Draft Discussion... why did you make that pick ?

Let us know why you made that pick, post here a few lines to explain that all important 1st pick.

I'd be interested to hear why Barney chose Kalil over Blackmon for the Rams, I would have gone for Blackmon but both picks make sense

Yeah I was between the two players BrownTown. I would've prefered to trade down 2 or 3 places and I would've taken whoever was still there. Since no-one took the bait I had to choose between them. I went for Kalil because if I was actually the Rams I would try and get one of the good receivers on free agency. There are some good options for established receivers. That was what tipped me in Kalil's direction.

Barney92 wrote:Yeah I was between the two players BrownTown. I would've prefered to trade down 2 or 3 places and I would've taken whoever was still there. Since no-one took the bait I had to choose between them. I went for Kalil because if I was actually the Rams I would try and get one of the good receivers on free agency. There are some good options for established receivers. That was what tipped me in Kalil's direction.

Good pick IMO. In the modern NFL the guys on the OL are among the most important after the QB. Rams fans might not like the pick as I think the consensus is that their OL did not perform to its talent level but Kalil gives them a potential franchise LT and the opportunity to kick either Saffold or Smith inside to OG. I think it's tough to take a WR that high unless it's a Calvin Johnson type talent which, while very good, Blackmon is not. (In fact depending on what his weight is and what he runs in the 40 at the Combine I wouldn't be surprised if Floyd challenges him for the top WR spot) WR also looks to be a fairly deep position.

I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one who would've picked Kalil. Makes me feel better about the pick.

The Rams need help keeping Bradford upright a WR would be fan pick, but he is not going to be any good if Bradford keeps getting knocked down.

Am I the only one that thinks Blackmon is overrated? I know he's good, but top 5 pick good?

Lowlandbrit wrote:Am I the only one that thinks Blackmon is overrated? I know he's good, but top 5 pick good?

I agree with you, I don't think Blackmon is better than Floyd to be honest.

Bradford didn't finish the season so it's a good pick

Yeah Kalil is a good pick. Theres a much better chance of getting a good WR in free agency than getting an elite LT.

A good lt will last 10 years and play at a high level, a wr may be gone in a few years, agree that wr's are always on the market but a good left tackle is never available

Lowlandbrit wrote:Am I the only one that thinks Blackmon is overrated? I know he's good, but top 5 pick good?

I don’t know about overrated but it’s tough to call him a top 5 talent when you compare him to the WR prospects taken in the top 5 in recent years listed below. I think most rankings have him ~ top 10 which I don’t think is a stretch.

2011, AJ Green, 6’4, 210lbs, 4.48
2011, (Just outside top 5 at #6) Julio Jones, 6’3, 220lbs, 4.39
2007, Calvin Johnson, 6’5, 239lbs, 4.35
2005, Braylon Edwards, 6’3, 215lbs, 4.45
2004, Larry Fitzgerald, 6’3, 225lbs, 4.48
2003, Andre Johnson, 6’2, 230lbs, 4.41
2003, Charles Rogers, 6’3, 220lbs, 4.43

The WRs listed are all bigger, faster and more explosive downfield threats compared to Blackmon. Blackmon at 6’1, 210lbs is projected to run in the high 4.5 to low 4.6 range, he’s clearly not a burner when you watch him play but he might run slightly faster than people expect him to IMO, maybe low 4.5s. He comes from an Oklahoma State spread offense where he catches a lot of slants and screen passes, works the middle of the field and is strong after the catch. He has the potential to be moved around in the offense, slot/outside and become a very good possession type receiver.

I’m going out on a limb in suggesting that Michael Floyd could challenge him to be the #1 WR selected but I feel that when fully fit, he’s had some injury problems over his college career, Floyd flashes top 5 potential. He’s worked with Charlie Weiss at Notre Dame and has some experience of pro style offensive concepts. He bulked up and lost some of his speed and explosion but he’s supposedly dropped weight and is now back in the 220lbs range, healthy and projected to run in the 4.4s at the Combine. We’ll see.

