A false dawn for Wales?

After the magical experience of the World Cup, I am coming down with a bump. Adam Jones, Luke Charteris et al being targeted by French clubs; dismal HC results and attendances down to 6000. Was that our moment of glory? If WG sticks to the plan of no overseas players for Wales (and by the way who's decision is that) surely we are going to struggle. Charteris, Lydiate are key and Adam at least for the forseeable, not to mention Phillips. I think these boys deserve their fame and fortune and if something has to give then its surely the overseas player rule. Its a bit ironic that the manager is 'playing away from home"

Im not so stressed although there are concerns. As far as the national team goes, as long as players have release for Wales training then i dont see a problem for the Welsh squad if players are in France. At the moment, Phillips has a release clause, Byrne and Hook dont. Neither B or H would be considered first choice and Phillips is going to come under pressure from Lloyd. Charteris has already stated he will insist on a release clause, Adam Jones is likely to demand the same.

As far as the regional game goes, loss of some of our top players is not ideal but the wage cap is a good idea as it stops the regions from overspending on foreign players and forces them to develop home grown talent. Our HEC results arent that bad if you compare them to previous years. I would bet on the blues making the cut and maybe the dragons for the amlin.

What we need is more group deals for fans and better marketing of live games. That will draw the crowds in which in turn will improve the regions finances. Attendences is the big issue so the regions should be doing group deals with schools and colleges to bring in younger fans and families.

thanks for that Tycroes nice perspective.

2 grandslams and a world cup semi final in 6 years

10 years ago we would have laughed hysterically at the possibility.

THINGS ARE GOOD. Let's not forget RECENT history and how far things have come.

Things are unacceptably inconsistent.

And the mental frailties that lead us to miss out on a RWC Final when it was there for the taking are so deeply entrenched in our collective rugby psyche that we must start to cast off the acceptance of gallant losses and begin to demand results.

There is no glory in loss, it's just loss.

The W is all that counts and it is time to deliver

Gatts wrote:Things are unacceptably inconsistent.

And the mental frailties that lead us to miss out on a RWC Final when it was there for the taking are so deeply entrenched in our collective rugby psyche that we must start to cast off the acceptance of gallant losses and begin to demand results.

There is no glory in loss, it's just loss.

The W is all that counts and it is time to deliver

Well said. We need to cast off the mediocre and get some real ambition. I hate the way some fans are satisfied win such little success.

Our performances in the HC not a concern as we have never really done anything in that comp with the exception of the Scarlets some seasons back and Blues getting to Semis.

Our playres going abroad isn't that big an issue as they will get the mandatory release anyway so its upto them to arrange clauses for longer availaility or Gatland may have to change his stance is a lot go. France made Alfie and Jones far betters players so heres hoping.

Our ability to close games out and get rid of the 'gallant loser' tag is the BIG issue that the managment and players have to overcome.

I think we went some way to doing it in the WC with wins ove Fiji and Samoa, both sides we have shocking previous records against but we need to get over our in-ability to beat the bigger sides consistently.

I know the WRU will not want to be defeatist but on the players leaving Wales issue as it seems to be accepted (and understandable ) that money talks couldn't they get their lawyers to draft an acceptable watertight release clause to insert in players contracts .

The conversation being if your going anyway then make sure you get this agreed and if you don't then its going to be a big factor in your future Welsh selection.

On the false dawn I think it's just the usual bi-polar attitude (and media reporting) to the game here ridiculously high one minute depths of despair next . Just goes with the territory .

It shouldn't be all doom and gloom for Wales. You had a much more promising world cup than all the other home nations. You unearthed some great young talent like Faletau and will be a tough side in the 6 nations.

Don't be disheartened by the poor European campaigns so far. Welsh clubs haven't made much impact in Europe in general so it's essentially business as usual. Also Scarlets and Blues still have realistic shots at qualification anyway.

Having two out of the four regions in the mix isn't bad. You are not going to win every match. Look how many English and French clubs whose European dreams are over.

Just from an outside perspective.

You need to remain realistic and celebrate the successes, failure or mediocre performances in professional sport is not only applicable to Welsh rugby, it seems only New Zealand is impervious to it.

Remember this, many times on these boards I have read the structures in Wales aren't the best they can be. Some regions aren't fully utilised or developed, your schools from what I understand doesn't have the comprehensive structure in place as it is in a country like New Zealand.

You have a small population, ontop of this your climate for outdoor sport isn't the most favourable of the rugby nations.

