Welsh team vs England discussion

First topic message reminder :

Right then, a somewhat unconvincing first half performance, but came out firing in the 2nd, personally I thought Shingler did alright coming in as a late replacement, but he is no 7, if it were up to me I'd have him at 6 if anywhere.

I thought our back line played pretty well today, even Hook showing nice hands if sometimes a bit indecisive.

Hopefully North, Warburton and Tipuric will be fit for the next match, so who would you keep and who would you drop?

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:Maesteg wrote,
'England have had to change there centre and backrow but I would certainly not come to any conclusion that there is improvement. They are missing five decent players, Lawes, tuilagi, care, flood and Haskell. If those guys come in and make a difference. But watching England's last two performances they look like they have a lot more work to do than Wales, Ireland, Scotland or France.

Home advantage will be a big bonus, but over the last three or even four games vs Wales England have regressed Wales have improved.

Anyone seriously stating that they are confident that England will win any of their last three games is on the wind up.'


You can add Wood to players missing which is about a third of a match day squad and arguably includes 3 or 4 of our best players.
So massive changes have been forced/made to England and most England fans being realistic were not confident of winning the first 2 games let alone the next 3.
However, we have got 2 good results so far & have players returning plus home advantage which as you say evens things up given the disruption to our squad.

You seemed confident that we would lose to Italy - I hope you have got over your disappointment. I don't think many Welsh fans were confident at half time against Scotland when it was 3-3. So let's get things in perspective a bit please.
Wales will go in as favourites because they have a settled squad but I would still not be surprised if England won.

Why would I be disappointed for England to win? That makes no sense. I felt sorry for Italy who played well but England did just enough to win for the second week in a row. No more no less.

Wales were lucky in the first half the non knockon try and jenkins interfering on the line ,should have been a yellow for him.Still a good 15 minutes and 2 tries second half, so at Twickers they are favorites to win. Really with Flood ., Tulliga, Lawes back and at SH Dickenson ( not Dixson ) and Morgan at 8

english warrior wrote:although England are 4th and Wales 8 in Rankings

England are 5th and Wales are 6th separated by 1.66 points. Wales are leading the six nations table having scored six tries England have not manufactured a single try as yet.

You are making some very confident posts?

Youre partly right there Mitey - As long as we play well the result will take care of itself

wales aren't 8th

rosbif wrote:Wales were lucky in the first half the non knockon try and jenkins interfering on the line ,should have been a yellow for him.Still a good 15 minutes and 2 tries second half, so at Twickers they are favorites to win. Really with Flood ., Tulliga, Lawes back and at SH Dickenson ( not Dixson ) and Morgan at 8

So you want to change your second row pairing, your backrow, your halfbacks and your midfield. In fact all of your key decision makers are either coming back from injury or in a first start for their country. Please do thism in fact you should go further, given your wingers inability to score and full backs propensity to crumble under pressure maybe your back three as well? Since your front row couldnt put the italian scrum to bed even after castro went off and lost two scrums against the head maybe your front row too? certainly your hooker who missed three throws?

TycroesOsprey wrote:It is amusing how the English wums (not all English posters it must be said) seem to be getting more and more desperate. Some just seem deluded but a lot do seem to reek of fear that their team is going to get a bit of a spanking.

When was thye last time Wales gave England a Spanking at Twickhenam?

Both teams go in to the match 2 wins apiece. England may have some changes to the team, but then so will Wales.

It just angers me that alot of posters, seem to give no respect at all to Scotland and Italy. Neither of the 2 was an actual walk over.

I do believe that not many other fans (other than England that is) gave England and Lancaster any chance of winning, especialy against Scotland at Murryfield, since we have not won there for a long time.

Look forward to the game, both teams strugling with injurys at the moment. And both teams waiting for first choice players to come back into the team.

majesticimperialman wrote:

TycroesOsprey wrote:It is amusing how the English wums (not all English posters it must be said) seem to be getting more and more desperate. Some just seem deluded but a lot do seem to reek of fear that their team is going to get a bit of a spanking.

