England Changes for Wales Match

First topic message reminder :

I think there will be a few changes for Wales.

Most obvious is Dickson for Youngs, think that is a dead cert

Morgan impressed although only briefly, went pretty quiet after a blasting start. Dowson had a much better game and I'd be tempted to move him to 6 to accommodate Morgan, bench Croft, That said if Wood is back, maybe both Dowson and Croft will go. Depends how hard Lancaster wants people to work for the jersey.

Flood certainly gets a start if he comes through the next two weekends OK. Harsh on Hodgson our only try scorer as he may not even make the bench depending on what happens with Farrell

And here the real conundrum. Tuilagi must come in but for who. Farrell or Barrit. For me, assuming Flood plays and kicks Barrit stays and Farrell gets the bench spot, bye bye Charlie.

Lawes I think will need to work to get back in the side. For me he is not as great as people make out, Palmer certainly outplayed him at the WC and he had a much better game today.

Lastly I think Ashton is on borrowed time, but with all those changes inside him i'd probably leave things be for the next match. Oh and Hartley better watch himself IF another decent hooker starts to show.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

I just don't think Youngs is playing anywhere near his potential yet

Agreed. What I was getting at was for the ten mins after half time he was picking and trying to draw the defence before passing, in the first half everything was straight from the base in a most un-Youngs sort of way. He probably needs to be dropped back to Tigers as this England team a)doesn't suit him and b)will destroy his confidence if he stays in it. Lancaster wants to go defensive and kick the ball then he needs to call up Hodgson from LI or maybe Spencer form Sarries the likes of Simpson and Youngs just can't play that style.

Sam why do you and other Tigers' fans not accept that Youngs has been rubbish in the last 2 games?

Who said he played well? I certainly didn't, he doesn't fit this team and he can't play the style Lancaster wants. The entire backs division with the exception of Barritt has been rubbish for the last two weeks and either the style or the personnel need to change if Lancaster wants any hope of a result against Wales.

I wouldnt just blame the style, Youngs is used to being behind a pack that will dominate and that he can freely pop to and get over the gain line that isnt possible with England we cant just slowly rumble up the field like Tigers, which doesnt help him. But his service has been poor and he has failed to put any tempo on the game which didnt help us get over the gain line and gain momentum making us look laboured for the majority of the game. England have kicked too much but it hasnt neccesarily been from 9 and is caused from slow ball. Youngs has lost his spark and its not due to the new regime. I would put him on the bench and hopefully get the performance out of him that we did when he came on against Argentina.

England did pretty well before at shutting down Jamie Roberts.

Problem they have now is there are lots more big strike runners for them to try and nullify - you may have Cuthbert, North,Roberts,Davies running at you let alone Faletau and our forwards.

Could be a brutal game - but if Wales dont sort out the line out we'll be unstuck

England can bolster the back line with giants, even on the bench if there is a perceived threat, strangle Wales in the loose, dominate the lineout and then get Hodgson's charge down game going close to the line.

I'd like to see Borthwick back to really drive home our advantage in the lineout, and Banahan centering the defensive line with Tuilagi, with a licence to roam to the wing on attack. The large hadron collider wouldn't get a particle past those two.

If it's tight near time, then we can bring in Farrell to take the dg role traditionally occupied by Sir Jonny.

Munkian if England use the likes of Morgan,Lawes,Barritt and Tuilagi they could punch holes in the Welsh line.

The bigger they are the harder they fall.

I think there is a certain irony in supporters of Wales, who for years dined out on the prodigious talents of one of the world's smallest players, who historically is by far their most potent attacking weapon, believing that they will now be unbeatable because of the size of their giant wingers.

"Point of order..he only kicked 6 times from 55 possessions, Dickson kicked 4 times from 27 ( a higher percentage)

But lets not let facts get in the way of opinions."

