Coaching Advice For Andy's Opponents

First topic message reminder :

For this years Australian Open Andy Murray is getting a little extra coaching advice. It is only fair that his opponents should have a little advice too.

The first bit is obvious although it is surprising how many players refuse to do this against Murray. Hit to the forehand, hit to the forehand and hit to the forehand again. Also after doing that for a bit be brave and hit a slow paced ball to the centre of the court (just be sure it is to the forehand).

The second bit of advice will involve watching three videos.

The first is Murray's first set against Kukushkin in Brisbane this year. This is how Murray might act. If he does so take no notice. He is not going to retire injured and give you the match so don't get your hopes up. The temper tantrums he is having will ultimately benefit him and not you if you take too much notice. Watch it a few times if it helps so you won't be too startled or surprised when you are faced with the real thing.

The second is Murray serving at break point down in the 4th set of the US Open final against Nadal. He chooses that moment to change his wristbands slowing up play and attempting to disrupt his opponant. (Well done Nadal for staying strong on this occasion). Expect the unexpected. It may be tempting to do something similar yourself but resist you would never be allowed to forget about it.

The third is Nadal being interviewed at Wimbledon (in 2010 I think?) after beating Murray again. The interviewer says "But Murray is nice. Wouldn't you like to let him win?" It might be tempting (especially if the press usually show little interest in you) to bask in the attention of the British Press prior to your match with Murray. Don't! Stay well away. They will only tell you how nice Andy is and then pick up all your faults and write about them. Don't read anything either. Remember you are just as nice as Murray or maybe even nicer. If you are still unsure about this ask your Mum...

After watching the third video I have some specific advice for two of Murray's potential opponants

Rafa. I know you have 10 shiny trophies and poor Andy has none... but don't even think about it!

Nole. You are cute, funny, intelligent, witty, talented, beautiful and loved. Ask your mum to confirm this. Whatever you do keep well away from the British press. You will not like it when they tell you that there is someone that beats you in every category.

You may think I have missed someone out with specific advice. That potential opponant doesn't require advice from me. He knows exactly how to handle the British press and is definately not unsettled by anything they say.

Finally whatever you do don't look at Andy's box. The power, emotion and hope emiting from it may decieve you into thinking you have to beat a whole team and not just the single player accross the net. It will also be very scary! You have been warned. Instead focus on your box. Your mum and that nice couple you met in the restaurant last night that you gave tickets to. They are 100% behind you. They know your time has come. You will gain incredible strength just from their presence.

Good Luck!

I am a Brit and want Murray to do well because of that. I am not a particular fan of him as an individual tennis player. It will be quite a coup if he beats Djoko, I agree, but he had a couple of good matches against him last year after the Aus Open so it's not impossible.

Well done Mikhail!

Before you face Andy on Monday I'm going to give you a little praise. Listen but then put it to the back of your mind as too much pride will hinder your chances of a victory.

You played well in that first set against Murray in Brisbane. You have the ability to beat Murray you just need more consistancy. Don't think you don't need to watch that first set on video because you were there. Please watch it as it will give you confidence.

Today you had a great victory against a higher ranked opponent. It was impressive the way you came back to win in the 5th despite losing the 3rd and 4th set. I was impressed with your mental strength. Many players would get discouraged and lose in such a situation. This match was excellent experience. A 5 set match is very different to a 3 set match. Its difficult for any player to maintain a high level of play throughout. Whatever happens stay focussed.

When you play Andy chances are you will be playing in the biggest stadium you have ever played in. You deserve to be there.

Now reality. When you walk on to play your match have a look around but then try to focus on the court alone and your box for support. Make full use of the warm up. The court is of course the same size as any other court you have played on but it might feel different at first because of the huge surrounding space.

During the match remember - Forehand, Andy will not retire, expect the unexpected (Don't get angry as you may lose more than a single point if you do), don't look at Andy's box, get strength from your family and friends, you are nice and deserve to win. Also I hope you have been avoiding the press and not reading any papers.

Good Luck!

I really have no idea who you are trying to convince - yourself? If he has the ability to beat Murray as you claim then why is he ranked no.91 or something in the world?

