Pick Your Ireland Squad for the Six Nations

First topic message reminder :

Pick your squad for Ireland in the Six Nations, and you could win the chance to be in a long, boring, meaningless argument with Sin E and/or rodders. Call now!

Here's my effort;

PROPS
Cian Healy, Mike Ross, Tom Court, Tony Buckley, Paddy McAllister
HOOKERS
Rory Best, Sean Cronin, Damien Varley
LOCKS
Paul O'Connell, Donnacha Ryan, Donncha O'Callaghan, Dan Tuohy, Devin Toner
BACKROW
Stephen Ferris, Sean O'Brien, Jamie Heaslip, Peter O'Mahony, Chris Henry
SCRUM HALF
Eoin Reddan, Conor Murray, Isaac Boss
OUTHALF
Ronan O'Gara, Johnny Sexton
CENTRES
Gordon D'Arcy, Paddy Wallace, Fergus McFadden, Darren Cave, Keith Earls
BACK THREE
Luke Fitzgerald, Andrew Trimble, Tommy Bowe, Rob Kearney, Gavin Duffy

Captain; Paul O'Connell
Vice-Captains; Rory Best, Ronan O'Gara, Johnny Sexton, Jamie Heaslip

Additional Players to feature for Ireland A but not the squad for the tournament proper;

Stephen Archer, Mike Sherry, Shane Jennings, Mike McCarthy, Paul Marshall, Ian Madigan, Nevin Spence, Simon Zebo, Craig Gilroy

While the rest of the world and those outside Munster (clearly) underate him..there is only one point to consider....For Ireland the first two names on the team sheet were

BOD
Hayes
Both indispensible. Without Hayes we would not have done so well in the 6ns. With him we won a few TCs and a GS.

People really do have short memories.

No, I thought he was over rated at the time.

No, I agree with that entire post DOD.

The reason BOD was first on the sheet was that he would walk into any NH side. As to Hayes, there was no competition. Only Munster would make a tall man a tight head

Notch, the lineout is pretty essential for a prop. Not many guys are as good at one man lifts as Hayes was.

How many games did Ireland win off the back of a dominant lineout in the 00's? Looooaaaaads. Hayes had a lot to do with that.

It's true he had no competition in Ireland and he wasn't a World Class all round prop. But it was his purity of effort and his effectiveness that made him popular not his technical ability. He never destroyed international looseheads. His job was to just keep the scrum up. And he did it non stop for a decade. He also tended to cry during the anthems which made us like him even more.

Notch wrote:No, I agree with that entire post DOD.

Me too.

As has been said he was fundimental to the line out. The best lifter ever maybe?

Legend.

*yawn*

Form your own opinions. What are you sheep? (and yes I should know!)

eh, cough, cough, sorry to throw a few stats at you

According to the official RBS 6Nations STATS for the Grand Slam, Ireland scored something like 75% of their tries from the lineout. In their analysis, they attributed Ireland's success to the lineout (and of course a really good defence).

And 1 missed kick.

And he ia a softly spoken, modest man, who never gave anything less than 100%, but who was never happier than when he was on his farm blah blah blah.

I'm not questioning his undoubted contribution to Irish rugby; I just feel that he has been feted quite enough, ti be honest. In part because he was a lazy journo's wet dream.

Glas a du wrote:And 1 missed kick.

I think ROG missed more than 1 in that campaign - his kicking (particularly against England) was pure rubbish for him.

Don Alfonso wrote:And he ia a softly spoken, modest man, who never gave anything less than 100%, but who was never happier than when he was on his farm blah blah blah.

I'm not questioning his undoubted contribution to Irish rugby; I just feel that he has been feted quite enough, ti be honest. In part because he was a lazy journo's wet dream.

And he never gave them interviews. Think he has done about 2 in his life. One with Cathy Sheridan in the Irish Times (and she happens to be married to the Munster PRO)! He gave a bit of a one to Woody as well for the BBC. Thats about it!

Glas, it's not so much a case of 'forming our own opinions' as recognising amazing service to the jersey and a highly successful international career- he may have had some technical deficiencies in the scrum throughout his career (he had a purple period in which we were most successful though) but he has a special place in the hearts of most Ireland fans, myself included.

Thomond wrote:Notch, the lineout is pretty essential for a prop. Not many guys are as good at one man lifts as Hayes was.

