Froch vs Ward LIVE

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Christ, they've got Khan on the panel.

I'm hoping Barry Mac sparks him.

Thoughts guys? Rooting for Froch big time, head so wants to have a bet on Ward by UD but can't bring myself to do it.

C'mon Carl!

p.s. lets hope they move Froch's missus away from a microphone this time round

The Galveston Giant wrote:

azania wrote:

The Galveston Giant wrote:

azania wrote:You disagree that Hoppo cant counterpunch whilst going forward? OK, that's why I said perhaps.

No that's why i disagree Joe never fought anyone as good as Ward, i thought the Hopkins win was.

Ah. I reckon Ward is a better boxer than Hoppo. He has a better skillset and can be equally dirty.

I was suprised with how tough he was in there, so was Froch.

What surprised me was that he was bullying Froch and pushing him backwards. Didn't think he was that strong. Good luck to the lad. Hope he develops a personality next.

azania wrote:

The Galveston Giant wrote:

azania wrote:

The Galveston Giant wrote:

azania wrote:You disagree that Hoppo cant counterpunch whilst going forward? OK, that's why I said perhaps.

No that's why i disagree Joe never fought anyone as good as Ward, i thought the Hopkins win was.

Ah. I reckon Ward is a better boxer than Hoppo. He has a better skillset and can be equally dirty.

I was suprised with how tough he was in there, so was Froch.

What surprised me was that he was bullying Froch and pushing him backwards. Didn't think he was that strong. Good luck to the lad. Hope he develops a personality next.

Yeah his countering was clever to and constantly had Froch off balance.

I wasnt surprised at all that Froch got bullied up front. He has never liked to fight up close like that and isnt that good at it. Ward showed consistently through the Super 6 he was very adept at fighting up close.

I would have been very surprised if Froch could have matched him there as I think Ward had a cler advantage there.

manos de piedra wrote:I wasnt surprised at all that Froch got bullied up front. He has never liked to fight up close like that and isnt that good at it. Ward showed consistently through the Super 6 he was very adept at fighting up close.

I would have been very surprised if Froch could have matched him there as I think Ward had a cler advantage there.

Not so much that. I thought Froch would be the physically stronger fighter and could use that physicality. It so happened that Ward was equally to Froch or perhaps the stronger of the 2.

I was suprised to see Froch being pushed back, i wasn't expecting it.

Manos, check pm please

Im surprised people thought Froch was much stronger going in. Ward has been the fighter that has usd his physicallity alot more over the course of the Super 6. Hes bullied almost every fighter he faced. Froch needed to keep Ward at a distance to have a chance of winning I think. Ward is just too good, too fast and too adaptable for Froch though.

manos de piedra wrote:Im surprised people thought Froch was much stronger going in. Ward has been the fighter that has usd his physicallity alot more over the course of the Super 6. Hes bullied almost every fighter he faced. Froch needed to keep Ward at a distance to have a chance of winning I think. Ward is just too good, too fast and too adaptable for Froch though.

Evidently very true.

I watched the fight and this is what I think. Ward won this fight but lets be honest Froch was not at his best. I would like to see a rematch in the UK in a few months people are saying Ward is great but he should prove it by going over to Britain and fighting a rematch with Froch there a true champ is willing ot travel and fight in his opponents back yard Ward has not done this yet.

Can Froch win a rematch? I think he can. He was not at his best last night. Wards tactics surprised him I do not think Froch expected Ward to be as strong. The ref was poor I think he should have warned Ward about fighting up close but Ward definately had the advantage there. In a rematch Froch will learn from this and not try and bully Ward which was his biggest mistake imo. He needs to use his jab more and put his shots togther better. Ward has not been tested outside America so this will be an advantage to Froch if the fight is in Britain. I think it would be a good fight and tbh who else should Ward fight that is better than Froch? He already destroyed Kessler and Bute is not in his or Frochs class so a rematch in Britain would make sense.

