Flood could now also be out for 6 weeks!

http://www1.skysports.com/rugby-union/news/12504/7411609/Fitness-fears-for-Flood

Toby could miss the first few 6N games - I guess that opens the door for Charlie Hodgeson to start and for Farrell and Freddie Burns to come into the setup.

It does look like existing EPS members are dropping like flies - Flood, Tuilagi, Deacon, possibly Lawes, Mears, Wigglesworth (granted the last 2 may not have been selected anyway).

I say it again, England just cant take a trick right now. When it rains it pours.

Scotland must be looking at this and rubbing their hands with glee at the though of this England team being desimated by injuries and the bannings of players.

Woah Flood missing really would be a biggy. Hes been looking sharp recently.
Hodgosn would be the obvious replacement in the starting shirt but hardly and awe inspiring choice.

Peter Seabiscuit wheeler Hodgson is not bad if Barritt is at inside centre. Plus Hodgson's defence has improved. He has never cut it at international level but if someone took the kicking duties he could focus on his attacking game.

Would a backline of the following be so bad:

9.Youngs
10.Hodgson
11.Sharples
12.Barritt
13.Trinder/Farrell
14.Ashton
15.Foden

It does seem that way eirebilly!
I think this 6N is rapidly turning into a development competition as far as England are concerned. We could be seeing a Saxons side turning out for full internationals!

propdavid, both Ireland and Wales have benefitted recently from forced changes, due to injuries in the side, and have unearthed some future talent. Maybe this is a good thing for England as it may force them to pick some young players that will step up. Ever the optimist me

prop,

Good to see getting the excuses and under valued competition cos England not strong posts in early .

As Billy says though some injuries are blessings in disguise, Hodgson would seem obvious choice but wouldn't fill teams with fear where as the un-expected of what Farrell could bring might just be the spur.

Billy,

Yep thats fine that hes being forced to pick some younger players and make a fesh start but Trinders older than Tuillagi and Hodgsons older than Flood.....
The drop outs are affecting the players who should be the core of the side for the next few years, Lancaster was shedding the dead wood anyway.

It will be interesting to see if he does go with Hodgson though. Ive heard it mentioned that he was looking to shed everyone over 30, although that would seem excessive. In this case I really think it woudl be a step to far to chuck in Farrel or Burns as starting 10 with no expereinced cover or experienced players around them.

Peter,

You're right doing it that way would be wrong especially as Tindall is gone and the No9s are still relatively young.

There is a lot on here that say Gatland should bin S Jones and Hook but there's no way he will go into the 6 Nations with Priestland, Biggar and Tovey as his No10 options, you have to have the balance between youth and experience.

Bedford - not at all. I dont believe that this 6N will be a bad one at all. Thats why I stipulated (as far as England are concerned)
As but you and eire have said, this will let us test the youngsters be tested.

What I should have said was, with so many forced changes and a new set up, the expectation/pressure on the team should be lesser. It will hopefully give the team the chance to just go out and play.

For myself, I am more excited about this 6N for a long time - im looking for that unpredictability and creative play.

Peter - I saw a clip on the rfu website with Lancaster. He was asked if he was culling the over 30's and he said definately not. He still wants some experience in the mix with the younger players.

I know that some players are older than others so maybe a better choice of words would have been 'forced into picking less experienced players'.

England do have some exciting talent so this could be a very good thing for them, it could also me an unmittigted disaster. Time will tell i guess.

I would be suprised if Hodgson was picked to be honest, a very good club player but he has looked out of his depth at international level more than he has looked confident.

When injuries hit it does seem to be all at once and one particular position, for us it seems 2nd row is our injury jinx at the moment.

pity about flood. one of my favourite england players. could be a big blow.

that guy, miler, myller, mylaargh, the guy who does the wierd eye thing when he takes a shot at goal. he should be considered.

it would be a real shame if england have a pig of a tournament. it would be bad for the 6N. but someone has to come 4th and wales have been there for a few years now. englands turn maybe.

