Wales backline for Six Nations

First topic message reminder :

If Jamie Roberts is injured or not firing on all cylinders then I would like to see Henson return to 12. Against England in August and last night for the Blues he still showed he can play well without any form or run of matches.

The Jamie Roberts crash ball is only effective sometimes and it doesn't free up the backline. Henson's flat passing and offloading can bring the likes of JD2, North & Halfpenny into space and make Wales a threat again.

I believe JD2 is the most potent threat in the backline at the moment and should be the first back on the teamsheet. I would like to see North remain on the wing, but involve himself as much as possible. Halfpenny does a great job at fullback and I would play him there until Stoddart recovers, but he must be more involved as he was great last night.

I would pick:

15. Halfpenny
14. North
13. JD2
12. Henson
11. Cuffbutt
10. Priestland / Hook (depends how well Hook continues to play at Perpignan)
9. Phillips

20. Williams
21. Hook / Priestland
22. Byrne / Roberts

Really? I think that Beck has been in much better form than Scott Williams thus far. Pretty much every game this season hes has been one of the better players for the Ospreys.
Remember that Williams was only brought into the squad because of the lack of centres in Wales! Now there are plenty of options.

I think that Roberts and JD2 should be first choice. And Beck should be in the squad, we really need some creativity in the centres and hes probably the only one bar Henson in Wales that can offer it.

I think Beck will def been in any training/extended squad named, Hughes I fear may dip out due to our run of recent poor form but hope I am wrong.

Id value Hughes as he is an outside center/flyer, has very good hands and a strong defence.

mm,

I agree but will be surprised if he gets nod, pleasantly surprised mind.

I have been very happy with Gatlands Squad selections over the last 18 months, he has reflected opportunity where form was shown, he has a good eye. We haven't had many clangers of recent, and those of the past were of negligible circumstance or short term form.

Though I agree, I am not sure hughes has done enough yet... But of the Dragons backline I would gladly see Hughes appointed along with Tovey.

May be at the expense of Brew. I think he may find himself hard done by this season with his place going to Cuthbert or Liam Williams.

I agree mm, and all in all its quite a sttled squad now so unles injuries or retirement (shane) dictates I can't see too many changes.

We will obviously need to look at 2nd row with Charteris definately out and AWJ and Evans doubts.

A lot will depend on his opinion of Hook, if he doesn't use him then that frees up another centre or 3rd O/Half slot.

Yes this player release thing is intriguing. I was chatting to a friend at the WRU just before Christmas and he said that none of the Welsh players abroad were able to establish anymore than a verbal contract for International release due to French employment law. I am not sure I know much about French law, all I know is that they work a maximum hours week, but cant imagine that affects anything. They do have nice long lunch breaks which I always enjoyed when there on business.

Apparently Mike Phillips was under good authority that Bayonne would release him at any point he was required by the Welsh Squad, but they have recently changed coaches so that may have changed.

Warren Gatland is requiring the Welsh Squad assemble one week prior to the IRB window. The weekend two before the Six nations is HEC, I presume the Squad plan to assemble on Monday the 23rd after the HEC. The following weekend is under the IRB window giving WG two weeks with them.

I don't think the French clubs will have a problem, it would be the PRL that would create the problem, as they would refuse to let Welsh players leave their clubs in England without Financial compensation which rightly the WRU will refuse them. Craig Mitchell would likely be the only player affected and possibly left out of the squad due to being abroad

if we assume no players from outside of Wales, and that Roberts IS injured.

9. Webb
10. Priestland
11. Cuthbert
12. JD2
13. Hughes
14. North
15. Halfpenny

(bench: Lloyd Williams/Tovey/Sc.Williams)

or

9. Webb
10. Priestland
11. Halfpenny
12. JD2
13. Sc.Williams
14. North
15. Liam Williams

(bench: Lloyd Williams/Tovey/Hughes)

if all players are available;

9, Phillips
10. Priestland
11. Cuthbert
12. Roberts
13. JD2
14. North
15. Half penny

(bench: Webb/ovey/iam Williams)

also, no idea why anyone here who has watched any rugby this season would be advocating moving Lydiate from 6 for Wales, seriously.

i can't see why the French clubs will refuse their Welsh players to join the squad as the training dates do not interfere with their games.

where has adam warren been the last couple of months? injured or down with a premiership club?

