Pakistan v England 2nd Test

First topic message reminder :

England team:
AJ Strauss(c), AN Cook, IJL Trott, KP Pietersen, IR Bell, EJG Morgan, MJ Prior(w), SCJ Broad, GP Swann, JM Anderson, MS Panesar

Pakistan team:
Mohammad Hafeez, Taufeeq Umar, Azhar Ali, Younis Khan, Misbah-ul-Haq(c), Asad Shafiq, Adnan Akmal(w), Abdur Rehman, Umar Gul, Saeed Ajmal, Junaid
Khan


Pakistan won the toss and elected to bat

Very rewarding session for Pakistan, they looked like having the match taken away from the slightly until Trott's wicket.

Bell is really struggling out there

There really isnt another option for them to play alfie, they must protect their wickets

6 more balls, come on Mogs block away..

Those late wickets have taken the sting out of the strong momentum that England was building. They do have Prior at 7, the best of the present lot in that position in international cricket. Their lower order is also the best in the world, turning many dificult situations in their favor. But with the late strikes, Pakistan have found an opening, and the match has become more interesting.

Oh nooooo. Damn it, we are going to lose this Test.

JAYSUSSSSSSSSSSSSS Mogs!!!!!!!!!!!!

And there goes Morgan...

Pakistan's session and England will need serious runs from the tail...still reckon a lead of even 100 would be enough but that looks a long way off right now.

The last 10 overs its been 9/3... What a hitback by Pakistan

Not a prayer of a lead over 100, Alfie. We will be lucky to lead at all at this rate. Once again we have let the spinners get right on top of us.

So what exactly was that Mogs?!

James Taylor for KP and Bopara for Morgan for the Sri Lanka tests?

and i could say , that is what comes of poking about without trying to score ...but I understand the "survival is everything" mentality in this situation.

Just don't think England do it very well , especially against spinners. Have to play shots tomorrow morning or there won't be a lead at all.

Its not even halfway through the test Fists

Lets see what position the teams are in tomorrow at Lunch

Don't forget someone for Strauss too, Hog. And a replacement for Flower.

Alfie, i am with you. I was expecting a wicket every ball for the last five overs to be honest.

Shutting up shop was the option but its not what England do best...

So

Strauss was below average again, Cook and Trott played very nicely. KP threw his wicket away and with it surely his place is now under question... Bell looks lost and Mogs is truly dire at test cricket.

Prior to save us again...

Gregers wrote:So

Strauss was below average again, Cook and Trott played very nicely. KP threw his wicket away and with it surely his place is now under question... Bell looks lost and Mogs is truly dire at test cricket.

Prior to save us again...

are you serious?

he averaged 80 last year, and he has only had 3 innings this year! what a ridiclous statement to make.

Fists of Fury wrote:Oh nooooo. Damn it, we are going to lose this Test.

come on mate, your emotions are going up and down like a rollercoaster.

You have a long tail (well your team does), cheer up and find some positivity.

Kp didnt really throw his wicket away gregers... I guess everytime he gets out you think that

Mogs, is simply not a test player. Prior has another job to do tomorrow

Gregers wrote:So

KP threw his wicket away and with it surely his place is now under question... ...

by you alone?

Lets deal with Morgan and Strauss first. Cerytainly Bopara may feel hard done by if he isnt given Morgans place in the 3rd test.

Indeed Fists , game has changed - but I'm not ruling anything out yet : Prior and friends can bat and a couple of decent partnerships can see England back on top.

Rather butchered that last hour though ... set batman goes , two never got going and Bell survived by the skin of his teeth.

How was Morgan out?

One good innings every 15 or so test innings does not make a number 4 in test cricket....

I really rate Mogs as a ODI and T20 player, always have. I have never seen anything in him that suggests to me that he would make a good test player. Everyone keeps saying he will be but i would prefer to only have him in the ODI T20 sides.

Tossed up, Morgan waved the bat in it and edged to slip.

Pretty limp.

cricketfan90 wrote:

Gregers wrote:So

Strauss was below average again, Cook and Trott played very nicely. KP threw his wicket away and with it surely his place is now under question... Bell looks lost and Mogs is truly dire at test cricket.

