Stephen Ferris tackle- Was it a yellow card or even a penalty
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The v2 Forum :: Sport :: Rugby Union :: International
Page 15 of 17
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Stephen Ferris tackle- Was it a yellow card or even a penalty
First topic message reminder :
Wales won the match after Leigh Halfpenny kicked a penalty with under 1 min to go. Stephen Ferris was given a yellow card for a 'dangerous' tackle, everyone seems to agree yellow was harsh but was it even a penalty or was it just a good tackle?
**EDIT UPDATE from Adam**
Wales won the match after Leigh Halfpenny kicked a penalty with under 1 min to go. Stephen Ferris was given a yellow card for a 'dangerous' tackle, everyone seems to agree yellow was harsh but was it even a penalty or was it just a good tackle?
**EDIT UPDATE from Adam**
The International Rugby Board and Six Nations have backed Referee Wayne Barnes over the penalty decision that led to Ireland's Stephen Ferris being yellow carded during the RBS 6 Nations match at the Aviva Stadium on February 5.
While an Independent Six Nations Disciplinary Panel did not ultimately uphold the citing, the IRB’s match officials performance review endorsed Barnes' decision to award a penalty. On first viewing the panel could understand exactly how the match referee came to his decision. In dismissing the citing no criticism of the referee’s on field decision should be taken or inferred. It was only after careful and prolonged analysis of the dynamics of the contact, including slow motion and step by step viewing, that the committee was able to see the strength of the submissions made in favour of Stephen Ferris.
All match officials are selected for International competition on merit. Performances are reviewed on an ongoing basis and taken into consideration when appointments are made for future international competitions.
Neither organisation will make any further comment on this matter.
Rugby_Girl- Posts : 20
Join date : 2012-01-05
Re: Stephen Ferris tackle- Was it a yellow card or even a penalty
There I was, out all day and thought this would have died in the water. But we are now at almost 700 posts and still it goes on. Part of me is hoping its the Italians that are involved in any controversies this weekend
Anyway I just wanted to wish everyone good luck for the games and may the better team win comfortably in every case
Anyway I just wanted to wish everyone good luck for the games and may the better team win comfortably in every case
Rava- Posts : 9507
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Glas a du- Posts : 15843
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Re: Stephen Ferris tackle- Was it a yellow card or even a penalty
Just read the entire thread!
whew!
The levels of sanctimony, self righteousness and claims of the moral high ground were hilarious.
Despite all the abuse and ridicule you saw it through Chunky Norwich and for that I applaud you.
whew!
The levels of sanctimony, self righteousness and claims of the moral high ground were hilarious.
Despite all the abuse and ridicule you saw it through Chunky Norwich and for that I applaud you.
Messymesina- Posts : 117
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Re: Stephen Ferris tackle- Was it a yellow card or even a penalty
Who put 10 pence in this one?
Glas a du- Posts : 15843
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Re: Stephen Ferris tackle- Was it a yellow card or even a penalty
So... what's the verdict was it a penalty?
The Great Aukster- Posts : 5246
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Re: Stephen Ferris tackle- Was it a yellow card or even a penalty
I don't know I think we need to debate it
geoff999rugby- Posts : 5923
Join date : 2012-01-19
Re: Stephen Ferris tackle- Was it a yellow card or even a penalty
Messymesina wrote:Just read the entire thread!
whew!
The levels of sanctimony, self righteousness and claims of the moral high ground were hilarious.
Despite all the abuse and ridicule you saw it through Chunky Norwich and for that I applaud you.
I always find post that have a dig but actually say nothing a waste of space.
This definitely meets that criteria.
geoff999rugby- Posts : 5923
Join date : 2012-01-19
Re: Stephen Ferris tackle- Was it a yellow card or even a penalty
Might as well drag this up again for some light relief tonight
Heres what ESPN make of it:
The penalty and card were correct, the citing was not required and was dismissed.
