A few Questions regarding the Eden course St Andrews

Regarding the eden, did anyone, particularly locals such as super, play it before some of the colt holes were buried beneath a driving range and car park?

It is generally thought that Donald Steel made a real mess of the Eden redo but just wondered what the people of 606v2 think.

Also, what are the chances the links trust decides to get someone else in to fix the Eden at some point?

I played Eden last summer. I assume that the new holes are those weird parkland holes with the pond. They really spoilt the course and are completely out of character. They felt more like a modern course in Surrey.

Greens were superb though. I think that they were part of the redo. Was the redo of the greens just a sort of resurfacing or did it involve reshaping them too?

DOn't see any problem with The Eden Mac, it's far from being my faviourite, but it probably has some of the toughest greens in all of St.Andrews.

The Jubilee has also undergone many changes over time, as well as your favourite TOC.
The New remains the best and most enduring of designs in St.Andrews.

Yes the new holes are the parkland holes with the pond. I am not sure what the full story is with the greens on the original holes but overall it is the quality of the greens that save the course. I get the feeling that the old version of the eden would have been as much a joy to play as the new and the jubilee.

I hope more of the story of the courses evolution will be revealed in this thread.

They are well designed greens Mac, specifically 1,2,3,4,5,7,8,9,10,15, 17 and 18, but they are let down by being in poor condition most of the time. Bit like the back of a digestive biscuit.

Considering the mammoth amount of money they make, I can't see why they aren't of the same standard of the New, which year round are the best greens in terms of condition in St.Andrews.

Super

It is not that I have an issue with the Eden but I would like to hear from those that have played both versions of the course. It would seem from almost all the reviews I have read and from speaking to people in the know that the redo was a bit of a disaster. I do not enjoy the new holes as much when playing the eden and for that reason opt for rounds on the new and jubilee instead. I get the feeling this would not have been such an easy choice before the changes.

I would currently split every ten rounds in st Andrews as such;

7 TOC
2 New
1 Jubilee

It would be nice if the eden was good enough to get in the mix and add more veriety.

Mac, I really think you should put your prejudice away and play The Castle. It's a masterpiece.

Super

If you let me on with you at members guest rates I will be there.

Mac, I would do, but I don't get members rates for guests until next year, The Links Trust are rather niggardly when it comes to concessions, despite making millions a year.

The 16th, 17th and 18th would grace any course.

Interesting that you say that the greens are poor. When we visited in August they were as good as any I have played on. Beautifully smooth. Must have got a good day.

It did remind of the one bad aspect of it. The service was poor at best. Checking in was not exactly welcoming then when I got back to hand in the handle to my trolley I didn't even get a thanks when I would have expected a How was your round? But the real blow was as I walked back to the boys they seemed to be having trouble getting a beer. Apparently the bar closed at 6.30 and as it was 6.32 we were too late, even for one quick one!

It was a shame as they gave the impression that all they cared about was getting your money and that they were doing you a favour. Carnoustie the next couple of days was the polar opposite. The starters must get bored rigid of the same first tee chats and jokes but you would think it was their first day on the job. Then the staff in the bar were just as good. Little things make a big difference and because of it I wouldn't rush back to the Eden given the local choices.

Two, the money IS all they care about. They know that people flock there so they have no incentive to offer good service.

So super, did you play the eden before the changes by donald steel?

Steady Mac, how old do you think I am?

S_r Its a shame. Carnoustie also remove a large amount of money but seem to understand that a smile and some interest in you goes a long way.

I'm just glad I went there afterwards as if I had just been up for the one round I doubt I would make much effort to get back but as it is I will be. Lancashire coast to try links again this summer and take in The Open too.

Two,
I get to play the Championship course for free every year at Carnoustie and for me it's the best links course this side of Dornoch. Knocks TOC into a cocked hat.

Super

As far as I can tell the changes were completed in 1989, so you would not have to be very old.

I was 14 Mac, I remember when it was being done, as I used to watch the progress on my way to school, however I'd long since given up golf at the time.

Didn't start playing again for another 15 years.

s_r You are a lucky man. It was a great course. Chewed me up a little but meant it was very satisfying to play a few holes well. I was very proud of my par at 16 and almost getting up and down from the greenside bunker for par on the 18th but happy with a 5. The less said about 17 the better. Now that is a hard hole on a still day let alone into the 2 club wind we had!

