England Changes for Wales Match

by Armchairexpert Sat Feb 11, 2012 8:23 pm

First topic message reminder :

I think there will be a few changes for Wales.

Most obvious is Dickson for Youngs, think that is a dead cert

Morgan impressed although only briefly, went pretty quiet after a blasting start. Dowson had a much better game and I'd be tempted to move him to 6 to accommodate Morgan, bench Croft, That said if Wood is back, maybe both Dowson and Croft will go. Depends how hard Lancaster wants people to work for the jersey.

Flood certainly gets a start if he comes through the next two weekends OK. Harsh on Hodgson our only try scorer as he may not even make the bench depending on what happens with Farrell

And here the real conundrum. Tuilagi must come in but for who. Farrell or Barrit. For me, assuming Flood plays and kicks Barrit stays and Farrell gets the bench spot, bye bye Charlie.

Lawes I think will need to work to get back in the side. For me he is not as great as people make out, Palmer certainly outplayed him at the WC and he had a much better game today.

Lastly I think Ashton is on borrowed time, but with all those changes inside him i'd probably leave things be for the next match. Oh and Hartley better watch himself IF another decent hooker starts to show.

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Tue Feb 14, 2012 3:49 am

England need to be btter than they have been if they are going to beat wales, anyone who thinks otherwise in living in cloud cuckoo land.
Morgan issurely going to start but youd want to see more than that done to change things up.
Maybe being at home will helpmotivate them to attack bettr and not just wait to be gifted tries before upping the tempo. Two weeks more together might help with organisation of both the attack and defense too, assuming lancaster spends the time wiselyand actually has some plan other than lets copy saracens but not do it as well.
England have been lucky to not pick up new injuries in the last two games, this gives them the option of continuity and there is a lot to be said for that but I do feel we need more than just morgan to lift this side above poor.

by HammerofThunor Tue Feb 14, 2012 7:10 am

Perhaps they can get Phillip Neville in.

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Tue Feb 14, 2012 8:43 am

To be fair he apparently had an ex england player in ( leonard I think ) to talk to them last week. Pity he didnt have johnson, moody, tindall and wilko on the bill as well...

There were improvements against itlay but they do need to keep shifting it up. Hopefuly they are doing more than working on the dressing room playlist, after dinner speakers rota and. Pissing off the scrum halves.

by sirtidychris Tue Feb 14, 2012 8:52 am

I'm of the opinion not to rush all the England stars back into the game, they haven't had much game time, didn't particularly impress in their 1/2 games back for there club and are likely to be injured again if thrown into a starting position in a full international against a very large and quick welsh backline.

Englands defense at the moment is very good what was obvious was that we have been missing any decent quick go forward ball, as soon as morgan and dickson came on we started creating things. What i think will happen is that it will be the same team bar morgan for dowson and dickson for youngs. Flood and Tuilagi will be on the bench in place of JTH and Mike Brown with lawes hopefully in their for botha but likely to be Parling if at all

In my opinion the difference in the welsh team over the past 2 seasons is their fitness, they disappear off to Poland then come back in amazing shape....all international players are fit but from what i've heard they beast them in Poland and you can really tell on the pitch. As with scotland you can hold them for 40 minutes but the difference shows in the last 1/2- 1/4....this is when we bring on tuilagi, flood, lawes, stevens to really make an impact.

by bedfordwelsh Tue Feb 14, 2012 8:57 am

[quote="sirtidychris"]

In my opinion the difference in the welsh team over the past 2 seasons is their fitness, they disappear off to Poland then come back in amazing shape....all international players are fit but from what i've heard they beast them in Poland and you can really tell on the pitch. As with scotland you can hold them for 40 minutes but the difference shows in the last 1/2- 1/4....this is when we bring on tuilagi, flood, lawes, stevens to really make an impact.

Chris,

To a degree you are right but then we just use our bench as well who are just as fit as he main players, with the possibility of us bringing on Rees AWJ and even Hook who did play well last week.

