Is boxing dying??

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There have been many people saying that boxing is in a bad state and that maybe the sport is dying there is alot of problems with it at the moment and many people are turning to other sports like UFC. Many people I know think UFC is much better now because of all the problems in boxing like Pacquiao not fighting Mayweather for example. Do people think boxing is dying and on its way out and that in the future UFC will take over?? Lets look at the problems with boxing?



1) to many belts

2) to many weights

3) ppv

4) robberies and hometown decisions

5) the best dont fight the best enough

6) protected champs

7) ducking

8) corrupt promoters

9) boring heavyweight division

10) UFC taking over



These are reasons that make people turn away from boxing. Lets be honest boxing is not as popular as it once was too much ppv it is not on tv enough and sports like UFC offer more. Maybe boxing will not die tomo but in 20 years will it still be around or will people still be interested?? Lets think back to the days when quality fighters like Lewis, Tyson, Holyfield, Hagler and Leonard were around boxing was alot bigger then now we have boring fighters like Klitchkos who are good fighters but are killing boxing and have been around far too long. Champs like hopkins and Ward are also very boring fighters hopkins should have retired years ago after his shameful cheating against Calzaghe and he will be knocked ut badly like Jones was if he continues. What do people think is boxing dying out because of all the problems and does it need to change to survive and get people interested??

Great post Boxthis. But bad scoring also happens in MMA. Rampage v Forrest for one which cost Rampage the LHW title. But that is an aside as it is rare.

The beauty is UFC is that they deliver the fights the fans want. The best fight each other with regularity. Matchmaking is easy and the issue of money is not so all powering as it is in boxing.

MMA is one company dominating an entire industry. Its got nothing to do with boxing the same way wrestling has nothing to do with boxing. Its a different form of entertainment. Its in a cage and basically human cockfighting. Elbowing, kneeing, they get into leg locks and start rolling around on the ground etc. If boxing ever advertised on a major channel with ‘blood splats’ like they have done on some UFC show, the state athletic commissions would jump all over it. As I said...its a different form of entertainment. MMA fans dont understand boxing is a science and that defence is as important as offense and they would never understand fighters like Willie Pep, Pernell Whitaker, Floyd Mayweather etc. If boxing was dying (which I dont think it is) then it did to itself. Nothing to do with MMA though

Steffan wrote:MMA is one company dominating an entire industry. Its got nothing to do with boxing the same way wrestling has nothing to do with boxing. Its a different form of entertainment. Its in a cage and basically human cockfighting. Elbowing, kneeing, they get into leg locks and start rolling around on the ground etc. If boxing ever advertised on a major channel with ‘blood splats’ like they have done on some UFC show, the state athletic commissions would jump all over it. As I said...its a different form of entertainment. MMA fans dont understand boxing is a science and that defence is as important as offense and they would never understand fighters like Willie Pep, Pernell Whitaker, Floyd Mayweather etc. If boxing was dying (which I dont think it is) then it did to itself. Nothing to do with MMA though

Does one have to be either a boxing fan or MMA fan?

I'm a fan of combat sports.

azania wrote:

Steffan wrote:MMA is one company dominating an entire industry. Its got nothing to do with boxing the same way wrestling has nothing to do with boxing. Its a different form of entertainment. Its in a cage and basically human cockfighting. Elbowing, kneeing, they get into leg locks and start rolling around on the ground etc. If boxing ever advertised on a major channel with ‘blood splats’ like they have done on some UFC show, the state athletic commissions would jump all over it. As I said...its a different form of entertainment. MMA fans dont understand boxing is a science and that defence is as important as offense and they would never understand fighters like Willie Pep, Pernell Whitaker, Floyd Mayweather etc. If boxing was dying (which I dont think it is) then it did to itself. Nothing to do with MMA though

Does one have to be either a boxing fan or MMA fan?

I'm a fan of combat sports.

Im a fan of Judo. And yes you can like both sports. I was talking mainly about a lot of your average fans of Cagefighting. I got a mate who loves MMA and says he cannot understand why I love a sport where people fight with pillows on their hands and you cant kick

Steffan wrote:

azania wrote:

Steffan wrote:MMA is one company dominating an entire industry. Its got nothing to do with boxing the same way wrestling has nothing to do with boxing. Its a different form of entertainment. Its in a cage and basically human cockfighting. Elbowing, kneeing, they get into leg locks and start rolling around on the ground etc. If boxing ever advertised on a major channel with ‘blood splats’ like they have done on some UFC show, the state athletic commissions would jump all over it. As I said...its a different form of entertainment. MMA fans dont understand boxing is a science and that defence is as important as offense and they would never understand fighters like Willie Pep, Pernell Whitaker, Floyd Mayweather etc. If boxing was dying (which I dont think it is) then it did to itself. Nothing to do with MMA though

Does one have to be either a boxing fan or MMA fan?

I'm a fan of combat sports.