I agree that floyd is talented enough to be considered as the top receiver in the draft, I've said on here before that blackmon is good but i wouldnt use a top 5 pick on him. Floyd has better hands and is one of the most nfl ready blockers at his position in a while, sounds silly but because he is a senior, i feel people devalue him

Barney92 wrote:Yeah I was between the two players BrownTown. I would've prefered to trade down 2 or 3 places and I would've taken whoever was still there. Since no-one took the bait I had to choose between them. I went for Kalil because if I was actually the Rams I would try and get one of the good receivers on free agency. There are some good options for established receivers. That was what tipped me in Kalil's direction.

Yeah I actually agree with you now, it's easier to find a starting WR in the 2nd round than a starting LT in the 2nd round so with that in mind I think it's probably actually the better pick

Yeah, if I had been picking 6th-10th I might've been more tempted to go Blackmon if he was still around because there would've been less risk I suppose.

I think the Seattle trade up makes a huge amount of sense, RGIII would really help the Seahawks and he is worth the large amount given up for him

I think when the real draft comes around there is gonna be a bunch of teams trying to trade up for RGIII. I would say Cleveland, Washington, Seattle and maybe Jacksonville, so St Louis has to decide whether to give up its pick for a whole bunch of picks or whether you should take Kalil and let the Vikings trade away for a bunch of picks.

Rams would be better trading back and try to stay within the top 12, there are still some OT who will be on the board, the Rams need a lot of holes filling and and extra 2nd and 3rd will allow them to pick up starters in other positions

There are so many possibilities going into the draft. I mean if Luck has a dreadful combine and RGIII has a beast one, why wouldn't the Colts take RGIII?

Yeah I agree Leeds, there would be a lot more value for them by trading back. They need more than just one or two players I feel.

I've read some bits and pieces in the Washington media that have said that Redskins have already decided that they won't be trading up in the draft to grab Griffin (or Luck I guess) cos the asking price will just be too steep. If a QB was all we needed then it might be different but I can certainly understand them deciding that we need to keep every draft pick that we have given how crippled we ended up being last season due to a lack of depth. Could all just be a part of the game of keeping their cards close to their chest but I could understand why they might choose to keep those picks. For what it's worth though, I'd love it if we somehow end up getting our hands on Griffin!

surprised you changed your pick derby, cleveland have no receivers but already have a top corner

Yeah I was surprised by the pick Derby but can see you reasoning. The Browns would have two top class corners and a wide receiver can be picked up in free agency, someone like Desean Jackson or Vincent Jackson.

niner wrote:surprised you changed your pick derby, cleveland have no receivers but already have a top corner

Got cold feet on Blackmon, I think I prefer Floyd but he wouldn't be taken 4th but in the actual draft I think they'll be taking Blackmon if he was there. Claiborne and Haden mean we can shut down pretty much every pass first offense, a pick helping the front seven against the run and we've got one of the best defenses in the league (already one of the best for defending the pass), and defense wins the AFC North Championship. I can see why it could be a "wasted" pick but as I've been busy didn't have the time to look at trading down, but some people may be getting PMs later in the 1st round about trades.

fair enough he is a really good talent, my favourite player in draft, sort of hope st louis love kalil and the vikes can do a deal with the redskins for rg3 and take claiborne and still trade up for a tackle in the 1st

NFL Mike why did you go for Blackmon, was surprised u didnt trade up for RGIII

I might have taken RG3 had he still been available though I not sure a running QB will be winning the Super Bowl anytime soon.

The Redskins need to strength their offence and Washington born Andrew Luck would have been ideal but trading up to 1st pick is/ was not likely. If the RG3 had gone first then maybe could have traded up for Luck in 2nd...

I seen a few college bowl games and Blackmon was the stand out player for me in all positions. I think the Redskins could make a move for Peyton Manning or possibly Matt Flynn so having someone to throw the ball to would definite be an advantage.

I probably would have picked up whoever Derbyblue left out of Blackmon and Claiborne. Floyd would have probably have been next on the list.