Great post waingro.


I think any future final should be a three fight series, one home one away, then toss up, with the loser having the option to pull out at any time

All i'll say is this, Andre Ward is no Bernard Hopkins, not even close to the level that BHOP was fighting at near his best nor is he as good as a 43 year old version of the great man, too much is being made of Ward so far, he needs to go on and prove he's that good.

Froch doesn't deserve a rematch at all, simple as that. I can see Ward's career is, in the minds of some, going to go the 'can't win' route. Comprehensively outclasses his biggest rival at 168 lb and all of a sudden the division (which has been buzzing since 2008) is weak, he's boring so his wins don't count for as much, he should have fought Froch in Britain, etc etc. It's a shame.

Not sure what it takes to please some. Ward boxed excellently last night. He nulified Froch's strengths and showed a few of his own which we didn't know he had beforehand.

Sorry Chris who has said the division is weak?

Making things up there I think

88Chris05 wrote:Froch doesn't deserve a rematch at all, simple as that. I can see Ward's career is, in the minds of some, going to go the 'can't win' route. Comprehensively outclasses his biggest rival at 168 lb and all of a sudden the division (which has been buzzing since 2008) is weak, he's boring so his wins don't count for as much, he should have fought Froch in Britain, etc etc. It's a shame.

Not sure what it takes to please some. Ward boxed excellently last night. He nulified Froch's strengths and showed a few of his own which we didn't know he had beforehand.

I agree 100%. I have found the lack of credit given to Ward throughout the entire Super Six to be very disappointing. I think in the wake of this win and wining the tournament (unbeaten no less) will see him gain more credit overall but there will still be that minority who will flat out refuse to acknoweldge him for whatever reason.

I think hes an amazing talent. Has acheived far more than Calzaghe or Hopkins had at the respective stages of their careers so I would not bet against him surpassing either. Hes dispatched his rivals in the division decisively but with some all you get is the negative spin on it when the positives overwhelmingly outweigh them.

Think it's when he starts being compared to someone like Hopkins that people need to gain some perspective.

Herman Jaggery wrote:Sorry Chris who has said the division is weak?

Making things up there I think

Can't remember exactly who has said what, but some have banged the old 'Ward hasn't beaten anyone' drum in the past. Doubtless, a certain few will reel it out again when they point blank refuse to acknowledge that he's clearly a top six / seven pound for pound man now.

The irony is, people who have been (rightly) praising Froch for his achievements in the last three years somehow want to give Ward as little recognition as possible after beating him, in much the same way that the same people who picked Haye to beat Wladimir then went on to say how unimpressive Wladimir was in winning.

Don't usually voice my frustrations like this as you will all know I hope, but sometimes it does seem like there's no pleasing some people.

I agree Chris thought Ward fought an absolute masterclass last night and deserves a lot of respect and praise for it. After that performance I don't care what Froch turns up he isn't ever beating Ward. No need for a rematch as the fight couldn't have been much more one sided to me.

Why shouldnt he be compared to Hopkins? As far as I can see nobody has claimed he has acheived more than Hopkins to date, but its more a case of that he has the potential and talent to. Hes already made a great start and deserves every credit in my view.

His career thus far while very impressive has to be taken in context, it is to my mind no better than say Hattons before he faced Mayweather, the manner of victory was more simple but boxing is at the end of the day a results business.

Kessler, Froch and Abraham is a good set of wins but based on that and from what i've seen of him, comparisons to Hopkins are very premature, he has an awful lot to do before he can even think about getting near his level.

In fairness though, Ghosty, I remember a thread a while back in which people were speculating on how high Froch would be in the all-time British stakes if he won the tournament. And ninety-nine percent of the boxing forum users would be blatantly telling lies if they said they haven't commented on whether or not he'd have outdone Calzaghe had that been the case.