Dogtooth - thats Myler, problem is that he is very much playing second fiddle to Ryan Lamb at club.

Ha, does anyone know how Geraghty is getting on in France?

Is it time to give Ryan Lamb a shot? He's looked excellent this season.

propdavid_london wrote:Dogtooth - thats Myler, problem is that he is very much playing second fiddle to Ryan Lamb at club.

Ha, does anyone know how Geraghty is getting on in France?

thanks. after i posted i thought i might have made the name up.

who are englands flyhalfs now. could johnny be called back? who would kick if hodgson was selected?

just because mylAaargh is second fidle at club doesnt mean he isnt as good, or better than the guy ahead of him. hook was always behind bigArrrgh, and biggar is evidently poo.

The old Lamb chop express! He has certainly done his time in the Saxons.

At the same time as thinking that this is a disastrous injury, I can't help but think it's a blessing in disguise, almost forcing us to play youthful talent at the 10 position...Farrell and Burns would obviously be the candidates for the backups, with Hodgson starting, but maybe Clegg would also be considered?

I know Clegg had a shocker against Chiefs in terms of kicking, but he's fast, with good vision and is a lump of a 10 too.

problem with lamb is that he isnt a big fella. matthew morgan of the ospreys is a good (young) fh but his size is a problem.

13.Trinder/Farrell

Farrell is not a 13. He plays there for Sarries because Powell isn't up to speed and they want to use his boot. He's not quick enough for an international 13. Play him at 12 or leave him in the Saxons or at Sarries.

I can't help but think it's a blessing in disguise, almost forcing us to play youthful talent at the 10 position...Farrell and Burns would obviously be the candidates for the backups, with Hodgson starting, but maybe Clegg would also be considered?

So losing 25/26 year Flood is a good thing because it forces us to play the 'younger' 30/31 year old Charlie Hodgson? With the amount of young talent likely to be in the centres Barritt (25 and no caps) and Trinder (22 and 1 cap?) a bit of experience would probably be a good thing.

Do England fans really feel that Hodgson will be selected?

I dont think Lamb or Myler would be on the radar would they?

Mylers never really done it and Lambs always been massively inconsitent and a known revolving door. I suspect hed get mullered at interntaional level.

Lancaster did play Myler last winter, but he didnt do the job massively well and has lost the startuing shirt for Saints.

For the Chruchill cup he used Clegg with Goode ( not a serious option for England now) on the bench. So maybe he would have Clegg ahead of Burns ( or possibly both and no Hodgson).

Iterestingly looking at his squads he never uses a genuine reserve 10 on the bench, prefering to have full cover for the centers and back 3. If he takes that to the full inmternationals that makes Farrel a dead cert for the matchday squad.

Theres options, but no clewar course. Flood is a big loss, he looked to have found his side step and pass again for Tigers and was creating great opportunities. Hes well experienced for his age and a proven performer, exactly the sort of guy England needed to step up and guide the new kids through a difficult transition. Hes been through a similar mess himself in the past and come out a better player.

formerly known as Sam wrote:So losing 25/26 year Flood is a good thing because it forces us to play the 'younger' 30/31 year old Charlie Hodgson? With the amount of young talent likely to be in the centres Barritt (25 and no caps) and Trinder (22 and 1 cap?) a bit of experience would probably be a good thing.

I wouldn't play Hodgson, but it seems that the general consensus is that he will play there now that Flood is out. Believe me, Flood would be my starting 10 without a shadow of a doubt- he was finding some great form, and really playing out of his skin. My comments were working on the assumption of Hodgson starting, merely because he appears to be the likely backup starter. All I meant was that in the 6N squad it is likely there would be 2 or 3 fly halves (or someone that can cover there), and now that Flood is potentially out, this opens an extra space for a younger fly half to gain some experience, i.e. Burns or Farrell, etc. In an ideal world, Flood and others wouldn't be injured, and two younger fly halves would be promoted to gain the valuable exposure to the next level.

