Patrice Evra

First topic message reminder :

I'm a Norwich fan so I'm completely unbiased in this whole Suarez/Evra case but I think Evra really doesn't help himself sometimes. I think he is an idiot to be honest. (So is Suarez as well)

Ent wrote:

EnglishReign wrote:

Imperial Ghosty wrote:

EnglishReign wrote:Evra got Suarez banned for 8 games for something which none of us know the full details.

The fact that Suarez admitted using a word shows that he didn't think it racist, whereas Evra's ridiculous statement says he used it 20 times or something. Would you really offer a handshake to someone that racially abused you?

Suarez got himself banned not Evra.

If I was the bigger man then yes, whether he thinks it's racist or not is irrelevant, he should understand the culture of the country he lives and works in, ignorance is no excuse.

The bigger man would've done that in the initial game at Anfield, instead Evra pushed Suarez away and went running to the FA.

Alright mr blatter?

A player takes a stand against racism and gets vilified continually - what a truly depressing outline of the state of our society.

Mr Blatter? I'm not the one that thinks this could all be resolved with a handshake.

He was celebrating in front of HIS home fans, were he doing it in front of the liverpool fans then maybe it would be incitement but it clearly wasn't.

But of course Evra is the one who is in the wrong in all this.

I think, in a perverse way, Evra really enjoyed what went on yesterday.
He has taken to the "victim" role with relish it seems to me.

There is lot of talk here about Suarez's guilt. Personally, i think the FA decision is pretty subjective. Suarez said the word "black "once" according to himself, "at least 10 times" according to Evra and the FA decision came out at 7 times i believe.

Either Evra or Suarez are telling serious lies here. As regards both characters, i believe them both to be of very poor character (even before this).

I don't think we can be bound by the FA decision. If Evra has lied then Suarez was perfectly right not to shake his hand, the problem is we don't know and there is no coroborative evidence from TV or any other player.

It's a terribly unsatisfactory situation.....................

Imperial Ghosty wrote:He was celebrating in front of HIS home fans, were he doing it in front of the liverpool fans then maybe it would be incitement but it clearly wasn't.

But of course Evra is the one who is in the wrong in all this.

Evra was "goading" like a school yard bully. Anyone who doesn't acknowledge this is horribly biased. Even Fergie acknowledged that what Evra did was wrong....................

Fergie hasn't said that actually, he said there was nothing wrong with the celebration but would disagree with Evra deliberately celebrating in front of Suarez which im not sure he did. No bias but not deciding to blame the guy who was the recipient of racial abuse like many on here wish to do, remember why I stopped posting on football forums now.

IG,
are you seriously saying that Evras whipping up of the crowd had nothing to do with Luis Suarez ?

Dignified he was not.







-

Even if it was, he has every right to celebrate or is that somehow wrong?

Evra is an idiot as is Suarez. Kenny and Sir Alex did not cover themselves in glory either. All need to take a look at themselves before they even justify their actions or words. The players showed they weren't big enough to allow the situation to be left in the past. Kenny and Fergie showed they weren't accepting any responsibility for their players action. All of them are a disgrace!

guildfordbat wrote:I'm something of an old timer so can I please start by asking more knowledgeable posters on the modern game a question.

Q. The reason players are shown the yellow card for taking their shirt off in celebration is because it might incite the crowd. Is that correct?

Leaving Suarez aside (just for this post), if the answer to my question above is 'yes', then surely Evra should be reported to the FA for incitement. For me, his post match behaviour went well beyond acceptable celebration and could have had very serious consequences amongst the crowd. A similar comment applies to one of the full back twins (sorry - always get them confused!) who copied Evra in similar fashion.

As an additional comment, I do find the insistence on pre-match handshakes very artificial and, as seen yesterday and before, more likely to cause trouble than harmony. To be meaningful, respect has to be earned and displayed in a natural way. Handshakes and pats on the back are normally best left for after the game, to be given to those who are genuinely considered suitably deserving.