I don't remember anyone being so disgruntled about that at the time. Why should it offend some people so much now that certain posters are drawing a similar comparison between Ward and Hopkins?

I think those comparisons to Hopkins are fully entitled. I have the Sam feeling about Ward. He looks nigh on unbeatable at the minute. In fact I can't wait to see someone land flush on him. I mean that in the nicest way of course

Chris there's a massive difference between Calzaghe and Hopkins which is the problem, one is a bonafide great while the other is a borderline great. Many of us said that Froch needed Ward, Kessler, Bute and a title at super middleweight to upsurp Calzaghe, Ward needs far far more than that to come close to Hopkins level.

I dont agree. I think people are entitled to specualte on whether he could have beaten Hopkins or has the potential to surpass him based on what he has done so far.

We arent talking about an upcoming prospect here. We are talking about a gold medalist amateur who is now the unbeaten winner of the Super 6 and who is an established top 6 pound for pound fighter now.

It will only be fair to make a full comparison at the end of their respective careers, but as things are at moment then theres alot to suggest Ward has the potential to be a great like Hopkins.

The fight went pretty much how I expected it to go. I thought Froch would have made it a bit more difficult but Ward just proved to be too good.

I honestly don't know how anyone thought Froch would win this fight. Ward had just looked so much more impressive throughout the tournament and in their only common opponent (Mikkel Kessler), we saw two completley contrasting results.

As for a rematch? What would be the point? I like Froch but unless he has the ability to morph into a totally different boxer than he's just gonna get beaten in exactly the same manner.

I think Ward is currently a Top 5 P4P and has the potential to reach the very top. Very versitile and strong operator who will be very hard to beat.

J.Benson II wrote:The fight went pretty much how I expected it to go. I thought Froch would have made it a bit more difficult but Ward just proved to be too good.

I honestly don't know how anyone thought Froch would win this fight. Ward had just looked so much more impressive throughout the tournament and in their only common opponent (Mikkel Kessler), we saw two completley contrasting results.

As for a rematch? What would be the point? I like Froch but unless he has the ability to morph into a totally different boxer than he's just gonna get beaten in exactly the same manner.

I think Ward is currently a Top 5 P4P and has the potential to reach the very top. Very versitile and strong operator who will be very hard to beat.

I would second that. I expected Froch to be more competitive in the middle rounds though when he actually did his best stuff in the last couple of rounds really when it was far too late.

Ward really won me over last night. I was always a fan - but I was conscious that a lot of his wins required a degree of context. For instance - Kessler was a good win - but he busted the trochlea in Kessler's eye through the user of his head - and I felt that this at least merited a points deduction - but nothing came of it. Abraham had already been badly exposed - by Dirrell amongst others. So for Ward heading into this fight - it was clear he was incredibly talented - but how good was he?

In some respects - this is the same position that Roy Jones found himself in in the run up to the Toney fight. Merchant described the fight as proving whether Jones was "for real" or "a fraud". Jones blitzed Toney through superior speed and that fight, more than any other, built the foundations of his legend.

Last night could well have been the same for Ward.

There are no excuses. We can't complain about the referee - in fact, I thought Smoger did an excellent job. The fighters were allowed to get on with their job of fighting without irritating interference. Ward bullied Froch on the inside and controlled the ring on the outside. Ward landed some beautiful shots and forced Froch to respect his power. It was a masterful performance from such a green fighter.

The only downside I can put on it is that he's 28. He's probably only got 5 more years of pro boxing - or about 10 tough fights left in him.

The super 6 has been good for boxing overall - but its sad that the superstar whom the tourney has spawned might not be with us for too much longer

At this stage of their respective careers, Ward has achieved more than Hopkins and Calzaghe. Never have been a fan of Hopkins and never will be, but this version of Ward would beat any version of Hopkins whenever his supposed peak was. Ward is too varied. Great defensively, attacking, countering and movement. Plus he has speed. The only problem is his lack of serious punch power.

