Pick Your Ireland Squad for the Six Nations

First topic message reminder :

Pick your squad for Ireland in the Six Nations, and you could win the chance to be in a long, boring, meaningless argument with Sin E and/or rodders. Call now!

Here's my effort;

PROPS
Cian Healy, Mike Ross, Tom Court, Tony Buckley, Paddy McAllister
HOOKERS
Rory Best, Sean Cronin, Damien Varley
LOCKS
Paul O'Connell, Donnacha Ryan, Donncha O'Callaghan, Dan Tuohy, Devin Toner
BACKROW
Stephen Ferris, Sean O'Brien, Jamie Heaslip, Peter O'Mahony, Chris Henry
SCRUM HALF
Eoin Reddan, Conor Murray, Isaac Boss
OUTHALF
Ronan O'Gara, Johnny Sexton
CENTRES
Gordon D'Arcy, Paddy Wallace, Fergus McFadden, Darren Cave, Keith Earls
BACK THREE
Luke Fitzgerald, Andrew Trimble, Tommy Bowe, Rob Kearney, Gavin Duffy

Captain; Paul O'Connell
Vice-Captains; Rory Best, Ronan O'Gara, Johnny Sexton, Jamie Heaslip

Additional Players to feature for Ireland A but not the squad for the tournament proper;

Stephen Archer, Mike Sherry, Shane Jennings, Mike McCarthy, Paul Marshall, Ian Madigan, Nevin Spence, Simon Zebo, Craig Gilroy

Gibson wrote:Decco. Calm down man. Why is it, that all Limerick men lose it, when the status-quo is even questioned? Same ol. Same ol.

Here's to another 100 years of mediocrity bud.

Zebo in the Wolfhounds now. Another great game and a promotion to the final 30?

Id fuccccking love it. It would be a clear statement of a Kidney awakening. He wouldnt make it, but just like to see him told he could.

You'd hate it. Ooh No.Too much change already. I cant handle it. Where's de Bull?

Limerickman? How insulting

Why is that? You from Tipp? The real Hurling Capital?

Sorry man. Mea culpa.

Much respect.

Gibson wrote:Why is that? You from Tipp? The real Hurling Capital?

Sorry man. Mea culpa.

DOD only wishes he was from Tipp

Nobody wishes they are from Tipp.

I'm not talking mass changes for the sake of it, I'm just talking club form being rewarded and poor form or recent injury players not just waltzing into the team on reputation. How can that be disputed?

Ah come on now lads...the 6N hasn't even started yet and the knives are out...lets see what Deccie can come up with against Wales.

Schmidt, McGahan, McGlaughlin and Elwood have handed him a GS on a plate...lets see if he can pick up the ball and run with it.

Agree with a lot of what you are saying Gibson but Kidney is stifled by the short term thinking of the IRFU, for them this is the bread and butter and they want results. Experimentation will not be tolerated at the expense of results therefore there is a pressure to stick with the tried and tested. Its a financial matter for them.

I'll be very disappointed though if Peter O'Mahoney and Devin Toner in particular don't feature at some point in the 6N but its important that we are back at the top of Europe again come March. Chris Henry is close too but there are some very good backrowers there.

Lets see how Madigan, O'Halloran, Spence, O'Malley and Zebo go in the wolfhounds. Throw Gilroy, Conaway and Dave Kearney in too and with Felix Jones, Darren Cave, Luke Marshall, Eoin Griffin etc. out there are some mouth watering backline cominations there for the (near)future.

Fitzgerald out of Wolfhounds game with injury...Zebo takes his place, has this been mentioned?

Gutted for him - how long is he out for?

Doesn't say on the BBC Rory...still struggling with a neck and back injury.

Unfortunate for him but a great opportunity for ZEEEEEEBOOOOOO!!!!

clivemcl wrote:I'm not talking mass changes for the sake of it, I'm just talking club form being rewarded and poor form or recent injury players not just waltzing into the team on reputation. How can that be disputed?

A lot of people are saying this but of the likely team who are talking about ?

