606 Picks the England Team to Play Scotland in the 6Ns - No8

Team so far looks like:

Corbs, Hartley, Cole
Attwood, Lawes.


Now to pick the Number 8. (We will do this separately then do both flankers together). As usual if I miss anyone, include them and tick ANO.

Crane, Fearns and Guest are currently injured so out of contention for the first 6Ns. Haskell is excluded as even if he has it written into his Japanese/NZ contracts the logisitics of trying to play are nigh on impossible.

i would like to see robshaw play but not at no. 8, its not his best position he is better on the flank. not convinced dowson is an 8 either, there'll be quite a few new faces in the side due to retirees so i think sticking with easter at the base is the best option.

Guest isn't injured - he's fully fit and just waiting for a chance to play (I bumped into him before the Toulouse game) - but needs a run with Quins before he can be considered for England. One for the summer tour if he can stay fit, though - England need to develop some options at 8 and Guest is one of the best bets.

Assuming a youngish pack, I think Easter should stay in situ for the 6N, but would be happy to see Waldrom or Narraway (if fit) get some game time. Robshaw and Wood are not 8s, and shouldn't be played there.

Easter is the only real option...

Easter - not an ideal choice but virtually only option.

I think England need to play the relatively inexperienced flanker pairing of Wood and Robshaw (7&6 respectively). Easter is the only real short term answer, until these two have a chance to rack up some more caps.

As above

Waldrom. Not ideal, and probably not international class, but better than the others.

Oh God, Easter? Really? I know there's a dearth of available 8s but i'd do just about anything to keep that useless fat fecker out of the team, even pick the even fatter Waldrom.

I voted Robshaw. The telegraph were speculating about him playing there earlier in the week.

Is "The Telegraph speculated it might happen" the best argument you can come up with in favour of him playing at 8?

Hood83 wrote:Oh God, Easter? Really? I know there's a dearth of available 8s but i'd do just about anything to keep that useless fat fecker out of the team, even pick the even fatter Waldrom.

But he's playing well...in a team thats top of the league and just beat Toulouse at their place....

He has experience, whlst not flamboyant...has good hands power and grit. Put him in with Robshaw and Wood...two youngsters with pace and ability and it will work well.

I dont want Waldrom anywhere near the squad let alone the team!

Robshaw at played at 8 in a AP game a few weeks ago, he didn't look out of place at all. We have a number of decent choices on the flanks, so maybe it would make sense to play him there. Guest is equally at home on the blind side as he is at 8.

Only when Easter decides to pack it in though.

Easter at 8, let him play in a functioning team with good management and hopefully he can transfer his very good club form to internationals.

End of the day he's the best 8 we have currently, whether you like him or not that's a fact.

Waldrom has been in excellent form of late and someone has really put a rocket up his backside about his defensive work load. Really played well against Clermont and it was noticeable he was missing last week. In better form than Easter but doesn't have the same leadership abilities and still not the best at the base of the scrum but that's slowly improving.

If England intend to run the ball and use the hands then Waldrom should be selected over Easter but if England are going down the territory and control route then Easter is a better option. Thing is I don't think we have a 10 that can play at international level and offer the required territorial kicking and control to allow England to get away with that as a game plan.

Waldrom is not in better form then Easter, both are in very good form though and either if they bring it to the top table would be beneficial to England.

GeordieFalcon wrote:

Hood83 wrote:Oh God, Easter? Really? I know there's a dearth of available 8s but i'd do just about anything to keep that useless fat fecker out of the team, even pick the even fatter Waldrom.

But he's playing well...in a team thats top of the league and just beat Toulouse at their place....

He has experience, whlst not flamboyant...has good hands power and grit. Put him in with Robshaw and Wood...two youngsters with pace and ability and it will work well.

I dont want Waldrom anywhere near the squad let alone the team!

IMHO - he isn't playing particularly well at all, and he isn't playing better than Waldrom. I even thought Quins looked better when he was sin-binned off.