Having seen the trade for 5th, I was not surprised to see ollyrules/ Lions pick up Trent Richardson. He would be a good fit in Detroit.

ollyrules wrote:There are so many possibilities going into the draft. I mean if Luck has a dreadful combine and RGIII has a beast one, why wouldn't the Colts take RGIII?

I think RG3 would be a better fit for the Colts with their lack of a decent RB.

Wow, massive move for the Lions! Can't really see it happening as they already have Jahvid Best, Kevin Smith, and the guy they took in the second round last year Mikel Leshoure. He had a lot of hype prior to the draft but got injured in pre season, I think Detroit would at least want to see what they have with him before moving on. I think they would take a corner or a left tackle before a running back, but interesting pick anyway!

NFL MIKE wrote:Having seen the trade for 5th, I was not surprised to see ollyrules/ Lions pick up Trent Richardson. He would be a good fit in Detroit.

Personal I don't like that trade, the Lions still have to see what LeShore has to offer as he was out injured for his first year. Not to mention that Detriot is a pass first offense, I'd have gone for Blackmon if I were the Lions trading that high - can you imagine Johnson and Blackmon as a receiving duo? Scary thought. It just seems to me like a heck of a lot to give up for an aspect of the game which is not as vital as it used to be. Well done Prawn.

That's alot to pay for the Running Back position with the league and how it continues to go, he may be the best prospect since AP but with Detroits luck with running backs they should just sign everyone single one that hits UFA to the practice squad and have them on a conveyor belt to the starting team.

Here's my question do the Redskins really take Blackmon (if he's there which may not happen) or try to engineer a trade?

If Blackmon's there I think the skins would take him, their's terrible at WR and Blackmon gives them a genuine number 1 WR. RG3 and Luck won't be on the board then and no other QB is worth a number 6 pick so it makes sense for them in my opinion. With a decent FA QB (a lot of ifs here but say the Titans took Peyton and released Hasselbeck the Skins could pick up and with him, Blackmon and a decent FA WR they have a strong looking offense with their TE's and RB's, which they need in their division playing against Manning Vic and Romo twice a year) they could be sneaky playoff team for next season with their solid D that tend to keep them in games.

Edit: I could see perhaps the Pats trading up with their two first rounders, I have a feeling this may be the year Bill cashes in on his pick pile.

I picked Richardson because I thought he's too good to miss on especially with the Lions lacking any sort of a running game all year. Yes there are needs at Cornerback and on the offensive line but the CB position can be addressed in Free Agency and the Offensive Line later on in the draft. With Richardson in the backfield it gives them a two dimensional offense also allowing the play action pass to become a serious option. Teams would have to think about the run as well which means more guys coming and therefore more room (in theory) for Megatron and Titus Young.

#03: *TRADE* SEA-Robert Griffin III, QB, Baylor
#04: CLE-Morris Claiborne, CB, LSU
#05: *TRADE* DET-Trent Richardson, RB, Alabama
#06: WAS-Justin Blackmon, WR, Oklahoma State

If you don’t have a quarterback then you better go out and grab one. With Robert Griffin you’re making a projection to the NFL similar to Cam Newton last year which is a risk. I think it’s a risk worth taking in a league where the need for a top quarterback is as high as it’s ever been and I’m positive I said the same thing last year with Newton.

I think Justin Blackmon would have been a good fit in the West Coast style of offense in Cleveland but it’s hard to argue with Morris Claiborne as BPA and being better value at #4. I might have considered Trent Richardson however. The Browns play in the AFC which is one of the toughest divisions to pass the ball in (I believe that was part of the reason they went for a WCO) so you have to have a good running game. Richardson has the potential to be an elite RB in the mould of Adrian Peterson and new OC Brad Childress knows how to build an offense around a talent like that. Peyton Hillis is a FA. The only question with Richardson this high would be value, considering the number of later round RBs who go on to be very productive, still Richardson is considerably more talented than any RB in the draft since Peterson IMO.

Same question of value for Detroit and that’s quite a lot to give up for a player who might have been available later in the draft, plus Detroit have spent a 2nd round pick (Mikel LeShoure) and a 1st round pick (Jahvid Best) on the same position in the last two drafts. I know there are some injury concerns with these players but that’s a lot of draft picks spent on the same position. On the other side Detroit would be getting a very good player at worst if not an elite talent.

