Predictions for 2012 from Planet Rugby.

Six Nations champions: Wales

Aviva Premiership champions: Saracens

RaboDirect Pro12 champions: Leinster

Top 14 champions: Clermont

Heineken Cup champions: Toulouse

Super 15 champions: Reds

The *ugh* Rugby Championship champions: Australia


http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,16016_7407738,00.html

Big call for the down under picks and with Wales the selector seems to have gone with the younger though possibly more stable sides vs those who will be 'shedding' next year for the international honours...

Reds/ Oz finish would be unacceptable from a NZ POV and if that happens you may as well chuck in an Irish win or two as well.

For us just shows how big the shoes Hansen and co have to fill are.

Next year all will be gunning for the ABs as no.1 and WC holders, now with both an improving and stable Oz, a rejuvenated and fired up SA, as well as a confident Argie side after their Wcup efforts.

And a potential loss or two to the plucky Irish?...things could have a decidedly pear shaped look about us this year...

....Can't wait!!!

Have a read that the Rugby Championship games in Argentina are not to be played in Buenos Aires. But to be outside the capitol.

Reds will not win the Super 15. Crusaders will.

Australia will not win the Rugby Championship.

The reds and Australia had some decisions go their way last year, and their success was based on the Crusaders being rather unlucky against the Reds with some decisions and Australia won a Tri Nations whereby both SA and NZ sacraficed (stupidly) matches.

That doesn't mean to say the Reds or Australia didn't deserve to win their respective competitions.

The reds played beautiful rugby and Australia plaed their best team, but you do need luck and they both used it.

I recokon they have most of those wrong.

Leinster and Clermont good chance - the rest no

All guess work to be sure

geoff998rugby wrote:I recokon they have most of those wrong.

Leinster and Clermont good chance - the rest no

All guess work to be sure

Think I agree with you Geoff though I notice that Wales aren' down for a GS

I love the comment from some muppet who says I hope Argentina beats some of the boring SH teams. ¿Que coño dices? What the ... are you talking about?

I can see where the reaction from SANZAR is coming from and why Argentina want to avoid football mad Buenos Aires. It´s already a long way to travel to Argentina. The last leg of the journey to Mendoza for example is often the killer part of the journey. You´re so close and yet so far. La Plata is where the ABs will play but it´s still some way out of Buenos Aires, which means more travel time. That works both ways but this really is a punishing travel schedule.

I think most of these predictions won´t be the ones that end up being the actual victors but being predictions you really can´t blame them for that.

The 4N will be an interesting one with a previous unknown dynamic in the equation. People are writing off Argentina but particularly at home they will be very difficult to beat. That enters a shock loss into the equation that previously was not there. Let´s face it, they have nothing to lose.

As for the 6N, if Wales lose against Ireland, then they´re finished. Win that and then they can build momentum for England and France with a relatively easy game of Scotland and Italy at home in between. Which France will PSA bring out and will England´s growing unavailable or injured list hamper an easy draw for them?

Six Nations champions: England

Aviva Premiership champions: Harlequins

RaboDirect Pro12 champions: Ospreys

Top 14 champions: Clermont

Heineken Cup champions: Leinster

Super 15 champions: Reds

The *ugh* Rugby Championship champions: NZ

Wow roddersm some pretty poor predictions there in my opinion.

More like:

6 nations champions:France

Aviva Premiership champions:Saracens

Rabo:Leinster

Top 14 champions:Toulouse

Heineken Cup Champions: Leinster (though I think Sarries are a dark horse)

Super 15:Reds

Quad nations:NZ

He got the one that matters spot on. Leave him alone.

How many predicted a France NZ final before the RWC? I certainly didn't. Never understand how someone can say poor predictions because really we´re all pretty poor at predicting otherwise we'd be filthy rich from sports betting.

beshocked, anybody would think you're a Sarries supporter with those predictions!

I definitely agree that you're favourites to win the Jeff, but I don't feel you possess the attacking threat (yet) to win the HC.

For what it's worth I reckon:

6N: France (not a slam)
Jeff: Sarries
Rabo: Leinster
T14: Clermont
HC: Toulouse
S15: Crusaders
4N: NZ

HongKongCherry wrote:beshocked, anybody would think you're a Sarries supporter with those predictions!

I definitely agree that you're favourites to win the Jeff, but I don't feel you possess the attacking threat (yet) to win the HC.