Yes today he had what was a great victory for him in the context of his career as it meant it is the furthest he has ever got in a slam event. However, he threw away a two set lead against a debilitated Monfils who was stiffer than a corpse with his back injury so in that respect there was nothing particularly remarkable about the win. More remarkable was the fact that Monfils was demobilised and two sets down and almost came back to win.

Very interesting you label Kukushkin nice. I'd hazard a guess this is the first time in 606v2 history you have made that observation and surprise surprise it comes two days before he plays Murray. I am not sure what in heavens name you mean about him not reading the papers as I am sure the Australian Post, Sydney Advertiser etc etc will be more focussed on Tomic and Hewitt than anything else.

CaladonianCraig

I am giving coaching advice to Kukushkin so of course I have to give him confidence. He did take a set off Murray just a couple of weeks ago. I'm sure if you were his coach you would remind him of that?

I think coming back from two sets to love down is very impressive. But I think winning the first two sets, then losing the next two sets... and then coming back to win in the 5th set is more impressive. Most players fold in that situation. Credit to Kukushkin for that.

To understand why I have reminded Kukushkin that he is "nice" please look at the original article. As for media interest I was of course referring to the British media. Of course the Australian media will have little interest in the Kukushkin Murray match.

Somehow I don't think Kukushkin will be reading the British press. Does he even speak English?

Y I Man wrote:Somehow I don't think Kukushkin will be reading the British press. Does he even speak English?

That will be a big positive if its true.

So you are trying to deny Monfils was demobilised with a back injury and needed treatment throughout. When two sets to love down the commentators were gobsmacked there was no handshake from Monfils such was his immobility yet he still came within a whisker of coming back to win. As for your 'coaching' give it up eh? Your coaching has hardly benefited three players at the Australian Open so far has it? And as for the media side of things what are you getting at? Are you seriously suggesting the British media influence and terrorise opponents into getting beaten by Murray? If so you have serious hang-up problems with Murray that need addressing.

CC I'm yet to be convinced Andy's opponents are somehow checking out this forum on tips from hawkeye on how to beat him.

It is fair to comment though on his opponents' collective chances given the media's obsession with his new coaching set-up with Lendl. Castle was soon in on the act eulogising about the "inspired choice" of Lendl as coach as if it came out of the blue when it's been touted by all and sundry for weeks. Others have called it the X-Factor for Andy's game and some even probably likening to the second coming of the messiah.

The reality is that, so far, Andy's looked in total control of his emotions and dominated all his opponents. With the exception of one set from Harrison they haven't exactly caused him much trouble , although, of course, it's still questionable how much that is down to Andy's play and how much due to them being no great shakes as opposition.

He looks as if he's got one more relatively straight forward round profviding he doesn't suddenly throw in a wobbly performance. Then it's in all likelihood Tsonga and things get a little bit tougher. That'll be when Lendl earns his money and it'll be interesting to see how Andy's new positive outlook survives that one.

Of course (so far) the opposition has been no great shakes but the same can be said for all of the top players. However, it hasn't stopped people drooling over Djokovic's form so far has it? Or Federer's for that matter so that being the case Murray deserves his credit as well especially if you consider that Andy's opponent today was the highest ranked that any of the top four have yet faced. As for the media speculation is that Andy's fault? Of course not. It is the media itself who is to blame as Andy quietly goes about his business. As for throwing in a wobbly performance - well the last time Andy did that (when fit) in a slam and lost I'd say was the US Open 2009 against Cilic. A long time ago that.

Fair point about Andy cutting out the wobbly performances. That's one factor that has allowed him to reach the semis minimum in his last few slams. You'd have to agree then that Lendl's effects on his tennis will be much easier to assess from the quarters onwards.

In all honesty I really do not think we will see any real benefit of Lendl working with Murray for a month or two I'd say. That sort of thing will take time I think unless Lendl hits the right notes with Andy and his mental approach to matches against the big three and the big points against the big three.

CaledonianCraig

I don't think you will find much drooling over Djokovic, Federer or Murray here! (definately not Nadal as I can't remember anyone writing anything nice about him anywhere on 606v2 let alone "drool"). This article is about coaching advice for Andy's opponants. Do you have any tips for Mikhail?

