The reasons why players decide to decide to play for one country or another.

First topic message reminder :

The international qualification laws are flawed as I've often remarked,

But essentially this is a topic looking through the telescope from the other end - the player's perspective.

Let's take a couple of recent Welsh-related incidents - Morgan has chosen England and Shingler to Scotland.

What are the reasons why these guys elect to plant their feet in one camp or another?

So far as I can see there are a number of possible motivations:

Take an easy cap and hope for the best.

Choose a country that has the greatest mid/long-term potential and hope hope to make the grade.

Get sucked in for the (possibly hollow) 'promise' of financial gain.

Go for the nation that you feel at heart you are most allied to.

Take any chance you can through whatever loophole in the full knowledge that you'll never play for your home nation.

Switch codes for pecuniary gain.

etc.


However strongly you feel (as I do) about the iniquities of the qualification rules and international selections, it does take two to tango and it makes a big difference to me as to the player's commitment and rationale for the choice.

Portnoy wrote:The international qualification laws are flawed as I've often remarked,

There are quite a few issues of confusion by various unions and when you get to the point where Unions need comitees to mediate disputes then something needs to change. I dont have an issue with Unions being allowed to designate which team their second one is, but I do think once you have ANY cap for that Second team you should be tied in, regardless if the opposing teams classifies their team as their A too.
Wales have designated their second team as their under 20 team, and for Shingler to play 14 times for Wales U20, including being one of the idiots who lost 92-0 to New Zealand in the World Cup, then he should be tied in.

Let's take a couple of recent Welsh-related incidents - Morgan has chosen England and Shingler to Scotland.

What are the reasons why these guys elect to plant their feet in one camp or another?

Morgan said he always felt English, but he likes Wales and appreciates that their clubs gave him an oppertunity, first Ebbw Vale rescuing his career from the scrap heap when no pro or semi pro English club would give him a chance. Then the Scarlets giving him an oppertunity and professional contract at the top end of the game. But if he feels English then it's better he plays for England.

Shingler would of had to earn his chance at the Scarlets by improving and ousting Priestland and Stephen Jones, London Irish offered him a bit more money so he decided to cut and run. He has done well there so he has made the right decision.

It was known he was eligible for other countries but after accepting WRU investment in him to play the the U20's then he has basically dropped a turd on Wales. Wales have basically included him in two 6 Nations squads and two U20 World Cups to develop as a player
to get experience, and he has slapped Wales in the face for it.

Those 14 Welsh Under 20 caps might have been better invested in a loyal Welshman, and the SRU should be forced to pay back the costs of developing him.

Go for the nation that you feel at heart you are most allied to.

Well if Shingler has lived his life in Wales and worn our colours through the age groups, he is Welsh, not to mention being in an advert with a Welsh top.

This is me:

Mother - Born in Glasgow
Father - Born in Glasgow
Grandparent 1 - Born in India
Grandparent 2 - Born in India (but counts as Pakistan now after the divide)
Grandparent 3 - Born in Ireland
Grandparent 4 - Born in Scotland
Me - Born in Glasgow. Lived in England since I was 4.

So I qualify for five countries: India, Pakistan, Scotland, Ireland, England. India nor Pakistan have a team but I am eligible to find enough people and start it (!)

However, nationality wise I was raised really by my father, who grew up in Ireland and so sees himself as Irish and Scottish. Given my and my parents' birth in Glasgow, he brought me up a Scot ... and so it is. I would only ever consider a call up for Scotland, even the U20s (although too old for that now). Who knows, at 22 it might yet happen

But I have discussed this with many people and they say they'd play it differently. Conclusion? It's a personal thing.

Ok this is me.

Mother - South African
Father - South African
Grandfathers - both -South African
Grandmothers - both - South African
Fore fathers, - well they lost their papers in the great trek of 1832.

Who do I want to play for, hell at this point of my life anyone who will pay me a good salary.

Kind of nice to have an assured heritage though, right?

Yeah, even though it can become quite boring.

what is your fathers nationality - SA
Your mother - SA
your grandfather - SA
Grandma - SA
great grandparents - SA
When your forefathers were still monkeys - SA
When time began - Well no it gets interesting, we think we evolved from the peanut. About the same size as your brain.

I don't know I quite like my Irish English mix.

Having said that it is Ireland every time - it is where I live and what I call home.

KickAndChase wrote:This is me:

Mother - Born in Glasgow
Father - Born in Glasgow
Grandparent 1 - Born in India
Grandparent 2 - Born in India (but counts as Pakistan now after the divide)
Grandparent 3 - Born in Ireland
Grandparent 4 - Born in Scotland
Me - Born in Glasgow. Lived in England since I was 4.

So I qualify for five countries: India, Pakistan, Scotland, Ireland, England. India nor Pakistan have a team but I am eligible to find enough people and start it (!)

However, nationality wise I was raised really by my father, who grew up in Ireland and so sees himself as Irish and Scottish. Given my and my parents' birth in Glasgow, he brought me up a Scot ... and so it is. I would only ever consider a call up for Scotland, even the U20s (although too old for that now). Who knows, at 22 it might yet happen

But I have discussed this with many people and they say they'd play it differently. Conclusion? It's a personal thing.

India stand a proud 74th in the world rankings, so I guess they have a national side (or at least a board).

All down to the individual anf they're attachemnt, if they live in different country to where they were born.

My friend and his brother, who is about 2 years older than him, moved to skewen when they weer 6 and 8. My mate still lives yer and considers himself Welsh and has always supported Wales. His brother on the other hand, wouold only ever support England, went to a English university and decided to stay in England

People with too many grandparents (let's say 4) shouldn't be allowed to play representative rugby at all - that'd fix it