Why would you mess with a Jamie/JD centre pairing?

Why on earth would you re-introduce Bobo the Tangerine Swordsman when by a great many accounts he is a divisive influence on the squad?

I watch quite a lot of Top 14 incidentally and whilst Hook has been fine, in all honesty I don't think he's been brilliant.

9. Lloyd Williams
10. Rhys Priestland
11. Alex Cuthbert
12. Jamie Roberts
13. Scott Williams
14. George North
15. Leigh Halfpenny

If Roberts is injured then:
12. Jonothan Davies
13. Scott Williams

Comfort wrote:
also, no idea why anyone here who has watched any rugby this season would be advocating moving Lydiate from 6 for Wales, seriously.

Lydiate's ankle that is on and off. Ryan Jones has been in excellent form. I think he will get even better away from the Ospreys (so will Beck).

09 Mike Phillips
10 Stephen Jones
11 Leigh Halfpenny
12 Jamie Roberts
13 Jonathan Davies
14 George North
15 Rhys Priestland

Right now I think thats your best backline to take on Ireland

Assuming all are fit bar Charteris and AWJ who are already out.

1. Gethin Jenkins
2. Matthew Rees
3. Adam Jones
4. Bradley Davies
5. Ian Evans (AWJ when he returns)
6. Dan Lydiate
7. Sam Warburton
8. Toby Faletau
9. Mike Phillips
10. Rhys Preistland
11. Alex Cuthbert
12. Jamie Roberts
13. Jonathon Davies
14. George North
15. Leigh Halfpenny

16. Paul James
17. Huw Bennett
18. Ryan Jones
19. Ben Morgan/Justin Tipuric
20. Lloyd Williams
21. James Hook
22. Liam Williams



If foreign players are not selected and Roberts is out.

1. Gethin Jenkins
2. Matthew Rees
3. Adam Jones
4. Bradley Davies
5. Ian Evans (AWJ when he returns)
6. Dan Lydiate
7. Sam Warburton
8. Toby Faletau
9. Lloyd Williams
10. Rhys Preistland
11. Alex Cuthbert
12. Jonathon Davies
13. Scott Williams
14. George North
15. Leigh Halfpenny

16. Paul James
17. Huw Bennett
18. Ryan Jones
19. Ben Morgan/Justin Tipuric
20. Rhys Webb
21. A Flyhalf (bar Stephen Jones, im not confident in any others and SJ is too old)
22. Gavin Henson

606,

I think you got it pretty nailed there from both angles.

Can anyone explain why the French clubs might not release their Welsh players for the Pre Six nations training ?

Because they don't have to and any potential injuries picked up by Gats driving them too hard won't be covered by the clubs insurance maybe?

Surely the WRU insure players under there care...!

I think it is to do with the will of the club and thats about it.

Only during a IRB window as far as I know - one of the reasons why the English players aren't released

Smirnoffpriest wrote:Only during a IRB window as far as I know - one of the reasons why the English players aren't released

The Players based in england aren't released because of the PRL wanting to make cash out of everyone. I think release is down to clubs in France. They can be obstinate as Toulouse often were with Gareth Thomas or helpful as CA were with Wellies.

Even the English clubs are happy to let Welsh players go to training if they are not being used. It is the PRL that prevent them from being allowed to go.

I don't want to start a English player release argument again apologies - I did say one of the reasons - and it's quite an important one as PRL want money 1. to protect their negotiating position with the ERU and 2. to cover the insurance aspect and protect their clubs and players. The WRU won't pay either because they won't negotiate with the PRL but only with the ERU.

It's all a lot of hot air IMO as the ERU/PRL don't need Welsh money and their isn't that many Welsh ints playing in England to warrent the WRU putting money in the English game.

But your right French clubs could release their players but they don't have to - and you have to ask if they let the players go earlier than the IRB window this time where do they draw the line - will Gats ask for 3 weeks next year?

The French can release them if they want to, I suppose its down to how good relationships are between WRU and French teams and how good we are at negociating.

Apparently Ben Morgan will qualify in time for the 6 nations. Unless he chooses England i expect him to be in the squad

bedfordwelsh wrote:The French can release them if they want to, I suppose its down to how good relationships are between WRU and French teams and how good we are at negociating.

