Stephen Ferris tackle- Was it a yellow card or even a penalty

Wales won the match after Leigh Halfpenny kicked a penalty with under 1 min to go. Stephen Ferris was given a yellow card for a 'dangerous' tackle, everyone seems to agree yellow was harsh but was it even a penalty or was it just a good tackle?

**EDIT UPDATE from Adam**

The International Rugby Board and Six Nations have backed Referee Wayne Barnes over the penalty decision that led to Ireland's Stephen Ferris being yellow carded during the RBS 6 Nations match at the Aviva Stadium on February 5.

While an Independent Six Nations Disciplinary Panel did not ultimately uphold the citing, the IRB’s match officials performance review endorsed Barnes' decision to award a penalty. On first viewing the panel could understand exactly how the match referee came to his decision. In dismissing the citing no criticism of the referee’s on field decision should be taken or inferred. It was only after careful and prolonged analysis of the dynamics of the contact, including slow motion and step by step viewing, that the committee was able to see the strength of the submissions made in favour of Stephen Ferris.

All match officials are selected for International competition on merit. Performances are reviewed on an ongoing basis and taken into consideration when appointments are made for future international competitions.

Neither organisation will make any further comment on this matter.

Well we have a referee on the forum and he seems to think the foul and card was justified, though Gatland has said the Bradley incident should of been red, but you cant compare fouls just take each against the rules of the game.

Barnes always messes something up, normally against Wales which has in the past cost them a few games, but for once Barnes did something in Wales favour.

So we can cancel out the Shane Williams try he disallowed against Fiji now, though he still owes us for blowing full time after telling us we had time for the line out against Italy and that non tmo kick against South Africa.

Evans' foot stayed in contact with the ground so a fair tackle in my book, unlucky to have the game decided on a poor decision, especially after last year and with Davies only seeing yellow.

Maybe not a yellow but a penalty I would say.

AlynDavies wrote:
Barnes always messes something up, normally against Wales which has in the past cost them a few games, but for once Barnes did something in Wales favour.

So we can cancel out the Shane Williams try he disallowed against Fiji now, though he still owes us for blowing full time after telling us we had time for the line out against Italy

Alyn, I'm sure we've had this before. It was Chris White who did that!

On reflection it was one of those 50-50 calls....but never a yellow card.

Also Ferris shouldnt have tried the type of tackle. it was unnecessary.

The IRB definition of a tip tackle seems to be broken down into 3 types depending on what happens after the player is lifted.

However they ALL refer to LIFTING a player.

How can you lift a player who still has one foot on the ground?

Was it Barnes against italy i thought it was White?

Was at the match. He drove him backwards. It wasn't a penalty. Wales played well and were good value for the win but it was a bad call by barnes.

Bradley Davies should have been given a red. O'Brien's tackle was IMO not even a penalty. And I am Welsh!

I suspect Bradley will be cited and recieve a ban of at least 6 weeks. Also a few Irish cheap shots from Ryan on Adam Jones and Murrey going in with his knees after JD2 had scored.

Sorry LB clear as day on the TV gave Barnes the option was at worst 60-40 in terms of a penalty...

I did not think it was a yellow card. The welsh player still had one foot on the ground. Penalty yes, yellow card no. The yellow card was immaterial though, Ireland were beaten by then.

I am a qualified referee and if that had have happened in a match I was reffing then I would have done the same. It was a yellow and penalty all day long for me. This one leg stuff and 'intent' is irrelevant. The player went beyond the horizontal and was either dropped or driven (I cant quite remember now from the replay) into the ground. Yellow card. Now, if we want a debate on what the law should be then that's another matter and another thread. As the law stands it was a correct decision.

I am also an Irish and Ulster fan by the way.

But, how can you be said to have lifted a player who still has a foot on the ground?

The essential part is that you first have to have LIFTED the tackled player.

I don't rate barnes very highly I must say but he was alright bar the bad call at the end. I reckon barnes thought he was being consistent for the Wales card, I reckon he was wrong.

Sorry, he grabbed the leg and kept going, why?

Penalty

Whether it was yellow or not doesn't matter. It was the end of the game

Bradley - red, ban etc too right , he was stupid if he had just punched the guy in retaliation then no one would mind. The tip thing is just dangerous.

DOD wrote:Sorry LB clear as day on the TV gave Barnes the option was at worst 60-40 in terms of a penalty...

You may as well not bother tackling if thats a pen.

Bradley Davies reacted to a blatant blind-side shoulder charge by Donnacha Ryan to Adam Jones...Bakkies Botha got banned for a similar offence that put Adam Jones out of the game for 6 months. Fair enough, Bradley got carded for it, but something should be done about Ryan's offence too. Also, did anyone else think that Conor Murray's knees in the back of Jon Davies was a tad cynical? Not really much of an attempt to get the ball, was it? A yellow card for both sides was about right...and we won! Woo-hoo!

Murray shouldn't have started in the first place if you ask me. Good player but Reddan's better.

SafeAsMilk wrote:Alyn, I'm sure we've had this before. It was Chris White who did that!

Ok we'll just cancel out the fiji one, but he still owes us one for the South Africa game then.

When does Chris White ref us next?

Murray played well I thought poor form with the knee though. He didn't have clean ball but made us somewhat productive with it.

I hope Bradley, Donncha Ryan and Connor Murray all get cited.

leinsterbaby wrote:Murray shouldn't have started in the first place if you ask me. Good player but Reddan's better.

