606 Picks the England Team to Play Scotland in the 6Ns - Outside Half

Apologies for the delay - being on holiday gives me less time for this

Any way, pack seems selected and Ben Youngs is leading the poll for SH by some distance. So on to the No 10 - or betraying my age the Outside Half.

Toby Flood is probably in the driving seat - but is being challenged by old and young alike. I could offer a huge list, but many are not getting enough game time, so the likes of Clegg, Catterick, Ford all need to be playing more regularly. Alex Goode was in the mix but struggled at 10 last year so is back at 15 for Sarries.

As with Haskell, Danny Cipriani is ruled out as the logistics of him playing during the Super Rugby season are difficult - and his form is almost impossible to assess.

It will be Flood, and probably Charlie H. will be the backup in the EPS and on the bench for 6N.
I would like to see Farrell and Burns in the Saxons. Clegg hasnt had enough game time to even see if he is in form or not.

Ok on form...ill go with Charlie Hodgson who can really get a back line going....should have his club mate Barritt outside him, and i would like to see how he goes putting the likes of Tuilagi through gaps and the likes of Ashton running his lines....could be interesting...
It would be his final chance mind...to see if he can finally step up the level.

Paul Gustard also seems to be actually improving Hodgsons defence..(if this is not a big call to get Gustard in the England Coaching team then what is)

I voted for Flood. I think Hodgson should stay with Saracens.

Geordiefalcon very true. Paul Gustard has definitely improved Hodgson's defence. I have been really impressed by this. To fit in at Saracens you must make your tackles.

Hodgson has always been an excellent club player but there are question marks whether he can do it at international level. He is much more effective when someone else is placekicking in my opinion.

I think stick with Flood but have Hodgson in the squad.

Lamb has looked good when I've seen him and Burns is clearly going to feature at some point in the future, but neither have done enough so far in my opinion.

Don't........like..........Flood.
Can't..........vote......for....Flood.

I would rather have Dan Cole at out half than Flood, so I voted for Other. Kind of a protest vote, if you will.

Its just one of those positions where there arent many options.

Burns - probably played the most out of the other young 10's (had some great games too - I've not seen any stinkers from him either).
Clegg - 0 games time this season (dont know if in or out of form).
Owen Farrell - seems to be playing more recently at 13, solid kicker, strikes me as being a bit fiery. I dont think he is ready for the step up yet.
Ford - had some stinkers with Tigers at the start of the season (hasnt had a look in since Flood returned). Needs more time in the prem (not even ready for Saxons yet).

Lamb - was so inconsistent at Glouces, same at LI - In a bit of form for Saints but suspect that might be a bit of a flash in pan situation.
Myler - he is solid, got good hands but is playing 2nd fiddle to Lamb at the moment. But, hes nothing special.

Charlie H. - good attacking 10, shakey defence (although better now with sarries). But, weve seen him really choke in big games - I agree with above post that he is much better when you take the kicking duties away from him.

Who is Catterick?

doctor_grey wrote:Don't........like..........Flood.
Can't..........vote......for....Flood.

I would rather have Dan Cole at out half than Flood, so I voted for Other. Kind of a protest vote, if you will.

You have to pick someone, protest vote or not! I'm not overly keen on the options available but unless we can wipe Nick Evens Kiwi experience from everyone's memory then we are stuck with what we have.

Flood for me with Hodgson as back up. Farrell in the EPS as well as second choice IC behind Barritt and also a third choice 10.Burns and Clegg in the Saxons

B91212 wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:Don't........like..........Flood.
Can't..........vote......for....Flood.

I would rather have Dan Cole at out half than Flood, so I voted for Other. Kind of a protest vote, if you will.

You have to pick someone, protest vote or not! I'm not overly keen on the options available but unless we can wipe Nick Evens Kiwi experience from everyone's memory then we are stuck with what we have.

Flood for me with Hodgson as back up. Farrell in the EPS as well as second choice IC behind Barritt and also a third choice 10.Burns and Clegg in the Saxons

Spot on I like the sound of that.

Ford - had some stinkers with Tigers at the start of the season

To be fair the stinkers were rarely his fault. His quick thinking actually kept Tigers in some games (see Wasps away) and he coped well under what was an awful lot of pressure. I hope we get to see him when Tigers have a proper team out and he can show his skills with some half decent ball. Agree that he isn't ready for the Saxons.

Flood for me with Hodgson as back up. Farrell in the EPS as well as second choice IC behind Barritt and also a third choice 10.Burns and Clegg in the Saxons

I'd agree with that if Farrell wasn't being denied experience because of Hodgson and Barritt at AP level. Their call ups should free him to gain experience at 10/12 (probably 10) which he needs to improve. Maybe some Saxons time when he will actually play rather than just watch his club mates plus Flood run some moves won't help his experience.

Why is it only Saracens players who seem to need more experience whilst other players with a lot less experience are deemed ready for England?

Sam, I think you might be right, better maybe for Farrell to be taking charge of some games at 10 (even if he is a long term 12, it can't hurt to have the reponsibility) rather than training with England and end up not playing for either?