Healy
Best
Ross
Ryan
POC
Ferris
SOB
Heaslip
Murray
Sexton
Trimble
Darcy
Earls
Bowe
Kearney

Those who are questionable in selection or performance:

Ross - there is no alternative
Ryan - marginal over Toner and Tuohy but perfectly understandable
Murray - marginal over Reddan but perfectly understandable
DArcy - marginal over Wallace and McFadden but perfectly understable
Earls - with BOD and CAve injured and O'Malley not first choice at Leinster who else is there
Trimble and Bowe - with Fitzgerald injured they are the obvious choice.

I just dont see who these players are in in wonderful provincial form who warrant selection instead of the above

roddersm wrote:Doesn't say on the BBC Rory...still struggling with a neck and back injury.

Unfortunate for him but a great opportunity for ZEEEEEEBOOOOOO!!!!

I STILL haven't got to see his tries were they good tries?

They were Zebotastic Rory! You missed out sir, amazing game of Rugby!...all the games involving the Irish sides were brilliant actually..feckin magic weekend!

There are extended highlights on TG4's website Rory. Go to TG4 Player, click on Sport in the Archive section and it should be one of the first videos there. All of Zebo's tries were in the second half so if you like you can just select Part 2.

Zebo for President!

geoff998rugby wrote:

clivemcl wrote:I'm not talking mass changes for the sake of it, I'm just talking club form being rewarded and poor form or recent injury players not just waltzing into the team on reputation. How can that be disputed?

A lot of people are saying this but of the likely team who are talking about ?

Healy
Best
Ross
Ryan
POC
Ferris
SOB
Heaslip
Murray
Sexton
Trimble
Darcy
Earls
Bowe
Kearney

Those who are questionable in selection or performance:

Ross - there is no alternative
Ryan - marginal over Toner and Tuohy but perfectly understandable
Murray - marginal over Reddan but perfectly understandable
DArcy - marginal over Wallace and McFadden but perfectly understable
Earls - with BOD and CAve injured and O'Malley not first choice at Leinster who else is there
Trimble and Bowe - with Fitzgerald injured they are the obvious choice.

I just dont see who these players are in in wonderful provincial form who warrant selection instead of the above

Well lets be honest here, Is bowe the best irish winger apart from trimble on current form? No, probably Zebo is. But of course Bowe will be picked regardless.

Is Bowe playing that poorly? seen him score a try a few weeks ago? Its hard to judge a winger if his team is struggling, its probably the position where you have least influence.

Bowe is the kind of player who can turn it on in the big stage and has proved it time and time again. He's worth the risk imo,especially against Wales.

Zebo is electric in attack but still learning, let him show what he can do for the Wolfhounds.

Clive and quite right too.

To pick purely on form is madness

Purely on form Marshall should be 9 and even as an Ulster supporter I think that would be crazy.

There no way Zebo should be picked in front of Bowe

I agree rodders.

One bad game and Zebo would be "OMG soooooooooooooooooo awful!", one great game and he's the Messiah.

Well I have news for everyone - he's not the Messiah, he's a very young player who's only just finding his feet at this level and it'd be unfair on him to throw him straight into the 6 Nations, especially against a team which we haven't beaten since 2010. (Catchy, eh?)

As has been said, Bowe is playing as part of a team that's struggling badly at the moment. He's still a great player and IMO should play.

Incidentally, if Cave wasn't injured I'd be advocating him at 13, Earls at 11 and Trimble at 14 (his best position). But since that option is no longer available to us then leaving Bowe out (especially for a very rough diamond such as Zebo) would be foolish, IMO.

Bowe is class, there's no denying that. Speaking as a Welshman though, I've long been a fan of Bowe but were I to be completely honest Zebo would be more feared at the moment, by that I mean I'd be happier to see Bowe run out than Zebo as he's on fire right now.