That’s a tough situation with the Redskins so I really don’t envy NFL MIKE having to make it. Obviously the Redskins are desperate for a QB but Robert Griffin is off the board in our mock and almost certainly will be in the real thing as well. You usually can’t go wrong with BPA in that situation especially if you can’t get a trade down if you want it.

twelve283 wrote:That’s a tough situation with the Redskins so I really don’t envy NFL MIKE having to make it. Obviously the Redskins are desperate for a QB but Robert Griffin is off the board in our mock and almost certainly will be in the real thing as well. You usually can’t go wrong with BPA in that situation especially if you can’t get a trade down if you want it.

The other thing for the Redskins is having Blackmon should make them seem more attractive to their FA quarterback targets, unless they stick with Beck and Grossman for another year.

Quite contradictory to almost everything I said in the draft prospects thread, I think we can fix WR and RB with our other picks still have another 1st rounder and as I said earlier I think Claiborne can help take us to being one of the very best defenses, though that might just make everyone run over us which could result in giving up more yards to the run than the pass. Think in reality the RB group for next season will be Hardesty, Jackson, Ogbonnaya and a 2nd/3rd rounder.

Derbyblue wrote:

twelve283 wrote:That’s a tough situation with the Redskins so I really don’t envy NFL MIKE having to make it. Obviously the Redskins are desperate for a QB but Robert Griffin is off the board in our mock and almost certainly will be in the real thing as well. You usually can’t go wrong with BPA in that situation especially if you can’t get a trade down if you want it.

The other thing for the Redskins is having Blackmon should make them seem more attractive to their FA quarterback targets, unless they stick with Beck and Grossman for another year.

Quite contradictory to almost everything I said in the draft prospects thread, I think we can fix WR and RB with our other picks still have another 1st rounder and as I said earlier I think Claiborne can help take us to being one of the very best defenses, though that might just make everyone run over us which could result in giving up more yards to the run than the pass. Think in reality the RB group for next season will be Hardesty, Jackson, Ogbonnaya and a 2nd/3rd rounder.

I don't think this will be the case as most free agents will have signed before the draft this year, so the redskins wouldn't be able to use Blackmon to attract a free agent QB

Good point TheBrownTown but the promise of one of the top WR prospects might work, obviously they can't promise names but if they plan to trade down they should still be able to pick up one of the top guys.

Dre Kirkpatrick going 7th, I can imagine Forward Pass wanted to trade down so he could get Kirkpatrick later and have a few extra picks, he fills one of the positions the Jaguars need help at making it hard to argue with apart from saying I don't think he'll be taken 7th.

Kirkpatick not a bad pick but I would have gone with Reiff or Floyd, it was the Jags inept offense that made them lose games not their defense, Gabbert clearly needs help and I would have given him help. Can't argue too much with the pick though as it does fill a need with a good player

I went with Upshaw instead of Coples because the Dolphins need more help at linebacker than DE. It's all very well getting someone to balance the line with Wake but Dansby needs serious help in the middle 3rd of the Fins D.

Interesting pick, most of the mocks seem to have him going in the second half of the first round. Looks pretty good on tape though.

Derbyblue wrote:Good point TheBrownTown but the promise of one of the top WR prospects might work, obviously they can't promise names but if they plan to trade down they should still be able to pick up one of the top guys.

Dre Kirkpatrick going 7th, I can imagine Forward Pass wanted to trade down so he could get Kirkpatrick later and have a few extra picks, he fills one of the positions the Jaguars need help at making it hard to argue with apart from saying I don't think he'll be taken 7th.

