Wales backline for Six Nations

First topic message reminder :

If Jamie Roberts is injured or not firing on all cylinders then I would like to see Henson return to 12. Against England in August and last night for the Blues he still showed he can play well without any form or run of matches.

The Jamie Roberts crash ball is only effective sometimes and it doesn't free up the backline. Henson's flat passing and offloading can bring the likes of JD2, North & Halfpenny into space and make Wales a threat again.

I believe JD2 is the most potent threat in the backline at the moment and should be the first back on the teamsheet. I would like to see North remain on the wing, but involve himself as much as possible. Halfpenny does a great job at fullback and I would play him there until Stoddart recovers, but he must be more involved as he was great last night.

I would pick:

15. Halfpenny
14. North
13. JD2
12. Henson
11. Cuffbutt
10. Priestland / Hook (depends how well Hook continues to play at Perpignan)
9. Phillips

20. Williams
21. Hook / Priestland
22. Byrne / Roberts

Problem being if Roberts is out then the two players with experience whose names will be chucked around are Hook and Henson, neither of which for me are worthy of starting slots at the moment.

If he is out then I guess a safe (ish) option would be to go with the Regional partnership of JD2 and Williams especially as Preistland is likely (hopefully) going to be the starting 10.

I don't know Casartelli, Ashley Beck has a real touch of class about him. If he's played badly recently I must have missed it. And I couldn't agree less about JD2, he's a superb player.

I know this may sound bit silly but it's not always about having best players on the pitch but more about best combinations and JD2 and Roberts do seem to work very well together as a centre pairing.

I doubt Gatland would split that pairing up if he could help it.

im not sure why people get so exicted over Henson....IMO he is massively overrated

He is now, at hi sbest he is world class and we Welsh love our nostalgia, he also has unfinished business because he has never fulfilled his potential. He could make it back if his attitude is right, he remains injury free and his class translates to consistent form but i doubt he will

If you actually watched his comeback games then you will see that hes on his way back to his best

gowales wrote:If you actually watched his comeback games then you will see that hes on his way back to his best

I actually did and I actually think he is nowhere near his best and not worthy of the red shirt

People see what they want to see, especially when it comes to Gavin Henson. From what I've seen of him for the Blues, against the Dragons and against the Ospreys, he still looks like he has time on the ball, but most of the time he was running the ball back from full back and was hardly under pressure. Only a fool would want to throw him into midfield for a Test match after a few regional games at full back.

Gatts i wasn't responding to you. I was responding to cricketfan90 who said he was overrated.
What i should have said is he's on the right path to getting back to his best.

Henson isn't ready yet and he admits that himself.

Gatland will have to take a risk on him if he wants him in the squad as he names the squad this month.

To be anywhere then he has to play every game for the Blues between now and the 6 Nations.

Morning Beds

Thing is though with a player who has been around the National set up for so long it isnt a huge risk getting them involved. I am confident with another few good performances Henson will be in the squad.

Maesteg, surely you can't expect a player whose only rugby for months has been a handful of games at full back to suddenly be up to Test-match standard at centre?

Gatts wrote:oh and those backing henson...

aren't there numerous better options (except hook)

henson is on a long road back. a few more games at fb, if thats where the blues can use him. bench if no space at fb.
i dont think he should be selected for the 6n squad. and i dont think he will be. maybe at the blues he can have a crack at centre during the 6N.

henson is going to have to be managed very carefully at club level if he is to stand a remote chance of playing for wales again.
he has had a few nice touches, and a few poor ones. but the stand out thing with henson at the moment is his mental attitude. he is playing for the team and is accepting his place as bottom head on the totem pole gracefully. but the rest of the blues still seem a bit unsure of him.

if he's a very lucky boy they might ask him to go on the summer tour. (cue water boy jokes)

maestegmafia wrote:Morning Beds

Thing is though with a player who has been around the National set up for so long it isnt a huge risk getting them involved. I am confident with another few good performances Henson will be in the squad.

Morning Maes,

I have absolutely no doubtt hat if he stays fit between now and the 6 Nations squad announcement then he will be named but if the Blues keep him at XV then its a big ask if we want him to move to the centre for Wales.

Beds

I see your point, but he has played the majority of his rugby at center or flyhalf. I think he will be fine returning to his old position.

Though I would like to see the Blues give him the next month there to be honest before the Six nations.

It would be madness and deeply unfair on both Henson and the centre he'd be keeping out of the starting XV to expect him to pick up where he left off as if he'd never been away. We have some quality centres to choose from in Wales, we don't have to rush him back.

Honestly Im looking at Henson more as full back cover initially for the six nations. playing with halfpenny is a bit of an advantage there. If he is to start in the centre for wales he needs more than a couple of games there for the Blues but he could be a genuine option at fullback by the six nations.