From my point of view I hope Lancaster sticks with the same starting side as I think that would cause us less problems than if he started Dixon, Morgan and Tuilagi.

by Breadvan Tue Feb 14, 2012 11:22 am

I'd bring back Lawes, Manu, Flood and start with Dixon & Morgan. Think about replacing Strettle with Sharples. I know there's an arguement for not changing a winning team but I think we need to for this game. Plus we've been pretty lame in attack.

by bluestonevedder Tue Feb 14, 2012 12:43 pm

Breadvan wrote:I'd bring back Lawes, Manu, Flood and start with Dixon & Morgan. Think about replacing Strettle with Sharples. I know there's an arguement for not changing a winning team but I think we need to for this game. Plus we've been pretty lame in attack.

I agree. Morgan gave real thrust and power in attack, and provided a good platform for quick attack.

I'm worried about Strettle's defence on the wing against Wales. Even though he's considerably improved that area, Wales' wingers are a different breed entirely, and I think he'll really struggle. I get the impression Sharples is a lot more tenacious in defence, and so might look to bring him in, just as you said.

by Geordie Tue Feb 14, 2012 12:51 pm

Breadvan wrote:I'd bring back Lawes, Manu, Flood and start with Dixon & Morgan. Think about replacing Strettle with Sharples. I know there's an arguement for not changing a winning team but I think we need to for this game. Plus we've been pretty lame in attack.

Has Tuilagi and Lawes actually played a game for Leicester or Saints yet? If not, then theres no way they should be included.

If they have..and performed well..then i can certainly make a case for them on the bench...

I do however agree with Morgan and Dickson to start....

by bluestonevedder Tue Feb 14, 2012 12:58 pm

Tuilagi played against Exeter on the weekend. We lost, and I didn't see the game, but according to the stats Manu apparently had a good game. Made about 60 meters apparently, so hopefully looks to have returned with some good form.

Unsure about Lawes, but think he could make the England bench for the Wales game.

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Tue Feb 14, 2012 1:02 pm

Tuilagi was ok, vedder, less rusty than Flood but not yet back to his barricking best

by bluestonevedder Tue Feb 14, 2012 1:14 pm

Ah thanks for that ASLongAs Ale

Did he make a lot of good breaks? Was his defence good?

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Tue Feb 14, 2012 1:48 pm

A handful of breaks and solid D, one swinging arm that he was lucky to get away with, and took out Camacho in the air to avoid a certain try in the corner from a x-field kick - 6/10

by Breadvan Tue Feb 14, 2012 2:08 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:
Breadvan wrote:I'd bring back Lawes, Manu, Flood and start with Dixon & Morgan. Think about replacing Strettle with Sharples. I know there's an arguement for not changing a winning team but I think we need to for this game. Plus we've been pretty lame in attack.

Has Tuilagi and Lawes actually played a game for Leicester or Saints yet? If not, then theres no way they should be included.

If they have..and performed well..then i can certainly make a case for them on the bench...

I do however agree with Morgan and Dickson to start....

I don't think it'd matter that much tbh Geordie. Their not novices and could fit straight back in..

by englandglory4ever Tue Feb 14, 2012 3:55 pm

munkian wrote:I disagree, our lineout is rubbish. Hopefully the return of Alun-Wyn will help stable it. I'd also start with Ken Owens at hooker.

I liked the topic strange how every one gets turned around to what the welsh think Wales should be doing? Headscratch

by Alex_Germany Tue Feb 14, 2012 4:29 pm

If I were Lancaster I'd offer Leicester Flood and Manu T this weekend (perhaps on condition they're subbed after 60 minutes - after all it's a Sunday game). Game time is more important than rest for them. Then decide if they come back on the bench or straight in.

I'd also do the same with Youngs. See if he does any better with Flood.

by munkian Tue Feb 14, 2012 4:49 pm

englandglory4ever wrote:
munkian wrote:I disagree, our lineout is rubbish. Hopefully the return of Alun-Wyn will help stable it. I'd also start with Ken Owens at hooker.