Trouble is you only tell half the story again. Youngs kicks were poor, invariably too long to give any chasers a chance of winning possession. On the other hand Dickson's kick were more measured.

That aside, Dickson passed the ball immediately on arriving at the breakdown where off form Youngs always waits awhile before passing thereby slowing the attack.

The game in 2 weeks at Twickenham remains a 50/50 IMO - England have played pretty poorly in both games but have showed a dogged determination. Of course it will take more than that to beat Wales in a couple of weeks. Whilst the stats show Englands defence to be a little pourous with the opposition thus far failing to capitalise I think that potentially it is the strongest part of their game along with their set piece. I see a very structured kicking game from England and a good defense that may well see them home in this one. If England start to lose their discipline under pressure then we might see something far different and it could be a long 80 minutes if Wales get the uper hand. Wales need a RWC performance to win this one and they will have to play a lot better than they did on Sunday.

We know how much Welsh supporters enjoy listening to Chelsea Dagger and Tom Hark, so they always let us in for at least a couple just so they can have a bit of a sing-along.

I'm not worried at all. I think Wales are hugely over-rated based on a couple of lucky wins. After a couple of lucky refereeing calls handing them a crucial upper hand at vital times in the past few weeks, the pendulum tends to swing back a bit normally.

Trouble is you only tell half the story again. Youngs kicks were poor, invariably too long to give any chasers a chance of winning possession. On the other hand Dickson's kick were more measured.

That aside, Dickson passed the ball immediately on arriving at the breakdown where off form Youngs always waits awhile before passing thereby slowing the attack. .

Did you watch the game or are you just Stuart Barnes? No England player kicked well, nearly all of the kicks (especially the box kicks) were uniformerly drilled down field (as they are at Sarries, except England don't have the Sarries kick chase). Dickson certainly didn't pass straight off the pace, he picked drew up the defence and then released to a runner which is where all his initial momentum came from.

I posted this on another thread, but now seems more appropriate here:

I liked Wales' game on the whole on the weekend. They soaked up a lot of earnest pressure from the Scots, even though I think the Scots had the majority of possession for the match. There were Welsh weaknesses, and I don't think the scrum and forward play is as strong as some make out, but what Wales looked to me was clinical. That's something I think they have lacked previously, and is a dangerous footnote for any team looking to analyse them.

Some claim this game will be a Welsh walk-over, but we all know what happens when good sides come face to face. England, despite some exceptions in the past have generally always looked average against average teams. When it comes to classier opponents however, they seem to raise their game significantly, and i'd expect the same at Twickers (not a happy hunting ground for Wales).

This would be my starting team to face the Welsh:

1. A Corbisiero
2. D Hartley
3. D Cole
4. C Lawes
5. T Palmer
6. T Croft
7. C Robshaw (c)
8. B Morgan
9. L Dickson
10. C Hodgson
11. D Strettle
12. B Barritt
13. M Tuilagi
14. C Ashton
15. B Foden

16. R Webber 17. M Stevens 18. G Parling 19. P Dowson 20. B Youngs 21. T Flood 22. C Sharples

A couple of things about this selection: 1. It's a touch harsh on Farrell given his excellent kicking and fairly solid defensive display, but I have seen little attacking inspiration from him (something that shows more at FH). He is a quality player, but for me needs to add to his game. Barritt has looked superb in defence, and actually attempted to show something in attack against Italy. He will also pair well with Manu.

2. I did toy with the idea of playing 4. Botha 5. Palmer 6. Lawes for a bit more grunt in the pack, but I like Lawes at lock at the moment,. Again seems harsh on Botha who, whilst unspectacular, has performed well.

Ok, so after ignoring the usual idiots that pop up, English fans dont seem too concerned.

In a previous game it was all about nulifying Roberts - whats changed ?

I've never seen Lawes do anything particularly impressive though, he's not the enforcer he should be.

Ireland had some giants who couldn't contain our centres. And its not just their size - they are fast and explosive.

