Who would win Cooper or Haye??

There was a recent article that mentioned Cooper it reminded me that this was a great british heavyweight. Cooper as we know almost beat Ali there fight he caught Ali with a massive left hook that almost knocked him out his corner had to split his glove to buy him extra time. A bit naughty from Alis corner tbh but he is the best boxer of all time so i will give him a break. What a win that would have been for Cooper though and how many guys can say they knocked down Ali?? Many people believe Cooper was very unfortunate not to win a world title.

Haye is another of our quality heavyweights who unlike Cooper won a world title. But many people believe Haye was at his best at cruiserweight where he was one of the greatest cruiserweights of all time. Here is the thing to remember though Cooper was also a very small heavyweight he was not much bigger than Haye so this fight could be at cruiserweight or heavyweight!

This would be an all British heavyweight clash I would love to see. Who would win? Very hard to say I think. Haye has the advatage in speed maybe that would make the difference but who could rule out Cooper if he lands that left hook on Haye he could end it right there because Haye would not be able to get up like Ali did imo. Who would you say wins this fight??

Go for Haye...much bigger.. probably quicker and more powerful..

Is Haye bigger than Henry?

I know Heavywieghts werent as big back then but Haye is a pretty small heavyweight by todays standards.

Haye is a beefed up 215lbs approx compared to Coopers 190lbs, think speed rather than size is the major factor in this.

Cooper would flatten the hype job. If he could floor Ali then he would certainly turn the lights out on Haye. In Cooper we a genuine class heavyweight who didnt need to mouth off or rely on Sky tv to hype him up into a superstar. He fought during a time when the world title meant something to everyone and he was very unfortunate that he was so susceptible to cuts and was around when a certain young Mr Clay was on the road to greatness.

Also unfortunate to be around when Chuvalo was around too, his commonwealth mandatory for years who he refused to fight, if you wont fight him then you can hardly say you were unfortunate.

Waingro wrote: he caught Ali with a massive left hook that almost knocked him out his corner had to split his glove to buy him extra time.

Eight seconds, as officially timed against a real time and complete film of the fight.

I really wouldn't bother Windy.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:I really wouldn't bother Windy.

Bother with what? 8 seconds is a long time in boxing his corner was being very clever buying Ali more time he needed to recover. If that punch had landed earlier in the round the fight could have been over or been stopped just ask Lewis who got stopped against McCall.

It wasn't earlier in the round was it, seeing as he never replicated that punch against Paterson, Folley or Johansson it's significance isn't that great.

Haye for me. Cooper had his moments, but too many losses consistently to lower level fighters and too often well short at the highest level to really be considered genuinely world class. I think Haye would have a decent speed and movement advantage aswell as more elusive. Better overall skillset too. Cooper wouldnt outsize him in any way either so Haye would be fighting a similar sized man. Id forsee a mid to late rouund stoppage for Haye.

I think Haye would prepare well for this fight. He wouldn't underestimate Henry's hammer, but he'd also be very aware of Cooper's Achilles heel: his propensity to being cut. Cooper wouldn't be allowed to bleed as profusely with boxing's stricter medical guidelines, so I'd see this going to an early to mid-round stoppage.

Agreed - there is a punchers chance and Cooper is quick enough to do some damage but Haye has weight and power advantage and an ability to hit while he is moving then get out of range.

I would go for Cooper myself, he has a bad decision go against v Bugner who was a bigger bloke so i back Cooper to beat Haye

Personally I would go for Haye early, think that he would be a bit too good for Cooper and probably hit a bit too hard as well, too much speed for cooper to overcome who was sort of Euro level at best really.

Haye all day long for me, not sure I can give Our 'Enery anything more than a puncher's chance here. Remarkably inconsistent at a level just below world class, and with a tendancy to cut to ribbons, I think Haye would be too fast, too elusive and hit too hard for him. Cooper's boxing (which wasn't all that bad) would keep him in it until the mid stages, but gradually I can see Haye taking control and, by the sixth or seventh, I think Cooper's vulnerable eyebrows let him down again. Haye by a cuts stoppage, mid rounds.

Agree with all that's said in Chris' post above. Cooper was tough, game, and had decent fundamentals, but Haye would be much faster. Haye was ineffective against Wlad because of Wlad's use of distance leading to Haye not being able to lay a glove on him. But, Haye would be able to catch Cooper in my opinion (with Cooper having neither the elusiveness or range to avoid all Haye's attacks over a number of rounds)...and if Haye catches anyone then they're in trouble.

