Where do Bath go from here ?

First topic message reminder :

Leaving aside that Bath played against a pseudo Test side last night, full of current first pick international players, what lessons are to be learned?

Donald does not look fit and off the pace and his slow ball contributed to our demise and we missed Hipkiss at 13 for defence as Banahan got bamboozled by the dummy runners and obstructions that pass for attacking plays these days and simply couldnt cope with it.
The front row went well but away from home in the HC will rarely get rewarded, the locks kept going to the end which was encouraging and generally did their job well. Hopefully young Mercer will have learned a few lessons particularly as the ref allowed a free for all at the breakdown, which Jennings took full advantage of, in the absence of Moody who would not have allowed some of the play, off the feet, that went on. Louw had a good game but Taylor was quiet and well past his best in my view.

Claassens has been subdued for some time in the league and it was noticeable the pace picked up when Cook came on and with Heathcote and Williams (ages 20, 19 and 21 respectively) these players have to to be the future, if we can hang on to them, as too many Academy players in recent times have been pilfered by other sides.

It was a lot to ask of Barkley in crowded traffic in his third game back in 8 months to make a difference but is starting to look like he's obtaining some form.

The back three simply did not get much quality ball, although Abendanon did try some mazy running but the Leinster cover defence was too organised and generally with men to spare. The Vesty yellow card was simply a guess by the ref judging by the number of players flying off their feet at that ruck, which, as the away team is generally how it goes percentage wise. Leinster were very professional in taking full advantage.

As an aside, I thought it was interesting that when at Bath, the crowd vociferously pointed out to the ref, the numerous forward passes committed by Leinster and they looked a bit spooked by it and their back play was stilted because of it and butchered try scoring opportunities but at the Aviva the blatent try scoring passes were allowed and again Leinster were professional in their execution.

We should expose more Academy players to the two remaining HC games and rest senior players for the rest of the league campaign, which is unbelievably tight this season and put this years HC campaign to bed and the younger players should reflect on the lessons learned and we need Moody, Fearns and Skirving to to regain fitness, pronto as without competitive backrows, the game is lost before you start.

I don't think Hawkins will come back - I would be more interested in another ex academy player in Brooker who plays half a game at a time at Quins - another player who saw his route blocked and left a few years back.

Bath now have Saints, London Irish & Saracens before the HC final pool games - so it doesn't get any easier and there is no sign of the injured returning anytime soon. Should we be drafting in some temporary players ? Biller has done ok at hooker since he arrived a few weeks back. Another flanker and lock would be useful.

I think you can only bring in players if they are replacing a long term injury? Theres also the issue of the decent ones being under contract!

The fixture list certainly isnt looking kind for the next month or so, mind you if you meekly turn over against Sale at home, you're going to struggle against most teams!

I think you can only bring in players if they are replacing a long term injury? Theres also the issue of the decent ones being under contract!

Think that's a general look at the summer rebuilding plans.

Interesting how the Bath are now getting it from all sides in the media. General consensus appears to be that it was a mistake letting Meehan go as we don't have the grunt for the pragmatic game plan that we appear to be trying. That said, when Fearns gets back and replaces Taylor at 8, I expect us to have a lot more go forward.

Mears and Moody will also help in the ball carrying department which has been sorely missing and Attwood needs to get his edge back as he has been somewhat cowed down in the hope of making the EPS cut to be announced in January.
Hopefully Barkley with some game time with Hipkiss or Williams can start to get some plays going as we have been poor / rusty in that area all season.
Has the Banahan midfield experiment / injury cover been consigned to the 'only in emergencies' scenario ?

Mears has been a big loss I think, none of our replacements come near to his ball carrying.

To add some optimism to this thread, remember that this time last year and the year before Bath were in a similar position and then went on a run of wins, so things can change!

Bathman_in_London wrote:Mears has been a big loss I think, none of our replacements come near to his ball carrying.

To add some optimism to this thread, remember that this time last year and the year before Bath were in a similar position and then went on a run of wins, so things can change!

Yes but at least in previous years we were still playing some rugby, and not bending over at taking it from behind by Sale at home!

Well that was that 16-0 loss at home to Irish and the time when Newcastle got a try bp at the Rec...

But I agree, at least we were trying to play rugby then!

There have been plenty of worse games, a particularly dire game against Leeds from a few years back sticks in my memory.....and we went through a phase of losing loads of games by one or two points.
An unbeaten run til the end of the season would be nice - at least at home, which would give my season ticket some value......

After watching today's performance my answer to the question posed in the title is - I have no idea, sadly nor does Sir Ian McGeechan it seems. In a poor game, Bath were dreadful. The family snorted when at half time the backs/defence coach said he was happy with the effort and commitment. I thought they looked like a team who truly cannot be bothered.

I think Brad Davis, the coach who spoke at half time, is more in jeopardy personally as the backs in particular looked totally rubbish but individually the players aren't.