I certianly agree we will need to up our game from our peformance on Sunday to get a win at Twickenham though some of the Welsh players will be more used to playing there than some of the Ebglish side.

beshocked wrote:Munkian if England use the likes of Morgan,Lawes,Barritt and Tuilagi they could punch holes in the Welsh line.

The bigger they are the harder they fall.

what...like George North?

I've only seen a bit of the Leicester game at the weekend, but from what I've heard Flood looked like a man returning from injury. This - combined with the fact that Hodgson hasn't done a lot wrong means that surely Flood makes his comeback from the bench?

Which leaves a bit of a problem in midfield. I really want to see a Barritt/Tuilagi pairing, but I'm less thrilled at the prospect of Hodgson as goalkicker in a game where we will need every 3 points we can possibly get! Also, Farrell would be unlucky in this scenario as he - too - has done everything asked of him.

So maybe the answer is keep it as it is, and then bring in Flood and Tuilagi from the bench, and start them the following week when they'll both be match-fit. The risk here is that we're leaving our most threatening game-breaker on the sidelines, but equally, the first half at least is likely to be all about massive defence and minimising mistakes, so it would be advantageous to bring on Flood and Tuilagi as the game breaks up in the second half...

Munkian, I think English fans would see the game as potentially going either way. The Welsh are much more settled and seem infinitely more fluent, but that's to be expected, England will get better to face Wales.

As far as Lawes goes he has struggles to consistently impose himself in some games, but he's still very young. Bearing in mind he missed a lot of international rugby last season through injury, his last outstanding game was probably Northampton v Ulster in the HEC semi final at MK stadium. He was outstanding. I think Paul O'Connell also credited him as one of the outstanding players he'd played against (in the HEC), which is pretty high praise from such a magnificent player.

damage_13 wrote:well said B91212, my thoughts as well.

Thanks

I actually think we will loose if we attempt to play a tight kicking and defensive game against the Welsh unless the weather is crap as the current Wales back line is just too good not to score when they have the ball in hand. Fair play to Gatland, he stuck with Davies at 13 when plenty of Welsh posters were saying he was a 12 and him and Roberts couldn't play in the same team but now along with the French they are best midfield in the championship. Add to this the back 3 of Cuthbert Halpenny and North (if fit) then these guys will take chances, they are just too good. I've been very impressed by Cuthbert in the game and half he's so far played.

This is the reason I would take a bit of a chance and bring Flood and Tuilagi straight back into the starting line up. Not sure who the Tigers are playing next weekend but give them another run out by all means but we are not always going to win games based on opposing teams botching chances. I stick by the backline I picked on the first page - harsh on Farrell maybe but we need more in attack. Hodgson has been okay but apart from the 2 charge downs he's hardly looked like a potential game changer. He would drop out of the 22 altogether for me.

And can somebody please move Ashton back to the right wing - he's just not bright enough to come in field from the left and track play like he does from the right.

England supporters hope that we can get it together in fixing our leaky defensive line, our wobbly lineout, our counter-rucking philosophy and our ability to string together some coherent attacking play. A lot of this hope rests with returning players Flood, Tuilagi and even Lawes and some of it is with our rookies Morgan and Dickson. It was always thus with England. We big up the guys who we know least about into the next "saviour" it is massively unfair.

Our national coaches destroy talent. Don’t ask me how. I'm not privy to training. As day follows night though that is what they do. It is the no.1 selection criterion for the job.

I like the look of Dickson: he reminds me of Ben Youngs when he started for England. Eventually he'll play like Youngs does now…

Wales supporters know that they have their machine running in fine order in all departments. They too have returning players who will be fighting to get back in this side.

I'm an evidence man myself. Call me old fashioned if you want to but I have seen it from Wales and I have lost faith in English players' ability to pass and catch a rugby ball and to run good enough support lines. If we do string passes together I predict we'll simply go laterally across the field and end up being bundled into touch.