The side I'd least like us to face

Healy - class. Catching up with Melon as the best.
Best - Number 1 hooker in B&I atm.
Ross - Not many options here.
Tuohy - A fearsome prospect. Repay his hard work and he won't disappoint.
POC - No need to explain.
Ferris - Can't really even consider anyone else.
SOB - Great with the ball but would like to see a more 'true' openside.
Heaslip - Picks himself. Great backrow unit.
Murray - Has been absolutely superb. Few could argue against him starting.
ROG - I know most of Ireland would pick Sexton and you're really fortunate to have 2 in form world class fly halves. But when I see ROG as starting I know he's going to hit his goals, pin us back, get drops and just get you in the right places. Then with Sexton to come on if things aren't going well and inject some pace, who us also a superb goal kicker and reader of the game - Class. I am envious of your strength here.
Trimble - On form, has to play.
Darcy - Have to admit, not your strongest area but Darcy will do a job.
Earls - There seems to be a lot of debate here, with BOD injured you're not prepared to accept anyone else. Earls is strong, certainly has an eye for the line and has great pace. When he has the ball the defence seem to second guess themselves, they know he can take them.
Zebo - Will be a star. Needs the chance and will deliver. Bowe on the bench in case.
Kearney - I would say he's on great form but he doesn't really seem to have poor form. Will always deliver.

Well, that's the side I don't want to see (or do want go see in the games after Wales). Not too many controversial pickings and it's only my opinion.

Lets not get too exited re Zebo. Yes I agree he is a real prospect but I have seen enough to suggest he is still a bit niave in defence and at International level this would be exposed.
Imo he is not ready, yet, for the big stage, same for Gilroy, same for O'Malley, same for Conway and others.

We should be considering more those closer to the big stage - Cave (sadly injured), McFadden and maybe Spence to see what they can really do in their preferred position.

Time will come for anyone who is good enough.

I'm very excited about Zebo and I hope he continues on the upward curve but weren't we talking up McFadden and Spence at this time last year. Neither is any closer to a nailed on spot in the Test team but should be our centres in the Wolfhounds. Whether we like it or not it is the Deccie way to bring these players through so I feel, good as Zebo is, we won't see him regularly in the test arena for another 12 to 18 months.

Ive heard having spoken to another academy lad that apparently education is a reason for late development. The idea is that they try to ensure that by 21-22 every player has a Leaving Cert and third level qualification and they can break into the top flight then.

You can do as much college education as you want BA, MA, PHD - but knowing your profession begins the day you start a job.

Yes, Zebo is what he only can be at his age and his level of experience - inexperienced. No he won't get time(unless there are some weird injuries) so it's only a discussion.

But in my book inexperience is never a good reason to stop someone from doing something. Every parent knows their children have to one day sit in a car and turn the key, every time a player gets his first senior International cap, an inexperienced player at that level walks onto the field. It's inevitable.

So he might be ropey in defence... well, yep, and so too and often have our elites. It happens to experienced players as much as the inexperienced. Nobody is perfect. But for a dollop of potential try strikes, I'd allow an imperfect being into my team.

I think McFadden has kicked on from last year Rava and is certainly closer to a starting spot. I'd say he'll be well in contention for the 22 jersey.

Spence has been very unlucky with injury, probably played too many games in the past 12 months.

I'm pretty about the selection this time, there's a lot of form being shown across the board...the young and old guys. I'd be happy enough with the team mentioned above and theres a lot of guys deserving of a go.

Also Dennis Leamy is injured...so whilst it's not great for him (get well soon Dennis ) , its one less thing to worry about.....

Id have been amazed to see Leamy in there. When he is fit this season he has been a mere backup player for Munster.

MMC wrote:There are extended highlights on TG4's website Rory. Go to TG4 Player, click on Sport in the Archive section and it should be one of the first videos there. All of Zebo's tries were in the second half so if you like you can just select Part 2.

Zebo for President!

Thanks a bunch friend!

roddersm wrote:I think McFadden has kicked on from last year Rava and is certainly closer to a starting spot. I'd say he'll be well in contention for the 22 jersey.

Spence has been very unlucky with injury, probably played too many games in the past 12 months.

I'm pretty about the selection this time, there's a lot of form being shown across the board...the young and old guys. I'd be happy enough with the team mentioned above and theres a lot of guys deserving of a go.

Also Dennis Leamy is injured...so whilst it's not great for him (get well soon Dennis ) , its one less thing to worry about.....

That's what I was saying. This time last year there were calls for him to be in the team. He has been eased into the squad gradually and while I agree he should be in the matchday squad, he is not yet considered a bolter. It would most likely take another couple of injuries to make that happen.
We wouldn't want that, would we?