Mac

Last played the Eden in October 2010. Really enjoyed it. Greens were tremendous. Looked a bit sandy but very true, and I rolled in a lot of nice putts.

Was having one of the best rounds of my life till I got to the 17th ! Two balls lost over the fence and that was curtains for me.......

Not mad on the pond etc as out of keeping with the rest of the course, links etc. I did play it once may moons ago before the changes and think it was a better layout without the amendments to be honest.

Not a bad wee course though. I would also say that the starter etc could not have made us more welcome - we must have been lucky that day. Only hassle was the ranger who expected you to "run" between shots I think !!

'Fraid I'm old enough to have played the old Eden course Mac. Having a bit of a problem remembering the new one never mind the old one though! I still have an old h'cap certificate containing my best score over it (73).

Of course the orginal clubhouse is the small building near to the Old Course Hotel. Teed off from there to a short par 4. A longer par 4 followed up the left hand side of the railway. Cross the railway for the par 3 third hole with wall behind the green (now a par 4). I think the course pretty much followed the original until you get out to about the 8th??? Memory has gone a bit foggy here for the far corner of the old Eden.

Anyway, fast forward to the par 5 15th and then back over the wall to play the par 3 16th. Cross back over the railway which involved a tricky dogleg to the right cutting the corner off another wall (how much depended how brave you were!) and then on to the 18th for a fairly straightforward par 4. The old practice ground was behind the 18th tee and it was always wise to keep one eye on the ball and the other on 'the shankers'!

Thanks for trying to dig up some old memories there geal and 73 is a great score.

Do you remember if the old routing put the eden on the same level as the new and the Jubilee?

Thanks Mac.

Quite difficult to answer your question as all four courses (excluding the Strathtyrum here) are quite different and, of course the Jubilee has changed quite a bit as well.

What I would say, however, is that when I first played the new Eden, I didn't care much for the changes whereas with the Jubilee, I think the changes have greatly improved this course.

Forgot to mention that when playing the old Eden course, there were parts of it which made me feel I was stepping back into a bygone era. Pretty magical really.

I have to admit the changes to the Jubilee were not something I really knew about until I searched for the changes to the Eden.

If you look at an aerial from 1945 and then from 2006 the changes to the land where the Strathyrum and the new eden holes sit is clear.

1945



2006

One of the courses, I think it must have been the Eden, started or finished in front of the Old Course Hotel, before it made way for the driving range.

The medal tee on the 7th of the Eden is one of the best in all of St.Andrews, really makes you think as you hit it out over the water or draw it over the berm.

By the way, St.Andrews now allow you to play whichever tees you want on all courses.

“By the way, St.Andrews now allow you to play whichever tees you want on all courses.”

That really comes as no surprise as I have heard of people playing TOC and having to use tee’s that make the course barely 5800 yards. Which I am sure is long enough in a tough wind but for better players in calmer conditions it is hardly a true representation of what the course can offer. For £135 (or whatever it is now) they need to be providing a top class service of which a great course is only one part.

I played the Jubilee a few months back and given the strength of the winds the junior tee’s would have been too long.

Super, do the locals ever play the strathyrum?

Strange you should ask that Mac,
Since becoming a member I have never played the Strath, however I have it on good authority it's a great place to practice your short game as there are a lot of holes where a good drive can get you close.

I intended to play it at the weekend, but it was too frosty, and the poofs at the Links Trust brick it and close the courses at the slightest sign of the mercury dipping.

TOC is now £150 a round in 2012, although £70 at the moment sue to the season. You have to ask what effect that will have when Kingsbarns and Carnoustie are both available at a similar price, and much easier to get a time on. Certainly more fun to play on those two less famous courses.

Wow, £150.

I am sure it was only £135 in 2011. Cant say I picked up the tab but I am sure it was not £150.

If the eden had not been Bar Stewardised and the strath was maybe a proper short game course, not like the crappy balcomie, do you think it would relieve the play on TOC, new and jubilee?

I know you hate the guy, but google the “sheep ranch bandon”, I reckon that sort of thing would be great at st Andrews. Also look at the proper nine holer they have built there, coore and Crenshaw I think.