Wales by 12 at Twickenham. 20 if it was Cardiff.
.

I disagree, our lineout is rubbish. Hopefully the return of Alun-Wyn will help stable it. I'd also start with Ken Owens at hooker.

England supporters hope that we can get it together in fixing our leaky defensive line, our wobbly lineout, our counter-rucking philosophy and our ability to string together some coherent attacking play. A lot of this hope rests with returning players Flood, Tuilagi and even Lawes and some of it is with our rookies Morgan and Dickson. It was always thus with England. We big up the guys who we know least about into the next "saviour" it is massively unfair.

Our national coaches destroy talent. Don’t ask me how. I'm not privy to training. As day follows night though that is what they do. It is the no.1 selection criterion for the job.

I like the look of Dickson: he reminds me of Ben Youngs when he started for England. Eventually he'll play like Youngs does now…

Wales supporters know that they have their machine running in fine order in all departments. They too have returning players who will be fighting to get back in this side.

I'm an evidence man myself. Call me old fashioned if you want to but I have seen it from Wales and I have lost faith in English players' ability to pass and catch a rugby ball and to run good enough support lines. If we do string passes together I predict we'll simply go laterally across the field and end up being bundled into touch.

Wales by 12 at Twickenham. 20 if it was Cardiff.
.

munkian wrote:Ok, so after ignoring the usual idiots that pop up, English fans dont seem too concerned.

In a previous game it was all about nulifying Roberts - whats changed ?

I've never seen Lawes do anything particularly impressive though, he's not the enforcer he should be.
Ireland had some giants who couldn't contain our centres. And its not just their size - they are fast and explosive.

I certianly agree we will need to up our game from our peformance on Sunday to get a win at Twickenham though some of the Welsh players will be more used to playing there than some of the Ebglish side.

I think he has a lot of good aspects to his game physically but Ive said it before...i'd like to see him really take control of his lineout skills and become a lineout expert. Then you could have him with a big lump enforcer beside him...that would be a tough Second Row...

I'm sure hes a brute at club level, at international level I've only ever seen him target smaller players or players on the floor

Does he not remind anyone of Bubba Gump with his perementaly hanging lower lip ? Maaffie Muffle ! (Maxi Muscle)

Here's my team for Wales for all the sodding difference it will make

sheridan
mears
stevens
borthwick
botha
moody
dowson
easter
youngs
wilkinson
farrell
banahan
vainikolo
cueto/varndell whatever
monye

whatever

Triangulation wrote:Here's my team for Wales for all the sodding difference it will make

sheridan
mears
stevens
borthwick
botha
moody
dowson
easter
youngs
wilkinson
farrell
banahan
vainikolo
cueto/varndell whatever
monye

whatever

You Ok ?

munkian wrote:I'm sure hes a brute at club level, at international level I've only ever seen him target smaller players or players on the floor

Does he not remind anyone of Bubba Gump with his perementaly hanging lower lip ? Maaffie Muffle ! (Maxi Muscle)

he's lucky he doesnt trip over it

Triangulation wrote:
Our national coaches destroy talent. Don’t ask me how. I'm not privy to training. As day follows night though that is what they do. It is the no.1 selection criterion for the job.

I like the look of Dickson: he reminds me of Ben Youngs when he started for England. Eventually he'll play like Youngs does now…

Don't underestimate the step up to international level. You get so much less time that if you do everything 10% better than you do for your club you still look half as good as you were. It's a tough tough game and the margins are very small. As fans, we English tend to be very quick to criticise when things are not going so well and then explode into ludicrious optimism faster than a Welshman watching George North pull on a game jersey. We have a good team and good coaching staff, we're capable to beating Wales well if we put it together on the day. I hope Lancaster keeps the selection similar and only brings in players where there is overwhelming evidence to suggest they will add impact. At this stage continuity is everything. So let's be confident and when we win, let's realise it's just one game, against Wales, at home and keep our feet on the ground. That's what grand slams are born of.

keep our feet on the ground

followed by

That's what grand slams are born of.