Heres what ESPN make of it:
This time, Barnes saw the tackle by Ireland's Stephen Ferris on Wales lock Ian Evans and awarded what would prove to be the match-winning penalty before sending the Irishman to the sin-bin. Ferris' citing for what was deemed a 'tip-tackle' has since been dismissed but the fact that he lifted and drove his player sideways did not negate from the fact that for a small amount of time Evans' hips were higher than shoulders - an accepted guide for foul play tackles - and therefore he was rightly penalised, carded and cited himself. However, the general consensus is that the appropriate judgements were handed down by disciplinary chiefs.
The penalty and card were correct, the citing was not required and was dismissed.
Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler- Posts : 10344
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Re: Stephen Ferris tackle- Was it a yellow card or even a penalty
Wow. You must have a lot of time on you hands. But I guess there is nothing else to do tonight.Messymesina wrote:Just read the entire thread!
whew!
doctor_grey- Posts : 12354
Join date : 2011-04-30
Re: Stephen Ferris tackle- Was it a yellow card or even a penalty
doctor_grey wrote:Wow. You must have a lot of time on you hands. But I guess there is nothing else to do tonight.Messymesina wrote:Just read the entire thread!
whew!
If his hands were that unoccupied he couldve got some light relief from the england womens rugby thread...
Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler- Posts : 10344
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Re: Stephen Ferris tackle- Was it a yellow card or even a penalty
This is why they had to cancel the Ireland game tonight. If there are 15 pages (to date) on one tackle from the last game then the Internet will soon get full up.
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Re: Stephen Ferris tackle- Was it a yellow card or even a penalty
Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Might as well drag this up again for some light relief tonight
Heres what ESPN make of it:This time, Barnes saw the tackle by Ireland's Stephen Ferris on Wales lock Ian Evans and awarded what would prove to be the match-winning penalty before sending the Irishman to the sin-bin. Ferris' citing for what was deemed a 'tip-tackle' has since been dismissed but the fact that he lifted and drove his player sideways did not negate from the fact that for a small amount of time Evans' hips were higher than shoulders - an accepted guide for foul play tackles - and therefore he was rightly penalised, carded and cited himself. However, the general consensus is that the appropriate judgements were handed down by disciplinary chiefs.
The penalty and card were correct, the citing was not required and was dismissed.
Watching Barnes on the pitch tonight it looked like he was still seeing loads of dangerous tackles that weren't happening, and Pearson was still denying his own eyes and bottling a decision he should have made two days ago.
The Great Aukster- Posts : 5246
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Re: Stephen Ferris tackle- Was it a yellow card or even a penalty
Fantastic post, made me chuckleSafeAsMilk wrote:This is why they had to cancel the Ireland game tonight. If there are 15 pages (to date) on one tackle from the last game then the Internet will soon get full up.
Enforcer- Founder
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Re: Stephen Ferris tackle- Was it a yellow card or even a penalty
Enforcer wrote:Fantastic post, made me chuckleSafeAsMilk wrote:This is why they had to cancel the Ireland game tonight. If there are 15 pages (to date) on one tackle from the last game then the Internet will soon get full up.
Note he said tackle!
Not Yellow card.
Not penalty!
Just a tackle!
Last edited by MrsP on Sun 12 Feb 2012, 18:29; edited 1 time in total
MrsP- Posts : 9207
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Re: Stephen Ferris tackle- Was it a yellow card or even a penalty
Maybe I should have typed "tackle" for just the right level of ambiguity!
Guest- Guest
Re: Stephen Ferris tackle- Was it a yellow card or even a penalty
Not a clue what you're talking about there Safe???
MrsP- Posts : 9207
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Re: Stephen Ferris tackle- Was it a yellow card or even a penalty
It must point to a problem in our game when there are over 750 posts on a tackle yet less about the game. Is our game that boring?
Guest- Guest
Re: Stephen Ferris tackle- Was it a yellow card or even a penalty
Nah, it was just a VERY exciting "tackle"Griff wrote:It must point to a problem in our game when there are over 750 posts on a tackle yet less about the game. Is our game that boring?