At least in France we deal with the governing body of the sport. It is quite difficult to work out who runs the English game, it should be the RFU but it appears to be more the PRL or this Gaming Board.

Luckily as you say most of our players are in France. I think the relationship between the WRU and the FFR has been good so lets hope there are no objections to players training with the Welsh squad rather than sitting on their bottoms doing noting in their French clubs.

Time will tell mm, I still think he will use Phillips and Hook even if he has them only for the allocated time.

gowales wrote:Apparently Ben Morgan will qualify in time for the 6 nations. Unless he chooses England i expect him to be in the squad

Sorry wrong section

Phillips/ Peel
Priestland /Jones/Tovey
Roberts/S Williams/JD2
North/Halfpenny/Cuthbert
Byrne/Liam Williams

Scrum half is a worry as only Phillips looks up to test level. Peel if fit must be considered as cover. Lloyd Williams, Webb, Knoyle need more experience.

Jones is still needed as cover for Priestland as Biggar and Tovey are not yet up to test standard.

Halfpenny and North on the wings with Byrne at 15, Cuthbert, Brew and Liam Williams are ones for the future.

I have not consdered Hook as he is not having a happy time in France, does not appear to be first choice 10 (he played the last 2 games as Porical is injured), he is struggling in a poor Perpignan side. Also Henson will need a run of at least 6 games before he can be assessed.

What are you on about Hook is first choice, French clubs do a lot of rotating throughout the season and how do you know that Hook hasn't picked up a nigle or two. Also Porical is a Fullback not a flyhalf

Beck's been one of the stand out performers for the O's this season. I'd say it's between him and S. Williams (who hasn't really impressed since the Namibia game) for a bench spot.

I've been impressed with Beck and wouldn't mind him or Scott for a bench spot

gowales wrote:What are you on about Hook is first choice, French clubs do a lot of rotating throughout the season and how do you know that Hook hasn't picked up a nigle or two. Also Porical is a Fullback not a flyhalf

According to Planet Rugby web site Hook did not play between 25th Nov and 23rd Dec, not exactly rotation. Porical was goal kicker in Hook's absence but is now injured so Hook is back in the team. Perpignan continue to struggle and are a shaddow of the side that did so well in the Heineken last season.

Hook was woeful in the World Cup and seems to be continuing in the same form. Wales have better players and adequate back up at 10, centre and full back. Until (and if) he regains form, Hook is not even a squad player for Wales IMO.

Seagultaf wrote:

gowales wrote:What are you on about Hook is first choice, French clubs do a lot of rotating throughout the season and how do you know that Hook hasn't picked up a nigle or two. Also Porical is a Fullback not a flyhalf

According to Planet Rugby web site Hook did not play between 25th Nov and 23rd Dec, not exactly rotation. Porical was goal kicker in Hook's absence but is now injured so Hook is back in the team. Perpignan continue to struggle and are a shaddow of the side that did so well in the Heineken last season.

Hook was woeful in the World Cup and seems to be continuing in the same form. Wales have better players and adequate back up at 10, centre and full back. Until (and if) he regains form, Hook is not even a squad player for Wales IMO.

In fairness - everyone who donned the Welsh 10 jersey in the RWC was woeful. Jones was the worst.

At least Hook can drop kick.

Jones was much better than Hook, even carrying and injury - but Priestland out shone them both.

As inconsistent as Hook is at 10 (because he's never been given a run of games there) - he's never;

i. duffed a sitter 90 degrees sideways from straight in front of the posts (Priestland) or
ii. hit a complete air-shot from straight in front (Jones). Actually, Jones is the only pro player I've ever seen who's done that.

They were all below par in the RWC. To say any one of them was 'much better' or 'out shone'(?) another is rather wide of the mark.

Like a Jones or Priestland drop goal.

He did miss quite a few kicks in the WC and his percentages have never been that good, so I wouldn't promote the fact that Hook is a much better kicker.

Also Priestland was miles ahead of either Jones or Hook in the WC, he got the backs moving, played the game in the right areas, offered a threat to keep the defence honest - none of which Hook did.