You see what you've done there. Changed the meaning by missing out all of the words in-between.

Really. You do just see what you want to see don't you?

I missed a full stop....

My team for the Wales game would be:

1. Alex Corbisiero
2. Dylan Hartley
3. Dan Cole
4. Mouritz Botha
5. Geoff Parling
6. Tom Croft
7. Chris Robshaw (C)
8. Ben Morgan

9. Lee Dickson
10. Charlie Hodgson
11. David Strettle
12. Owen Farrell
13. Brad Barritt
14. Chris Ashton
15. Ben Foden

16. Rob Webber
17. Matt Stevens
18. Courtney Lawes
19. Phil Dowson
20. Ben Youngs
21. Toby Flood
22. Manu Tuilagi

Parling, Morgan and Dickson have looked good off the bench, while I haven't been 100% convinced by Palmer, Dowson or Youngs. Other than that, it is sticking mostly with "Plan A", which has won us 2 games, but with a definite "Plan B" on the bench (this is assuming Lawes, Flood and Tuilagi are all fit enough and Wood isn't). I would be looking to bring Lawes on for Botha (unless he's having a stormer) and possibly looking to make that change from the start for the France game. Youngs and Flood on together to offer more of a running threat, and Tuilagi on either in the centres or even the wing to offer us a direct running threat. A bit harsh on Turner-Hall and Brown who have had limited game time to prove themselves, but we can't select our team on being kind. They're still in the squad, and they'll get a chance in the summer with the midweek team. We've got a game to win now though, and that's the 22 I'd pick.

Should be a great game; the Welsh line out has performed better in the second half than in the first in both games...not sure why. I don't think England looked very good in either of their two matches, but both were away fixtures. Over-confidence should be discouraged, both in the welsh team and in the welsh public, but starting as favourites will do the boys a power of good. However, write England off at your peril - any team that plays that badly and still wins two on the trot can't ever be discounted.

England need to put Wales out of the game by half time,
Stats show over the last two seasons Wales score more than 70% of their points in the second half.
Fitness? settled nerves? or just the way the game flows?
Either way England need a good start.

Personally the only ones who have stood out for me are Botha and Ben Morgan.

Did Botha stand out because of his red hat?

HammerofThunor wrote:Did Botha stand out because of his red hat?

against his shocking blonde hair and shrek like face he really stood out.

Nope i think he got through a lot of work at the break down and saved his team from the embarrassment of defending quick ball

Martin Johnson wrote:Here's my team for Wales for all the sodding difference it will make

sheridan
mears
stevens
borthwick
botha
moody
dowson
easter
youngs
wilkinson
farrell
banahan
vainikolo
cueto/varndell whatever
monye

whatever

Not bad Mr Johnson

viewtothegym wrote:England need to put Wales out of the game by half time,
Stats show over the last two seasons Wales score more than 70% of their points in the second half.
Fitness? settled nerves? or just the way the game flows?
Either way England need a good start.

Personally the only ones who have stood out for me are Botha and Ben Morgan.

I would agree that England need a good start to settle any nerves we may have, but I wouldn't agree that we need to be out of sight by half time (although it would be nice!) I think as long as we're leading at half-time we've got a chance, but I wouldn't fancy us to overhaul any significant half-time deficit. Saying that, I wouldn't be surprised if neither team got a try in the first half, and if we can get to half-time 9-3 or 12-6 up on the day, then I would definitely consider that half the job done.

robbo277 wrote:

viewtothegym wrote:England need to put Wales out of the game by half time,
Stats show over the last two seasons Wales score more than 70% of their points in the second half.
Fitness? settled nerves? or just the way the game flows?
Either way England need a good start.

Personally the only ones who have stood out for me are Botha and Ben Morgan.