Guest- Guest
Re: Stephen Ferris tackle- Was it a yellow card or even a penalty
I think it is irresponsible to be discussing this when we haven't yet established if the ball crossed the line during England's 1966 Football World Cup final victory.
irfon17- Posts : 86
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Re: Stephen Ferris tackle- Was it a yellow card or even a penalty
Here is the transcript:
http://press.rbs6nations.com/6_Nations_DC_SPEPHEN_FERRIS_8_2_12.pdf
What a mess. The entire panel and the way it's written up is like a cryptic clue to get everyone off the hook, apart from Wayne Barnes - who stands by his decision to award a penalty and says Ferris failed to bring him to ground safely as Ina Evans had to use his arm to break his fall..
The citing panel found that there shouldn't have been a red card, yellow car or indeed a citing. There is no clear evidence of what the Irish team manager alluded to.
http://press.rbs6nations.com/6_Nations_DC_SPEPHEN_FERRIS_8_2_12.pdf
What a mess. The entire panel and the way it's written up is like a cryptic clue to get everyone off the hook, apart from Wayne Barnes - who stands by his decision to award a penalty and says Ferris failed to bring him to ground safely as Ina Evans had to use his arm to break his fall..
The citing panel found that there shouldn't have been a red card, yellow car or indeed a citing. There is no clear evidence of what the Irish team manager alluded to.
Chunky Norwich- Posts : 4409
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Glas a du- Posts : 15843
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Re: Stephen Ferris tackle- Was it a yellow card or even a penalty
Brad Davies' transcript is also out in which it says that Dave Pearson gave evidence and said he didn't award Brad Davies a red card because he was standing too near the incident to see proeprly! Incompetent fool!
Chunky Norwich- Posts : 4409
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Re: Stephen Ferris tackle- Was it a yellow card or even a penalty
So to paraphrase : Not even a penalty. Not Barnes' fault because he had to make a snap judgement, but now he's had a chance to review it he agrees it was just a good tackle. No lifting, foot remained on the ground, no driving, no dangerous upper body contact.
Shame it changed the outcome of the game!
Shame it changed the outcome of the game!
Last edited by miteyironpaw on Fri 17 Feb 2012, 14:47; edited 1 time in total
miteyironpaw- Posts : 1352
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Re: Stephen Ferris tackle- Was it a yellow card or even a penalty
Really? Now that is priceless!! Maybe it's true tho, cos he misses most of the stuff going on right under his noseChunky Norwich wrote:Brad Davies' transcript is also out in which it says that Dave Pearson gave evidence and said he didn't award Brad Davies a red card because he was standing too near the incident to see proeprly! Incompetent fool!
AsLongAsBut100ofUs- Posts : 14129
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Re: Stephen Ferris tackle- Was it a yellow card or even a penalty
miteyironpaw wrote:So to paraphrase : Not even a penalty.
A more accurate description would be: Not a penalty udner a certain section of the law, and didn't want to investigate further because it might make the whole process look like a shambles..
Not Barnes' fault because he had to make a snap judgement, but they believe if he had a chance to review it he would have agreed it was just a good tackle.
Yep, even though Branes had just said he stands by the decision even after looking at the evidence on video!.
Utter lunacy.
Chunky Norwich- Posts : 4409
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Re: Stephen Ferris tackle- Was it a yellow card or even a penalty
I don't like the part that says they don't want to criticise the referees or re-referee the game.
Surely if a referee has made a mistake, they should be free to say "look, the referee got this one wrong" and possibly even under the circumstances consider awarding the game to Ireland.
Surely if a referee has made a mistake, they should be free to say "look, the referee got this one wrong" and possibly even under the circumstances consider awarding the game to Ireland.
miteyironpaw- Posts : 1352
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Re: Stephen Ferris tackle- Was it a yellow card or even a penalty
I think the Irish position is that if Ferris shouldn't have gotten a red, or a yellow, or been cited, then there was no dangerous play. If there was no dangerous play then there shouldn't have been a penalty. What's the point in complaining though?
The Irish should stop complaining though and look at their own performance. Wales were better. They made a huge amount of ground in the last two minutes and didn't look like losing the ball. They could have easily gotten closer to the try line and either won a penalty, attempted a drop goal or even scored a try.