A competitive fight at first, but for me Haye eventually gets through with something hurtful and then continues to land heavier shots towards a TKO.

Another point is who has more power?? Ali had one of the best chins of all time but Cooper managed to knock him down and daze him badly this shows Cooper had power but Haye also has a huge amount of power his KO ratio is huge and lets not forget he was one of the only fighters to stop Ruiz the only other guy to stop him was Tua who was one of the hardest punchers of all time. Haye also nearly knocked out the giant Valuev who nobody has come close to hurting before so who has more power Cooper or Haye?

Difficult to say, there's a lot of guys that don't think that the power moved up to Heavyweight when he fought there, however I guess that Cooper weighing what 190ish Haye could weigh in around the top end of the 190's making it basically a cruiser fight. Would go with Haye personally hitting harder.

Not sure either of them are huge punchers but if it came down to it think Cooper takes Hayes power better than the other way round.

cooper caught a young ali (before he was even ali) with one shot and he dined off it for the rest of his career.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Not sure either of them are huge punchers but if it came down to it think Cooper takes Hayes power better than the other way round.

Thats why I think he would win the fight, either on points or by late KO. I don't remember too many times when Haye won a fight in the latter stages. I think provided Cooper gets by the first 3-4 rounds in decent shape, he starts dictating the fight. Haye might be quicker, but Cooper was more durable (custs excluded), and thinks he weathers Haye's potshots. I don't think Haye throws often enough to discourage Cooper, who would take the centre of the ring IMO. I think the two are even in terms of power, cooper has better technique, heart and chin, wihle Haye has speed and slightly more physical strength.

Fundamentally, Cooper's durability and heart beats Hayes speed. Cooper gets off the deck to beat Haye late on.

You do write some rubbish Waingro. Who thought Cooper was unlucky not to be a world champion? To be a world champion you've got to fight one and win,Cooper fought and lost to fading ex champs and didn't want a bar of Liston who was champion at the time. I've said it before, Cooper was european and British champion and that's as far as he would ever go even if he was fighting today. I have a feeling that Haye would be too busy and quick for him and probably knock him out.

Just looking at Henry's record on boxrec. It states he defeated Johnny Prescott on 15/06/65, and that Prescott weighed 260 1/4 lbs at the time. However Prescott's record shows him at below 200lbs for the 2 fights before and after Cooper. All 3 fights are within the same 7 months. Must be an error right?

BTW - I think Haye beats Henry. Too much power and speed for him as others have said.

Haye for me as well. I'm not a big fan of his but he would have roughly 2 stone on Cooper and a bit of a height advantage as well. Put that along with his speed advantage and the fact he was a more skilful boxer I find it very hard to make a case for Cooper.

I know Haye gets a few people's backs up, especially after his performance and excuses against wlad, but he can actually fight. Cooper on the other hand was a diamond geezer who wowed the public with one punch against ali, a rare ability to splash cheap aftersave all over, and a list of excuses for his defeats that would turn even haye's little pinky red with embarassment.

Ridiculous article, people will be saying marciano would beat tyson next

Right now it is 50/50 between who would win tbh I am not surprised I think it is a very hard fight to call both guys were quality and the fight could be at cruiserweight or heavyweight. Imo the fight would be very close.

Waingro wrote:Right now it is 50/50 between who would win tbh I am not surprised I think it is a very hard fight to call both guys were quality and the fight could be at cruiserweight or heavyweight. Imo the fight would be very close.

Waingro, have you actually read any of the other posts?

Haye.

I have voted for Haye, if there is a facility to upgrade that vote to Haye every day of the week and twice on Sunday I would be grateful if someone could make that happen, and I don't even like Haye.

Think there's a fair few votes for Cooper mainly because people dislike Haye.

Waingro wrote:Right now it is 50/50 between who would win tbh I am not surprised I think it is a very hard fight to call both guys were quality and the fight could be at cruiserweight or heavyweight. Imo the fight would be very close.

At Cruiser which in modern terms Cooper is he would have had more of a chance but I would still back Haye.

Cooper is an odd one. His popularity in his hey day meant he was oversold to here domestically but I dont think any more than Haye and his all his talk and Sky Sports hype campaign did some 40 or 50 years later.