I would agree that England need a good start to settle any nerves we may have, but I wouldn't agree that we need to be out of sight by half time (although it would be nice!) I think as long as we're leading at half-time we've got a chance, but I wouldn't fancy us to overhaul any significant half-time deficit. Saying that, I wouldn't be surprised if neither team got a try in the first half, and if we can get to half-time 9-3 or 12-6 up on the day, then I would definitely consider that half the job done.

Except Wales will score tries and are unlikely to be as profligate with turnover ball as the Italians and far more clinical than the scots. So far England have missed 24 tackles in two games. Both lineouts are flaky so the one area where Scotland and Ireland have attacked Welsh ball is just as much of a worry for the English. Wales should have the edge in the scrum. Wales will be quicker to the breakdown with Warburton and Tipuric back.

As for some of the team selections, Are people really advocating changing your halfbacks, your centre pairing and your number eight for what(with all due respect to the scots and Italians) is going to be your toughest game so far? Flood and Manu are going to be really match fit and firing? Yet without Tuilagi your backs have been about as useful as a Winkle flavoured lollypop when it comes to attacking play.

Allow this squad to develop and give it time. Sometimes I think English fans are as mental as us welsh with unreal expectations for their team. Then I remember its the six nations and empathy isnt allowed.

winkle mods really? I did try to be anatomically precise in my language

robbo277 wrote:My team for the Wales game would be:

1. Alex Corbisiero
2. Dylan Hartley
3. Dan Cole
4. Mouritz Botha
5. Geoff Parling
6. Tom Croft
7. Chris Robshaw (C)
8. Ben Morgan

9. Lee Dickson
10. Charlie Hodgson
11. David Strettle
12. Owen Farrell
13. Brad Barritt
14. Chris Ashton
15. Ben Foden

16. Rob Webber
17. Matt Stevens
18. Courtney Lawes
19. Phil Dowson
20. Ben Youngs
21. Toby Flood
22. Manu Tuilagi

Only change I'd make is not having Flood on the bench. We are starting with two FH's on the pitch, I think having a third on the bench is a poor use of the space. Ideally it should be Sharples, in reality it's more likely to be Brown.

Having read the thread I'm not looking forward to the next two weeks - it reminds me of the build up to the MS game last season on the original 606. Personally I think that, just like last year, it's going to be a lot closer than some of the more bullish Welsh posters expect.

DaveM wrote:

robbo277 wrote:My team for the Wales game would be:

1. Alex Corbisiero
2. Dylan Hartley
3. Dan Cole
4. Mouritz Botha
5. Geoff Parling
6. Tom Croft
7. Chris Robshaw (C)
8. Ben Morgan

9. Lee Dickson
10. Charlie Hodgson
11. David Strettle
12. Owen Farrell
13. Brad Barritt
14. Chris Ashton
15. Ben Foden

16. Rob Webber
17. Matt Stevens
18. Courtney Lawes
19. Phil Dowson
20. Ben Youngs
21. Toby Flood
22. Manu Tuilagi

Only change I'd make is not having Flood on the bench. We are starting with two FH's on the pitch, I think having a third on the bench is a poor use of the space. Ideally it should be Sharples, in reality it's more likely to be Brown.

Having read the thread I'm not looking forward to the next two weeks - it reminds me of the build up to the MS game last season on the original 606. Personally I think that, just like last year, it's going to be a lot closer than some of the more bullish Welsh posters expect.

I see your point, but my reasoning behind putting Flood on the bench would be a step towards rehabilitating him into the starting line-up, possibly in time for the France game. Hodgson has done well to get both our tries so far this Six Nations, but if we can't unlock the Welsh defence at home in the first 55 minutes or so I would like to see Flood given a shot at it, with a view to a permanent switch. Likewise Tuilagi can come on for either Barritt or Farrell really, and if it goes well we can bring him back into the starting line-up for the France game. It is light on back three cover, but I'd have Tuilagi covering wing and Hodgson/Strettle covering full-back in an absolute emergency. Unless he has a blinder against Wales, I'd probably look to bring Hodgson out of the 22 for the France game and bring in a specialist back three player, but I think this intermittent step of Flood on the bench is necessary.