The funny thing is that two controversial refereeing decisions (ballboygate) have gone against us when facing Wales now. And it's some Welsh fans who are constantly complaining about biased refs and accusing the Irish of mad refereeing conspiracies. Their morale outrage at poor refereeing seems to disappear completely when they result in a Welsh victory.
The Irish should stop complaining though and look at their own performance. Wales were better. They made a huge amount of ground in the last two minutes and didn't look like losing the ball. They could have easily gotten closer to the try line and either won a penalty, attempted a drop goal or even scored a try.
The funny thing is that two controversial refereeing decisions (ballboygate) have gone against us when facing Wales now. And it's some Welsh fans who are constantly complaining about biased refs and accusing the Irish of mad refereeing conspiracies. Their morale outrage at poor refereeing seems to disappear completely when they result in a Welsh victory.
Feckless Rogue- Posts : 3230
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Re: Stephen Ferris tackle- Was it a yellow card or even a penalty
miteyironpaw wrote:I don't like the part that says they don't want to criticise the referees or re-referee the game.
Surely if a referee has made a mistake, they should be free to say "look, the referee got this one wrong" and possibly even under the circumstances consider awarding the game to Ireland.
Theys eemed to acknowledge Pearson got the Davies one wrong.
The Ferris citing panel also got the wrong legs mixed up in the report.
Can we really take a judiciary panel seriously if it can't tell left from right?
Chunky Norwich- Posts : 4409
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Re: Stephen Ferris tackle- Was it a yellow card or even a penalty
miteyironpaw, award the game to Ireland?? Stop winding the Welsh up. They were the better team and they happened to get the rub of the green with that last decision.
Feckless Rogue- Posts : 3230
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Re: Stephen Ferris tackle- Was it a yellow card or even a penalty
Feckless Rogue wrote:
The funny thing is that two controversial refereeing decisions (ballboygate) have gone against us when facing Wales now. And it's some Welsh fans who are constantly complaining about biased refs and accusing the Irish of mad refereeing conspiracies. Their morale outrage at poor refereeing seems to disappear completely when they result in a Welsh victory.
At international level Ireland seem to have been hard done by but at domestic level, I cannot believe what the Irish teams get away with.
Chunky Norwich- Posts : 4409
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Re: Stephen Ferris tackle- Was it a yellow card or even a penalty
Glas a du wrote:bar stewards
Who?
Why?
MrsP- Posts : 9207
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Re: Stephen Ferris tackle- Was it a yellow card or even a penalty
In paragraph (17) where it says,
"Mr Barnes did not have the luxury of sitting with the Disciplinary Committee replaying, reviewing, analysing and dissecting, with unlimited time to do so, what was a rapidly moving, fluid and dynamic situation. If he had such luxury he may well have come to a different decision, but that is not to say that he was wrong coming to the decision he did."
What do you think they meant?
Chunky Norwich,
"Yep, even though Branes had just said he stands by the decision even after looking at the evidence on video!."
Does Barnes say he has seen it on video?
"Mr Barnes did not have the luxury of sitting with the Disciplinary Committee replaying, reviewing, analysing and dissecting, with unlimited time to do so, what was a rapidly moving, fluid and dynamic situation. If he had such luxury he may well have come to a different decision, but that is not to say that he was wrong coming to the decision he did."
What do you think they meant?
Chunky Norwich,
"Yep, even though Branes had just said he stands by the decision even after looking at the evidence on video!."
Does Barnes say he has seen it on video?
MrsP- Posts : 9207
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Re: Stephen Ferris tackle- Was it a yellow card or even a penalty
Well he's noted as having looked at the extensive DVD replays at the hearing, no? that's video replays, right?
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Re: Stephen Ferris tackle- Was it a yellow card or even a penalty
Somewhere else in there it says something like "There was no evidence of lifting or driving, and that the tackle was not dangerous per se, which Mr Barnes accepts now" or something like that, so it sounds like against the overwhelming weight of evidence he's been forced to admit it was a mistake to award Wales a penalty, let alone issues a yellow card.