We have to remember that Cooper was a good domestic and European champion at a time when that met something and was an acheivement in itself. Nowadays the pick n mix of belts available at world level has diminished the value of these more traditional old titles quite significantly. We can say Cooper fell short at the highest level as fights with Ali and Patterson and to a lesser extent Johansson did. I dont think Cooper had really found his level when he met the Swede but its somewhat beside the point. A better approach for me would be to see how the great salesman Haye wold fare against the Folleys, Johanssons and Patterson. Ive seen nothing from him to suggest he beats them. Conversely I think Cooper has every chance of emulating wins over the kind of fighters Haye did. Mormeck, Maccarinelli, Ruiz, Harrison, Valuev who are inferior to the likes of Ali, Patterson, Folley, Johansson, Mildenbergers of the previous day.

Interesting points, Colonial, but I'd add that from the outset, Cooper simply has more notable weaknesses than Haye, and less notable strengths. Cut easily, not as big a puncher, a left hook of genuine quality but, as he himself said, a right which was purely for "wiping away the sweat." Records and distinguishing wins / losses aside, how do you see the Haye-Cooper match up from a purely technical perspective?

It's a fair comment about Cooper's wins being at least comparable to Haye - but Cooper also slipped up against some decidedly average opposition too, in a way which Haye (the Thompson fight aside) didn't. For instance, I'm not sure I'd see Haye losing twice to someone like Erskine.

Colonial Lion wrote:Cooper is an odd one. His popularity in his hey day meant he was oversold to here domestically but I dont think any more than Haye and his all his talk and Sky Sports hype campaign did some 40 or 50 years later.

We have to remember that Cooper was a good domestic and European champion at a time when that met something and was an acheivement in itself. Nowadays the pick n mix of belts available at world level has diminished the value of these more traditional old titles quite significantly. We can say Cooper fell short at the highest level as fights with Ali and Patterson and to a lesser extent Johansson did. I dont think Cooper had really found his level when he met the Swede but its somewhat beside the point. A better approach for me would be to see how the great salesman Haye wold fare against the Folleys, Johanssons and Patterson. Ive seen nothing from him to suggest he beats them. Conversely I think Cooper has every chance of emulating wins over the kind of fighters Haye did. Mormeck, Maccarinelli, Ruiz, Harrison, Valuev who are inferior to the likes of Ali, Patterson, Folley, Johansson, Mildenbergers of the previous day.

I don't think we are saying that he can't emulate what Haye did, but it's different going through a head to head basis, one that I struggle to see Cooper winning.

I think, technically, there is no comparison, with Haye possessing much the better skillset of the two. With the speed and size advantage added to that, and of course the power, I can't find a way for Henry to win this fight.

i see this one as a tough one, you write it down on paper and haye has most of the advantages. but something keeps telling me that cooper is the tougher of the two and he could take hayes but haye couldnt take his best. see cooper trying to rough haye up in this one and while the later the fight goes the more cuts come into i also think hayes stamina will also play a part in later rounds. think haye doesnt throw many for a reason, he learnt the hard way against thompson

should add that im not saying cooper wins more often than not, but could say out of ten fights see him stopping haye in at least 3. people being slighty harsh on cooppers level as colonial suggested british/european level then is no different than the "world" champs today. with the execption of klits brothers

To be fair, didn't Haye take the Thompson fight on short notice, liek two weeks? (Could be wrong) Don't think he tok the 42 year old Thompson all that seriously personally. Wouldn't see him gas as fast as he did in a fight if that is true, think his stamina is a bit suspect but he can most certainly go twelve at a steady pace.

Against Thompson he threw a hell of a lot of shots and put everything into them, to be fair Thompson took untold amounts in the first 4 rounds.

yeah he was very green back then i agree, but learning from that his output has almost become to low. anybody with a cast iron chin and good work rate could out point haye. the problem with this match up is cooper could be stopped either cuts or knockout

Technically I dont understand what the plaudits regarding Haye has been about. I havent been impressed by his technical abilty. Hes had opposition that are largely ageing fighters who were never that good even at their peak. I dont think his skillset anything special. Coopers wasnt either mind you, but I dont think he was an inferior boxer to Haye. The cuts are a weakness, if Haye can manage to deviate from his limited one punch knock out strategy he could exploit it but I think Cooper is a better boxer than he is being credited with on here in technical sense whereas Haye seems to be overcredited from the fighter I have witnessed. If Haye cant stop Cooper with a big punch or on cuts then I suspect Cooper, who I wouldnt warrant would also stop Haye if he landed a big shot, migt take it on points.