Im a fan of Judo. And yes you can like both sports. I was talking mainly about a lot of your average fans of Cagefighting. I got a mate who loves MMA and says he cannot understand why I love a sport where people fight with pillows on their hands and you cant kick

I'm a huge fan of both and see them as entirely different sports. It's normally the boxing fans who are more critical/cynical of MMA than the other way round though.

Dana White who runs the UFC, is a huge boxing fan and was a boxing instructor before getting into MMA.

Cheers Az,

Of course, any subjective scoring system is bound to throw up some contentious decisions, but they are, on the whole, far rarer in MMA - as you say. I think a certain amount of 'bad' decisions can be put down to sways in subjective perception. But I also think it's undeniable that influence from promoters and sanctioning bodies in boxing leads to a good few 'cooked' decisions. I mean I don't think for a second that Dana White wouldn't resort to protectionist or underhand tactics when trying to support the UFC...but perhaps the difference here is that he is protecting an organisation rather than a fighter, or stable of fighters (a la Bob Arum).

Another point about boxing is the obsession with perfect records. This is indicative of the oh so careful match making that goes on in the sport. MMA fighters are far less concerned by this for some reason. Most (or all) of the top guys have lost at some point, and some highly respected fighters have 7 or 8 losses, for example. I think this is a far more healthy attitude to have.

Basically, boxing has a lot of baggage that gets in the way of: a) making good fights, b) having credible champions. MMA in it's current state has far less of this baggage.

Steffan wrote:MMA is one company dominating an entire industry. Its got nothing to do with boxing the same way wrestling has nothing to do with boxing. Its a different form of entertainment. Its in a cage and basically human cockfighting. Elbowing, kneeing, they get into leg locks and start rolling around on the ground etc. If boxing ever advertised on a major channel with ‘blood splats’ like they have done on some UFC show, the state athletic commissions would jump all over it. As I said...its a different form of entertainment. MMA fans dont understand boxing is a science and that defence is as important as offense and they would never understand fighters like Willie Pep, Pernell Whitaker, Floyd Mayweather etc. If boxing was dying (which I dont think it is) then it did to itself. Nothing to do with MMA though

It's still relevant though as it's a competing good, and arguably a substitutary one from an opportunity cost of time point of view. I.e. there are two shows on on a Saturday night a boxing card and an MMA production, the fan (consumer) has to choose between which show they will 'consume', i.e. pay for and watch.

The two goods are not homogenous, but their consumption is interdependent and therefore the popularity of one affects the prosperity of the other.

Boxtthis wrote:Cheers Az,

Another point about boxing is the obsession with perfect records. This is indicative of the oh so careful match making that goes on in the sport. MMA fighters are far less concerned by this for some reason. Most (or all) of the top guys have lost at some point, and some highly respected fighters have 7 or 8 losses, for example. I think this is a far more healthy attitude to have.

I've never quite understood this obsession myself. The greatest boxer that ever lived retired with 19 losses on his record. He may have been fighting a lot more but even if you convert that to a percentage that's 10% which would reflect 3-5 losses on a modern fighter's record. Unfortunately an '0' appears to be more important than the glory of fighting (and beating) the best in the modern boxer's, and promoter's, psyche.

Steffan wrote:MMA is one company dominating an entire industry. Its got nothing to do with boxing the same way wrestling has nothing to do with boxing. Its a different form of entertainment. Its in a cage and basically human cockfighting. Elbowing, kneeing, they get into leg locks and start rolling around on the ground etc. If boxing ever advertised on a major channel with ‘blood splats’ like they have done on some UFC show, the state athletic commissions would jump all over it. As I said...its a different form of entertainment. MMA fans dont understand boxing is a science and that defence is as important as offense and they would never understand fighters like Willie Pep, Pernell Whitaker, Floyd Mayweather etc. If boxing was dying (which I dont think it is) then it did to itself. Nothing to do with MMA though

Utterly disagree with this. 'Wrestling' is fake. MMA is not. Both boxing and MMA have similar attracting elements to combat sports fans who respect the one-on-one competitive nature and the heart required to fight another man. There are obviously boxing fans that would never be MMA fans, and vice versa...but, equally, there are a great many crossover combat sport fans.

You are definitely selling MMA short as 'human cockfighting' and 'rolling around'. Maybe to an untrained eye. But, there is a great deal of technique involved in offensive and defensive Juijitsu. Boxing fans say MMA fighters have terrible boxing - yes, perhaps in a traditional sense, but these guys have to adopt a very different boxing style - one that has to be ready for kicks and takedowns. That's one of the main reasons it looks slack to boxing fans. I think the 'human cockfighting' line is a typical uninformed comment spun by dismissive boxing only fans.

I will agree that MMA had little to do with boxings downfall, and that boxing has 'done this to itself'. But, I do really think that MMA has served to highlight the failings in boxing. I also think that as time goes on, boxing in it's current form will repel more open minded fight fans, whereas MMA will attract them. So, I wouldn't say that MMA is currently 'stealing' large sections of existing boxing fans, but the way things are going, it will take the fans of the future.