Geech has pretty much been successful wherever he has gone & you would think with the money available it will only be a matter of time before Bath improve. However right now the main priority is survival!

I think Bath fans will have to be patient and think 4/5 years ahead. If Craig can turn his business into a 900 mill successful concern.. and rugby is big business now... ergo.

I think his priorities are spot-on. In investing in training-facilities, the Academy and Geech to run the show. On these foundations, longer lasting Empires are built.

In the meantime, to kickstart the buzz, ye need 3 or 4 quality buy-ins. English or otherwise. Their remit, as well as pushing Bath up the table, must be to bring on your academy players. Must. Not an easy retirement plan for aging SH players.

It is exactly how Leinster got where we are in 5 years. Academy and facilities up. Mixed with some key stars to bring on and mentor your academy talent. Like Elsom (see O Brien) and Contepomi (see Sexton) and Le Roux (see Healy). All Leinster Way reared. The list goes on. Soon, very soon, we will be able to field a very strong HC team, filled with Irish-only players. We are well ahead of the new IRFU NIQ restrictions.

That has always been my personal rugby dream over the last 20 years. Its coming.

Believe. And support Craig and your side - in his and their efforts. Quick-fixes never work in rugby. See Ospreys. Unless you want to be Saffacens...

Do it the Leinster Way, Craig. With that old Bath sexshy-rugby swagger too. Your fans will grow to love you for it in time.

Gibson,

Agree there.

Did you get your 'sexschy accent' from living in Amsterdam?

Yesh Trev... I am liking Bath ver much. Your schity and your fansh also. Mucsh like Jan, who for sure is my live-in joint-smoking, policeman lover.

Happy Christmas all. Time to go down de Pub and get really lashed.

Believe.

Merry Xmas Gibson - agree Academy players are the way to go, but Bath players will not be groomed and subsequently exposed to international standards as Bath are a club and not a trials side for the international side, which is Leinster and which are owned by the IRFU.

The recent game is a case in point where Leinster had a fully fit squad with established combinations, with the exception of BOD and a bench stacked with Test players - the Bath bench had a samoan prop with seven caps and er... that was it.

The IRFU has stacked the HC in their favour and well done to them.

Craig's contacts within the French clubs is starting to create waves and he is looking to change the status quo on the basis that he needs a different business model before he commits £50M on a new stadium in the centre of Bath.
Watch that space to see how that develops as pretty sure Tigers,Saints & Sarries and all the big french clubs are all looking for a different business model beyond the HC too.

Rec,
With respect, Leinster are European Champions in their own right. We produce the mass of the Irish side because our Academy and selection processes and subsequent investment in them (time & money) is so successful. Also, our marketing section is possibly the best in the NH. We are not an Irish trials side. Bath would be doing well if 2 thirds of your HC 23 was selected for England. Success hurts so bad sometimes.


Another key point is keeping the talent you nurture... Must not rear it for the benetit of others. Thats a must. Must have a set up that ensures the young lads want to stay in and be part of. That takes huge commintment and shekels. And the best they can have around them to take them to the top and mind them when they get there. Ye have already begun that process.

Bath wasn' t built in a day...

I was reading about Criag having strong connections within the French game who have big plans to take on the IRB. He wants to stir it up and have a European Super League methinks. I think that would be bad for the game in the NH. The smaller clubs need us and we need them. As much as I dislike the IRB with their no brain descisions and short-sightedness. Not to mention their elitism nationally (see the RWC). Lets not follow club soccer here.

Merry Christmas.

I agree Gibson - the Leinster model hasn't happened overnight but it is no coincidence that their props, backrow & half backs have taken over from Munster at Test level and that experience is invaluable at the next HC rung down, which Leinster prioritise.
I remember a few years back there was a lot of RFU discussion on the English clubs consolidating players into four regions; north, midlands London & south west which were in existence to ensure the elite players were consistently in the top competition and leave the clubs to contest an expanded league and domestic cup competition but got nowhere because the players were contracted to the clubs.

These top down structures will fade eventually - the nzru is already looking for franchise owners as they can't fund their own devised teams !

LondonTiger wrote:After watching today's performance my answer to the question posed in the title is - I have no idea, sadly nor does Sir Ian McGeechan it seems. In a poor game, Bath were dreadful. The family snorted when at half time the backs/defence coach said he was happy with the effort and commitment. I thought they looked like a team who truly cannot be bothered.

When the backs had no idea what they were doing and the defence had gaping holes in it??? I think Davis must be under some serious pressure for his job at the moment.
1st half performance was the worst I have seen, totally abject, and seemingly not a single player had any idea what they were doing!! Get Dean Ryan in now...his analysis of our kicking and defence was spot on.

Who would want to be Stephen Donald? From Zero-Hero-Zero (mind he does have a RWC winners medal).

He just looks on a completely different wavelength to the rest of the backs - firing out long passes to static players.

Bath's issues in the pack are well known and not helped by injuries. However they seem to be pulling that part around slowly - but need an effective attacking plan.