Last edited by miteyironpaw on Fri 17 Feb 2012, 15:58; edited 2 times in total
miteyironpaw- Posts : 1352
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Re: Stephen Ferris tackle- Was it a yellow card or even a penalty
MrsP wrote:In paragraph (17) where it says,
"Mr Barnes did not have the luxury of sitting with the Disciplinary Committee replaying, reviewing, analysing and dissecting, with unlimited time to do so, what was a rapidly moving, fluid and dynamic situation. If he had such luxury he may well have come to a different decision, but that is not to say that he was wrong coming to the decision he did."
What do you think they meant?
Chunky Norwich,
"Yep, even though Branes had just said he stands by the decision even after looking at the evidence on video!."
Does Barnes say he has seen it on video?
and what's with the selective reading? he may have come to a different decision, but they aren't saying he's wrong with the one he did come to. Just that it definitely wasn't deemed a yellow card or a citing.
Guest- Guest
Re: Stephen Ferris tackle- Was it a yellow card or even a penalty
Barnes wasn't there. He gave his evidence by phone.
I was just wondering if he had seen the videos or if he just gave his account from the match.
Does it say he saw the videos?
I might be going daft???
I was just wondering if he had seen the videos or if he just gave his account from the match.
Does it say he saw the videos?
I might be going daft???
MrsP- Posts : 9207
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Re: Stephen Ferris tackle- Was it a yellow card or even a penalty
I would be hugely surprised that as a ref, when reviewing his own performance of a game, hadn't viewed any video replays MrsP.
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Re: Stephen Ferris tackle- Was it a yellow card or even a penalty
MrsP wrote:In paragraph (17) where it says,
"Mr Barnes did not have the luxury of sitting with the Disciplinary Committee replaying, reviewing, analysing and dissecting, with unlimited time to do so, what was a rapidly moving, fluid and dynamic situation. If he had such luxury he may well have come to a different decision, but that is not to say that he was wrong coming to the decision he did."
What do you think they meant?
Chunky Norwich,
"Yep, even though Branes had just said he stands by the decision even after looking at the evidence on video!."
Does Barnes say he has seen it on video?
He says "on reflection". He would of course have seen the replays by the time the hearing was conducted, even though he gave evidence by telephone.
Chunky Norwich- Posts : 4409
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Re: Stephen Ferris tackle- Was it a yellow card or even a penalty
Well I wasn't reading selectively.
That's why I quoted the whole thing.
I just highlighted the part that I was questioning.
That's why I quoted the whole thing.
I just highlighted the part that I was questioning.
MrsP- Posts : 9207
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Re: Stephen Ferris tackle- Was it a yellow card or even a penalty
Yes I just wondered why you deemed that more significant then the underlined bit I pointed out. That's why it appeared selective to me.
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Re: Stephen Ferris tackle- Was it a yellow card or even a penalty
MrsP wrote:In paragraph (17) where it says,
"Mr Barnes did not have the luxury of sitting with the Disciplinary Committee replaying, reviewing, analysing and dissecting, with unlimited time to do so, what was a rapidly moving, fluid and dynamic situation. If he had such luxury he may well have come to a different decision, but that is not to say that he was wrong coming to the decision he did."
What do you think they meant?
Just a penalty perhaps? No yellow?
Chunky Norwich- Posts : 4409
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Re: Stephen Ferris tackle- Was it a yellow card or even a penalty
The Irish evidence is all very footballesque as well:
"There is little reaction from the players to the tackle until the referees whistle is blown, and a penalty awarded, followign which there is marked contrast reaction of delight or despair"
That really is a bitter, statement, I think that is the Irish evidence, but it might be the citing commisioenr. Don't know.
"There is little reaction from the players to the tackle until the referees whistle is blown, and a penalty awarded, followign which there is marked contrast reaction of delight or despair"
That really is a bitter, statement, I think that is the Irish evidence, but it might be the citing commisioenr. Don't know.