A back three of Henson North and Halfpenny is quite tasty! With Cuthbert to come on at some point, Henson could then move into a second reciever role when the game opens up moving halfpenny accrosss to 15; bring cuthbert on and really go on the attack. If Roberts then moved accross to 13 just with one tactical sub we move the whole focus of attack into wider channels forcing the opposition to shift defensive patterns when they are tired. Its almost a perfect scenario in teh last quarter of a game.

Henson is fine short term but if we are building for 2015 then we should be looking at introducing the youngsters.Liam Williams & co is the future

Henson will sill be younger than Shane or Wellies were this year in 2015 and has stated he wants to go to the RWC in 2015 so he is a long term option if his head stays focussed.

Lets be fair promising as Liam is he is nowhere near the player Henson could be.

Mike Phillips has been cleared by Bayonne to attend part of Wales' pre-Six Nations training camp in Poland.

Bayonne are to release the scrum-half for three days of Wales' ice chambers visit in Spala from 22 January.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/welsh/16427344.stm

TycroesOsprey wrote:Henson will sill be younger than Shane or Wellies were this year in 2015 and has stated he wants to go to the RWC in 2015 so he is a long term option if his head stays focussed.

Lets be fair promising as Liam is he is nowhere near the player Henson could be.

He has missed three years of Rugby effectively so he should have prolonged his playing career.

Thats good news Maes, as has been stated before there's no reason why the French clubs should with hold their players but I suspect Phillips would have been picked even if he didn't attend the Poland camp.

He could well want to be part of the squad in 2015 but by then he will be 33 compared to Liam who will be 23.
I have nothing against Gavin actually I'm one of his biggest admirers when it comes to his playing style but his past record does play a part in my reluctance to accept him as being a long term option.

Cymro,

When you compare it like that then we had Priestland and Wellies of similar age and difference so both could well be involved.

Agree though as most do its all about his mindset and if his heads in the right place.

bedfordwelsh wrote:Thats good news Maes, as has been stated before there's no reason why the French clubs should with hold their players but I suspect Phillips would have been picked even if he didn't attend the Poland camp.

ithink we saw in the summer that Gats values the training camps very highly... Hense no Peel or Delve for the RWC.

Good news for Wales that the French are playing ball...! Now that PRL, what can we do about them...????

Makes me think that there was some sort of release clause in the contract.

Cymroglan wrote:Makes me think that there was some sort of release clause in the contract.

did a welsh test player moving abroad FINALLY GET ONE?!

Just a verbal one I think...but great to see that even with new management they stuck to it!

maestegmafia wrote:Mike Phillips has been cleared by Bayonne to attend part of Wales' pre-Six Nations training camp in Poland.

Bayonne are to release the scrum-half for three days of Wales' ice chambers visit in Spala from 22 January.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/welsh/16427344.stm

Well, according to that article, Gatland is also trying to get Byrne and Hook available for training

Im not surprised about Hook, but I though Byrne's international career was over :/

As much as i'd love to win the world cup in 2015. I'm getting a bit tired of this lets get rid of this guy and that guy because he will be over 30 by 2015 business. There is no guarantee that we will win whatever we do. And as we saw with Australia who had been building towards 2011 since 07/08 it didn't exactly work out for them.
If we are going to introduce loads of new players, some veterans are going to have to be involved as well and they will, Gatland isn't that stupid. As we have seen in all the past world cups the teams with the most experience win.
I'd rather have a good winning record between now and the world cup than hedging are bets on winning it.

He is 31 I think so I am surprised he is to be included.

Has looked good for CA though.

The problem with relying on Henson for the 2015 WC is that although he's had almost 3 years away from the game (break if you will) and so shouldn't be as battered when he gets to the age of 33, he's also got a shocking injury record and seems a bit brittle. As such it could very well be that he's so injury ravaged by 2015 that he won't be anywhere near international standard (or will have given up and stopped playing again)

True but we don't have to rely on him for 2015 because thats 4 years away. Lets use him when he is on form and not injured, not saying hes on form yet but hes getting there.

I was responding to people who were saying he could play until the next WC.

Personally I think this 6N is too soon for him because he hasn't had much gametime and all of that gametime has been in 1 position, he hasn't looked as good as Liam W, Halfpenny or the little of what I've seen of Byrne in that position (although i'm open to changing my mind on Byrne if someone's seen more of his play). He looks like he still has things to work on, understandably, like strenghening his tackle and making breaking the gainline/tackles, but has showed that he still has pace, a good boot and good hands.