I don't see why Evans and Peel keep getting mentioned for the 9 spot. Evans' form has been fairly poor this season and his service seems to be the worst of the lot.

Peel is living off past reputation, getting a bit long in the tooth and likely to be unavailable. The negatives outweigh the positives.

I'd rather see Williams and Webb in the 22, with either Knoyle (depending form), Phillips (for experience) or G. Davies (as a wildcard) in the squad.

I just watched peel play for sale at Wexford road, he did well but he is not as good as the starters at the regions or Phillips.

Nick McLeod played well, kicked very well. Shingler had a decent return playing flyhalf for London Irish though on the losing team. Darren Alinson the former blues scrum half is his half back partner.

Having watched the Christmas and new years derby's I think this would be my suggested backline of preference.

Phillips
Priestland
Cuthbert
Roberts
Davies
North
Halfpenny

I would have a bench of

Lloyd Williams
Stephen jones
Liam Williams

I would include Gavin Henson, Scott Williams,Ashley Beck, Rhys Webb and Jason Tovey to the squad for training and injury cover.

Casartelli wrote:As inconsistent as Hook is at 10 (because he's never been given a run of games there) - he's never;

i. duffed a sitter 90 degrees sideways from straight in front of the posts (Priestland) or
ii. hit a complete air-shot from straight in front (Jones). Actually, Jones is the only pro player I've ever seen who's done that.

They were all below par in the RWC. To say any one of them was 'much better' or 'out shone'(?) another is rather wide of the mark.

Like a Jones or Priestland drop goal.

Hook's goal kicking at the WC was pants, and if you remember he also did miss a kick right in front of the posts. Priestlands kicking was only a little better but his all round play miles ahead. Despite carrying an injury Jones played significantly better than Hook and his kicking percentages were amongst the best in the competition!

Jones and Hook were both terrible admit it.

I didn't rate either at the world cup. But lack of games would have been a big factor for both.

Jones has looked better for Scarlets, seems to have gained form. Havent seen much of Hook.

Jones has done well for the Scarlets this season - haven't seen much of Hook but he has the potential to be a good 10 - so neither are terrible. And it's funny how many people are saying Hook is awful and we don't need him considering how many people were saying before the WC he was the best thing since sliced bread and if we didn't have Hook at 10 then we wouldn't win a single game

i am suprised so many are talking as if Cuthbert is a cert for the squad. the lad's good but surely Brew still has more to offer at the moment.

i feel sorry for hook. he has been d1cked about so much and now he is going to be completely overlooked because gavin will fill in as utility back, bench cover.

Not sure why people seem so persuaded to deride any Welsh player? We are lucky to have so much talent available to us for the Six Nations.

Every year there seem to be new names thrown into the hat after they enter the stage and display their skills.

Adam Warren has been good, Adam Hughes should not be over looked either.

Next year could well bring the exciting Owen Williams's from the sevens squad. Plenty of optimism in the Welsh backline.

maestegmafia wrote:

Next year could well bring the exciting Owen Williams's from the sevens squad. Plenty of optimism in the Welsh backline.

Well, with Laulaula likely to leave at the end of the season and Williams considered a 13 at CRFC then he could get an opportunity next season.

Im certainly not deriding Hooky, in fact im still a big fan of his and i think it is unfair for people to judge him on his world cup performance with his injury and lack of time at 10 before his start against France where to be honest he wasn't gonna have much of an influence on play with 14 men on the field. Although his goal kicking was pretty bad, but you can't blame a loss on a kicker.
It annoys me however that someone said that Stephen Jones was much better than him at the world cup when he obviously wasn't.

why do you think Hook was better than Jones GoWales?

wales606 wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

Next year could well bring the exciting Owen Williams's from the sevens squad. Plenty of optimism in the Welsh backline.

Well, with Laulaula likely to leave at the end of the season and Williams considered a 13 at CRFC then he could get an opportunity next season.

Thats interesting.

If you have seen him in the Sevens you will know exactly what an exciting prospect he is for the fifteen man game.

Out and out outside centers are out of vogue (4 uses of the word out there, rather impressed with myself) at the regions at the moment but it is a very different position to inside center, where we have some very good players.

One of the reasons I am a big fan of Adam hughes is that he plays 13 so well.

He wasn't better but he certainly wasn't worse.