Flood Lawes and Manu would obviously be on the bench, but i it will be a massive test for them to come in around the 50 min mark when Wales seem to start really going for it.

TycroesOsprey wrote:

robbo277 wrote:

viewtothegym wrote:England need to put Wales out of the game by half time,
Stats show over the last two seasons Wales score more than 70% of their points in the second half.
Fitness? settled nerves? or just the way the game flows?
Either way England need a good start.

Personally the only ones who have stood out for me are Botha and Ben Morgan.

I would agree that England need a good start to settle any nerves we may have, but I wouldn't agree that we need to be out of sight by half time (although it would be nice!) I think as long as we're leading at half-time we've got a chance, but I wouldn't fancy us to overhaul any significant half-time deficit. Saying that, I wouldn't be surprised if neither team got a try in the first half, and if we can get to half-time 9-3 or 12-6 up on the day, then I would definitely consider that half the job done.

Except Wales will score tries and are unlikely to be as profligate with turnover ball as the Italians and far more clinical than the scots. So far England have missed 24 tackles in two games. Both lineouts are flaky so the one area where Scotland and Ireland have attacked Welsh ball is just as much of a worry for the English. Wales should have the edge in the scrum. Wales will be quicker to the breakdown with Warburton and Tipuric back.

As for some of the team selections, Are people really advocating changing your halfbacks, your centre pairing and your number eight for what(with all due respect to the scots and Italians) is going to be your toughest game so far? Flood and Manu are going to be really match fit and firing? Yet without Tuilagi your backs have been about as useful as a Winkle flavoured lollypop when it comes to attacking play.

Allow this squad to develop and give it time. Sometimes I think English fans are as mental as us welsh with unreal expectations for their team. Then I remember its the six nations and empathy isnt allowed.

Wales haven't scored more than 2 tries against England in a Six Nations game ever. The last time Wales scored more than 2 tries against England in a Championship game was 1998, when England won 60-26. I'm not suggesting Wales can't score more than 2 tries against England or indeed that they won't score more than 2 tries against England, but to be so certain that Wales are going to score tries appears quite strange to me. There have been worse England teams than this in recent years - for example, no England team has gone to Rome and put Italy to bed since 2006 and no England team has won in Murrayfield since 2004 yet this England team won in Murrayfield and backed it up by beating probably the strongest Italy side we've seen in the Championship in Rome too. Yet in these years (2004-12), Wales have not been able to ever really put England away and, as I mentioned, haven't managed to get more than 2 tries.

Wales are probably playing as good rugby as I've seen them play ever (born in 1988), and have a great chance of winning in Twickenham so soon after their last one - but a win is far from a guarantee. As I said, I think England need the lead at half-time (no matter how small the lead is or scrappy it has been) to grow in confidence, get the crowd believing and have a shot at the match (still just a shot though). I don't think England would be able to overturn a half-time deficit of any substance, as the pressure would start to crank up on this inexperienced England side and they could start to make mistakes.

What I wasn't saying was that if England get a half-time lead they'll win - it will only be half the job.

Last two games v England robbo with the current players! not some that are part of a stat from the turn of the century!
The current bunch who played England last at twickers out scored them on tries

Robbo - history has no bearing on these games, the history that people quote is there to make them feel more comfortable - This is a 50/50 match at Twickenham and Wales will have to be at their RWC best to win. You were born in 1988, an english player of that era wrote in the Telegraph on Sunday and I quote "In 1988 Wales had just picked up a routine win at Twickenham with Adrian Hadley scoring 2 trys" - It's history and whilst it's nice the game in 2 weeks time will not be won by something that happened in the past, indeed this relatively young breed of welsh players seem to disrespect tradition and fear as they did in Dublin where they just went out and played in what is yet another cauldron as you and your Grand Slam heros in waiting discovered. It should be a cracker though

Welsh regions regularly go to England and beat Aviva teams over the last five years.