For John Cregan please

John - you seem to know what's what and, unlike too many others, not ridden with bias.

Grateful for any response to my question above and any other comments.

Ferguson wants Suarez to be sold from Liverpool what a toss-pot that old foetus face is.

He was backing Schmeichel when Ian Wright accused him of racism now he's mad when the boots on the other foot.

Pleb.

Was Schmeichel ever found to be guilty of racial abuse? No he was not, anyway i'm going to leave this debate to the prejudicial of you.

Imp.

Guess who was on the FA Panel in the Evra racism case?

Yes one of those men was none of than David Gill chief executive on Manch U.

I don't even like Liverpool but I can see what Evra and Ferguson is like good on Dalglish sticking up for his man.

I'm not a fan of the pre-match handshake, never have been and never will be, can't remember when they started but it looks and feels like a cheap immitation of the Champions League

As for Evra and Suarez, I find both of them very hard guys to like and unless you're a fan of the teams they play for I doubt you'd truly like them

Now as for who was to blame yesterday, I can't see past laying the blame at Suarez, whether he still proclaims his innocence or not, he was banned for 8 games for making a racist comment, he didn't appeal which in accepting his punishment without a fight can be viewed as an admission of guilt or at least an acceptance of it, if I didn't do nothing wrong I'd certainly not take a punishment without a fight

Now with that in mind, the 'victim' and I use that wordd loosely but the victim extends a hand, if Suarez felt so strongly against Evra and what he percieved as defamation then he should have appealed the punishment, he didn't though so if anything he should have been the one wanting to make the first move, then at half time he decides to blooter the ball into the United dug out and it caused a bit of a rammy at half time

Suarez played his part in winding it right up yesterday, Evra who was the victim of racism at the hands of the player then tries to shake his hand but gets snubbed, he then sees the player volley a ball directed at his own teams dug out, and then and only then when the game is over does he give Suarez some medicine by rubbing the victory right in

For me football is a passionate game and it would be dull without all the other aspects to it rather than a straight forward game, I definitely don't include racism in that but winding one another up is nothing new and part of the game I enjoyed ever since I played my first 11s game when I was 9 years old

I don't think in the grand scheme of things either did much particularly wrong except Suarez launching the ball into the dug out but from a personal point of view I wouldn't be rushing to shake either one of their hands as I don't particularly like how either men come across

Handshakes for me is a sign of respect, if someone has done enough to earn your respect then at the end of the game you have a choice to congratulate them and offer your hand in professional appreciation of their game, it's organic, a pre-match handshake is as plastic as Tony Cascarino's Irish passport

This whole Suarez/Evra think should have been put to bed yesterday. If Evra offered his hand, Suarez should have accepted the handshake and put the whole insident behind them once & fall all.

Unfornetly this will now move onto next season with the home & away fixtures. Suarez clearly did something wrong otherwise he wouldn't have been banned for 8 games. Now as a United fan, I think players are entitled to celebrate winning again against their long time rivals but to suggest Evra didn't know he was doing it infront of Suarez can't be right. Evra shouldn't have done that and for me as added more fuel to the fire. I don't understand how Kenny can back his player through this though. How can he also go through the entire game not knowing what had gone on before the match either? He says he wasn't there so where was he? and are you telling me that nobody would have informed him if he didn't see the handhsake incident? I'm not buying it, Both players played their parts yesterday and were as bad as each other.

Evra has played the race card before....

Suarez is from Uruguay where culturally its very different...they even have a black striker in the Uruguay team whos nickname is the monkey...

I dont believe Suarez thought he was saying anything bad and thats why he was not found to be a racist....but was found guilty because he did say something he should.

However evras jumping about at the end was a joke...and had i been Suarez i was have punched the cr$p outta Evra.,...

You get booked for taking your shirt off because it is considered offensive to see a bare chest in some countries the epl is televised in - nothing to do with crowd incitement - this is common knowledge.