Prior to save us again...

are you serious?

he averaged 80 last year, and he has only had 3 innings this year! what a ridiclous statement to make.

he averaged 80 last year gregers, and has only had 3 innings this year, i had to repeat that, because that is ana asboutely ridiclous statement to make

im sorry gregers but this KP thing of yours, is starting to get ridiclous.

eirebilly wrote:I really rate Mogs as a ODI and T20 player, always have. I have never seen anything in him that suggests to me that he would make a good test player. Everyone keeps saying he will be but i would prefer to only have him in the ODI T20 sides.

Isn't that how everyone feels about Mogs?

Gregers wrote:One good innings every 15 or so test innings does not make a number 4 in test cricket....

I think with over 6000 test runs and and average close to 50 pretty much says that he has more than one good innings every 15 or so as you put it

In the last two years eire, we have 2 wonderful double hundreds from KP and apart from that not a lot else.

And against spin he always struggles

Gregers wrote:One good innings every 15 or so test innings does not make a number 4 in test cricket....

Lucky for England they have a test 4 whose passed 50 in more than half his last 15 innings , with a 175 and a 202 NO to boot.

But yeah Strauss would be an awful test 4.

Gregers wrote:In the last two years eire, we have 2 wonderful double hundreds from KP and apart from that not a lot else.

And against spin he always struggles

Aside from the 175

Gregers wrote:

eirebilly wrote:I really rate Mogs as a ODI and T20 player, always have. I have never seen anything in him that suggests to me that he would make a good test player. Everyone keeps saying he will be but i would prefer to only have him in the ODI T20 sides.

Isn't that how everyone feels about Mogs?

Not that i am aware of, most people keep telling me to 'wait and see' with him but i have waited and i have seen and dont feel he is test standard. Why he is continually selected i have no idea....

Gregers wrote:In the last two years eire, we have 2 wonderful double hundreds from KP and apart from that not a lot else.

And against spin he always struggles

It is becuase he learnt to play spin in South Africa.....................oh wait, it is where he learnt not to play spin.

Gregers wrote:In the last two years eire, we have 2 wonderful double hundreds from KP and apart from that not a lot else.

And against spin he always struggles

Hmmm, he has made more runs than just that though hasnt he. Pretty sure he has a 150+ and a few 50+ innings to go with those double hundreds

eirebilly wrote:

Gregers wrote:

eirebilly wrote:I really rate Mogs as a ODI and T20 player, always have. I have never seen anything in him that suggests to me that he would make a good test player. Everyone keeps saying he will be but i would prefer to only have him in the ODI T20 sides.

Isn't that how everyone feels about Mogs?

Not that i am aware of, most people keep telling me to 'wait and see' with him but i have waited and i have seen and dont feel he is test standard. Why he is continually selected i have no idea....

Have you seen Ravi Bopara?
Thats why.

TBF he hasnt had that long a run and he did have a handy start.
The century agaisnt India was enough to make sure he got retaiuned for thsi series, afetr all he was suippossed to be the guy who would trhive here.
Hes not done that, so now he has to be questioned.
In the summer one of the lads should get a go. Trouble is Boparas in the way.

He may of course blow us all away yet, hes only half way through this series if he gets picked for the third game.

to be fair the pitch is spinning, and now starting to spit, its extremely tough conditions, the game is still in the balance.

eirebilly wrote:

Gregers wrote:In the last two years eire, we have 2 wonderful double hundreds from KP and apart from that not a lot else.

And against spin he always struggles

Hmmm, he has made more runs than just that though hasnt he. Pretty sure he has a 150+ and a few 50+ innings to go with those double hundreds

99, 74,64, 80, 51, 72, 85, 63, 63, 175 as well as the two double tons.

Gregger is still judging him on the 2009-2010 run.

Considering Tendulkar hasnt passed 100 in well over a year, we can forgive KP only doing it twice in one game and once in another.

Eire
I'm entirely with you on Morgan - good T20 and ODI player and based on that (and his performance in the A Test) he deserved a shot in the Test side as a replacement for Collingwood. However, we've seen enough now to suggest that his technique is not a match for the pressures of long form of the game. The question now is who is next in line?

Bopara has been tried before and hasn't established himself as a Test player - three good innings against a West Indies attack that wouldn't have been good enough for County level doesn't make a Test class batsman.

Taylor has a big reputation from first class matches, but he hasn't yet shown at ODI level that he has the temprament and mental strength for International cricket.