Ha ha...we already failed misrably with a the Leinster backline, Murray and Kearney were the two outstanding backs today (which doesnt say much)...

Murray did play well but the point is Irelands tactics were too run most of their possession. If kidney knew that was the case why not Reddan? Things move faster with Reddan. I don't understand it at all.

He lifted the leg because he was trying to drive him BACKWARDS not upwards, tackled player tried to keep going forwards, driving down. Horrifically harsh penalty to give at any time.

But just as annoying are the 2 other yellow cards that werent awarded 20mins in, Kearney catches up and under, is tackled and ireland have quick ball in cnetre field just outside welsh 22, murray picks up and is tackled by Falateu comming back from behind the ruck. Most blantent penalty offense, almost certain yellow, Barnes misses it completely. Then of course James Hooks deliberate slapdown when ireland had overlap. Again, almost certain yellow, not even mentioned.

(well played wales btw, but these terrible decisions cost ireland the win)

DOD wrote:

leinsterbaby wrote:Murray shouldn't have started in the first place if you ask me. Good player but Reddan's better.

Ha ha...we already failed misrably with a the Leinster backline, Murray and Kearney were the two outstanding backs today (which doesnt say much)...

Sorry Leinster weren't playing today. Wrong thread.

gowales wrote:I hope Bradley, Donncha Ryan and Connor Murray all get cited.

Only Davies will, why would you even suggest Ryan?

The Murray incident was nothing, it happens in every match when a try is scored.

For Ryan's cheap shoulder charge into Adam Jones in the ruck. Thats the reason why Davies retaliated. Not saying that it warranted Davies lifting him off the ground, a punch or scuffle could have dealt with that.

Penalty no Card.

Anyone it was a matter of time - the way we let them gain 60 years through repeated phases was abject

Why was it even a penalty?

Mostly because Barnes shat himself

Never a yellow card, not 100% on whether it was a pen or no but he did (accidently) get him in a position where Evans' head could have been ground into the floor so I'm leaning towards a yes for the penalty question.

It was a penalty according to the law but common sense says that it wasn't dangerous.

Where does it say a player can't land on his head?

It does say (thank goodness) that a player can't be lifted and dropped or thrown onto his head but if there was no lifting then how was it a penalty?

By the way, take nothing away from wales who deserved their win, but I am confused about why folks think it's even a penalty?

...the pundits said it was
I don't know really, most probably can't be bothered to look at the law book.

Yeah, but loads of pundits said the "other" one at the RWC wasn't even a penalty so what do they know?

I can understand why Barnes could have thought it was a Tip Tackle at the time but I don't see why folk who have seen it a few times think that.

Not whinging just trying to understand.

I just don't see what law he broke?

Same with me i was being sarcastic with the pundit comment.

Ah ha.

Gotchya now!

Did you really not see him get lifted so his hips were above his head and then dropped?

Quite simple guys, the ref gave Wales a penalty so they wouldn't bottle the drop goal again!

Hehehe no worries. Its difficult to express sarcasm through text unfortunately!

But it is kind of true. A lot of people base their opinions of what is happening in the game from what the pundits/commentators say. And if they're not sure about the laws more or less people tend to go with the answer they are given.

Barnes is a total blow job it is true. He does not get close to George Fecking Clancy though. Still

TJ,

Ferris lifted one of his legs while the other stayed on the ground. I don't see how that is Lifting a player.

How can you lift someone in this context while they are still on the ground?

In fact the actual law specifies that you "lift a player from the ground".


Law 10.4(j) reads: Lifting a player from the ground and dropping or driving that player into the ground whilst that player’s feet are still off the ground such that the player’s head and/or upper body come into contact with the ground is dangerous play

Congrats logie28. Spot on! I almost lost my voice pointing out those exact fouls during the game but unfortunately Connacht is too far from the Aviva for me to be heard.

I don't know how the rule is worded but I would presume that lifting one leg above the head could be classed as intent..

Intent to....?

Penalty, not a yellow, but pen was enough for Wales to win

ChequeredJersey wrote:Penalty, not a yellow, but pen was enough for Wales to win

Penalty because...?

It was definately a penalty. Whether or not it was a yellow card is largely irrelevant at that point in the game.
Im sure there were areas that Irish fans will feel aggrieved about just as us Welsh would if Ireland had won there'd be thread after thread of was Bradleys a yellow card, why did Barnes miss Murphys cheap sho on JD, how didn't the cheap shot on Jones end up with a red and more than that, the deliberate knock down when Wales had a three on two in the Irish 22 should have been a yellow and penalty try but nothing happened other than a knock on advantage that was quickly over.
Im sure there are similar Irish grievances too and you could name a equal amount I guess but thats just rugby. Not everything is seen, the ref misses some stuff and if you end up on the losing side you focus on it more.

Wales won, yes it was close but they they were ultimately the more creative side, tried more in attack and looked more dangerous. The ref didnt have the best game but it wasnt his worst game either - at least he was equally good and bad for both sides.

As for it was a yellow. It makes no difference. If Allan Rolland was the ref ( yes I know he couldnt ref it as hes French......sorry I mean Irish) then theres a good chance he would have red carded Davies and Ireland would have definately won. Either way, great game, it was entertaining from start to fininsh and was the best game so far by a mile.

MrsP wrote:Intent to....?

One leg or two above the head does it make a difference ? I'm not defending anybody I just don't think it really matters if it's one leg or two.