last 100 years and all the great players associated with it - but at least your developing and individual history at the same time.

I think the Scarlets are a bit strong on the Llanelli RFC history - what with the 3,000 game and Stephens 500th game (or whatever the figure was) but they at least enjoyed support from around the area/region when they was just a club, so there is more acceptance (not saying anything near total acceptance) - where as the Blues have a lot of negative feeling to deal with.

Ignoring over 100 years of history and tradition is the route those in charge of Cardiff have chosen bit by bit although they made out they would preserve it all, so you must be able to understand why many Cardiff supporters aren't happy about it and i'm not just talking about old timers here. There are supporters in their early 20's and 30's who are equally annoyed about what has happened.

Cardiff has always had support from people living in the Valleys especially from places such as Merthyr and Aberdare and they used to get massive crowds just being Cardiff without the utterly pointless regional tag. As far as i'm concerned, the pretend regionalism adventure has achieved nothing whatsoever. All it has done is annoyed existing support and riled Ponty fans to the hilt. Add to that the very questionable move to CCS which has proved to be, as was predicted, a total failure then we have what we have; a shambles.

Llanelli RFC were always known as the Scarlets and like Cardiff have always been well supported by people from miles around.
"Scarlets" is chanted at Scarlets games and Llanelli RFC Welsh premiership games and both teams' home venue is PYS and before that it was Stradey.
They are Llanelli RFC in other words.

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