Jesus, you write a post highlighting the positives of a player and you still get jumped on

I agree with you. No-one is disputing that. The scrum is pretty essential for a prop too, but even at his best he was limited to a defensive role. Although I do remember one penalty try we got in Paris with himself, Horan and Best. He is a legend of Irish Rugby, I truly admire him, but let's be realistic about his ability as a scrummaging tighthead- it was never a weapon we had in our armoury.

Ah the voice of independence.

For what it's worth he was a very committed but somewhat limited player. He may have been good at lifting POC, but the quid pro quo In the scrum did not stack up if there was a competent referee. However I understand his folk hero status and the romance of the full time farmer playing over 100 times for his country and going about his business like an old fashioned gent. Good on him, good on Ireland, but don't expect his weaknesses to be glossed over by anybody else.

Feckless Rogue wrote:How many games did Ireland win off the back of a dominant lineout in the 00's? Looooaaaaads. Hayes had a lot to do with that.

It's true he had no competition in Ireland and he wasn't a World Class all round prop. But it was his purity of effort and his effectiveness that made him popular not his technical ability. He never destroyed international looseheads. His job was to just keep the scrum up. And he did it non stop for a decade. He also tended to cry during the anthems which made us like him even more.

Yep, pretty much it in a nutshell. That's exactly how I feel.

Sin é wrote:

Glas a du wrote:And 1 missed kick.

I think ROG missed more than 1 in that campaign - his kicking (particularly against England) was pure rubbish for him.

I suspect you know I was talking about Stephen Jones' failure to spoil Paddy Wallace's day.

Glas a du wrote:Ah the voice of independence.

For what it's worth he was a very committed but somewhat limited player. He may have been good at lifting POC, but the quid pro quo In the scrum did not stack up if there was a competent referee. However I understand his folk hero status and the romance of the full time farmer playing over 100 times for his country and going about his business like an old fashioned gent. Good on him, good on Ireland, but don't expect his weaknesses to be glossed over by anybody else.

I'm not glossing over his weaknesses. He was never anywhere near the list of best tightheads around when he was playing, sentiment and green-tinted specs aside.

Glas, it's not so much a case of 'forming our own opinions' as recognising amazing service to the jersey

I do recognise it of course I do, any genuine rugby man will have a little place in his heart for John Hayes and in a funny way the standing up in the scrum and getting away with it so often is a big part of that. He's a pretty endearing sort of bloke anyway and yes I will call him a legend.

Sorry Ligind.

Glas a du wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Glas a du wrote:And 1 missed kick.

I think ROG missed more than 1 in that campaign - his kicking (particularly against England) was pure rubbish for him.

I suspect you know I was talking about Stephen Jones' failure to spoil Paddy Wallace's day.

I like Stephen Jones - I don't think he deserves any blame. If anyone does, its the tanned one who didn't have the bottle to take it.

Aye. Him scoring for Ireland against Scotland is one of my favourite tries ever; just a massive grin on his face. He enjoyed that one.

Blame? I don't blame him, I respect him. Only a true gent wouldn't have tried too hard to deny Ireland their first Grand Slam since 1948 with Jack Kyle in the stand.

Notch wrote:
I'm not glossing over his weaknesses. He was never anywhere near the list of best tightheads around when he was playing, sentiment and green-tinted specs aside.

I think he was one of the best. He won 100+ caps in the most successful period ever for Irish rugby, was at the helm of a Munster team that won 2 HEC's and made 4 finals and went on 2 Lions tours. He's up there with the best in my book even if his scrummaging was exposed from time to time.

Rodders, just a quick one, did da Bull earn a Lions test cap or was he always a dirt-tracker? Btw, no shame at ll in that, other great/very good players have not got Lions caps

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Rodders, just a quick one, did da Bull earn a Lions test cao or was he always a dirt-tracker? Btw, no shame at ll in that, other great/very good players have not got Lions caps

I though I was being incendiary!

Glas a du wrote:

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Rodders, just a quick one, did da Bull earn a Lions test cao or was he always a dirt-tracker? Btw, no shame at ll in that, other great/very good players have not got Lions caps

I though I was being incendiary!

No explosive material was used in the making of this post, trust me

Oh no, none at all!

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Rodders, just a quick one, did da Bull earn a Lions test cap or was he always a dirt-tracker? Btw, no shame at ll in that, other great/very good players have not got Lions caps

Two Lions Caps Asbo.

He was a member of the British and Irish Lions squad in their tour to New Zealand in 2005 and played in the warm up test match vs Argentina.

On 18 June 2009, Hayes was called up to the British and Irish Lions squad in South Africa as a replacement for the injured Euan Murray. He played in the final test match of the tour.