Yes. Lose gracefully unlike those who wish to see Andy lose.

CC got to ask you this one.

What are you going to do if and when Andy wins a slam in way of celebration?

Doing a streak around Edinburgh Castle might not be a good idea given the amount of time the naked rambler walking to John O'Groats has spent in custody up there.

CaledonianCraig wrote:Yes. Lose gracefully unlike those who wish to see Andy lose.

What! Your advice to Mikhail is to lose? Why should he deliberately lose so that Andy doesn't. I'm sorry but it is against the rules for him to even consider doing that.

At least he doesn't speak English (according to Y I Man) so he won't be reading your advice. Phew!

No streaks from me. If it ever happens I'll be over the moon and have a quiet whisky to celebrate or something like that. But that is all ifs and buts at the moment. I am just sitting back and enjoying the great moments he has already provided reaching three slam finals - unheard of from a British men's tennis player since the 1930's.

Please don't put words into my mouth. I asked if he could speak English, not that he didn't.

hawkeye wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:Yes. Lose gracefully unlike those who wish to see Andy lose.

What! Your advice to Mikhail is to lose? Why should he deliberately lose so that Andy doesn't. I'm sorry but it is against the rules for him to even consider doing that.

At least he doesn't speak English (according to Y I Man) so he won't be reading your advice. Phew!

I see you missed out the word gracefully there eh. But even better he won't be reading your advice considering what it done to Ryan Harrison, Roger Vasselin and Michael Llodra.

Y I Man wrote:Please dont put words into my mouth. I asked if he could speak English, not that he did.

Oh! Now I am worried. What if he sees CaladonianCraigs advice? Do you think people will be suspicious if Kukushkin loses to Murray on Monday?

hawkeye wrote:

Y I Man wrote:Please dont put words into my mouth. I asked if he could speak English, not that he did.

Oh! Now I am worried. What if he sees CaladonianCraigs advice? Do you think people will be suspicious if Kukushkin loses to Murray on Monday?

I think they will be more suspicious if he doesn't. You are still missing the gracefully part from Craigs comment - the bit that changes the meaning. Seems to be a habit of yours

If I was going to give Kukushkin any advice it would be to have fun. He has done really well to get this far, even with an injured opponent it is not a given and not all can capitalise on these opportunities. Murray was very complimentary about his game in his post match interview after the Llodra match. It will be a big match on the big stage and Kukushin should enjoy the experience.

carriege4 and CaladonianCraig

When Caladonian Craig advised Kukushkin that he should lose "gracefully" I have to admit it was the "lose" part of the advice that I was particuarly shocked by. No coach should advise a player to lose. By gracefully do you mean that if he does lose to Murray he should say nice complementary things about Murray and his play after the loss? I don't see why he has to help Murray in his next match by boosting his confidence in this way. Of course he may choose to do this but that is the last thing he should be thinking about before the match.

Anyway I think you are both wrong to think this would be good coaching advice for Mikhail. In fact I have a sneaky suspicion you don't really have his best interests in mind. If Murray manages to get to the semi final and is facing Djokovic I can guarantee you would feel shocked and a little disapointed if you found out that Lendl had advised Murray to "lose gracefully"!

Mikhail you are a professional tennis player. Your job is to try your best to win. As I have explained this is something you have shown you can do.

I feel a little sorry for Kukushkin. I have just learnt that he is coached by his wife. Not necessarily because she is best qualified for the job but because she is the cheapest option. I have also noticed the lack of advice for him in the media. This is a big contrast to (for example) the amount of free coaching advice given to potential opponents of Nadal. I also suspect that if an article appeared on 606v2 entitled "Coaching Advice For Rafa's Opponants". There would be many who would offer a few suggestions.

But poor Mikhail just has his wife, me and legendkiller who was also kind enough to offer a little advice (including "punish the second serve" IMO great advice. I'm a little jealous I didn't think of this myself...)

Is no one else willing to help?

