36 to Glaws?

http://www.thisisleicestershire.co.uk/story-14995051-detail/story.html

http://www.thisisgloucestershire.co.uk/story-14994698-detail/story.html

Fantastic news for Glaws and a real signal of intent. It also means Glaws will have a very impressive English backline. It sounds like the deal is as good as done and I'm delighted if that's the case! It's nice to steal one of Tigers players for a change too!

Fair play HKC, not a bad signing but I hear his mates with Moody so who knows? maybe Bath might pull the rug from Glaws feet yet.

We can share HERSH, we'll have him now and you can have him when he's ready for his pension!

Disastrous news for Tigers' fans. Leicester I think have only ever played him at ten out of emergency expediency - but clearly they are in no position to keep him in its salary policy/wage cap.

Good luck to the boy. Great talent and I hope he knows which side his bread is buttered.

That's a bit of a body blow for Tigers, sure Allen is a tidy player and first choice now but Twelvetrees is really full of potential. Think he could be an impressive player.

Portnoy I don't think it has anything to do with salary, its about an assurance of playing at 12. Tigers couldn't guarantee it, whereas as we're losing EFS we need a 12. We've got more than enough cover at 13 and our 10 options should be solved shortly too.

Good boy, Billy! Trinder and 36 pairing up is a mouth-watering prospect!

I was just about to point out that it was only 34 to Glaws.

Then the penny dropped.

Could be a brilliant move for all involved (except Tigers of course). From the club's point of view, Gloucester are getting an excellent player. From the players point of view, he should get more game time, especially if EFS leaves (Which seems a possibility). England also need him to be playing regularly at inside centre and he just hasn't been doing that enough at Leicester.

Glos are putting some backline together. It must be pleasing that so many of them have come through the academy too.

Cheer up Portnoy, I've heard tell that Jimmy Gopperth is the latest player Leicester intend to take off Falcons hands. He'll be a handy replacement I'm sure! I could extoll his virtues all day!

Possible Glos backline for next season?

9. Simpson
10. Burns/Jones
11. Sinbad/Phillips
12. 36
13. Trinder
14. Sharples
15. May/O Morgan

Replace the rumoured-to-be-leaving Narraway with Ben Morgan at 8 and surely it's a side that can challenge for top honours?

HongKongCherry wrote:Portnoy I don't think it has anything to do with salary, its about an assurance of playing at 12. Tigers couldn't guarantee it, whereas as we're losing EFS we need a 12. We've got more than enough cover at 13 and our 10 options should be solved shortly too.

It's all about squads HKC. 36 is likely to be out for most EPS/IWs for the foreseeable future. Plus the odd injury. As a Tigers fan what better than Youngs/Young, Flood/Ford, 36/Smith, Manu/Allen?

It has to be either/or/both wage caps and wage policy. Probably the former. Leicester are effectively being forced to run with their left ankle tied to their right wrist. They have been bleeding players.

It's disappointing, but in this rugby climate, tough choices have to be made. He is clearly talented, but he has struggled to live up to it since he exploded onto the scene against Ospreys. Showing flashes of his potential. I think he was blown out of proportion a bit (you don't say! Many will cry). He has potential, but needs to be first choice at this point in his career. Now if he feels that he isn't up to fighting with Allen for that then good luck to him.

As it stands, for me, Allen is still the better player. Twelvetrees may yet go on to eclipse him, but as it stands, he is just too inconsistent. Maybe it's cause he was poorly managed, maybe it's because he wasn't as good a player as we thought he was.

Gloucester is a good club for him though. Should be assured regular time at centre, good young players around him. If they can't get the best out of him, no one will.

Wise choice by Twelvetrees, given Tigers' current squad composition they seem more interested in using his versatility and playing him at OC or FH.

Can understand why Tigers wouldn't pay too much to keep him either, he's more likely than Allen to make the senior England side in the coming years, so prioritising retaining Allen when your FH & OC are England 1st choice makes more sense.

Portnoy wrote:

It has to be either/or/both wage caps and wage policy. .

Sorry Portnoy I fail to see how this has got anything to do with the wage cap. If there were no wage restrictions he'd still be leaving as he wants regular game time at 12.

Cockerill never really trusted him I reckon and Billy has finally shown some ambition. It's a brilliant move for Twelvetrees, Gloucester and England.

What a backline Gloucester will have. I'd tell May to specialise at FB, with the odd appearance at centre when necessary.

All things even Cherry, he would be first choice 12 at Leicester. My guess is that it's kerching that made the difference.