There are only a few positions up for debate and while most of us would like a degree of rotation and an influx of young players, there are very few who are demanding to be included with their form. Of the young players the only one who has been in sensational form throughout the group stages is POM and he just has the bad luck to play in our strongest position.

The front row picks itself, unless there is an injury and we can be fairly sure that the two bench players will be Court and Cronin.

The second row is just a matter of who to partner Poc. This is one of the difficult ones. I think that Deccie will go for Ryan and I really hope he does. I'd say we are likely to see Doc involved which is going to be unfair on Tuohy and McCarthy. Toner is competing with Poc and there is only one winner in that battle, I also feel he brings the least impact of the other back up players.

Backrow is just a matter of who is the sub. You would expect that its a straight choice between Henry and Pom. I'd go for Pom because, as much as I love Henry and what he's done for Ulster this season, Pom has a greater potential and has been just as good this season.

Then in the halfbacks. Sexton is a no brainer at 10 and Murray wins the race for 9 imo. He is the young player and I think he has done well this season. Reddan to come on around 55 mins.

12 is the problem position, more than 13 imo. In the world cup defeat our problems came because we weren't able to gain any momentum at 10 or 12. Sexton in will help to alleviate some of the issue but there is no battering ram at 12 so instead we have to go with guile. I honestly thought Paddy was excellent against Clermont, he didn't miss a tackle, always went forward with the ball and his passing and kicking were superb. But if we're looking to the future then I think McFadden is the way to go. I would have picked Fitz here if fit.

I'll go for Earls at 13. Bowe has been poor enough for the best part of a year. I know that playing in an uncertain Ospreys team hasn't helped but his positioning and lines of running, as well as his hands, have let him down a number of times. I know he was good for the Lions at 13 but every time I've seen him there since he has looked average. An Earls McFadden partnership has the potential to work for a few years if they click and although the may make a few mistakes, I think their weaknesses are overstated.

The back three picks itself, for all my previous criticism of Bowe, he is a class player, Trimble is in excellent form even if worryingly enough he is making a mistake a match.

Kearney is class and has been since he came back from injury, I'm glad he didn't let me down after me going on and on about how his 'poor form' before injury was a load of nonsense. Best full back in the NH.

So that leaves the team; in Green who I'd pick, with bold what I think will be picked.



Healy Best Ross
Poc Ryan
Ferris Sob Heaslip
Murray Sexton
McFadden (D'arcy) Earls
Bowe Kearney Trimble

Replacements; Court Cronin Tuohy (Doc) Pom (Jennings) Reddan Rog Wallace (D'arcy)

I'm assuming Fitz is out due to injury

valjester wrote:
The second row is just a matter of who to partner Poc. This is one of the difficult ones.

I actually think that's fairly easy. Toner has improved beyond recognition and Tuohy and McCarthy have been very consistant. DOC and Cullen have been up and down but have a lot of experience.

For me it has to be Donnacha Ryan, he has been immense for Munster, particularly over the past two weekends. He has to start with POC.

There's an argument for any of the others on the bench. I'd like to see Toner or Tuohy but suspect it will be DOC and if so he'll have to find his vintage form because the others are breathing down his neck.

Its all good in that position though.

roddersm wrote:

valjester wrote:
The second row is just a matter of who to partner Poc. This is one of the difficult ones.

I actually think that's fairly easy. Toner has improved beyond recognition and Tuohy and McCarthy have been very consistant. DOC and Cullen have been up and down but have a lot of experience.

For me it has to be Donnacha Ryan, he has been immense for Munster, particularly over the past two weekends. He has to start with POC.

There's an argument for any of the others on the bench. I'd like to see Toner or Tuohy but suspect it will be DOC and if so he'll have to find his vintage form because the others are breathing down his neck.

Its all good in that position though.

Thats why I'm saying its a difficult position, all of the players are playing well. Even Doc had a decent game at the weekend, but picking him is the conservative choice, which is why its probably they one we'll go for. The others are all starting and performing well so they should be ahead of them.