Spot on Derby , once I decided the Jags would give Gabbert another chance [i 've addopted them as my 2nd team now , having been given them on here]
Claiborne & Blackmon had gone ,didn't expect to get them to be honest
I offered to trade downwards , with no takers it was just pick 1 from Kirkpatrick / Floyd / Coples to fill the obvious needs WR / CB / DE
RE Brown Town ,sort of agree but Just felt Jags need CB more than WR as they might pick up a wr in FA

ollyrules wrote:I picked Richardson because I thought he's too good to miss on especially with the Lions lacking any sort of a running game all year. Yes there are needs at Cornerback and on the offensive line but the CB position can be addressed in Free Agency and the Offensive Line later on in the draft. With Richardson in the backfield it gives them a two dimensional offense also allowing the play action pass to become a serious option. Teams would have to think about the run as well which means more guys coming and therefore more room (in theory) for Megatron and Titus Young.

Don't really agree with this move. More for the value given up by the Lions to get Richardson. As others have mentioned they picked a RB last year and he should be alright. If Best comes back then that is more than enough to complement the Pass Attack they are developing.
I (as the Lions GM last year) would probably have stayed roughly put and looked for a Cornerback although Dre Kirkpatrick has gone a fair bit higher than I would have expected so he wouldn't have been reachable without a mega trade either.

TheBrownTown wrote:Kirkpatick not a bad pick but I would have gone with Reiff or Floyd, it was the Jags inept offense that made them lose games not their defense, Gabbert clearly needs help and I would have given him help. Can't argue too much with the pick though as it does fill a need with a good player

I would probably have gone offence to help Gabbert out, but I'm okay with the pick. They may go after receiveing threats in free agency which we can't properly factor in.

crazy_dave23 wrote:

ollyrules wrote:I picked Richardson because I thought he's too good to miss on especially with the Lions lacking any sort of a running game all year. Yes there are needs at Cornerback and on the offensive line but the CB position can be addressed in Free Agency and the Offensive Line later on in the draft. With Richardson in the backfield it gives them a two dimensional offense also allowing the play action pass to become a serious option. Teams would have to think about the run as well which means more guys coming and therefore more room (in theory) for Megatron and Titus Young.

Don't really agree with this move. More for the value given up by the Lions to get Richardson. As others have mentioned they picked a RB last year and he should be alright. If Best comes back then that is more than enough to complement the Pass Attack they are developing.
I (as the Lions GM last year) would probably have stayed roughly put and looked for a Cornerback although Dre Kirkpatrick has gone a fair bit higher than I would have expected so he wouldn't have been reachable without a mega trade either.

To be honest I think the Lions running backs are just average where as Richardson could be one of the best in a long time. Yeah I gavve up a lot but what the heck!!!

ollyrules wrote:
To be honest I think the Lions running backs are just average where as Richardson could be one of the best in a long time. Yeah I gavve up a lot but what the heck!!!

I think it's just a lot to give up for a RB is all, although Richarson is probably as close to a slam dunk as you can get in the draft (bet that comes back to bite me ). The Lions have other needs as well and there is no guarantee they will be able to fill them in FA as they're right up against the cap at around $123m. Still they'll save some money by giving up those draft picks.

#7: JAX-Dre Kirkpatrick, CB, Alabama
#8: MIA-Courtney Upshaw, LB, Alabama

Two more Alabama guys go in quick succession.

The Jaguars have one of the worst collections of receivers in the whole NFL. They have Mike Thomas, who would be a number 2 receiver at best on just about every other team, and not much else. It’s a collection of special teamers and other team’s castoffs, like Brian Robiskie from the Browns of all teams, the Browns FFS that should tell the Jaguars FO something. Unfortunately Justin Blackmon was selected one pick earlier by the Redskins and I don’t see any other receiver worth a top 10 pick at this time, Michael Floyd would have to run a low 4.4s 40 time to be considered this high IMO plus he’s got some character issues (DUI + other alcohol related offenses) and from what I know the Jaguars are usually pretty cautious when it comes to these things, especially with high picks.

With no option of a trade down then for me it would have been a choice between Iowa OT Riley Reiff and Dre Kirkpatrick. My initial thought would be to address the OL in order to give Blaine Gabbert a better chance to succeed and allow for a better evaluation of his ability. Jacksonville had problems along their OL with Eben Britton having to kick inside to RG at times and, from what I’ve read, there has been some speculation he might stay there going forward making RT a need. Protecting the OB is paramount but I’m not 100% sure I would be comfortable drafting a RT this high in the draft.