I find the direction this thread has headed in disgraceful, continually vilifying the victim and calling him a liar. Suggestions of collusion etc leave a very sour taste.

Astounding levels of ignorance have been shown during this discussion and I will leave you to it.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Evra has played the race card before....

Suarez is from Uruguay where culturally its very different...they even have a black striker in the Uruguay team whos nickname is the monkey...

I dont believe Suarez thought he was saying anything bad and thats why he was not found to be a racist....but was found guilty because he did say something he should.

However evras jumping about at the end was a joke...and had i been Suarez i was have punched the cr$p outta Evra.,...

Pure and simple that is absolute garbage, football fans are a disgrace to this country.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Evra has played the race card before....

Suarez is from Uruguay where culturally its very different...they even have a black striker in the Uruguay team whos nickname is the monkey...

I dont believe Suarez thought he was saying anything bad and thats why he was not found to be a racist....but was found guilty because he did say something he should.

However evras jumping about at the end was a joke...and had i been Suarez i was have punched the cr$p outta Evra.,...

So in your minds eye Suarez making a racist comment to Evra was just 'cultural difference' and Evra celebrating was 'a joke' and worthy of assault???

I'm sorry but it's that blatent bias that makes having a discussion with someone like you practically impossible and renders your opinion pointless in terms if having an educated discussion!

As for your cultural difference suggestion, Suarez has played in main land Europe long enough to know the difference, you have to obey the laws of the land, if he really didn't mean to cause offence he would have came out right away, explain what he said, admitted his ignorance then took a course to learn the cultural difference from Urugauy to The United Kingdom so he would be better equipped to understand what's a minimum requirement. For every UK citizen

We know Luis Suarez didn't do that though, are we expected to believe he is an idiot or he is mentally challenged not to understand the cultural difference? What we do know is that he didn't appeal his punishment which is an acceptance of his guilt and therefor he should be the one building bridges if all it really was was 'cultural difference'

guildfordbat wrote:I'm something of an old timer so can I please start by asking more knowledgeable posters on the modern game a question.

Q. The reason players are shown the yellow card for taking their shirt off in celebration is because it might incite the crowd. Is that correct?

That's the excuse for banning it.
In reality I reckon it was stopped because it's the perfect opportunity to get a close-up of the sponsors name on the shirt.

Gaffer, although I am getting tired of sticking up for Suarez, it wasn't his decision whether an appeal went ahead or not, but rather Liverpool FC's decision. It's perfectly possible, and probable, that while the club accepted the punishment and accusation that Suarez still doesn't.

I disagree, when you accept the punishment you accept the guilt, you can't take the punishment without appeal then claim your innocence, if Liverpool madre that decision then they are then responsible for the player and his actions, Liverpool FC stood by him and supported him (let's forget about the T-Shirts debacle) and if Liverpool ask or expect Suarez to represent the club in a professional manor then they themselves have a decision to make becausee he clearly failed

I really can't stand all this sheilding of blame Suarez seems to get, he does no wrong according to some, it's always someone elses fault and it gets more and more tedious with every new excuse

Guildford,
I think the FA (and society in general) seems paralysed by political correctness.
The FA report deemed Suarez not to be a racist (surely the most important finding) yet banned him for 8 games. I have no bias either way but i feel the benefit of the doubt should have gone to Suarez on this occasion. Evras subsequent behaviour is troubling..................

As for the incitement of the crowd, the FA will ignore that for the same politically correct reasons Suarez got an 8 game ban for in the first place..........the same PC reasons Terry was stripped of the England Captaincy................the same PC reasons Capello was forced out...........

Shame on the FA...................

Subsequent behaviour?

It's not political correctness at all, racial abuse has no place in football and can't believe some are trying to justify it.

I reckon Evra will get a hefty fine; no-one's condoning his actions and they were clearly inconsistent with the spirit of everything football. 50K sounds about right.