So we seem the cream of England along with it foreign helpers can't see of Welsh regions who haven't won much, the national team is hardly going to fear playing in Twickers.

Hey Robbo, Honestly Im not trying to wum you so I will explain. The certainty that Wales will score tries comes from them having scored tries consistently since the world cup warmups, that includes three against England in Twickenham. Since then we have scored tries galore. Most tries scored in the RWC group stages and least conceded other than NZ. 8 Tries in their last three games. We didnt win all those games and the match on the 25th is not a certainty but we did and will score tries. If England produce the form that they have so far and wales play as they have been playing there is only one likely outcome.

England didnt concede against the scots but not because of their play (16 missed tackles) They conceded two soft tries against the Italians. I dont see anything in the English defence that will stop the welsh from scoring tries.

There are clear weakness' in the welsh team, Priestlands tactical kickin, Halfpenny under the highball, Cuthberts positioning, the inside ball beating the rush defence. All of these can be exploited but So far I have seen nothing from Englands offensive play. Certainly nothing that is going to trouble the welsh defence and be able to exert periods of pressure and get tries. Welsh indiscipline and penalties will not be enough to win this game.

I honestly think Lancaster could take this group of players forward and really develop a team capable of challenging for the RWC in 2015. At the moment they are way behind Wales France and Ireland in that development process.

Fortunatly Im old enough to remember Wales scoring more than two tries and winning against England. Only two in the year you were born to win the triple crown though, but it was about as conclusive a victory you would see at the time. I think its going to be somthing similar saturday week.

robbo277 wrote:

Only change I'd make is not having Flood on the bench. We are starting with two FH's on the pitch, I think having a third on the bench is a poor use of the space. Ideally it should be Sharples, in reality it's more likely to be Brown.

I see your point, but my reasoning behind putting Flood on the bench would be a step towards rehabilitating him into the starting line-up, possibly in time for the France game. Hodgson has done well to get both our tries so far this Six Nations, but if we can't unlock the Welsh defence at home in the first 55 minutes or so I would like to see Flood given a shot at it, with a view to a permanent switch. It is light on back three cover, but I'd have Tuilagi covering wing and Hodgson/Strettle covering full-back in an absolute emergency. Unless he has a blinder against Wales, I'd probably look to bring Hodgson out of the 22 for the France game and bring in a specialist back three player, but I think this intermittent step of Flood on the bench is necessary.

I don't see why it is necessary. If Flood is playing well enough for Tigers, and if Hodgson hasn't done enough against Wales to retain his starting place, then Flood can come in for the Ftance game. He's experienced enough to not need a gentle re-introduction.

And if Hodgson or Strettle had to come on at FB after 10 minutes we'd be in very serious trouble -did you see how Scarlets expolited Pisi replacing the injured Foden?

TycroesOsprey wrote:
Fortunatly Im old enough to remember Wales scoring more than two tries and winning against England. Only two in the year you were born to win the triple crown though, but it was about as conclusive a victory you would see at the time. I think its going to be somthing similar saturday week.

There was similar 'confidence' from Welsh fans before the game last year. I think it will be a very interesting game.

There was similar 'confidence' from Welsh fans before the game last year. I think it will be a very interesting game..


I don't think there was, nothing like it actually - we had a stack of players out and were not expecting to win -

TycroesOsprey wrote: They conceded two soft tries against the Italians. I dont see anything in the English defence that will stop the welsh from scoring tries.

Oh come off it. You know perfectly well that neither of those tries had anything to do with the England defence. They were just two freak errors from Foden that he's unlikely to repeat.