Hodgson is the only option now Flood is out.

Defensively he has improved. I would worry about him place kicking as he has never really excelled at that for England.

Hodgson offers experience as Sam says. Also he would offer familiarity if Barritt starts at inside centre.

beshocked wrote:Hodgson is the only option now Flood is out.

Defensively he has improved. I would worry about him place kicking as he has never really excelled at that for England.

Hodgson offers experience as Sam says. Also he would offer familiarity if Barritt starts at inside centre.

And if Farrels at 13 you dont have to worry about his goal kicking.
From memory he wasnt too shabby for England, just had a couple of horror shows and lived in the shadow of the Wilkinson myth.

Flood is only rumoured to miss the start of the 6N. Same for Lawes and Tuilagi. I have no doubt that all 3 will still be named in Lancasters EPS. The fact that they are currently injured gives him the flexability to shift players to and from the Saxons squad with much more freedom.

propdavid_london wrote:Flood is only rumoured to miss the start of the 6N. Same for Lawes and Tuilagi. I have no doubt that all 3 will still be named in Lancasters EPS.

Let's hope you're right

Maybe its just me but as i said earlier, whenever i saw Hodgson play at international level he looked more out of his depth than he did comfortable. He did have the odd good game but is he really what England need?

Why not use this chance to try out a younger player with more potential to produce something for England in years to come. With all these injuries there is less and less expectation on England so why not use that?

Hodgson would be a massive mistake in my view.

Dare I say it, the floodgates are opening on England´s players who are unavailable. Flood is a big loss. Any chance Wilkinson will come out of retirement? You have the possibility of 3 relatively new players at 10, 12, 13 and another on the wing.

You´ll have a new look back row, a new look second row and a rejigged front row. How much more bad luck can England get?

You´d have to think this will put a dampener on their 6N chances. You can't bring in so many new players and expect them to work cohesively at test level.

eirebilly who would you play? The difficulty is sticking with someone.

Should for example Burns be picked?

Remember also Stuart lancaster and his team are meant to be interim management that will play a factor too.

Peter seabiscuit wheeler I have not really been convinced by Farrell as a 13. He is an excellent defender and kicker but needs more attacking notches to his bow. It's all about balance. A centre partnership of Barritt and Farrell wouldn't work for England in my opinion.

Farrell is simply a stop gap at 13 for Sarries and to give Hodgson less pressure.

Hodgson should only play if Barritt starts at inside centre.

beshocked wrote:
eirebilly who would you play? The difficulty is sticking with someone.

Should for example Burns be picked?

I am not being rude but nobody can make me believe that there are'nt any younger (than Hodgson) players that can come in and be given a chance to prove themselves? England need to bleed players, not stop gap fill because Flood gets injured.
What about Myler or Lamb? They may relish the chance.

Out of Myler and Lamb, I think i'd rather see Lamb given the chance, since there's a reason why he's keeping Myler on the bench. Only thing that concerns me is that I think he may get dominated at international level.

The Banahan for Eng No10 campaigne starts here

eirebilly to be honest I don't mind. Whatever Lancaster and his team thinks is best. It's their necks on the line.

Burns,Lamb or Hodgson - I wouldn't mind either of them but please no Myler!

Hodgson could help bed in either Farrell or Barritt. There will be a lot of changes in the backline so maybe an experienced player should be in there.

My point is, players like Lamb and Myler have to be given a chance at some stage. What happens if you put all your eggs in one basket ad hope that Flood is always fit? If he gets injured, is Hodgson always going to be there?
Blood some younger talent and see how they go.

As an Irishman, i dreaded for a period of 6 years that ROG would'nt get injured as Ireland had not made any progression in finding a good cover for him. England have that chance now so should take it i feel.