TopHat24/7 wrote:

Boxtthis wrote:Cheers Az,

Another point about boxing is the obsession with perfect records. This is indicative of the oh so careful match making that goes on in the sport. MMA fighters are far less concerned by this for some reason. Most (or all) of the top guys have lost at some point, and some highly respected fighters have 7 or 8 losses, for example. I think this is a far more healthy attitude to have.

I've never quite understood this obsession myself. The greatest boxer that ever lived retired with 19 losses on his record. He may have been fighting a lot more but even if you convert that to a percentage that's 10% which would reflect 3-5 losses on a modern fighter's record. Unfortunately an '0' appears to be more important than the glory of fighting (and beating) the best in the modern boxer's, and promoter's, psyche.

I dont think a loss is that much of a hinderance. Obviously it helps when selling the fighter to the public. But look at Pac. It hasn't affected his standing that much.

He still get's a lot of stick for them though, even though they were so early on in his career. Particularly from the PBF crowd.

azania wrote:I dont think a loss is that much of a hinderance. Obviously it helps when selling the fighter to the public. But look at Pac. It hasn't affected his standing that much.

Yep, it's not exactly a huge problem. But, there is certainly more value placed on maintaining a zero in boxing than in MMA. It's just another thing that indicates very careful matchmaking and promoter protectionism to be the norm for the up and coming fighters in the sport.

TopHat24/7 wrote:He still get's a lot of stick for them though, even though they were so early on in his career. Particularly from the PBF crowd.

If he does it is pathetic.

azania wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:He still get's a lot of stick for them though, even though they were so early on in his career. Particularly from the PBF crowd.

If he does it is pathetic.

Agreed - absolutely pathetic. But, it's not just fans. I've heard Floyd himself talk about how Pacquaio can't be that good because he's lost and drawn a few. It's nonsense.

To be honest i think it's just Floyd trying to get under his skin. Guys like BHop haven't been quoted saying "but i'm a future HoF and i lost my first fight, does that make me lesser than you" etc etc as they know the game he's playing.

Most sensible posters just point to Pacs inability to cope with counter punchers and base their reasoning on him losing to Floyd on that point. Vice a versa Pac's fans use the whole "he doesn't like lefties, look at the Judah fight" as their main reasoning to why their man wins.

Only youtube gimps tend to use the reasoning you guys are mentioning. I try not to look at the comments on there though...

Boxtthis wrote:

azania wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:He still get's a lot of stick for them though, even though they were so early on in his career. Particularly from the PBF crowd.

If he does it is pathetic.

Agreed - absolutely pathetic. But, it's not just fans. I've heard Floyd himself talk about how Pacquaio can't be that good because he's lost and drawn a few. It's nonsense.

I'd expect that from Floyd seeing as he's promoting himself as being better than Manny without actually fighting him.

The youtube gimps are well and truly stupid, there is never a sane boxing conversation that goes on in the comment box there.

AlexHuckerby wrote:The youtube gimps are well and truly stupid, there is never a sane boxing conversation that goes on in the comment box there.

Unlike here

azania wrote:

AlexHuckerby wrote:The youtube gimps are well and truly stupid, there is never a sane boxing conversation that goes on in the comment box there.

Unlike here

AlexHuckerby wrote:The youtube gimps are well and truly stupid, there is never a sane boxing conversation that goes on in the comment box there.

Makes the arguments on here look like childs play.

Boxing is not dying as such. People milk it for all it is worth. I'm sure I would do the same thing and Floyd and Manny. A few fights for massive money, against less than stellar opposition. I really doubt many of you would be any different.

Stay at home in the nest with a dream bird for 3 months or go a train for 3 months when you are already rich beyond most peoples wildest dreams.

I know which i'd do...

johnson2 wrote:

AlexHuckerby wrote:The youtube gimps are well and truly stupid, there is never a sane boxing conversation that goes on in the comment box there.

Makes the arguments on here look like childs play.

Boxing is not dying as such. People milk it for all it is worth. I'm sure I would do the same thing and Floyd and Manny. A few fights for massive money, against less than stellar opposition. I really doubt many of you would be any different.

Stay at home in the nest with a dream bird for 3 months or go a train for 3 months when you are already rich beyond most peoples wildest dreams.

I know which i'd do...

Fight 10 times a year?

Don't so much think boxing is dying but the quality in class fighters most definitely has gone down.
The Heavyweight division is a joke,the LightHeavy and Middleweight divisions aren't all that, and at Welter its PBF and Pacman and the rest are a country mile away.
I don't even think British boxing is in a great state with regards to quality at the moment.

Agreed, beyond the recognisable names the strength in depth of the divisions is at an all time low as far as i'm concerned, Welterweight is one of the stronger divisions yet has men the calibre Senchenko, Aydin and Zaveck highly ranked.