I'd want him to get gametime at centre and/or flyhalf and play quite a bit more and see how he goes, if he goes well plays consistently and doesn't get injured then I think the summer tour would be perfect for him. Then we just need to see how he measures up against the other options

TycroesOsprey wrote:Lets be fair promising as Liam Williams is he is nowhere near the player Henson could be.

That's ridiculous. You can't use one unknown to dismiss another unknown.

Smirnoffpriest wrote:
... I think the summer tour would be perfect for him. Then we just need to see how he measures up against the other options

im not sure this summer would be a good idea. maybe next year when the welsh lions are away (im sure there will be some)

henson need to really join a club. he needs to work on his club form for at least this season. then he needs to get a proper pro contract. then, maybe, we can consider him for more international honours.

btw, im a big fan of the orange. and he's doing great at the blues already.

luckless_pedestrian wrote:

TycroesOsprey wrote:Lets be fair promising as Liam Williams is he is nowhere near the player Henson could be.

That's ridiculous. You can't use one unknown to dismiss another unknown.

Not really - Henson world player of the year at Liams age at his best he is one of the best players in the world. Liam Williams is a strong runner with good hands and a big if not accurate boot. He is nowhere near the talent that Henson has. Im an admirer of Liam Williams but Gav is a once a generation player when focussed. Liam Williams is a good player who will be a good international. Henson could still become a great.

Yea agreed Liam is a very solid player but i don't think he has the ability to become a great one. While Henson was rated among the best from a young age, thats why there has always been so much expectation of him.

TycroesOsprey wrote:

luckless_pedestrian wrote:

TycroesOsprey wrote:Lets be fair promising as Liam Williams is he is nowhere near the player Henson could be.

That's ridiculous. You can't use one unknown to dismiss another unknown.

Not really - Henson world player of the year at Liams age at his best he is one of the best players in the world. Liam Williams is a strong runner with good hands and a big if not accurate boot. He is nowhere near the talent that Henson has. Im an admirer of Liam Williams but Gav is a once a generation player when focussed. Liam Williams is a good player who will be a good international. Henson could still become a great.

Henson is hardly an unknown, rather he is one of the most known players in Britain, also credited for his big part in much of what has been very good about Welsh rugby in the last decade. 2 grandslams etc.

You might not like the guy personally you may not think he can resume the level he once played at, but to deride his impact and achievements is just silly.

ahhh henson, how we've missed him. but, come on chaps, he is still a long way off. even if his form returned completly the guy still needs to be rehabilitated into the game. no one wants him waltzing (pun, oops) back into the wales squad. i dont and im a big fan. i want him to earn his place. the guy rubbed a lot of people up the wrong way and he needs to earn trust and respect again. i think its coming. lets see how he goes with the blues again this weekend. lets see how soon before he picks up a blackeye in training.

But Liam Williams is at the beginning of his career. How can any of us possibly know how good a player he could become?

And Maesteg, I have nothing against Gavin Henson, I just want him to be back to his best before we play him in a Test match. It would be unfair on him to throw him in before he's ready for it.

He could become a great player but i just don't see what else he can offer apart from being solid and quite fast. Compared to other top fullbacks around the world he is missing something.

The only thing he lacks to the other top fullbacks of this world is experience he has all the other ingredients to become one of the best.
Don't ask him to catch pigs though with them bow legs of his.

Not sure how you can say what he can offer yet GoWales as he is just starting out and is still developing - but he has looked very good in the games he has had, composed, steady under the high ball, fast, and good tackling, plus a big boot - he could become great or he could become just a decent international who knows. But one thing I would say is that he's played better in the games he's played for the Scarlets this season than Henson has for the Blues.

But who knows how each are going to improve (or get worse) as the season goes along.

I still stand by my comment that at the mo the 6N looks too soon for Henson as no matter how good he was 5/6 seasons ago, he needs to play really well for a good few games this season before getting into the Wales squad.

Byrne is also available for training just been announced on ITV news.

Cymroglan wrote: Byrne is also available for training just been announced on ITV news.

That settles it...Henson over Byrne any day of the week

Gatts wrote:

Cymroglan wrote: Byrne is also available for training just been announced on ITV news.

That settles it...Henson over Byrne any day of the week

Id pick my dead gran over Byrne at full back.

Does anyone know how Byrne is doing with Clermont?

There have been plenty of reports on how Hook is doing (not well by most) and a few on Phillipss form but very quiet on Byrne.

If he is playing well then I can see him being included in squad at least, hopefully now Gatland will see that Halfpenny should be our 1st choice XV but Byrne in the sqaud if on form won't be a bad thing.

As for being released for training camps both Phillips and Byrne have been released but must be back in France for 25 Jan, not heard anything on Hook yet.