It looks like Grant Fox will become a Selector for the All Blacks...

by maestegmafia Tue Dec 27, 2011 8:37 pm

Grant Fox wrote:"The chance to be involved with the All Blacks again, a team I care passionately about, was too good an opportunity to turn down and I was flattered when Steve called me and said he wanted me to be a selector," he said.

"They (the All Blacks) climbed their Everest this year and now the aim will be to maintain that success."

by bedfordwelsh Tue Dec 27, 2011 8:44 pm

Somebody mentioned during the WC that they hoped he would get involved, looks like the get their wish.

by maestegmafia Tue Dec 27, 2011 9:03 pm

Good man for the job, he has been a solid part of Auckland and the Auckland Blues coaching staff for a large part of the last decade.

I have listened to his commentary before and he was always very profound.

Steve Hansen seems to be putting his own team around him, Wayne Smith and Mike Cron have already departed. Deciding wisely to not be seen as hanging on to the Graham Henry era, even though it was one of the All Blacks most fruitful periods.

So far Hansen has taken Ian Foster a stalwart from Waikato as his assistant and former Samoan Assistant coach Brian McLean in charge of defence.

This is starting to have the look of a classic, hardnosed All Black team from the old days.

by kiakahaaotearoa Tue Dec 27, 2011 11:27 pm

Ian Foster was in charge of the Chiefs (and in particular the backs) but his forwards had a horror run of injuries and they never clicked. With Colin Cooper, he formed a very useful partnership with the now defunct Junior ABs who were unbeaten for two years.

It´ll be interesting to see how Foster goes with a decent pack to get his backs front foot ball. I´d like to see us more adventurous in the backs. We played a very conservative approach in the RWC mainly because we have come unstuck in the past trying the expansive approach. But now with that monkey off our back, I´d like to see us become as deadly as the Aussie backline when it isn´t hampered by injury and everyone is in the right position.

Aussie McLean has been with Canterbury rugby as well and knows these players well. He´s not a big household name internationally like Foster but he has served his apprenticeship in NZ. To me that´s counted against people like Kirwan who have done their coaching overseas but not in the NZ set-up. If Joseph can further improve the Highlanders who fell away in the second half of the Super competition, he might well be a name for the future.

Henry changed positions with Steve Hansen and started coaching the forwards to turn a dip in form around. It worked so I´m hoping the people surrounding Hansen bring in some fresh ideas. Fox is a canny decision and the think outside the box specialist coach Byrne should bring in fresh ideas.

To stay at the top, you need to do the basics well. But you also have to keep on innovating and find new areas to get yourselves over the advantage line. The jury is out on these new additions but the knives will be out swiftly if the ABs don´t perform. There will be no grace period. We have very few players who have left and we have a lot of experience still across the park. Over the next four years there may well be new players taking over the reins but really what we demand most of all is consistency.

by eirebilly Wed Dec 28, 2011 12:26 am

What a player Grant Fox was, simply sublime and very intelligent. He will be a huge asset to thw AB's. Good news for them.

by **LondonTiger** Wed Dec 28, 2011 3:28 am

Great kicker, but the rest of his game was far from sublime.

Interestingly as I was scrolling down the topics they mentioned Sam smith of Quins on TV. Somehow that meant I thought NZ were appointing Sam Fox as a selector.

by aucklandlaurie Wed Dec 28, 2011 5:19 am

A lot of people, are quick to dismiss Foxey's all round ability as a first 5 eigth,and regard him only as a kicker.Many outside backs playing for University,Auckland and the ABs scored truckloads of trys with a ball that had come to them via Fox's hands.

by eirebilly Wed Dec 28, 2011 5:31 am

LondonTiger wrote:Great kicker, but the rest of his game was far from sublime.

Having watched him in his pomp, he was far more than just a kicker. Go back and watch some old videos of him, you will be suprised Very Happy

by **LondonTiger** Wed Dec 28, 2011 6:50 am

I watched him in his pomp - very good I thought but certainly not sublime. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder I guess.

by maestegmafia Wed Dec 28, 2011 7:02 am

eirebilly wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:Great kicker, but the rest of his game was far from sublime.

Having watched him in his pomp, he was far more than just a kicker. Go back and watch some old videos of him, you will be suprised

I agree Fox had the best passing game I have seen in a very long time. I think LT saw the stats for kicking and lack of tries.

He was a fantastic player and has been a good coach too apparently.

by aucklandlaurie Wed Dec 28, 2011 7:03 am

Guess it comes down to your definition of sublime.
But heres an impressive little story for you about Fox,there was a two year period in his prime when he played club(University) Provincial (Auckland) and International (New Zealand) and throughout that two year period he did not play a losing game of rugby.....

by maestegmafia Wed Dec 28, 2011 7:05 am

aucklandlaurie wrote: Guess it comes down to your definition of sublime.
But heres an impressive little story for you about Fox,there was a two year period in his prime when he played club(University) Provincial (Auckland) and International (New Zealand) and throughout that two year period he did not play a losing game of rugby.....

That might still be an un-equalled record.

by aucklandlaurie Wed Dec 28, 2011 7:19 am

Maestegmafia
Interesting point you raise, because it could have been equalled by four of his team mates at University being Messrs.Gary Whetton,Allan Whetton,John Drake and their hooker one Sean Fitzpatrick.had they not lost a Gallagher shield final to Ponsonby,it happened one week when Fox was not playing due to injury.

by maestegmafia Wed Dec 28, 2011 7:26 am

I didn't know they were all at the same university or at the same time.