Lose gracefully is a valuable trait and one that people need to learn. Not just tennis players but posters on message boards. Look at the hassle Berdych got today by refusing to shake hands and he won. Graceless posters are those that try to paint Murray's success in tennis as being down to the British media mafia terrorising players into losing for him. Hold on a mo is this the SAME British press that concocted a lie against Murray way back when he was a teenager in order to paint him in a bad light? Of course it is.

CaladonianCraig

Of course losing gracefully is a valuable trait. But its not going to help a player win a match. I'll say it again... If Murray makes a semi final with Djokovic do you think Llendl's pep talk before the match will consist of the sole advice "lose gracefully"? I'm certainly not going to give that advice to Kukushkin!

Why do you think its "graceless" to have empathy for the underdog?

I think the media can be manipulative. Kukushkin doesn't have the huge entourage that Murray has to advise and protect him. Thats why he should keep well away. He has enough on his plate with his next match without worrying about the press.

Still "milking" this thread hawkeye,isn't it about time for something new.

How about some tips on how to beat the World's No.1

hawkeye wrote:CaladonianCraig

Of course losing gracefully is a valuable trait. But its not going to help a player win a match. I'll say it again... If Murray makes a semi final with Djokovic do you think Llendl's pep talk before the match will consist of the sole advice "lose gracefully"? I'm certainly not going to give that advice to Kukushkin!

Why do you think its "graceless" to have empathy for the underdog?

I think the media can be manipulative. Kukushkin doesn't have the huge entourage that Murray has to advise and protect him. Thats why he should keep well away. He has enough on his plate with his next match without worrying about the press.

Eh?? Where on earth did I say it was graceless to have empathy with the underdog? Not that that is your trait here though as no doubt if Murray reaches the semis you won't have any grace for the underdog there of that I can guarantee. Kukushkin is actually very well off as far as the media are concerned. Nobody is going to crucify him if he loses as always happens with the British media with Murray also I'd say it is Andy who gets the rough deal with the media so it is staggering that you honestly believe Kukushkin has anything whatsoever to concern himself with the media at all. Never heard Harrison or Vasselin or any of Andy's opponents from previous big matches saying that they were in anyway haringued or harassed by the British media anyway so why are you inventing it?

hawkeye wrote:carriege4

I think you must have mis understood the quote. Ryan Harrison was accused of "towering arragance" for refusing to talk to the media. Personally I think to accuse Harrison in this very strong way is unfair to say the least. It is in the circumstances the best thing that he could do.

I can understand that Murray fans want him to win. He is obviously a huge favourite against Harrison. Do you really think Murray needs any extra advantages against a first round opponant?

But you must understand that Murray's opponants would be well advised to stay well away from all the interest surrounding him. In the past they havn't been able to resist the temptation to get some second hand attention themselves and in my opinion it does them no good. The press will play down their chances and maybe even throw in a few insults to put them in their place (eg "towering arragance").

Also it should be remembered that the British tennis media is perhaps the stongest as this quote from Steve Tignor demonsrates.

Murray’s was the most heavily attended presser; a natural occurrence,
considering that the U.K. is the only country with something approaching
a significant year-round tennis press corps.

http://blogs.tennis.com/thewrap/2012/01/niggles-and-whatnot.html

Its something a lower ranked player with little media experience should be very wary of.

CaladonianCraig

This is a post from earlier were I try to explain why Andy's opponants should stay away from the British media. (you can find the link for "the towering arragance" earlier in this thread)

Of course you may disagree.

I've also tried to explain why I think Andy's opponents could do with some extra coaching advice. See original article.

We all know that Murray is the favourite for his match with Kukushkin so don't worry he will probably still win whatever his coach sorry... wife says.

Towering arrogance?


http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2012/jan/14/andy-murray-ivan-lendl-australian-open-tennis?newsfeed=true

If that is the report you are claiming to be towering arrogance then I can only presume you have difficulty reading and interpreting. All that report does is look ahead to the Australian Open and look at Lendl becoming his coach. Hardly, going to put the wind of fear into anyone. I cannot read anything in that report that says Murray will thrash everyone and stroll away with the title can you? That would be arrogance. All it does is give us a report filled with anticipation for another slam showing from Andy and going by last year's record then that is not being too over-expectant.