He does have decent hands and grit, but when have we seen him equal let alone better a top rival - Heaslip, Parisse etc.

It's possible Robshaw and Wood would compensate for his non-existent work rate. But he no longer does any one area better than anyone else.

I'm prepared to admit that seeing him trundle up late to ruck after ruck has somewhat soured my opinion of him, but picking Easter is a massive step backwards in my opinion.

I would much rather see a new up and coming 8 take the spot have no fear of that....however who is available.

1) Crane - Injured
2) Guest - Seems almost permanently injured...i believe he's fit again...but he needs games...and will he oust Easter from the Quins team?
3) Grey - Young, inexperienced....i believe he needs Saxons games before even thinking about the 1st Squad.
4) Fearns - Injured
5) Haskell - Taking a sabatical
6) Waldrom - A fat old Kiwi who is playing alright but not massively better than Easter....but as an Englishman i seriously begrudge putting YET ANOTHER foreigner in our national team.

Other Options?
Robshaw / or another 6 playing at 8. Surely you need players playing regularly in that position to make the national spot?

My opinion, stick with Easter...put Wood and Robshaw around him...and they will work nicely...

It's got to be Nick Easter IMO. It's incredibly frustrating that nobody else has been able to step forward, but that is the situation we're left in. If he can play his best every game, I'll be happy because he is a decent player... It's when he fades in and out of games that I get worried.

Other options:

Jamie Gibson: He's young and has played all across the back-row this season, hasn't looked bad at no.8 when he's had the chance though. You wouldn't start him ahead of some of the ones mentioned, but if we're looking at developing long term options, they could do worse than have him in the wider squad.

Waldrom is not in better form then Easter, both are in very good form though and either if they bring it to the top table would be beneficial to England

I'm happy to go with that unless Waldrom replicates that performance against Clermont again against Worcester in which case I'll have to disagree. Waldrom's form has been fairly average, great in attack a bit quiet in defence. However, against Clermont he was exceptional through out. Couple of great turnovers and metres made kept us in the game.

GeordieFalcon wrote:I would much rather see a new up and coming 8 take the spot have no fear of that....however who is available.

1) Crane - Injured
2) Guest - Seems almost permanently injured...i believe he's fit again...but he needs games...and will he oust Easter from the Quins team?
3) Grey - Young, inexperienced....i believe he needs Saxons games before even thinking about the 1st Squad.
4) Fearns - Injured
5) Haskell - Taking a sabatical
6) Waldrom - A fat old Kiwi who is playing alright but not massively better than Easter....but as an Englishman i seriously begrudge putting YET ANOTHER foreigner in our national team.

Other Options?
Robshaw / or another 6 playing at 8. Surely you need players playing regularly in that position to make the national spot?

My opinion, stick with Easter...put Wood and Robshaw around him...and they will work nicely...

I completely take you point, there really isn't much of an option. I suppose there are two schools of thought - 1. Pick the best team now, hope it can win and build a winning mentality, then blood youngsters or 2. Pick some younger, untried players (Grey) and allow them to build international experience in a team that might be losing as a result of inexperience.

I'm not sure there is a definite right course to take, but i'm veering towards the latter at the moment. Grey probably has as much experience as some of the Welsh lads who got thrown in. I know the risk is he sinks, but i think if you kept him around the squad and involved it's less likely (i think this is partly an indication of how bad we've become at bringing players on) You know what you get with Easter, but i don;t think it's enough to win a WC or build a truly great side that can compete with the SH sides regularly, which has to be the aim.

Yes, i think i would rather have Robshaw at 8, with maybe Wood and either Croft or someone a bit bulkier. Wouldn't be massive but it might compete at the breakdown by actually getting there. Plus when i've seen him there this year he's been a massive improvement on Easter, particularly in his workrate. I completely agree about needing to play people in their rightful position, but needs must. Granted Robshaw isn't yet of his standard, but it works fine for Harinordoquy (6 for Biarritz, 8 for France), and they have plenty of talented backrowers. Failing that, i see Waldrom as a slightly better Easter. Similar but more dynamic. I'm not crazy about the thought of picking him, but i'd rather him than Easter.