For what it's worth I reckon:

6N: France (not a slam)
Jeff: Sarries
Rabo: Leinster
T14: Clermont
HC: Toulouse
S15: Crusaders
4N: NZ

I'd also back France to squeak the 6N, but the next three could be close. Don't think Wales will do as well as some people would like to think though.

Sarries are probably the 'best' team in the AP at the moment. Will they win the league? Don't think so, Quins or maybe even Tigers.

The rest I think are right.

Hongkongcherry any reason you think Toulouse will win it?

The way I see it

The HC will goes as follows:

1.Leinster
2.Munster
3.Saracens
4.Toulouse
5.Clermont
6.Cardiff
7.Edinburgh
8.Quins

Leinster vs Quins - Leinster
Munster vs Edinburgh - Munster
Saracens vs Cardiff - Saracens
Toulouse vs Clermont - Toulouse

Leinster vs Toulouse - Leinster
Munster vs Saracens - Sarries

Saracens vs Leinster (at Twickenham) - ??

Time for Trumpton any reason why you don't think Saracens will win? Of course there is your obvious dislike but any logical reason?

Hmmm, some quite difficult choices to make here.

6N: France
Jeff: Quins
Rabo: Leinster
T14: Clermont
HC: Toulouse
S15: Crusaders
Quad: Australia

The 6 Nations is really tough to call, and I'm going for France really because the fixtures work nicely for them as they start with two at home plus play England in Paris. They finish in Cardiff though, which will be extremely tough.

The Jeff is tricky as both Saints and Leicester's positions are diluted by the number of missing players they've had. Sarries are a great team and Quins and probably the least affected by internationals so will continue to be strong.

Rabo is easy.

HC is another tough one, both Irish teams look as strong as ever and no-one will win easily against Sarries in that competition. Toulouse have the pedigree though so I'll take the safe bet.

The 4N is hard to call but I just think the Aussies are becoming a very exciting side with a lot of talented young players so they are my pick.

For me:
6N: France
Jeff: Sarries
Rabo: Leinster
T14: Clermont
HC: Toulouse
S15: Crusaders
Quad: NZ (on bonus points or points difference from SA) - I think SA will be a lot stronger this year, assuming they get rid of PDV. Argentina to win one match, vs the Wallabies.

funnyExiledScot wrote:

The Jeff is tricky as both Saints and Leicester's positions are diluted by the number of missing players they've had. Sarries are a great team and Quins and probably the least affected by internationals so will continue to be strong.

Still, I would be suprised if Saints or Tigers did win, home advanatage is a big plus in the play-offs - although either could win. Quins are playing better, more creative rugby than Saffacens and will be less affected by international call ups. I'd back them to lift the title.

6N: France
Jeff: Quins
Rabo: Ospreys
HC: Leinster

Time For Trumpton wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:

The Jeff is tricky as both Saints and Leicester's positions are diluted by the number of missing players they've had. Sarries are a great team and Quins and probably the least affected by internationals so will continue to be strong.

Still, I would be suprised if Saints or Tigers did win, home advanatage is a big plus in the play-offs - although either could win. Quins are playing better, more creative rugby than Saffacens and will be less affected by international call ups. I'd back them to lift the title.

Quins can't actually beat Saracens. Their supposed greater,creative rugby has failed them. Having lost to them 5 times in a row in the AP it is a big mental block for them. Almost as much as against Leicester.

Quins have only beaten Leicester twice in 27 AP matches. One of them being against a massively under strength Leicester.

Let's just say that the odds are stacked against Quins. Saracens,Saints and Leicester have stronger packs than Quins and that's a huge factor.

Quins are perfectly capable of beating Saracens, they just havent made a habit of it, their 'supposed' greater, creative rugby has done them very nicely in the league so far thankyou.

If you're clutching at Quins' past form and mental blocks, then its a tacit admission that you fear them. I can't help it if you bark like a junkyard dog everytime somebody dares question Saffacens ability, but believe it, Quins could quite easily be the new champions.

It's a good point you make Beshocked, whilst Quins will likely top the table, winning playoffs is a different ball game, as Glaws fans will tell us all.

In reality I see it as too close to call. It's a 4-way contest for me with any of the sides capable of doing it on the day. Injuries to key players could also be a key factor. Say Barritt were to become heavily involved with England, that could have a telling impact on Sarries come the end of the season, as exposure to England's elite coaching set-up usually ruins players.