Being expected to shake hands with someone for whom you have utter contempt is ridiculous, as Ferdinand showed successfully under most radar.

Meanwhile, Dlaglish needs to remind Suarez of his responsibilities to LFC.

Luis Suarez has issued an apology, he said he's let the club and manager down and admits he was in the wrong


That's HIS own take on things, he admits to being in the wrong, hopefully this will put an end to people sticking up for him

Thanks for responses.

I think the whole situation reflects dreadfully on all involved - the players, their clubs, particularly their managers who choose to see only what suits them, the FA and now those supporters who choose to adopt a tribal attitude in seeking to defend actions committed by both parties that are plainly wrong.

Football has always been highly competitive. That is fine and part of the enjoyment. However, for that enjoyment to be fully retained, it needs to be remenbered that, above all, it is a game. Shame on those who encourage us to forget that.

kwinigolfer wrote:I reckon Evra will get a hefty fine; no-one's condoning his actions and they were clearly inconsistent with the spirit of everything football. 50K sounds about right.

Being expected to shake hands with someone for whom you have utter contempt is ridiculous, as Ferdinand showed successfully under most radar.

Meanwhile, Dlaglish needs to remind Suarez of his responsibilities to LFC.

A fine for celebrating a victory? Do be serious.

Imperial - that's right. A hefty fine and lengthy ban for Evra for starters. United and Ferguson would regain some credibility if they imposed it now rather than waiting for the FA to act.

Not defending Suarez at all. His conduct also needs to be addressed.

Sorry thats a joke, he did absolutely nothing wrong, he's fully entitled to celebrate a victory over his clubs fiercest rivals.

Of course he is Ghosty, but not in (effectively) Suarez's face.

And we still have to learn the unexpurgated version of tunnel-gate.

Imperial - Evra is clearly entitled to celebrate but not in what was in my view a reckless manner which was likely to incite the crowd and could have resulted in serious injury. As mentioned earlier, the same comment applies to one of the full back twins (sorry, forget which one) who clearly copied Evra.

Don't think either player should be punished for what they did yesterday (unless something untoward happened in the tunnel)
Suarez refused to shake Evra's hand. Evra celebrated in the vicinity of Suarez.
Event's for which they should both be castigated (Suarez moreso IMO), but I think talk of punishment and heafty fines is over the top.

A lengthy ban

Ferguson said 'Suarez could have caused a riot' but out of the two incidents isn't what Evra did more likely to cause a riot.

Kwini,

Do you really think the FA will ban Evra and fine him??
That won't happen because they see it as a simple bad guy (Suarez) v. good guy (Evra).

I actually believe the FA may have another go at Suarez..........................

Ghostly, please don't accuse me of "condoning racism". Im not doing that, im not bound by the FA report into this matter, i disagree with the findings of it and the resulting punishment and i am am entitled to that view i think........................

Im glad hes apologised and hopefully its over but dont think Evra was brilliant in how he acted yesterday. He definately offered his hand but not as much as other players so I can see the argument saying Suarez didnt think he was offering his hand.

Evra was a joke at the end of the game. He looked like he was running off the pitch then came back on and clearly went for Suarez. Suarez did well not to react. Evra is entitled to celebrate but not like they had won the league!!

Hope its over as its boring the life out of me and I dont support either team! Suarez was proved not a racist so all this posts saying he is, is just wrong.

They wont ban and fine him because Suarez reaped what he sowed, it was he who initiated this mess having racially abused Evra, it really is as simple as that, the sooner he's out of english football the better.

You disagree with the findings on what grounds? He admitted to using racial language and was subsequently, right and fairly lightly banned for it.

guildfordbat wrote:Imperial - Evra is clearly entitled to celebrate but not in what was in my view a reckless manner which was likely to incite the crowd and could have resulted in serious injury. As mentioned earlier, the same comment applies to one of the full back twins (sorry, forget which one) who clearly copied Evra.