I liked the topic strange how every one gets turned around to what the welsh think Wales should be doing?

Then why not contribute xomethign positive to it rather than picking imaginary faults ?

I was replaying to an English poster who said Wales beat England in every facett of the game.

Try the football forum if you are bored, they probably have thread upon thread of fans just typing EN-GER-LUND over and over and over and over....

by beshocked Tue Feb 14, 2012 4:54 pm

Alex_Germany wrote:If I were Lancaster I'd offer Leicester Flood and Manu T this weekend (perhaps on condition they're subbed after 60 minutes - after all it's a Sunday game). Game time is more important than rest for them. Then decide if they come back on the bench or straight in.

I'd also do the same with Youngs. See if he does any better with Flood.

You aren't a Leicester fan by any chance are you? warning

I think Flood, Youngs and Manu should be stay with the England squad. I hope Barritt,Hodgson,Botha,Farrell,Stevens and Strettle are all released by England.

by BigTrevsbigmac Tue Feb 14, 2012 5:13 pm

beshocked wrote:
Alex_Germany wrote:If I were Lancaster I'd offer Leicester Flood and Manu T this weekend (perhaps on condition they're subbed after 60 minutes - after all it's a Sunday game). Game time is more important than rest for them. Then decide if they come back on the bench or straight in.

I'd also do the same with Youngs. See if he does any better with Flood.

You aren't a Leicester fan by any chance are you?

I think Flood, Youngs and Manu should be stay with the England squad. I hope Barritt,Hodgson,Botha,Farrell,Stevens and Strettle are all released by England.

I think it is a fair point giving more game time to Manu T and Flood who have both been out for a while. Not so with Youngs.

Beshocked , It wasn't long ago that Borthwick was Sarries only contribution to the National cause. Welcome to the party!

by slartibartfast Tue Feb 14, 2012 6:09 pm

So have Flood and Manu got games this coming weekend if released?

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Tue Feb 14, 2012 6:10 pm

Full AP fixture list this weekend

by slartibartfast Tue Feb 14, 2012 6:24 pm

I'd get Flood and Manu playing ASAP and pick' em for Twickers!!!

By far Englands best players - in my welsh view.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love hodgeson to play against Wales Smile

by bedfordwelsh Tue Feb 14, 2012 7:01 pm

I would be far happier facing the English back line as it now rather than with Flood and Tuilagi back in there.

by DaveM Tue Feb 14, 2012 7:24 pm

RubyGuby wrote:
There was similar 'confidence' from Welsh fans before the game last year. I think it will be a very interesting game..

I don't think there was, nothing like it actually - we had a stack of players out and were not expecting to win -

The old 606 was dominated by hugely over-confident Welsh fans in the build up to the MS game. Wales are a good side, certainly more developed than England, but there aren't many Welsh players there England haven't faced before. England are progressing and at home. It'll be tight.

by DaveM Tue Feb 14, 2012 7:28 pm

bedfordwelsh wrote:I would be far happier facing the English back line as it now rather than with Flood and Tuilagi back in there.

I'd imagine you'd be much happier to see Flood kicking against you.

Farrell's goal-kicking does cause Flood a problem as if Flood starts missing kicks then the general level of confidence in him will start to drop rapidly. And if Flood isn't doing the goal-kicking is he really that much better than Hodgson at FH?

I'm expecting the same 10,12,13 combination to start, and Tuilagi to come on after an hour and make a big impact.

by charliehesketh Tue Feb 14, 2012 8:11 pm

[quote="thomh"][quote="Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler"]Ashton, like Strettle really hasnt had a chance to do anything yet.