On the other hand I am also a big fan of Kirkpatrick’s game. He’s got a rare frame for a CB at 6’2, 195lbs and he’s looks to have very long arms as well. He’s one of the most physical corners in the draft and has no problems with run support and he’s a good wrap up tackler. Watch him play and his recognition of what’s happening on the field is excellent, showing anticipation and an ability to read the QB. He is also competent in all types of coverage whether it’s zone or man. A versatile player who I believe could also play safety. Possible red flag when he was arrested from drug possession but the charges were later dropped.

The Courtney Upshaw pick is an interesting one for me as I still not 100% sure where his best position will be in the NFL or what scheme he fits best. I’m hoping the Combine might help in this regard where the LB drills and 40 time will prove useful. He played multiple positions in Alabama’s 34 defense but most of the time he was at WOLB or DE rushing the passer, at this point I think his best position in the pros might be SOLB in a 34. He’s strong and plays the run well but his short arms worry me in terms of block shedding and setting the edge. We don’t yet know what kind of defense the Dolphins will be running next season, will it be 34, 43 or some kind of hybrid? If it’s a 43 I’m not sure where Upshaw fits TBH, I don’t see him making his best impact at DE and at 273lbs I think he might be too big to play 43 OLB, doesn’t look fast enough IMO. That and the value are the two things I’m not sure about with this pick. Good player but I liked him better a year ago.

I took Coples for Carolina. I'm not mad about the pick to be honest but I reckoned he was the best available that filled some kinda need. Carolina's defense was pretty dreadful last season so they need to help it this offseason. I reckon they'd like to go CB at this pick if they can but with Claiborne and Kirkpatrick gone, any other CB would be a major reach here. Could have gone with a DT since Fua and McLain were poor last year but I don't think Devon Still or Michael Brockers are good enough to make them give up on those guys just yet, particularly with a new DC in place for next season. I thought about a WR to complement Smith and give Cam another weapon but don't rate anyone after Blackmon high enough to go top 10. Also thought about O-Line but in the end I figured that when you're in the same division as New Orleans and Atlanta you better be able to defend the pass and if there are no CBs worth taking then you might as well take the guy who has the potential to be the most disruptive D-Lineman in the draft. Carolina ranked just 25th in the league in sacks last season. Coples can help improve that stat and give Brees and Ryan more to worry about........ if the Panthers can keep him motivated!

I'm similar to Number-25 in my thoughts. The player I had targeted (Upshaw) had already been taken and I was left to decide whether to go after someone else that I don't rate as highly or to go in a different direction. Given that I thought taking Upshaw here might be a bit of a reach I decided against looking at some of the other prospects behind him and decided to upgrade on the OL. There were some reports that Fitzpatrick injured his shoulder in the second half of last season which would explain his drop off in form. Reiff has played LT and RT so is a nice versatile option to have on the roster. Most seem to think that RT is his most likely spot in the NFL but I think that Demetrius Bell is such junk and injury prone that I would gladly see Reiff on the left side over him.

It will be interesting to see how people's individual mock draft differ from this.

One question I have from this is are NFC teams more likely to trade picks with AFC teams and visa versa? Won't the Rams and Vikings be more likely to trade with the Browns or Dolphins rather than the Seahawks or Redskins?

Once Kalil was gone it was either trade down, pick Claiborne or reach for one of the other tackles. Fortunately nobody picked one before GB1919 so I could get a tackle without moving back up.

One of the reasons I like Martin (and probably would have picked him even if Reiff was also still there) is that he played in a pretty run-heavy offense at Stanford, and getting Peterson (or Gerhart) going is still the key to success for the Vikings.

Went with Melvin Ingram to the Cardinals in the end. Would have liked a LT, but with Reiff, Kalil and Martin off the board I don't think the value was there. Mike Adams at 13 seems like a reach to me.

Also considered taking a WR to pair with Fitz, but again I didn't really think Floyd or Jeffery were worth that high of a pick.

Pass rusher fills a need, and Ingram looks a very good player.