People aren't too interested in the lesser courses Mac, New and Old are the two favourites or "must plays", while Yanks/Japs tend to play TOC, Carnoustie and Kingsbarns in a trip, occcasionally adding the New to that, although because you can't book a time on that it's a bit more difficult getting on.

TOC has gone up £10 since 2011. A lot of money for three good holes.

I must be in the minority since I thought the Eden was a great course & although the 2 holes with the pond were different from the rest of the course & didn't really fit in I think they're really good holes

Don't get me wrong, The Eden is a decent track, but when you have the New, Jubilee, Castle and TOC available for free, its not a course I play too often, although strangely round one of our club champs is played on it. Especially as the greens are often pretty gash too, despite them being well shaped.
It's a tough course if you don't have a good short game. I like the holes round the water too.

njc

Like super I do not dislike the Eden it is just a case of what could have, or indeed should, have been. To change the character of a Colt course so drastically is a brave decision and one that should have been worth it. I am not sure how much better a facility st andrews is with the driving and a damaged colt compared to a colt and no driving range.

I played the Eden old course in the 1987 in the Eden Trophy purely by chance. Is this competition still on the go Super? It was a big national event in the 60s but more of a local / holiday tournament by the 80s.

I had left Uni in 1985. 2 years later I met some of the guys still at Uni at a local competition the previous Sunday. They had just returned from a tour of the US and managed to get tickets for the 1987 Ryder Cup. Each had either a shirt or tank top from one of the players. They printed $2 tee shirts with words for each player - "Longer Langer" and "Slaming Sam" are two I recall. There were few UK fans so the players spotted the T shirsts and after the European win the players swapped to get their tee shirt. They got invited into the European tent after the match. One of the guys was on the table arm in arm with Seve on one side and Darcy on the other.

Anyway, I stayed back at the club and had a few drinks to hear all the stories. A few of the guys were playing the Eden Trophy the following day. Several drinks later I was in the back seat of a mini on my way to St Andrews to play the Eden Trophy.

Manged to get it round in 72 on the Eden and 72 on the New. We went to the draw in one of the clubs aside the 18th fairway. The locals were bidding for the players with set percentages of the total going to the winner, loser and semi-finalists.

Somehow managed to win the scratch event. A couple of the guys from the syndicate who bought me followed the final few matches. They were getting more nervous than I was. I was told by a few of the locals that the winner normally got a share of their winnings, but I got nothing.

the course was great. Not too long but loads of character. Pity it has been changed to accomodate other developments.

Mac, I think that The Eden is let down by poor maintenance rather than destroying previous design, it's a very good course but in municipal type condition.

I think The Eden trophy is still going, but one is loathed to pay to play ones own course. There are too many other Opens to play in.

Scottie

I recall one of my brothers playing in the Eden Trophy many years ago. I think there was a prize or trophy for the best qualifier after the stroke play rounds [two rounds I think] before it went to the matchplay which I am sure was the next stage.

He came in as top qualifier ----------------- and forgot to sign his scorecard ! Nightmare..............

McLaren wrote: a proper short game course, not like the crappy balcomie

I think you might mean the Balgove, not Balcomie, I hope... Balcomie is a wonderful test of one's short game.

The Eden does have some great holes but the new section at the far end is completely out of character. Interesting aerial photo which made me ponder that the new back tee on the 17th of The Old is on the old Eden course.

3putt

Sorry I mean balgove, which is actually not that bad for the beginner I am just not sure it would hold the interest for the more experienced player.

I must also stress I have enjoyed my rounds on the eden but was just curious as to how good it used to be or how good it could have become.

Mac, played The Eden yesterday, outstanding condition for once, and despite nearly being brained by two balls in 20 seconds (resulting in one being thrown right back at the offender) I had a thoroughly good day.

You threw someone's ball at them? Really?

Not at them George, but certainly in their general direction, we'd nearly been hit by the shot before without a shout of "fore", and so my playing partner went round the corner to show them we were there. They acknowledged their mistake, raised their hands in apology, so we went back to the green we were on and lo and behold one misses my head by about a foot from the same party.
I picked up the ball and threw it straight back towards them, should have written "Shout FORE next time" on the ball.

They knew they were close with the first, how hard would it have been for them to shout a warning?

Never had you down as a slow player super!

I was 4 holes ahead of the group Blue. Just on an adjacent green.

.....but was it the right green?''