I'm no expert on wingers, but on a couple of occasions it looked to me as if Ashton was a little less than willing in defence - didn't go for the tackle on interception try. It may have been the camera angle, so I will prepare to be proved wrong ! Maybe I'm getting old, but Ashton's attitude doesn't seem to be great.

by charliehesketh Tue Feb 14, 2012 8:12 pm

Well I messed that up as my first post ! Very Happy

by robbo277 Tue Feb 14, 2012 8:37 pm

TycroesOsprey wrote: Hey Robbo, Honestly Im not trying to wum you so I will explain. The certainty that Wales will score tries comes from them having scored tries consistently since the world cup warmups, that includes three against England in Twickenham. Since then we have scored tries galore. Most tries scored in the RWC group stages and least conceded other than NZ. 8 Tries in their last three games. We didnt win all those games and the match on the 25th is not a certainty but we did and will score tries. If England produce the form that they have so far and wales play as they have been playing there is only one likely outcome.

England didnt concede against the scots but not because of their play (16 missed tackles) They conceded two soft tries against the Italians. I dont see anything in the English defence that will stop the welsh from scoring tries.

There are clear weakness' in the welsh team, Priestlands tactical kickin, Halfpenny under the highball, Cuthberts positioning, the inside ball beating the rush defence. All of these can be exploited but So far I have seen nothing from Englands offensive play. Certainly nothing that is going to trouble the welsh defence and be able to exert periods of pressure and get tries. Welsh indiscipline and penalties will not be enough to win this game.

I honestly think Lancaster could take this group of players forward and really develop a team capable of challenging for the RWC in 2015. At the moment they are way behind Wales France and Ireland in that development process.

Fortunatly Im old enough to remember Wales scoring more than two tries and winning against England. Only two in the year you were born to win the triple crown though, but it was about as conclusive a victory you would see at the time. I think its going to be somthing similar saturday week.

Don't worry, as a rule I try not to reply to people I think are wumming me and I didn't get that impression from you, we just have a difference of opinion. I think it will be a tight game and, even though this is the best Wales team I've seen, I wouldn't be surprised if it finished low scoring. I wouldn't bet against something like Wales outscoring England 2 tries to 1 but England edging it with kicks.

by doctor_grey Tue Feb 14, 2012 8:57 pm

I think it will be hard for Flood and Manu Tuilagi to get match fit in just a couple of weeks. Perhaps club match fit, but probably still a step off International level. I would have them on the bench as I think they would probably be OK for 20 or 25 minutes.

Morgan and Dickson seem to be locked in, at least to most of us here. I am sure Lancaster will heed out opinions.

About the wings, I find it hard, nigh on impossible, to look at a player and guage his attitude. Ashton still comes inside looking for work but seems half a step slow. Perhaps the same post-RWC hangover (not literal, of course) that effects Youngs and others. Strettle managed to get his uniform dirty against Italy, but I am not sure how. He will be targeted by Wales, and I worry about his defense. But is Sharples' defense any better?

by charliehesketh Tue Feb 14, 2012 9:41 pm

Aha but Doctor Hesketh can see into Ashton's mind .... a front row trick ! Wink

by DaveM Tue Feb 14, 2012 10:14 pm

doctor_grey wrote:I think it will be hard for Flood and Manu Tuilagi to get match fit in just a couple of weeks. Perhaps club match fit, but probably still a step off International level. I would have them on the bench as I think they would probably be OK for 20 or 25 minutes.

I still don't see how you can have 3 FHs in the matchday 22 and no specialist back 3 cover.

by Alex_Germany Wed Feb 15, 2012 12:13 am

beshocked wrote:
You aren't a Leicester fan by any chance are you?

I think Flood, Youngs and Manu should be stay with the England squad. I hope Barritt,Hodgson,Botha,Farrell,Stevens and Strettle are all released by England.

Not a fan of Leicester - I support London sides. I do think however that Flood + Allen + Tuilagi is the best 10,12,13 combination in England, perhaps even in Europe. Tough on Saracens because Hodgeson, Farrell and Barritt have played a lot.