Huge loss for Tigers, and no doubt a very irritating one after all the years theyve put into developing him they wont get the best use from him.
Almost as frustrating as being Newcastle and having Tigers poach pretty much every good young player you ever had .
Hes one of the few whos come through and looked like he could be Heineken class rather than just a good premiership prospect.

Course the joke will be on Gloucester when he gets taken away by England and broken.

Good for him, Cockers does make a good point in the article though.
But still him and Trinder is a potentially very talented midfield.

Portnoy, that is rather presumptious and as Glaws have an even tighter wage policy than Tigers, I'd summise that would be an incorrect assumption too! He's not the marquee player either. I think you're just determined to link this to your wage cap theory.

The Mercury article is quite a chilling read, with this nasty comment at the end

former Wasps half-back Danny Cipriani are all out of contract this summer

"On Monday he told me he was staying, on Wednesday I was told by his agent that he was signing for Gloucester, who have assured him of being first choice number 12 for them and his salary has been much improved."I did not want to lose him and he will be fully involved until the end of the season."

That was cockers comments post game. Flaws have guarenteed him the 12 shirt and paid him first team wages. We should have been offering the same as Allen is no longer the better player and we have Forsyth who is looking good coming into the first team and Javiar Pohe in the academy who looks a talent.

Guess the Dan Bowden rumours will take off again.

There was quite a lot of anger in the Goldsmiths Stand as everyone thought he had actually signed a new contract with us, rather than just verbally agreed.

There was less disquiet about the rumour Skivington is also joining glaws.

Basil is one smart feicer

More from Cockerill;

Cockerill added: "We have been in negotiations for a while and we would have loved to keep him.

"I made him some assurances about his playing time here and he has already played a lot this year and last. But they have assured him that he will be first choice when fit.

"We offered very good money, they offered more.

"We offered a six-figure salary and they upped it by 50 per cent and told him that he was going to play every week at inside centre."

Cockerill added: "I wouldn't guarantee anybody their spot here."

Portnoy wrote:All things even Cherry, he would be first choice 12 at Leicester. My guess is that it's kerching that made the difference.

So I repeat kerching. Plus (and this is a new and direct accusation) - a an irresponsible 'promise'. 36 will be put through the wringer.

I'd like to think that Tom Walkinshaw would be twitching (even if not turning) in his grave.

Agents - you gotta love 'em.

Don't see what is wrong with a player asking for a bigger 2nd contract. He would have signed on academy terms, now he is on the edge of international recognition, so deserves a pay rise. If your performances in your job get you recognised at a higher level, you get promoted and a pay rise, whats wrong with that? To keep building his international chances he needs to play week in week out to help get noticed, so getting a guaranteed 12 shirt is a no brainer.

Not sure why he is getting stick here, seems very silly to me.

Stay at Leicester, stuck behind Allen
Go to Glos, a team on the up, with the best backline in the prem, for a better contract and more games.

How many of you can honestly say they would take the former choice?

Well Bathite I don't think anyone blames him for opting for pay rise plus guarenteed start when all Tigers were offering was a lesser pay rise. According to Cockerill Tigers were offering six figures so he was going to be on the minimum of £100k a year and probably more than that if we're realistic. By the sounds of it Glaws are desperate for a 12 and have offered not far under £200k so it's simple maths for Billy.

Billy and Burns are both in the Saxons squad so maybe the Glaws fans will get an early viewing of that combination.

The comment above mine seemed to be giving 36 and his agent stick thats all. Supply and demand I guess, we paid over the odds for Attwood, in a very similar situation. Young EQ talent is expensive! Thats why the likes of Manusamoa, Fassavalu and Burger are viewed as better value for clubs, but that's another problem and another thread

Portnoy, I find it pretty crass of you to bring TW into this. Glaws have been nothing but professional in our negotiations. You will find the assurances we have made him are that he'll be playing 12, not that he is guaranteed to be 1st choice - Brush doesn't do that with anyone. On the money front, you'll find that the 6 figure offer from Tigers was basically £100k, which is pretty poor for a player of his quality, so our 50% increase is still only half what you're paying Cole!

It's a shame there isn't a smiley for sour grapes Portnoy!

Any ire I have expressed is at Tigers who had earlier announced that 36 had signed a new contract, and the player/agent for verbally agreeing a new contract before then talking to someone else.

so our 50% increase is still only half what you're paying Cole!