The problem I see with Cooper is that his popularity, along with his moment against Ali, led many in the British public and even some more respected figures in the sport to place him on a pedestal that wasnt really befitting of his talents. He wasnt a heavyweight of elite calibre yet he was held by some as such and presented by some as such. But Haye no more deserves to be on that pedestal either. Cooper may indeed have been overrated but it doesnt take an elite heavyweight to beat Haye. I think a Cooper standard heavyweight is well capable of it.

Colonial Lion wrote:Technically I dont understand what the plaudits regarding Haye has been about. I havent been impressed by his technical abilty. Hes had opposition that are largely ageing fighters who were never that good even at their peak. I dont think his skillset anything special. Coopers wasnt either mind you, but I dont think he was an inferior boxer to Haye. The cuts are a weakness, if Haye can manage to deviate from his limited one punch knock out strategy he could exploit it but I think Cooper is a better boxer than he is being credited with on here in technical sense whereas Haye seems to be overcredited from the fighter I have witnessed. If Haye cant stop Cooper with a big punch or on cuts then I suspect Cooper, who I wouldnt warrant would also stop Haye if he landed a big shot, migt take it on points.

Spot on. In relation to the poll, then I think Haye would be big enough, hit hard enough and have the speed to stop Cooper on cuts sometime after round 6, but as far as Haye's mystical 'skillset' goes, I am baffled. He has no real jab to speak of, footwork that largely consists of leaping in to land a punch and then leaping about if he doesn't land, limited left hooks and uppercuts, no real desire to work the body and suspect stamina. He is reasonably elusive but mainly because he fights from a 'safe' distance. He gets way too much credit for his skill on here.

i think often his speed is mistaken for skill. getting hit without getting hit is the name of the game and hayes not too bad at this becuase of his speed. but certainly no techincal great, quick one punches wins acclaim at amateurs but in the pro's at heavy he would need more to keep off good heavyweights. luckily he has only fought one and he's the most defensive fighter in the division.

The argument on technical skill sets can get a bit pedantic imo. Roy jones was no technician but he had tremendous speed, balance and power. I'm not saying Haye is Roy Jones by any stretch but he has significant speed power and size advantages here. His downsides on the match up are stamina and work rateCL is right to flag the haye marketing machine as outweighing his actual achievements, but sometimes its just down to watching them both fight. I've seen enough of both of them to base my opinion on that and its Haye every time for me.

milky- the problem with haye is we've only seen him against pretty poor fighters, other than wlad where he lost by shutout. its easy running around looking good against the valuevs of the world. if boxing was on paper haye would clearly win but his record at heavyweight has nothing to suggest he would have a easy time against cooper who nearly knocked out ali, one of the best chins of all time. haye has been lucky to build a profile through sky in two of the worst divisions around. cooper had a much tougher time of it at HW and is clearly the more seasoned at the weight. no walk over this one for me

seasoned at the weight? I guess he was but cooper was only ever a cruiser, cl is right to point out the multi belt routes available now but haye proved himself the world's best cruiser. Cooper proved he was the best of the british heavies, but got battered when he moved up in class... people watch the ali knock down and forget what ali did to him once he'd been woken up. sparked by ingo, sparked by patterson sparked by folley. i'll credit him for a disputed win first time out against folley and a dq win against mildenberger as he was winning the fight. Lost to plenty of mediocrity though.

In short there are plenty of question marks against haye, its hard to say how good he really is/was... but its all there to see with cooper. Unlucky with cuts, but media-darling, european at best level fighter. Whatever haye's level, its better than that imo.

Gordy wrote:Cooper would flatten the hype job. If he could floor Ali then he would certainly turn the lights out on Haye. In Cooper we a genuine class heavyweight who didnt need to mouth off or rely on Sky tv to hype him up into a superstar. He fought during a time when the world title meant something to everyone and he was very unfortunate that he was so susceptible to cuts and was around when a certain young Mr Clay was on the road to greatness.

I do love this logic. Henry floored Ali so becuase he floored Ali, he automatically beats Haye?

WOW, Gordy, you have done well today.

Speed is the key for this one. Have has far more than Henry which makes this a comfortable night for him.

Cooper wins this for me. Think his left hook would have caused Haye some problems. Late stoppage for Enry'.

Agree with almost all of Colonial's points.
Also, at what point in this fantasy fight is Haye actually going to throw some leather. For this reason, I reckon 'Enery's 'Ammer gets to Haye before he realises that the other guy wants to knock him out.

I would actually question as to whether Cooper would beat Mormeck to be honest.