The fact is Wales do punch above their weight. You have four regions that could perhaps be a little more successful in the Heineken cup, I don't know.

The point I am trying to make is Wales has a proud rugby tradition and regularly achieve good wins over big teams, celebrate them and ejoy the ride.

I dont think we'll know what sort of Dawn we've had until the 6nations is over.

The Regions are having the same problems they've each had for years, these problems need to be addressed.

What gatland has proven is that we have the players in Wales to win at the top level, IF THE COACHING IS GOOD ENOUGH. I dont think we have any mental frailty as an international team to be honest. I think theres a problem with taking points from kicks at goal under pressure, time and time again we've put ourselves in positions to win the big games, only to fall short through missing kicks you'd expect Priestland/Jones/Hook to knock over. You only have to look back at the world cup games against SA/Samoa/Ireland and France to see that Wales are no longer "mentally weak" as has been bandied about. Thats a load of nonsense that gets right up my jubblies.

We have such a bi-polar attitude to rugby in wales, we're either on top of the world, or being crushed under its weight. As Bill said, we punch above our weight for a small country, and expect more than we should because of the great welsh teams of the past. However, I think we're going in the right direction and Gatland has found a way to get the players to really buy into his thinking/plans.

Comfort-
You could see at the WC there was a problem with kicking. I wonder what Neil Jenkins thought of that. They were huge pressure kicks. Saw Stephen Jones training in Waitomo before the Namibia game. Took a few kicks at goal. It looks pretty easy but no pressure. Maybe Trotskys dictum applies train hard fight easy. How many kicks at goal did JW do in training or Chris Paterson who someone posted hasn't missed in two years. Hook Jones HP Priestland all failed its contagious the poisoned chalice. Perhaps they need a Kicking School.

Dontheman wrote:Comfort-
You could see at the WC there was a problem with kicking. I wonder what Neil Jenkins thought of that. They were huge pressure kicks. Saw Stephen Jones training in Waitomo before the Namibia game. Took a few kicks at goal. It looks pretty easy but no pressure. Maybe Trotskys dictum applies train hard fight easy. How many kicks at goal did JW do in training or Chris Paterson who someone posted hasn't missed in two years. Hook Jones HP Priestland all failed its contagious the poisoned chalice. Perhaps they need a Kicking School.

I know what you mean, but in fairness Jonny Wilkinson had a few shockers with the boot during the world cup if memory serves. Not sure he's the best example in this instance! But you're right our kickers did seem to crumble under pressure. As others have said it was the missed kicks that lost us the SA game, the semi, etc. nothing else.

absolutely, and usually these guys are international standard kickers, it seems its the pressure kicks we miss regularly, not the others.

I think the whole "mentally frail" thing is ridiculous, we've become a controlled team with a simple gameplan and the players seemed to have every belief in themselves and the system from the WC warm-ups onwards. We created enough scoring chaces in every single game we played to win those games, missing the points let us down.

Its been a problem for a while now, i remember the Ireland grandslam game a few years back and Jones missed a long range kick ever so slightly, but, it was a pressure kick, and it missed. thats the point.

the last welsh player i remember knocking over a really good kick at goal under pressure to win the game was Henson vs England 2005.

Maybe my minds just being selective to back me up, but it says it all to me!

Dontheman wrote:Comfort-
You could see at the WC there was a problem with kicking. I wonder what Neil Jenkins thought of that. They were huge pressure kicks. Saw Stephen Jones training in Waitomo before the Namibia game. Took a few kicks at goal. It looks pretty easy but no pressure. Maybe Trotskys dictum applies train hard fight easy. How many kicks at goal did JW do in training or Chris Paterson who someone posted hasn't missed in two years. Hook Jones HP Priestland all failed its contagious the poisoned chalice. Perhaps they need a Kicking School.

Understatement of the century

Problem?

We fell apart, 35 points missed off the boot and the total winning margin in the games we lost was 5 (That's F I V E ) points

Someone needs a kick up the arse...but we'd probably miss

Wales are still a 7th, or 8th ranked team who had a good run at the last World cup where they lost as many games as they won.

Wales only beat one team of note (Ireland) and lost to the SH teams they played.

Not really a Worldbeating performance now is it, but hey anythings better than it has been for Wales and they are definately on the up, but it remains to see how this team will progress in the future, because like my own team, England, there have been far too many false dawns!! Hope the next 6 nations is a good one for both teams, after this last WC. Then when the results are in we can begin to sort out the Wheat from the chaff!!