Stand up for the agrarian

Brilliant, thanks Rav - you've inspired me to a thread

He will be the sort of bloke farming folk will talk about for generations. There was a farmer from Neath that played for Wales in the 50's Rhys Stephens. The legend is that his father never made much money selling milk as Rhys would drink most of it. I remember being told about him in hushed tones when my father spotted him in a farm sale. He was a strong bloke then, well in his 70's.

The Bull's one and only try for Munster. Fair play to him, it was Toulouse

He gets a bit of slagging about he was 'resting' and barely staggered up to stumble over the the line.

That was Munster first big win in Europe - H Cup semi in 2000.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFJX3JbO3vU

Edit: think he might have scored one other try. Can't remember when though.

That's a props try fair play!

Glas interesting reading about Rhys his father also captained Wales and became president of the WRU

My dad's great aunt was a cook in their house. My dad started playing rugby in hand me down shorts and boots after Rhys.

Change the record Glas, no one really gives a flying fornication what you think of John Hayes, especially not a Welshman ( look you). Stick to dreaming of when Wales were great (allegedly).

Your absolutely right DOD.

Coughlan called up to replace Cullen! Is Kidney taking the p***?

I know he's played very well recently but surely in a situation where someone drops out we should look to a younger player. If he was calling up a back-rower surely Henry and O'Mahony would have been better options for now and the future and Tuhoy or Toner as a direct replacement in the second row.

I'm gradually turning to hoping that we have a poor 6 Nations so we can get someone else in. This is ridiculous!

ROG was interviewed on Morning Ireland (RTE Radio) this morning - asked about rivarly between himself and Sexton (as usual). Mentioned that there was a chance that they might be both in the team at some stage.

Is ROG putting that out now to keep Wales guessing?

Deep breaths 1F ....

Toner, Tuohy, O'Mahoney and Henry all have a good chance of getting called up if they perform well. Kidney probably doesn't want to disrupt the wolfhounds preperation by pulling people around.

Coughlan is a fair enough shout to take Cullens place, neither will be likely to make the matchday squad and its just recognition for Coughlan's form to be training with the senior squad.

1F'sgonnagetya! wrote:Coughlan called up to replace Cullen! Is Kidney taking the p***?

I know he's played very well recently but surely in a situation where someone drops out we should look to a younger player. If he was calling up a back-rower surely Henry and O'Mahony would have been better options for now and the future and Tuhoy or Toner as a direct replacement in the second row.

I'm gradually turning to hoping that we have a poor 6 Nations so we can get someone else in. This is ridiculous!

No, he isn't taking the urine. Nagle (a young lock) is bumped up from the additionals. Coughlan (lives in Munster) is now an 'additional' as they need 4 locks for training.

Tuohy & Toner actually get to play a game at the weekend for the Wolfhounds and have a far better chance of making the actual 6Ns squad (which will be picked next week) than Coughlan will have.

Jeebus didn't realise the Wolfhounds game was so soon! Is it televised?

Tell you what....I'm starting to get quite excited about the 6N!

It is televised - SKY I think

[quote="roddersm"]Deep breaths 1F ....

Thank Rodders, I needed that!

I do think he's added to the pressure of having a successful 6 Nations. This squad seems to be picked for the her and now and not really with much thought to the future. If not this squad, when is he going to get the younger players in? Surely not on the tour to NZ because we'd get hammered!

I am not calling for every player over 31/32 to be out but we need more thought to the future!

I understand were you are coming from 1F but let's see what happens eh? Normally I'd agree but there's a lot of guys performing, young and old.

Expectations are high given the provincial games so I'm willing to give Kidney the benefit of the doubt, at least until after the French game.

I expect,.... and demand, to see far better and and more consistant performances than last season though, and that we have learnt from the RWC.

I agree! I'm going to write him up a bloody good demand letter right this moment:

Dec! (can I call you Dec?)....

DO NOT FAIL US! The noose is being already tested on a suitable dead tree in the middle of a dramatic looking bleak field. You have been warned!
Signed, the 606 Mob.

He should pick for the here and now and not the future for 2 reasons.

The Next World Cup is not till 2015 - don't even think about it till the summer tour of 2014. Until then pick the best team - if a up coming player is good enough they will make the break through.

The seedings for the 2015 WC will be based on this December rankings.
Staying in the top 8 is very important to avoid the proverbial ' group of death'

Will the Wolfhounds game be on TG4?