I think I already posted on this, but I'd have Flood with Barritt outside him and Hodgson on the bench to come on when the game is opening up.

beshocked wrote:Why is it only Saracens players who seem to need more experience whilst other players with a lot less experience are deemed ready for England?

You are getting defensive again. The same thing has been said about Burns, Clegg etc. All Sam is pointing out is that Farrell is playing most of the games at 13 so gametime at 10/12 would be preferable to being in a squad but not on the bench. However there is room for him to be in the EPS and then released to Sarries to play.

B91212 wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:Don't........like..........Flood.
Can't..........vote......for....Flood.

I would rather have Dan Cole at out half than Flood, so I voted for Other. Kind of a protest vote, if you will.

You have to pick someone, protest vote or not! I'm not overly keen on the options available but unless we can wipe Nick Evens Kiwi experience from everyone's memory then we are stuck with what we have.

Flood for me with Hodgson as back up. Farrell in the EPS as well as second choice IC behind Barritt and also a third choice 10.Burns and Clegg in the Saxons

OK. OK. I will vote. But you are doing this to ruin my holiday because we all know there is no one else besides Mr. Flood. I don't suppose you will let me vote for Paul Grayson?

Here's my problem with Mr. Wonderful: First, he looks like a reject from a 1980s boy band (Toby and the Floods?). Second, he looks like he should be working on the Island of Sodor (Toby the pretty and confused engine). Third, he runs badly. Fourth, His passes are average. Fifth, he looks like a reject from a 1990s girl band (Toby and the Tob-ettes). Sixth, his defense is poopie.

Only for you mate, I vote for......FFF..... Fl......Floo......Flood.
And to make the shoite more binding, I agree we need to have Hodgson on the bench.
OK, you happy now?

On the other hand, I like the idea of Barritt being seconded by Farrell.

Flood by a fair distance followed by Hodgson and a youngster like Farrell or Burns.

doctor_grey wrote:

B91212 wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:Don't........like..........Flood.
Can't..........vote......for....Flood.

I would rather have Dan Cole at out half than Flood, so I voted for Other. Kind of a protest vote, if you will.

You have to pick someone, protest vote or not! I'm not overly keen on the options available but unless we can wipe Nick Evens Kiwi experience from everyone's memory then we are stuck with what we have.

Flood for me with Hodgson as back up. Farrell in the EPS as well as second choice IC behind Barritt and also a third choice 10.Burns and Clegg in the Saxons

OK. OK. I will vote. But you are doing this to ruin my holiday because we all know there is no one else besides Mr. Flood. I don't suppose you will let me vote for Paul Grayson?

Here's my problem with Mr. Wonderful: First, he looks like a reject from a 1980s boy band (Toby and the Floods?). Second, he looks like he should be working on the Island of Sodor (Toby the pretty and confused engine). Third, he runs badly. Fourth, His passes are average. Fifth, he looks like a reject from a 1990s girl band (Toby and the Tob-ettes). Sixth, his defense is poopie.

Only for you mate, I vote for......FFF..... Fl......Floo......Flood.
And to make the shoite more binding, I agree we need to have Hodgson on the bench.
OK, you happy now?

On the other hand, I like the idea of Barritt being seconded by Farrell.

Yes I'm happy now thanks, for 2 reasons. Number 1 is that I managed to get a vote out of you, which considering your views of the options available is no mean feat, and secondly, in a cruel and evil way I'm kind of glad I'm putting a (very small) damper on your holiday, seeing as I'm currently at work and will be everyday until Friday afternoon. For the record I'm not Flood's greatest fan myself but I do think he is generally acceptable based on last seasons 6N displays. I do agree with your issues with him other than number 6 (especially the boy/girl band issues). I don't think his defense is too bad for a 10.

Flood will be the 10 for England, the qyestion is who will be his back up.
Hodson is the most experience but will he be around for 2015 RWC?

Farrell is also doing well would like to see him get some game time with England, Burns has also been looking good, i think it will be a toss up between Burns and Farrell.

B91212 wrote:Yes I'm happy now thanks, for 2 reasons. Number 1 is that I managed to get a vote out of you, which considering your views of the options available is no mean feat, and secondly, in a cruel and evil way I'm kind of glad I'm putting a (very small) damper on your holiday, seeing as I'm currently at work and will be everyday until Friday afternoon. For the record I'm not Flood's greatest fan myself but I do think he is generally acceptable based on last seasons 6N displays. I do agree with your issues with him other than number 6 (especially the boy/girl band issues). I don't think his defense is too bad for a 10.

Ok mate, you win. But only because it is the holiday season. I am working Thursday, but are on call at the hospital on the 25th and 26th. Last Christmas I worked was boring. No one came in except for a few drunks who needed to sober up and one who fell down and broke a rib. As I was trying to wrap his chest, he promptly threw up on me. "Hey, Doc. Happy f***in Christmas"

This year, if I get called in on Christmas, it better be good. I would hate the idea of a patient coming in with a broken finger and leaving with a broken nose. But only if he looks like Toby Flood.

doctor_grey wrote:Ok mate, you win. But only because it is the holiday season. I am working Thursday, but are on call at the hospital on the 25th and 26th. Last Christmas I worked was boring. No one came in except for a few drunks who needed to sober up and one who fell down and broke a rib. As I was trying to wrap his chest, he promptly threw up on me. "Hey, Doc. Happy f***in Christmas"

This year, if I get called in on Christmas, it better be good. I would hate the idea of a patient coming in with a broken finger and leaving with a broken nose. But only if he looks like Toby Flood.