The main reason I'd choose Ryan is that on the pitch he just seems like an absolute ba***ard. I love the picture from the Munster All Blacks game of him punching one of the All Black second rows. He complement Poc well and you need some absolute nutters in your team. I also loved the camera man from before the Munster Saints game in Thomond just focusing on Ryan's face before the game and Ryan just staring with a sort of rage on his face as if though he was about to kill someone.

Val he is from same place as Sin E. It must be something in the water.

I think Ryan and Tuohy will make an excellent partnership after POC has retired. Tuohy I feel works best with an aggressive, hard-working player who is not afraid to get his hands dirty (Ryan in a nutshell). Tuohy is more athletic and dynamic.

red_stag wrote:Val he is from same place as Sin E. It must be something in the water.

I wonder has Pom any relations from the area because he seems to be in the same mould. And is Dave Foley from there because by all accounts he is an absolute lunatic.

Alan Quinlan and Denis Leamy are from that neck of the woods. And yes Dave Foley is from there too.

I always mix up POM and Ryan. Apart from the fact Ryan is a good 3 inches taller, they both have very similar builds, both look like they have anger problems, and generally wreck havoc all over the pitch. Hope to see both become staples in the Ireland team soon.

red_stag wrote:Val he is from same place as Sin E. It must be something in the water.

..Sin E...now thats the man we want for Ireland, never takes a backward step....

Ryan and O'Connell, with DOC on the bench. For me it's one of the easier calls.

James Coughlan, on foot of his impressive performances all year, has been called into the Ireland senior squad in place of the injured Leo Cullen.

I would've thought it'd make more sense to promote Tuohy or Toner from the Wolfhounds to replace like-for-like, although since there are still places available in the main squad it could be that Deccie is deciding on which one of the two aforementioned players to promote.

Personally, I'm delighted for Coughlan. I don't think he'll make any of the matchday squads but I think he deserves the recognition at least based on his impressive form for Munster.

Coughlan is having a great season and is well deserving of the call up.

It makes sense especially if he is only in the "holding tackle bags" brigade. Ireland will be training in Limerick so no travel costs, readily available and familiar with the training environment.

Exactly and fair play to him but I do not believe he is any closer to selection than Tuohy, Henry, McLaughlin etc

No your right he isn't Geoff. I think that its just a convenient move for all concerned.

I would agree Geoff although I did say to Stag yesterday that I have been mightily impressed by him this season.

Your a canny fellow Rava. You picked up on Conor Murrays over eagerness with ball in hand too.

Im glad that he was recognised anyway. Has replaced John Hayes as our "token underrated player".

Indeed. Very much like Hayes in that there are dozens of articles talking about how great and "unsung" he is. Still, the media must have their simplistic archetypal boxes

Under rated! What! Hugely over rated you mean! For years it was a simple rule of thumb. If the ref penalised Hayes for standing up in the scrum Ireland lost, if he didn't they often won.

Glas a du wrote:Under rated! What! Hugely over rated you mean! For years it was a simple rule of thumb. If the ref penalised Hayes for standing up in the scrum Ireland lost, if he didn't they often won.

Considering we won more often than we lost then clearly it was down to the refs and not Hayes. Its a bit like with Wales you never beat them you only score more points than them...which has happened a lot over the last decade.

Too tall for a tight head.

He was a poor scrummager at the start and at the very end of his career. But he was good for a good few years in the middle. Not good, as in destructive. But good, as in he held the scrum up.

I do laugh at how he's constantly hailed as the great "unsung hero" though. He must be the most lavishly praised "unsung hero" in Irish sporting history. He was beloved by the Irish fans and our rugby pundits too.

I'm half way through writing a song for him just now. Shattered when I heard he hadn't got one devoted to him yet.

Exactly if you have hundreds of thousands of rugby fans chatting about how underrated you are...

Of course he was never really rated outside Ireland, and for good reason. He never could really attack opposition scrums, he never was particularly good at scrummaging. Everything said about how good his lineout skills and workrate were is true, but you know when you go straight to those areas when discussing a tighthead there's a problem.

Still an honest to God legend of Irish rugby. Sometimes its about character, loyalty and hard work rather than mere technical ability that defines how you're remembered. We owe him a huge debt of gratitude.