I'll concede we may be stuck with Easter as a stop gap, but i do get frustrated with people saying 'he makes the hard yards' and 'he's good with bad ball'. My annoyance is that i see him as part of the reason we get such bad ball. The England football team has been the same for years - 'We need a target man to hold the ball up' Why? I don't see any successful teams punting the ball up to some useless clod-hopping yeoman.

Forgot to say Geordie - i do think if Easter has Wood and Robshaw around him it may give him the opportunity to just concentrate on carrying. But they'll have to work like bar-stewards to compensate for him.

Hood i agree with what your saying....and age is not a concern for me...if someone is good enough and playing better than the older guys then put them in.

BUT they have to be playing better than the current incumbant....and is Grey (for all his potential) at the moment playing better than say Easter or Waldrom (the thought of him playing for England doesnt please me)...

IF as is predicted we go for a fairly young inexperienced flank of Robshaw and Wood / Croft, then it might be nice just to have Easter there for some experience.

We can alway have someone like Grey or Guest (if fit) on the bench to come on for half an hour to see how they go....and if he performs...then we can consider starting them....

We need the likes of Fearns to nail that 8 spot for Bath...and Crane being out is a big blow i think....

GeordieFalcon wrote:Hood i agree with what your saying....and age is not a concern for me...if someone is good enough and playing better than the older guys then put them in.

BUT they have to be playing better than the current incumbant....and is Grey (for all his potential) at the moment playing better than say Easter or Waldrom (the thought of him playing for England doesnt please me)...

IF as is predicted we go for a fairly young inexperienced flank of Robshaw and Wood / Croft, then it might be nice just to have Easter there for some experience.

We can alway have someone like Grey or Guest (if fit) on the bench to come on for half an hour to see how they go....and if he performs...then we can consider starting them....

We need the likes of Fearns to nail that 8 spot for Bath...and Crane being out is a big blow i think....

Perhaps that is the best compromise. I honestly doubt the significance of experience with Easter. When we were getting a shellacking from Ireland in the 6N it was the relatively inexperienced Wood who stood up IMO not Easter, who completely shrank. Plus i think both Wood and Robshaw have leadership qualities he lacks, so i'm less concerned. In fact Easter going missing when the pressure is on appears to be a worryingly regular occurrence.

Agree with you on the form issue, i just feel Waldrom is playing better, and Robshaw has at 8 as well. No, you're right, Grey probably isn't doing quite enough, so maybe he does need to show better form first. Personally i'd start Waldrom and maybe have Grey or one of the young guns to come on - Grey can cover 6 and 8 and possibly lock at a push. Not ideal obviously.

I won't lie, a lot of this predicated on my desire to get Easter as far away from the England side as possible. I've never rated him that highly.

It's very disappointing that Fearns is injured. I was really hoping to see him step up and make the 8 position his own.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on playing Easter.

"When we were getting a shellacking from Ireland in the 6N it was the relatively inexperienced Wood who stood up IMO"

Yeah thats the reason i am pushing for Wood over Croft....he was immense in that game...

GeordieFalcon wrote:

"When we were getting a shellacking from Ireland in the 6N it was the relatively inexperienced Wood who stood up IMO"

Yeah thats the reason i am pushing for Wood over Croft....he was immense in that game...

Agreed. My housemate is a Leicester fan, and if you'll pardon the pun, can't see the Wood for the trees (i'm here all week).

Croft at his best is fantastic, but he does need other players around him to compensate for his deficiencies. I think he makes an excellent impact sub but want someone to start who does all the basics a bit better. I think that includes Wood and Robshaw.

Robshaw just does what a backrow should. All the responsibilties they have, he does very well.
Also Wood was interviewed on bbc sport and they spoke about the flanker role he plays for saints, a sorta 6.5 style.