Cole is a recognised international and a tighthead prop who along with fly halfs demand the biggest salaries. Talented England Saxon centres are not going to be offered £300k by any club least of all Leicester.

Think all Tigers fans are pretty gutted to be losing him just when he's been coming good and starting regularly. Before the dissenters start he has started every game he was fit for this season barring the two Clermont games where he was on the bench. Glaws have got themselves an excellent all rounder who need a little work on his kicking accuracy and defensive organisation but otherwise is an exceptional talent likely to expand your backline nicely.

I still yet to be convinced he is as good as people think he is. I think his current ability is largely overstated. He is talented, has the attributes and he shows flashes of his potential, but all too often he is worryingly inconsistent. He has still not shown anything as good as the Ospreys match that made him a name since that day. One or two that were closer, but he just hasn't hit the highs since.

Maybe that was down to Leicester's handling of him, or maybe he just isn't as good as people want to think he is. It's not a lack of gametime thing this season either, as he played in the vast majority of games when he was available.

This move will make or break him. Glos will be a good environment for him, but if they can't get the best out of him, no one will.

Sam, I wasn't suggesting he is worth £300k, but that by offering £100k you were significantly undervaluing him. If it was abut cash, he could have gone to host of more wealthy clubs.

Oh reminds me, heard on twitter apparently Skivington is joining london irish!

Skivington is confirmed to Irish

Replacing Kennedy who has gone to Toulon

I heard he was replacing big bob?

I thought Casey had another year on his contract?

So Skivington partnering Garvey?

Seems that way Yappy. Skivs is mobile and a decent grafter but never had the required grunt or set piece specialisation to make him a first choice pick for Tigers. He might well flourish at a club not so set piece focussed.

Bathite wrote:Replacing Kennedy who has gone to Toulon

They like their aging English second rowers down there don't they? Dean Schofield, Simon Shaw, Chris Chesney and now Nick Kennedy, although he is a whippersnapper compared to the others.

Kennedy got years left in him, quality signing, wish we had gone for him. Only 30 years old, arguably, our best two locks last year were Grewcock 38 and Lobbe, 37!

Interesting interview with 36 that gives a slightly different view to Cockers http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/jan/27/billy-twelvetrees-gloucester-england-saxons

"At Bedford I'd chuck passes out wide which maybe wouldn't go to hand but you could get away with it. You could miss a tackle and it wouldn't matter. When I got to Leicester those things got highlighted"


So hes gone to Gloucester so he doesnt have to worry about his basic skills?

Good signing lads.....

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:"At Bedford I'd chuck passes out wide which maybe wouldn't go to hand but you could get away with it. You could miss a tackle and it wouldn't matter. When I got to Leicester those things got highlighted"


So hes gone to Gloucester so he doesnt have to worry about his basic skills?

Good signing lads.....

... or he understands that there are areas of his game he needs to work on? The question is surely, why he doesn't feel that Leicester is the place for him to do this? Don't get me wrong, I've made stupid japes about Leicester, but I genuinely appreciate what the Tigers are and what they've done for English rugby. It worries me that they might be losing that indefinable 'Leicester' aura about them and the players they produce. If you follow me...?

Gosh you really are bitter aren't you! You should also be a journo with that type of selective quoting.

Cumbrian yeah im just haveing a jape there, just reading it I was liek " is that really what youre saying Billy? Tigers expected you to play properly and thats why you werent getting picked so you moved because you want to play more?
I think in reality he feels that hes sharpened up and is good enough, and no question feels bitter about missing out on England despite putting in one good performance this season.
That interview is quite enlightening about the guy. Hes clearly hugely ambitious and rates himself very highly, and isnt prepared to believe he should be overlooked for a solid grafter like Allen. Reminds me a lot of Cipriani in that hes clearly got something special and knows it, but maybe doesnt want to face up to the things he hasnt got and is prone to howlers still.
The general tone of that article is a but worshipful dont you think?

Your views on Tigers...yeah tell me about it. Most of us kind of hoped he was the one, but hes been very unreliable. A couple of singlehanded mnaulings of sides punctated by error strewn performances. Theres no question Tigers have lost their magic touch, some very good players coming through and coming in but no real superstars anymore. And aside form the props no real dominating players in any positions, aside from when Flood and Youngs are paired together which is pretty rare these days thanks to Team England.

Gloucester and Saracens are putting together monster squads. Also assuming Harlequins arent a flash in the pan Tigers will have their work cut out to reach an 983rd premiership final in a row next season. As for Europe, meh.