It's all very well blooding new players, but with some new faces likely to be on the scene in the centres anyway I'd like an experienced 10 like Hodgson in the side against Scotland. He's on fine form and, no offence to Scotland, but they're hardly going to give him a torrid time like New Zealand did all those years ago!

I see what you are saying about the experience thing but is Hodgson really the best to do that? A great club player but not international player. Scotland will target him big time and when (if) his head drops he will hardly be the inspiration and experienced 10 that his new backs will need.

Eirebilly the difficulty is now M.Tuilagi is injured, the inside centre spot needs to be filled, 1 wing spot needs to be filled and now no 10.

That's a new 10,11,12 and 13 needed. Not going to help with continuity.

At least if you had Hodgson at 10 and Barritt/Farrell at 12 you would have some players who have worked together.

Burns or Lamb wouldn't have the familiarity of working with any of the others.

It's a tough decision.

What I would probably do is have Hodgson and Burns in the squad as fly halves. Barritt and Farrell as the inside centres.

What about Myler or Lamb? They may relish the chance..

I'm sure Myler would relish the chance but he'd probably drop it, knock it on and then fall over it.

Lamb just isn't a great defender. Having a much improved season now at Saints though.

What I would probably do is have Hodgson and Burns in the squad as fly halves. Barritt and Farrell as the inside centres.

+1. Though as said above Flood should be available for some of the tournament.

Eirebilly the difficulty is now M.Tuilagi is injured

Should only miss the Scotland game. Should be in line to return against Wales. Even so Manu isn't very experienced so a guiding hand would be a good idea.

Internationals are not the best games for a player to make his return after a long injury. Players are normally eased in at club/region level first to get them up to match fitness.

So who actually now is defo out...and who is doubtful...and who is dropped?

True but 6 weeks isnt that long an injury and he probably needed the rest anyway. Ideally you would ease him back him, Floods return direct to the team may depend on how things go for whoever is covering for him.

I don't think you can use Hodgson's 'experience' to assist the newer, younger players.

Unfortunately, Hodgson's previous times with England haven't gone too well.
Therefore if he was picked, I think that he'd need to focus solely on his own game, rather than being able to use his 'experience' to help the younger players.

Afterall, we all want someone to take the kicking duties away from him so there is less pressure for him.
Adding the pressure of having to act as the experienced one in the backline probably wouldn't be a great idea.

Wasps I do agree with you. My point is that playing either Barritt or Farrell in the backline with Hodgson would make things much easier for all involved.

Familiarity is important.

If Scotland can pick Parks for his experience then England can pick Hodgson.

Im starting to with Wales had England up first again :/

No Care, No Flood, No Tuilangi, No Tindall/Hape, No Cueto

That makes a VERY inexperienced backline

I would love to see Phillips, Preistland, Roberts and JD2 to go up against it.

One more injury at fly half and old Danny cipriani wouldn't be far off a phone call !

wales606 wrote:Im starting to with Wales had England up first again :/

No Care, No Flood, No Tuilangi, No Tindall/Hape, No Cueto

That makes a VERY inexperienced backline

I would love to see Phillips, Preistland, Roberts and JD2 to go up against it.

Quite.

I suspect that Banahan will keep his place in the squad for this very reason.

wales606 wrote:Im starting to with Wales had England up first again :/

No Care, No Flood, No Tuilangi, No Tindall/Hape, No Cueto

That makes a VERY inexperienced backline

I would love to see Phillips, Preistland, Roberts and JD2 to go up against it.

Maybe....but ability wise it "could" be far stronger than many of the backlines we have fielded over the past few years....

Is it definite that Tuilagi will miss the start of the SN?

I was wondering if an inexperienced backline could be compensated with a club combo like:

10. Charlie Hodgson
12. Brad Barritt
13. Owen Farrell

It works well for Sarries and could be a good introduction to international rugby for Barritt and Farrell.