Time for Trumpton their more creative rugby failed against Saracens. Quins have not yet taken on a full strength Saints or Leicester side. Saying Quins can beat Saracens is entirely different to actually doing it. If Quins pull it off then I will admit I was wrong.


Seriously why would I fear a side we repeatedly beat? I am more wary of Gloucester than Quins. Saracens have the measure of certain sides and one of them is Quins.


Why should I think Quins can win if they cannot beat the current English champions? It is likely Quins will have to beat two of Saints/Leicester/Saracens. I can't see them doing it.

It will likely be yet another Saracens-Leicester final which could go either way again.

Neither do I think Sarries will walk to the title. I think they'll probably battle through two tough games again.


FES true.

beshocked wrote:Hongkongcherry any reason you think Toulouse will win it?

Yep! Whilst you can't fault Quins performance against them, there is no doubt Toulouse haven't hit top gear yet, however, they are still likely to be one of the top seeds going through. I feel they will time the run correctly and they just have too much quality in their squad.

beshocked wrote:Time for Trumpton their more creative rugby failed against Saracens. Quins have not yet taken on a full strength Saints or Leicester side. You are a broken record with your anti Saracens rubbish. At least answer with logic. Saying Quins can beat Saracens is entirely different to actually doing it. If Quins pull it off then I will admit I was wrong.

And you are a broken record with your constant one eyed bickering every time somebody dares question Saffacens' ability. This is sport and logic very often has little to do with the outcome. Having said that, my logic would appear sound enough given the current league standings, just because Saffacens seem to be Quins' bogey side, it means little in the context of a play-off, where others have rightly pointed out (but funnily enough not challenged by you for some reason) that anything can and does happen.

All I said is that Quins could do it, it is an opinion, I am entitled to it (and funnily enough, others share my opinion, but havent been challenged by you). There is more logic in my opinion than in your blinkered faith.

Trumpton,

Sarries won two of their last three matches through opportunist tries, a charge down, and interception, the other game they drew.

They don't look like the can't create good play. They just refuse to do so.

Hongkongcherry do you think Toulouse can get past Leinster? Leinster looked nailed on for top seed and that would mean a home semi too surely? You are of course entitled to your opinion. I just feel Toulouse would likely to have to face too many away games.


Maestegmafia it's hardly just Saracens though is it? Also the first 50 minutes of the Sarries vs O's game shows we can attack (we scored 3 tries after all). You might say they came from O errors but don't virtually all tries?

It's difficult to score vs a strong defence - in the two Ospreys games - Ospreys only scored when Saracens were down to 14 men or from a very flukey ricochet. Essentially you take your chances when you can. Also I bet anyone could rubbish the merits of most tries.

Every team has a certain way of play. No one criticises Exeter for example who play relatively similar to Saracens.

I find it highly amusing that Quins are meant to be hugely creative and amazing yet struggled to score both against Exeter and Saracens.

Quins next test is Saints.

My predos:

6N: France
Jeff: Quins
Rabo: Leinster
T14: Clermont
HC: Leinster
S15: Crusaders
Quad: NZ

For what its worth

beshocked wrote:

I find it highly amusing that Quins are meant to be hugely creative and amazing yet struggled to score both against Exeter and Saracens.

Individual matches are irrelevant.

Quins are 7 points clear of Saffacens having scored 34 tries to Saffacens 19. Ipso Facto, Quins are a creative side (you are the one who labelled them 'amazing' for some strange reason). Every commentator and pundit i've heard has commented on their creativity, while conversely, labelling Saffacens 'predictable' and 'one dimensional'.

You want logic? Its staring you in the face.

I'm surprised that so few are tipping England for the 6N?

I think they will be coming in under the radar and with a point to prove after the RWC. They are the reigning champions too.

Wales are looking good but have shown in the past that they don't deal well with high expectation and aren't good at following up success. I think they may emplode a bit IF they lose in Dublin but still expect them in the top 3.

France I am not convinced with. They reached the RWC final playing very poorly and their teams haven't been convincing in the HEC. I still expect it to be between them and England but fancy England to get revenge for the RWC QF.

Ireland are looking at between 3 and 5th I think depending on whether ot not they can beat Wales.

Time for Trumpton will you please learn to spell properly? The name of the team is Saracens.

Quins are 7 points clear true. Your point is? Yes every man and his dog knows that Quins score more tries than Saracens most sides do. It's winning the matches which is of more substance though. Quins have won a lot of matches but against their likely top 4 contenders they so far have lost to Saracens and beaten two highly depleted Leicester and Saints sides.