If Manu and Flood to well, then we have Flood + Barritt + Manu, otherwise stick with the Saracens unit, which is pretty good.

by doctor_grey Wed Feb 15, 2012 4:59 am

DaveM wrote:
doctor_grey wrote:I think it will be hard for Flood and Manu Tuilagi to get match fit in just a couple of weeks. Perhaps club match fit, but probably still a step off International level. I would have them on the bench as I think they would probably be OK for 20 or 25 minutes.
I still don't see how you can have 3 FHs in the matchday 22 and no specialist back 3 cover.

Dave, I agree, This means either Farrell or Hodgson takes a seat out of the 22. It might be hard luck to sit Hodgson after his two blocks, But if he stands so deep on attack, he is no better than Farrell, and England need Farrell's boot.

by lostinwales Wed Feb 15, 2012 2:08 pm

The big issue with Hodgson is that we dont want to rely on his place kicking - so if he plays then we are almost guaranteed in needing Farrell playing (it wouldnt surprise me if he has the best kicking stats in the 6N so far)

Lineout has been a little disappointing - last year Hartley's throwing in was excellent - but things should improve

by Chjw131 Wed Feb 15, 2012 2:14 pm

As I posted on my Players Released thread, it seems that Parling will be starting for Palmer v Wales. I would think to add some line-out discipline.

by niwatts Wed Feb 15, 2012 3:24 pm

lostinwales wrote:The big issue with Hodgson is that we dont want to rely on his place kicking

Hodgson is far from a bad kicker, he's the AP's all time top points scorer (1,926, the next highest being on 1,562). Farrell may well be better at the moment, and I'm not saying that Hodgson should be selected, but the suggestion that Hodgson is an incapable kicker is ridiculous.

by pbuk0 Wed Feb 15, 2012 5:02 pm

My Team against Wales;

1 Corbs
2 Webber
3 Cole
4 Laws
5 Palmer
6 Croft
7 Robshaw
8 Morgan
9 Dickson
10 Flood
11 Strettle
12 Barratt
13 Manu
14 Aston
15 Foden
16 Doran Jones
17 Hartley
18 Parling
19 Dowson
20 Youngs
21 Farrell
22 Joseph

by bedfordwelsh Wed Feb 15, 2012 5:05 pm

As a neutral observer I think that if he drops Farrell for Tuilagi then he also has to bring Flood back in for his goal kicking.

by miteyironpaw Wed Feb 15, 2012 5:07 pm

Hodgson's kicking is better than Flood's at the moment. Not sure of your logic. I'm also not sure than Flood has the same charge down game.

by robshaw4england Wed Feb 15, 2012 6:20 pm

I'm pretty sure Lancaster will swap Morgan for Dowson and Dickson for Youngs, I'd like him to also swap Parling for Palmer to sure up the lineout, whilst Parling is also very impressive around the park.

I reckon Flood and Tuilagi will be bench options with England carrying on with Hodgson, Farrell and Barritt.

Unfortunate on Mike Brown who on current form deserves to have a place in the matchday squad.

by king_carlos Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:26 pm

Agree with people on Ashton his defence is shocking at times!

If you want a reference look at his attempted tackle on matt smith in Leicester vs Sarries game earlier in the season! Feel for him a little however as he is a proven finisher but doesn't get much chance to demonstrate that with this England attack. Desperately need Tuilagi back for some go forward.

I'd go for:

1.Corbs
2.Hartley
3.Cole
4.Lawes
5.Palmer
6.Croft
7.Robshaw
8.Morgan

9.Dickson
10.Flood

11.Ashton
12.Barritt
13.Tuilagi
14.Strettle
15.Foden

16.Webber
17.Stevens
18.Botha
19.Dowson (Wood if fit - haven't heard much on him lately)
20.Youngs
21.Farrell
22.Sharples

Time to take a leaf out of Gatland's book in my opinion - if they're fit and they're the best we've got play them!

by Pot Noodle Miner Wed Feb 15, 2012 11:00 pm

He should stick with the same team IMO, why change a winning formular?

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