Chunky Norwich- Posts : 4409
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Re: Stephen Ferris tackle- Was it a yellow card or even a penalty
Because the committee are saying that he might have come to a different decision if he had had the chance to see the replays like the committee did.
Does that not imply that he didn't get to see the replays with the committee?
The bit I highlighted was to emphasise the point that I have been making in posts since the day of the match that I can completely understand why Barnes gave a yellow but on reviewing the footage I don't think it was dangerous.
It seems to me the committee have said pretty much the same thing.
Why do you soo want it to be a penalty offence?
Does that not imply that he didn't get to see the replays with the committee?
The bit I highlighted was to emphasise the point that I have been making in posts since the day of the match that I can completely understand why Barnes gave a yellow but on reviewing the footage I don't think it was dangerous.
It seems to me the committee have said pretty much the same thing.
Why do you soo want it to be a penalty offence?
MrsP- Posts : 9207
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Re: Stephen Ferris tackle- Was it a yellow card or even a penalty
I think what they meant MrsP was if Barnes had the chance to watch the replays at the time it could have affected his decision. Obviously at the time he's in the middle of refereeing a match so doesn't have that option. I wouldn't take it to mean he heasn't seen any replays whatsoever.
And it's not about people wanting it to be something, it's about how they view it, which for many, coincide with how Barnes viewed it. Can't see what's so bad about that myself. It's just a difference in opinion.
And it's not about people wanting it to be something, it's about how they view it, which for many, coincide with how Barnes viewed it. Can't see what's so bad about that myself. It's just a difference in opinion.
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Re: Stephen Ferris tackle- Was it a yellow card or even a penalty
Chunky Norwich wrote:The Irish evidence is all very footballesque as well:
"There is little reaction from the players to the tackle until the referees whistle is blown, and a penalty awarded, followign which there is marked contrast reaction of delight or despair"
That really is a bitter, statement, I think that is the Irish evidence, but it might be the citing commisioenr. Don't know.
Chunky,
The bit you quote is from the video evidence in SUPPORT of the citing complaint!
It is not evidence from the Irish camp.
I think we can all see where the bitterness is coming from.
Sad really.
MrsP- Posts : 9207
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Re: Stephen Ferris tackle- Was it a yellow card or even a penalty
There is no direct statement in the report that suggests Barnes has reviewed video footage. There is also nothing that indicates he didn't. It's ambiguous and we're unlikey to know.
I'm under the impression that refrees have their own review process after every international, at which point they must surely use video replay as a tool, and I can't imagine any review of the match could have failed to include this incident.r
I'm under the impression that refrees have their own review process after every international, at which point they must surely use video replay as a tool, and I can't imagine any review of the match could have failed to include this incident.r
miteyironpaw- Posts : 1352
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Re: Stephen Ferris tackle- Was it a yellow card or even a penalty
MrsP wrote:
Why do you soo want it to be a penalty offence?
It clearly was. Under the rules. Just like many other penalties that have been given this season, that weren't retrospectively complained about.
Chunky Norwich- Posts : 4409
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Re: Stephen Ferris tackle- Was it a yellow card or even a penalty
MrsP wrote:Chunky Norwich wrote:The Irish evidence is all very footballesque as well:
"There is little reaction from the players to the tackle until the referees whistle is blown, and a penalty awarded, followign which there is marked contrast reaction of delight or despair"
That really is a bitter, statement, I think that is the Irish evidence, but it might be the citing commisioenr. Don't know.
Chunky,
The bit you quote is from the video evidence in SUPPORT of the citing complaint!
It is not evidence from the Irish camp.
I think we can all see where the bitterness is coming from.
Sad really.
What do you think I'm bitter about? We're on for a triple crown!
Chunky Norwich- Posts : 4409
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Re: Stephen Ferris tackle- Was it a yellow card or even a penalty
What's with the 'going'?MrsP wrote:Barnes wasn't there. He gave his evidence by phone.
I was just wondering if he had seen the videos or if he just gave his account from the match.
Does it say he saw the videos?
I might be going daft???
AsLongAsBut100ofUs- Posts : 14129
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