Good stat though, you should forward that to the sports questioneer at trivial pursuit...

by aucklandlaurie Wed Dec 28, 2011 7:33 am

Maestag
There is only one University in Auckland,You actually dont have to be a University student to play rugby for the University rugby club. Meanwhile while all this was going on the Marist club less than a kilometre from University had even more Internationals including All Blacks playing for it.

by disneychilly Wed Dec 28, 2011 8:07 am

Fox and Larkham stand out as the best passing 10s I've seen. I remember the poor fella getting denied his first test try in 89 by Fitzpatrick putting his foot in play whilst throwing in. At least he got one the year after. Made his tackles, and whilst he rarely ran his option taking under pressure was superb. Ice in that man's veins and a great decision to have his input in selections.

by **LondonTiger** Wed Dec 28, 2011 8:11 am

maestegmafia wrote: I think LT saw the stats for kicking and lack of tries.

Nope, I based my impression on:

a) what I saw when I saw him play
b) things Peter Winterbottom said at a dinner for Headingley Rugby club many moons ago.

Now to be fair - there was not the wall to wall coverage of Rugby 30 years ago that there is now, but based on the televised appearances for ABs during WCs and NH tours, and a couple of live matches in the 91 WC - I felt that Fox kicked the ball too much when there was talent outside him (though at the time AB packs tended to dominate their oppos so not a bad tactic), sat back in the pocket a lot and posed little running threat.
He was however damned effective.

Now Mark Ella truly was sublime - but I would rather have Fox in my team.

by maestegmafia Wed Dec 28, 2011 10:25 am

aucklandlaurie wrote: Maestag
There is only one University in Auckland,You actually dont have to be a University student to play rugby for the University rugby club. Meanwhile while all this was going on the Marist club less than a kilometre from University had even more Internationals including All Blacks playing for it.

I knew they all played in Auckland but didnt know they were all university men.

I was in Auckland a great deal between 98 and 03 working with the IT involved for analysing statistics for the Kiwi Americas cup team, later the Oracle Americas cup team. I worked a great deal with another alumni Russell Coutts. He brought out Fitzpatrick and Kirwan for a yacht a few times. Kirwan is a very keen Yachtsman. I remember they mentioned that Gavin Hastings had played at university in Auckland though i doubt he could have alluded to Fox's afore mentioned record.

Wonderful city, was very special to be there with the Americas Cup.

by Taylorman Wed Dec 28, 2011 6:23 pm

aucklandlaurie wrote: Guess it comes down to your definition of sublime.
But heres an impressive little story for you about Fox,there was a two year period in his prime when he played club(University) Provincial (Auckland) and International (New Zealand) and throughout that two year period he did not play a losing game of rugby.....

Hi Laurie,
I think you and I were in the thick of that Auckland rugby scene at the time. I think the years were about 84 (when Aucks that year crushed all comers with ridiculous scores) and Gavin Hastings was at Fullback for Varsity (along with John Drake (RIP)). Grant Dickson was skip and yes...Graham Henry was coach. For me probably the most incredible year of club, provincial rugby Ive seen anywhere. Have you checked the Auks score that year? Unbelieveble reading.

Fox was primarily there for his ability to read the attacking plays. Yes he was a brilliant kicker and set new standards for his almost robotic routine but if he had not been as good a distributor he was he would never have played as long at the level he did so successfully. His ball in hand running and defensive skills were sub par for the level, and all his teams scored at rates probably not matched since, particularly with Auckland. Much of this was Fox's abilities to turn the advantage of the usually rampant packs into just as sublime backline attacks.

Good move to have him as a selector. He's a thinker and his commentary reflects his strong abilities to read the game when looking at whats in front of him. I'm not as convinced in his abilities to apply that knowledge to the team as work in progress and I think as selector, rather than as a specific role in the coaching arena, will allow him the freedom to best apply his skills- finding players that fit the roles or have that x factor that can be moulded.

Perfect role for Fox, though Ive never been a Hansen, Foster or Mclean fan- I think theyre a bit short in what is supposed to be the team most would want to coach. For now I'll take the pessimistic stance until I see the scores... Whistle

by Taylorman Wed Dec 28, 2011 6:45 pm

disneychilly wrote: I remember the poor fella getting denied his first test try in 89 by Fitzpatrick putting his foot in play whilst throwing in. At least he got one the year after. Made his tackles, and whilst he rarely ran his option taking under pressure was superb.

Luckily Foxy wasnt called on to tackle a lot. I remember a couple of times with Auckland he somehow found himself in space, out of reach of his support and actually got the rabbit in the headlights look and just stopped and looked around him, almost not knowing what to do, and then managing to knuckle his way out of it. Being a 10 at the time myself I studied Fox very closely but all said and done the guy had a brilliant knack of timing the pass, judging its length across the face of the defensive line and add in the superb all round kicking, a player for the time.

by eirebilly Wed Dec 28, 2011 7:18 pm

LondonTiger wrote:I watched him in his pomp - very good I thought but certainly not sublime. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder I guess.

That may be so but i stand by my original words and think that he was a sublime player. He did get isolated a few times but that was because he was quick to get behind the line. I have seen him ignite backlines beautifully and was one of the best supporting players i have seen. I rate him highly as a kicker but certainly as not his only attribute.

Mark Ella, as you say, was also an electric player and one i rate very highly but Fox was something else.

by kiakahaaotearoa Wed Dec 28, 2011 8:38 pm

Genetic scientists worked closely with Fox and we came up with an improved version: Merthens. Then they got carried away and thought they could turn him into a runner as well as a kicker. That's when they came up with Spencer. When that failed they refused to listen to reason and insisted they were able to achieve the impossible. They were right. That's when Carter came along. For all the rest there´s Mastercard.

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