Im sorry but this is equally an over reaction as Ferguson claiming Saurez not shaking hands would cause a riot. Neither of these things would have caused a riot.

If he had did this in front of the Liverpool fans, Gary Neville style maybe, but not in front of his own fans on the way to the tunnel.

Look, without going around in circles, he used a word he shouldn't have used (there is a dispute as to the many times, which is important) but i don't believe he was being racist. You do and i respect your right to have that opinion.

If someone called me an "Irish ****" in the middle of a heated argument(which I had started), i wouldn't assume that they were automatically prejudiced against Irish people.

I thought there was more than enough doubt for the FA to have given Suarez the benefit of the doubt but they didn't.............................

My opinion on this is surely not out of this world??

John
Suarez wasn't banned for being a racist.
He was banned for using abusive words with racial connotations.
There is a difference.

IG had Suarz celebrated like that he'd have been vilified and probably be up in front of the FA for it, but because it was Evra it's ok? No chance, yes celebrate but use common sense and don't go anywhere near the guy. There is a reason that Dowd dragged Evra away instantly, Fergie said in his post match interview he shouldn't have done it.

And as for the out of English football rubbish, what Tery has done is a lot worse and he also hasn't apologised yet nobody wants him out of the league in fact some still think he should be England captain.

Hoggy_Bear wrote:John
Suarez wasn't banned for being a racist.
He was banned for using abusive words with racial connotations.
There is a difference.

Exactly Hoggy, that's actually my point. That's why i think the punishment was severe in the extreme.............

John C,
Don't see how they could suspend Evra but could definitely fine him.

Kwini,
I agree with you. I think he behaved badly. But, they will do nothing for fear of being perceived as favouring Suarez/Liverpool in any way. The FA are a politically correct spineless organisation who have no interest in fairness.

hampo171 wrote:IG had Suarz celebrated like that he'd have been vilified and probably be up in front of the FA for it, but because it was Evra it's ok? No chance, yes celebrate but use common sense and don't go anywhere near the guy. There is a reason that Dowd dragged Evra away instantly, Fergie said in his post match interview he shouldn't have done it.

And as for the out of English football rubbish, what Tery has done is a lot worse and he also hasn't apologised yet nobody wants him out of the league in fact some still think he should be England captain.

Yes it would have been worse if Suarez had done for two reasons; 1) it was at old trafford 2) he is the one who has been charged and banned for racial abuse not Evra. People are constantly misquoting Ferguson here, he said he would not agree with deliberately celebrating in front of Suarez but had no issues with his jubilation at the final whistle.

Has Terry yet been found guilty? No he hasn't so calls for him to be kicked out of english football would be a bit premature.

John Cregan wrote:

Hoggy_Bear wrote:John
Suarez wasn't banned for being a racist.
He was banned for using abusive words with racial connotations.
There is a difference.

Exactly Hoggy, that's actually my point. That's why i think the punishment was severe in the extreme.............

Racial abuse is nothing isn't it, I think he got off lightly, any other profression and he would have been sacked or banned for much longer.

IG he clearly says he shouldn't have done it at the end of the interview. I'm really surprised that anyone can defend him doing it so close to Suarez, just look at the picture below. I'm not defending what Suarez did, it was stupid but Evra didn't come out looking great yesterday.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8eio3e1UFP8&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Spoiler:

Why not Suarez reaps what he sows, there is no justification for standing up for that piece of vile scum. Ferguson actually says that if Evra deliberately jumped in front of Suarez then it's wrong something he explains better in the BBC interview.

In my opinion, Suarez was racist towards Evra and did refuse to shake his hand yesterday. But that doesn't excuse Evra who lowered himself to Suarez's level by:

a) Going for Suarez after 20 seconds but instead getting Rio.
b) Going for Suarez in the tunnel which caused a scuffle.
c) Trying to incite Suarez by doing those over the top celebrations near him.

As a matter of fact, I now have a lower opinion of Evra than I do Suarez.

You then are a fool.