Extra coaching advice? From who? Rusedski I take it - who has not coached a player before either like Lendl but unlike Lendl he failed to win slams. I rest my case on that front.

hawkeye wrote:
I feel a little sorry for Kukushkin. I have just learnt that he is coached by his wife. Not necessarily because she is best qualified for the job ..........

Such nepotism! I'm sure Greg was available - and cheap. You can stop feeling sorry for him now.

Seriously, there is no further advice to be given. Target the forehand, punish the second serve & ignore any outbursts at the other end. Watch out for the body shots maybe.

Good luck Kuku - you are going to need it. Even that is unlikely to be enough.

Craig, it was Harrison who was accused of towering arrogance by refusing requests to talk to the media before his match with Murray.

I think Hawkeye explains this earlier in the thread.

And what on earth has that got to do with anything? Has Harrison lodged a complaint for intimidation or any other players Andy has played in the past citing the British media as intimidating them? Of course not because it is worthless paper talk. No more, no less. Instead hawkeye is basing a newspaper report on a reason to try to post another negative article about Murray. 15 and counting. Anyway I am away to discuss tennis now. TTFN.

I think Yvonne summed things up pretty well. Does this need to continue for now. Maybe it could be updated when Murray reaches the semis.

If Murray gets to the semis, unfortunately his opponent won't need any coaching advice to beat him.

Craig, even from a short time here I can get Hawkeye's agenda. Surely most people take an irrational dislike to someone every now & then - it's allowed.

I like Murray btw - but don't get me started on Wozniacki.

CaladonianCraig

Please re-read the comments in this article. I will just be repeating what has been said already.

YvonneT

Ha ha! Poor Mikhail has no choice but to resort to nepotism. Greg may have been available (are you sure?) and cheap. However cheap is a relative term and I believe his wife wasn't charging at all. Therefore unless Greg is offering his coaching services for free he would be expensive...

I'm sure he will appreciate your advice. He now has his wife, me, you and legendkiller all helping. As long as he doesn't look at Andy's box he will be fine.

I don't want to "nit pick" when you have been one of the few to offer your help but... Do you think it might be a good idea to leave out that final "Even that is unlikely to be enough". IMO Mikhiel would benefit more from a simple "good luck". What do you think?

break_in_the_fifth wrote:I think Yvonne summed things up pretty well. Does this need to continue for now. Maybe it could be updated when Murray reaches the semis.

Murray has three potential opponents that could all prevent him from reaching the semi's. This is not the place for saying they have no chance!

legendkillar wrote:Hawkeye,

Here is a much better analysis of advice.

1) Attack from the start. Out of the 12 defeats Murray suffered 92.7% were after he lost the first set. This shows that if opponents go after Murray from the off and secure the first set, there is a high % chance they will get the victory.

2) Punish the second serve. Andy has one of the lowest points on second serve in the rankings. I believe he is below 50 in the rankings.

3) Guard the second serve. Andy in 2011 converted 56% of Break points on his opponents second serve. Andy is regarded as one of the best returners of serve in the game. On hardcourts this is increased to 57%.

4) Play to Murray FH. This is widely stated. I cannot find any figures. The top 3 have a tendancy to use this tactic.

Actually No.1 is a misuse of the Stats. Just because Andy's defeats have nearly always come after he's lost the first set (and why anyone thinks that's surprising, particularly in 3 set matches is beyond me) this doesn't mean "there is a high % chance they will get the victory". Just ask Harrison, Del Potro at the Canadian Masters of 2009 or any other number of players lulled into a false sense of security by the play of easily the worst player of a first set in the Top 10 and hence a notoriously slow starter

Yeah I guess you'd need to look at how many matches Andy has actually been beaten in where he's lost the first set to get a usable percentage for his opponents chance of victory.

YvonneT wrote:Surely most people take an irrational dislike to someone every now & then - it's allowed.

Actually I don't think it is 'allowable', because once you get into the 'like' and 'dislike' culture - when talking about personalities, it clouds a persons judgement when it comes to discussing them. It can be difficult. I 'like' all my staff and would go for a drink and spend company with any of them (not certain it's mutaully felt ) but I still have to be constructive and measured when discussing issues etc

And here we have the problem with Hawkeye. Such is his/hers quest to write article after article about Murray, due to their dislike, we have a classic illustration of dodgy judgement. Murray's forehand is no longer much of a weakness against those below the Top 4. As Frew McMillan said, surely the best summariser we have in the media and far better than Hawkeye, he'd noted (since the US Open) how consistent it was an how often Andy chose to use it.