I know that Bopara is their but in all honesty, Mogs has never looked like a test player to me PSW. There is only so much time you can give for a player to become test standard, even if he did hit a century against India. Him and Strauss are very big concerns and have been for a while.

Gregers, your thoughts are simply moronic when it comes to KP. Best you stay away from that subject, I feel.

Its a hard one dummy_half but i would certainly look towards selecting another player. Bopara is not the answer and neither is Mogs. Give another young chap a run and see how they perform, if they are going to be test quaility then we will see that soon enough.

Fists of Fury wrote:Gregers, your thoughts are simply moronic when it comes to KP. Best you stay away from that subject, I feel.

Gregers is alright Fists, he is just seriously not a fan of KP thats all

Right then, thoughts on the days play?

Outstanding from England first up, and great batting from Cook and Trott after Strauss fell. Manouevred us in to an incredibly strong position, only for Pakistan to fight back very well/England to go in to their shell in the last hour.

This Test is now simply on a knife edge, and relies entirely on how we bat tomorrow morning. If we don't get a lead of 80 or more then we can probably kiss goodbye to this series, as batting last against these spinners, even if not a lot is happening, will prove impossible as England suffer from that same mental block we have seen so many times over the years.

Ian Bell, Matt Prior, and to a lesser extent Stuart Broad and Graeme Swann, staying in this series is down to you.

Summed up well Fists. The first 10 overs tomorrow will be crucial. I wonder if Pakistan will take the new ball or if they will spin for the first 5-6 overs.

Should be very interesting but if a few of the tail end have a lash then a lead of over 50 should be possible.

dummy_half wrote:Eire
I'm entirely with you on Morgan - good T20 and ODI player and based on that (and his performance in the A Test) he deserved a shot in the Test side as a replacement for Collingwood. However, we've seen enough now to suggest that his technique is not a match for the pressures of long form of the game. The question now is who is next in line?

Bopara has been tried before and hasn't established himself as a Test player - three good innings against a West Indies attack that wouldn't have been good enough for County level doesn't make a Test class batsman.

Taylor has a big reputation from first class matches, but he hasn't yet shown at ODI level that he has the temprament and mental strength for International cricket.

I have a slight issue with England on this. They seem to introduce all their players through ODIs to see if they are suitable for tests. The two games require different types of mental proccess as well as different skills for players.
Why is it that a player always has to prove thmselves in ODIs first? I guess it sums up Englands attitude to limited overs, its a knock about laugh game the kids can play. They are much more willing to experiment there.
Taylors had one ODI, its a bit soon to write him off as a test player. Hes the Lions captain, hes the obvious one to come in in the summer.
But it does still leave the 5th bowling option problem. Which is why Id like one of the young spinner batsmen to start stepping up and making their case ahead of Panessar as a second spinner option.

Its a pity what happned to Rashid, hes really dropped away alarming after some odd treatment by England.
Going back to my earlier point you have a guy whos record in first class cricket was outstanding, svereal seasons in a row he featured in the county MVP top 5...no other player had done that. He was pretty average in the limited overs formats though.
So what do Englsand do ? Take him on two test tours but dont play him. Then pick him for T20s and ODIs. Suprise suprise he didnt do too well. Gets taken away for the winter and then dropped like a stone and complelty loses his nerve. Congratulations England.

If you'd told England at the start of the day that we'd have been 40-50 behind with 5 down by the close of play, they'd have thought it an OK day - not great, but not terrible.

The problem is that when we were at 170-1 the match was there for the taking, and so 4 quick wickets has tipped the momentum very firmly back towards Pakistan.

Pressure definitely on Bell and Prior now - a 100 partnership plus some runs from the tail would see another big momentum shift, whereas a couple of quick wickets tomorrow and we're behind the 8 ball.

I also dont agree that potential England test players have to prove themselves in ODI's. I say let them come into the test team. Taylor would be an excellent option i feel. Handles pressure very well and is a good timer of the ball.

One plus for England is Swann and Broad in the tail, plus Anderson isnt the mug he used to be.
Just 50 runs between them makes a huge difference in what looks like being a low scoring game. Its hard to imagine England going the way Pakistan did this morning.

Personally, i think that England are good for another 100 runs.....

Yeah youd be dissapointed if they didnt get at least that much.

Between the guys left they average over 150 so youd hope they could get 100.