I am personally not convinced Quins will win two playoff matches.

If there was still the league system Quins are of course in the driving seat. The playoff system favours the other top 4 contenders more.

We'll have to agree to disagree.

Though just one more question - on what basis do you think Quins will beat two of Leicester,Saracens or Saints in a row? The anything can happen argument only goes so far.

beshocked wrote:Time for Trumpton will you please learn to spell properly?

The name of the team is Saracens.

Quins are 7 points clear true. Your point is? Yes every man and his dog knows that Quins score more tries than Saracens most sides do. It's winning the matches which is of more substance though. Quins have won a lot of matches but against their likely top 4 contenders they so far have lost to Saracens and beaten two highly depleted Leicester and Saints sides.

I am personally not convinced Quins will win two playoff matches.

If there was still the league system Quins are of course in the driving seat. The playoff system favours the other top 4 contenders more.

We'll have to agree to disagree.

Though just one more question - on what basis do you think Quins will beat two of Leicester,Saracens or Saints in a row? The anything can happen argument only goes so far.

I'm not sure I need to prove a point any further since i have comprehensively done so. You are the one questioning Quins' creativity, when they're demonstrably creative, almost to the tune of 100% over Saffacens. Winning is winning, Quins have demonstrably done so, hence their 7 point advantage over Saffacens. What more proof do you want?

Do even a full strength Tigers and Saints side look like title contenders? Not from where i've been sitting, on the edge of my bloody seat week in week out. You're using conjecture based on past form and reputation, things are different this season. My argument may only go so far, but then, so does yours, as any team can beat any other on a given day, 'your' logic seems to have failed to take this into account.

Kiwireddevil would you please tell time for trumpton that he needs to learn to spell? It's a fair point is it not?

I question Quins' creativity against a strong defence like Saracens'. Do Quins score more tries against Saracens? No.

Comparing purely head to heads Saracens have beaten Quins 5 times in a row in the AP. Leicester have won 24 out 27 matches vs Quins in the AP. In the playoffs there is a very high chance Quins will have to play either one or both.

My point is it matters not whether Quins are 7 points ahead of Saracens or 20 points ahead. It's the playoffs that matter.

Quins are currently first,Saracens are currently 2nd - both are in the top 2 spots.

Saints and Tigers are 3rd and 4th in the table. Of course they are title contenders.

Past form and reputation are very important. You don't seem to be acknowledging that. If they had no importance why would you keep seeing the same teams in the mix in the top competitions.

Strong records against certain sides are underestimated.

From a pure form point of view Quins have of course been the most in form team (they are top) from the start of the world cup. Since the world cup it has been Leicester and Saints in the best form. Aren't Leicester unbeaten in the AP since the world cup?

beshocked wrote:Kiwireddevil would you please tell time for trumpton that he needs to learn to spell? It's a fair point is it not?

Oh for God's sake, man up will you?

You make some fair points, some of which I agree with and some of which I don't, but attempting a little more objectivity wouldn't kill you.

In regards to objectivity I could say the same but yes you are right.

I would hardly expect you to agree with everything I say but at least we get some agreement.

Quick summary - Quins have been in good form, poor head to heads vs Leicester and Saracens.

Saracens and Leicester's playoff experience I think will be too much for Quins to handle in my opinion.

Aw, now that wasn´t hard, was it?

England´s growing unavailable list just got bigger with Flood out. It´d be a miracle with so many new players to work cohesively as a team under a caretaker caoch. Sometimes, when injuries start decimating your team, it can cause a siege mentality and the remaining walking band together to make a tighter unit. But they´ll need all that unity with a 10, 12, 13 unfamiliar or uncomfortable at test level. Not to mention a new look back row, a new look second row and a new look front row.

It really is rotten luck.

I can see the French picking up the 6 nations crown.

I believe the Welsh will probably blame fatigue from their epic world cup run.

Kiaka it could work though because this is a fresh start. No Martin Johnson.

The new players will have a point to prove. England just need to be positive and play positive.

6N: France
Jeff: Quins
Rabo: Leinster
T14: Toulouse
HC: Leinster
S15: Crusaders
Quad: NZ

It´s possible that it could work and they do indeed need to be positive and play positive. With so many players unavailable though and so many new combinations, that's a very tough ask. Plus, if they get off to a bad start at Murrayfield, which has happened all too often before, then that positive team environment will be shot. Not the best first up game you could wish for.