I'm afraid this advice was valid a year ago - not now

break_in_the_fifth wrote:Yeah I guess you'd need to look at how many matches Andy has actually been beaten in where he's lost the first set to get a usable percentage for his opponents chance of victory.

Wasn't 4 out the first 5 victories against Fed after coming back from a set down? Might have been 3 - but illustrates the point. I'm convinced that Andy's mindset is such that he often uses the first set as 'experimentation' against opponents outside the Top 10 - not in an arrogant sort of way, but because he has so many different ways to beat these players and hence entices them to play their best game early

Very dangerous of course as not only does it mean you might not be able to 'switch on' should you be up a good front runner, it means that being on top from the start is 'alien' to him when he plays his close rivals - something, particularly against the Top 2 that is absolutely essential

banbrotam

Thank you for that!

Mikhail. Concentrate in that first set. Andy could well be vulnerable.

And the result the same as usual.

First set win against Murray more times than not = subsequent defeat

This is cool, a Nadal fan v Murray fan thread.

This must e what it's like reading the endless Fedal threads.

sportslover wrote:Still "milking" this thread hawkeye,isn't it about time for something new.

How about some tips on how to beat the World's No.1

Injure him.

bogbrush wrote:This is cool, a Nadal fan v Murray fan thread.

This must e what it's like reading the endless Fedal threads.

Nah "weak era" has yet to be mentioned.

Or head 2 head.

Bad Luck Mikhail.

They were tricky conditions. I feel a lttle responsible so sorry. In an effort to concentrate on coaching I forgot about the physical side. I know your wife is a bit busy and you may not be able to pay her more (but she is your wife so you might be able to persuade her?) but do you think she could take on the role of physical trainer as well as coach? I believe there are some good books about this subject in the library...

Also I know CaladonianCraig told you to lose "gracefully" but I hope you didn't go over the top in praise of Murray's excellent play unless you made him hit a couple of forehands.

banbrotam wrote:First set win against Murray more times than not = subsequent defeat

That's true of every player who's ever played. Laver was/is best at recovering from losing the first set and even he lost more often than he won.

Some advice for Nishikori - maybe playing your mixed doubles later today after playing two 5 setters & a 4 setter in singles isn't the best idea. Don't listen to Hawkeye who's not really telling you how tough it's going to be to beat Andy. You are going to need all your energy for the quarter final.

Oh and don't look to your former coach Brad Gilbert for help - despite what Hawkeye will tell you of Andy's terrible temperament, Brad still seems to have a soft spot for him.

Be warned! Good luck Kei.

YvonneT

I believe Kei may be more interested in talking about his win over Tsonga in the 4th round and how great it is to be representing his country in the quarter finals of a slam than discussing tactics on how to beat Murray. What can be made of that?

I didn't know that he played mixed doubles after his win over Tsonga. I too am not sure that it was entirely wise. I think you must have misunderstood me if you thought I was telling Murray's opponants that a win would be easy. This is a slam! No matches are easy.

I was also unaware that Brad Gilbert was Nishikori's coach. Do you think he will be telling Kei how nice Andy is and how he deserves to win a slam? If so this is not good. I can hardly advise Kei not to talk to his own coach! When he looks to his box for support from Gilbert he might just see him smiling fondly at Andy.

In the circumstances my advice to Kei may have to consist of a simple "Good Luck"

I don't know if anyone saw this about Kukushkin. Instead of providing much needed coaching advice on the night before his match with Murray his wife was sorting out hotel rooms...

Mikhail Kukushkin— who, with Anastasia, his wife and coach, had spent much
of Sunday night trying to find a room after they could not extend the stay
at their original hotel —

From the Times (PPV)

Any wise words before tomorrow's SF?

reckoner wrote:Any wise words before tomorrow's SF?

Play only at 50% of Nole's normal level, saving himself for the final on Sunday?