A total masterclass performance from him against Ward. The only other problem is how people will start rubbishing Froch by saying he was average at best. The SMW was supposedly a strong division and now because of Ward, people will start claiming its weak. Cant please all the people all of the time or some people at all.

azania wrote:Ward is too varied. Great defensively, attacking, countering and movement. Plus he has speed. The only problem is his lack of serious punch power.

All aboard the hype train...

You've gone too far, for a change, az. Hopkins is also great defensively - and in his prime, whenever that was - he can do enough to deserve not to be written off. Lest we forget - in his MW days, Hopkins was a guy who would come on late and stop opponents down the stretch - so we shouldn't look past his abilities by any means.

That's not to say that Ward isn't a great great talent - but there's various scenarios he hasn't yet been in and so we have no idea how he will handle.

Seems odd that you don't think Ward's got much left in the tank, Ox. He keeps himself in fine condition, doesn't take much punishment and 28 isn't very old. Froch has done the best work of his career now he's in his thirties, I think Ward's going to be around for a good few years yet.

John Bloody Wayne wrote:Seems odd that you don't think Ward's got much left in the tank, Ox. He keeps himself in fine condition, doesn't take much punishment and 28 isn't very old. Froch has done the best work of his career now he's in his thirties, I think Ward's going to be around for a good few years yet.

Not much in the tank isn't quite what I mean.

Let me rephrase and make myself clear.

Sugar Ray Leonard was Olympic Gold Medallist by 21, Welterweight champion of the world by 23 and had the brawl in Montreal and the Hearns fight before his 26th birthday.

Andre Ward is 28 and has a resume so far of Froch, Kessler, Abraham, Miranda. Most boxers start to tail off around the age of 33. So how many fights does he have left in him?

He has the talent to become one of the transcendent boxers. Sure - he's not got the punch to become a Tyson/Pacquiao/SRL figure or the chat of an Ali/FMJ but he has a fantastic skillset - and is quite a complete fighter for someone only 27 fights into their career. But at 28 - can he go on to dominate the weight classes for long enough to capture the imagination? Most fighters tend to slip and slide around the age of 33 - it was 33 when Ali first showed his signs of decline, Pacquiao's just turned 33 and he's looked slower and slower in his last 3 fights. So that gives Ward 5 years - and who is out there for him to beat?

At supermiddle - there's Bute - that fight is a must. After Bute there's the Dirrell brothers. At LHW there's an ageing Hoppo - who has promised never to fight Ward. There's Dawson and there's Pascal (maybe). At MW there's Martinez who says he can't function at 168.

So it all doesn't leave Ward that much in the future - and has thus invited my question - can he be around long enough to build enough landmark fights? Can he help the sport's popularity?

Perhaps I'm asking too much of the man. Its enough for me that I've a new fighter to follow now the heroes of my student career - Manny, FMJ, the K-bros - are all on the cusp of retirement.

oxring wrote:

azania wrote:Ward is too varied. Great defensively, attacking, countering and movement. Plus he has speed. The only problem is his lack of serious punch power.

All aboard the hype train...

You've gone too far, for a change, az. Hopkins is also great defensively - and in his prime, whenever that was - he can do enough to deserve not to be written off. Lest we forget - in his MW days, Hopkins was a guy who would come on late and stop opponents down the stretch - so we shouldn't look past his abilities by any means.

That's not to say that Ward isn't a great great talent - but there's various scenarios he hasn't yet been in and so we have no idea how he will handle.

You know me. I'm not one for hype. I call it as it is. Ward is a serious talent whose only obvious flaw is an apparent lack of power. Hoppo is great and was great in his MW days, but once in a long while we see a talent with supreme skills and Ward is that person. I believe that he can up his game if a serious challenger arrives on the scene. The only person I'd pick to beat him at SMW in the division's history would be RJJ obviously. I believe on talent alone and who he has fought, he is that good.