I hope Flood doesn't have a mare in the 6N otherwise you are going to be giving me some serious sh*t for months

No idea how you tolerate idiots throwing up on you - if it were me I would break their nose. Mrs used to get crap like that working in A&E in Northampton on a Saturday night. Hope you have a quiet one and don't get called in on either Christmas Day or the 26th (we do have Boxing Day here North of the border - unlike those of you in Yankieland).

Funny thying, but I always enjoy Boxing Day. Down here in Yankeeland the 26th means it is time to go back to the stores. Again. Up yonder in the Canadian Steppe you are a bit more civilised.

Getting thrown up on is not the worst thing in the world. But it is easy to know when one becomes too accustomed to it: When after being thrown up on, we sit around and figure out what the dude had to eat.

So you are a Saints fan by marriage or by birth? My neighbor, a Yank, but good Rugby chum none the less, works for Avon and goes to Northampton regularly.

Saints fan by marriage. Although not born there the Mrs lived in Daventry from the age of 2. I'm originally from Nottinghamshire. Even managed to drag the Mrs to her first game of rugby just before we left for Canada, the last game I saw live at the Gardens (2007).

What’s your story? Cobbler by birth or Paul Grayson’s twin brother?

We moved around a lot when I was a kid. Spent a fair amount of time living on a farm in Roade, just across the M1 from Northampton. Actually worked at Northampton General Hospital for a few years before the Army figured out they have better places for a young, obviously expendable surgeon. And so I continued to move around a lot. And learned to keep my head down. A lot of my better Rugby (sic) was payed whilst in Northampton. Love the Gardens will all that goes with it. My missus married into this mess, poor lass.

Sometimes Flood appears not to have a Plan B when it all goes wrong.

For example, in this years 6N's, he had great success early on with the inside ball to Ashton.
Unfortunately, it then seemed that the only way he knew how to attack was an inside ball.
And when it wasn't working, he continued to use the inside ball, just to watch the runner get battered time and again.


Hopefully all that was due to the 'rigidness' of the coaching setup and that we will now see a more free flowing game, because, quite frankly, he's the only starting option.

Hodgson would be good... but I just don't trust him wearing an England shirt.... Would love to be proved wrong though

wasps wrote:Sometimes Flood appears not to have a Plan B when it all goes wrong.

For example, in this years 6N's, he had great success early on with the inside ball to Ashton.
Unfortunately, it then seemed that the only way he knew how to attack was an inside ball.
And when it wasn't working, he continued to use the inside ball, just to watch the runner get battered time and again.


Hopefully all that was due to the 'rigidness' of the coaching setup and that we will now see a more free flowing game, because, quite frankly, he's the only starting option.

Hodgson would be good... but I just don't trust him wearing an England shirt.... Would love to be proved wrong though

At the weekend I thought he was doing the inside pass far too much again - it's lost it's surprise value with him a while ago now.

B91212 wrote:

wasps wrote:Sometimes Flood appears not to have a Plan B when it all goes wrong.

For example, in this years 6N's, he had great success early on with the inside ball to Ashton.
Unfortunately, it then seemed that the only way he knew how to attack was an inside ball.
And when it wasn't working, he continued to use the inside ball, just to watch the runner get battered time and again.


Hopefully all that was due to the 'rigidness' of the coaching setup and that we will now see a more free flowing game, because, quite frankly, he's the only starting option.

Hodgson would be good... but I just don't trust him wearing an England shirt.... Would love to be proved wrong though

At the weekend I thought he was doing the inside pass far too much again - it's lost it's surprise value with him a while ago now.

Just like Scrumhalfs at international level need real pace to keep defences guessing, so 10's need something a little extra to keep the opposition in check.

My main problem with Flood is that on a bad day he can't kick from hand well enough, or switch on the gas quick enough, or turn and step on a coin to foil defenders. I still picked him because on a good day he can create a score from anywhere.

yappysnap wrote:My main problem with Flood is that on a bad day he can't kick from hand well enough, or switch on the gas quick enough, or turn and step on a coin to foil defenders. I still picked him because on a good day he can create a score from anywhere.

Exactly.
And because he can't intimidate opposing teams when he looks like he should be wearing heels and a skirt. Or at least, pants which are a bit to tight and form fitting. Gak. Awful visual. I want my Wilko back, age 23, of course..

doctor_grey wrote:And because he can't intimidate opposing teams when he looks like he should be wearing heels and a skirt. Or at least, pants which are a bit to tight and form fitting.

You need to stay out of the medicine cart at work, it's messing with your mind....

I did something worse. Much worse. Went Christmas shopping with my wife and daughters. Suicide watch for me is on.