People have been using the argument that Gatland acheived a GS with Wales just a few weeks after taking over, however, the difference is that the Welsh team were pretty much a homogenous Ospreys outfit. The English players liable to be selected wont have that luxury and some will be being capped for the senior team for the first time (in all likelihood).

It is difficult to see past a French 6N, purely because I don't think Wales are the real deal (but they are certainly in some kind of form), England I think will struggle with continuity and Ireland seem to have floundered under kidney of late.

Time For Trumpton wrote:People have been using the argument that Gatland acheived a GS with Wales just a few weeks after taking over, however, the difference is that the Welsh team were pretty much a homogenous Ospreys outfit. The English players liable to be selected wont have that luxury and some will be being capped for the senior team for the first time (in all likelihood).

It is difficult to see past a French 6N, purely because I don't think Wales are the real deal (but they are certainly in some kind of form), England I think will struggle with continuity and Ireland seem to have floundered under kidney of late.

Hi Hugh, Pugh, Barney, McGrew, Cuthbert, Dibble and Grub,

The Grandslam previous in 05 was not an Ospreys-centric team. In 08 the Ospreys at the time had acquired or coached the best players in Wales so it was likely that they would be the make up of the Welsh team. 13 was a surprise to all of us but they were a good side.

Linebreaker once (again) I have to go for the Blues in the Super xv. Missed by one match against the Reds last year for the final this year have some serious talent in every department...:

FORWARDS:

Anthony Boric
Daniel Braid
Luke Braid
Charlie Faumuina
Jerome Kaino
Chris Lowrey
Tevita Mailau
Pauliasi Manu
Tom McCartney
Keven Mealamu
Brad Mika
Liaki Moli
Filo Paulo
Peter Saili
Angus Ta'avao
Ali Williams
Tony Woodcock

BACKS:

Gareth Anscombe
Michael Hobbs
Alby Mathewson
George Moala
Lachie Munro
Ma'a Nonu
David Raikuna
Rene Ranger
Benson Stanley
Sherwin Stowers
Isaia Toeava
Piri Weepu
Rudi Wulf

With 12 ABs or so I think theyve finally got the mix right and Nonu and Weepu caps off definite champ looking side.
Someones gotta knock those Reds off and I cant see the Crusaders having a better team than last year. Perhaps without the travel factor of a shaky last year they might have more in the tank this year.

yeah but no great leader - kev's okay but I think he's going to show his age this year.

now look at the Horricanes - Conrad the captain -What potential!

Cant see past Leinster for the HC, notice a lot of people are saying Toulouse, probably because many think they are the only team capable of stopping Leinster.

France for the 6n

Clermont for top14

Harlequins for the aviva

Dont see anywhere near enough SH rugby to predict the Super 15 or quad nations.

I admire your faith Taylorman. But when Canterbury rugby is strong, NZ rugby is strong. Super final and a World Cup. Coincidence, I think not!

Sorry mate, couldn´t resist!

Artful_Dodger wrote:Cant see past Leinster for the HC, notice a lot of people are saying Toulouse, probably because many think they are the only team capable of stopping Leinster.

France for the 6n

Clermont for top14

Harlequins for the aviva

Dont see anywhere near enough SH rugby to predict the Super 15 or quad nations.

Look stop predicting a Quins win to the AP, you know how it upsets Beshocked.

He is the last great white hope it seems...

The checkers for me too - just have that feeling this is going to be their year.

Quins 7 point lead mid way through the season is a decent score.

A number look good in the HEC but Leinster are the stand out team that have laid the biggest marker.

The Super 15 favourites changed a great deal last year but you have to favour one of the top clubs like Reds or Crusaders at the moment looking at their squads.

France and Wales are the current form teams going into the Six Nations. Ireland will be tough dogged and I dont think will have changed drastically from their previous team, Scotland and England could be a good bet if they select decent squads and have their coaching right.

The Rugby Championship will be a decent tussle with a new All Blacks and SA coach, and Aussies a great team.

maestegmafia wrote:
France and Wales are the current form teams going into the Six Nations

Wales have lost their last three internationals. That's not good form by anyone's standards. France will be up there as usual though.

And England have only lost 1 from the last 5 so they must be in a better position than Wales come the 6 Nations.

We should expect them to be 2nd at least and not expect them to go into another meltdown.

Wales on the other hand will be Poopieing themselves based on their huge losing streak