When was thye last time Wales gave England a Spanking at Twickhenam?

Both teams go in to the match 2 wins apiece. England may have some changes to the team, but then so will Wales.

It just angers me that alot of posters, seem to give no respect at all to Scotland and Italy. Neither of the 2 was an actual walk over.

I do believe that not many other fans (other than England that is) gave England and Lancaster any chance of winning, especialy against Scotland at Murryfield, since we have not won there for a long time.

Look forward to the game, both teams strugling with injurys at the moment. And both teams waiting for first choice players to come back into the team.

Did you watch the Scotland Wales game? or are you talking about just the England one's against Scotland and Italy?

majesticimperialman wrote:

TycroesOsprey wrote:It is amusing how the English wums (not all English posters it must be said) seem to be getting more and more desperate. Some just seem deluded but a lot do seem to reek of fear that their team is going to get a bit of a spanking.

When was thye last time Wales gave England a Spanking at Twickhenam?

Both teams go in to the match 2 wins apiece. England may have some changes to the team, but then so will Wales.

It just angers me that alot of posters, seem to give no respect at all to Scotland and Italy. Neither of the 2 was an actual walk over.

I do believe that not many other fans (other than England that is) gave England and Lancaster any chance of winning, especialy against Scotland at Murryfield, since we have not won there for a long time.

Look forward to the game, both teams strugling with injurys at the moment. And both teams waiting for first choice players to come back into the team.

Ah but Maj its the cycle we are in at the moment that counts. In 1991 England hadnt won in Cardiff for 30 years. Wales fans simply couldnt understand that times had changed and England were a much better side. Wales were spanked 25-3. What followed for Wales was 13 years in teh rugby wilderness whilst England went on to eventually rule the rugby world. Somthing similar is going to happen in Twickenham this year. England are simply not as good as Wales at the moment, in 1991 the reverse was true. Many English posters are desperatly clinging to a belief that England are better than they are, that despite the performances in the first two matches, somehow Englands defence will be better, that despite having created no tries in open play their backline is going to suddenly click, That their lineout just as flaky as the welsh will suddenly become an attacking weapon. That their backrow outplayed by scotland and ponderous against the Italians until Morgan came on will become world beaters. All this is against the evidence of the first two rounds of the championship.

As for the scots I was terrified of what they were capable of doing to us before the match on saturday read my posts. Based on the rugby I had seen Scotland had clear threats that could cause trouble. I have seen nothing from Englands play that worries me. That doesnt mean Im complacent, anything can happen on a rugby pitch after all in 1993 Wales beat England 10-9 against a team that was far superior in terms of personnel and tactics. It can happen. Not very likely though.

majesticimperialman wrote:

It just angers me that alot of posters, seem to give no respect at all to Scotland and Italy. Neither of the 2 was an actual walk over.

Thats not what's been said, its more along the lines that the English performances in both those games were not that convincing, I'm not one to get into a slugging match on forums but please get a reality check. if we go on just this tournaments performances so far England haven't looked good. Scotland were doing everything they can to lose the game, and Italy bottled it. Yes England did well to win both those games away but they didn't put in a performance that really made me stand up and go "this England team has something special".

I understand that you have some players that are going to return from injury that will give you a boost however, so we may see England actually play well against us I hope.

Spot on majestic.

IronMike wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:

It just angers me that alot of posters, seem to give no respect at all to Scotland and Italy. Neither of the 2 was an actual walk over.

Thats not what's been said, its more along the lines that the English performances in both those games were not that convincing, I'm not one to get into a slugging match on forums but please get a reality check. if we go on just this tournaments performances so far England haven't looked good. Scotland were doing everything they can to lose the game, and Italy bottled it. Yes England did well to win both those games away but they didn't put in a performance that really made me stand up and go "this England team has something special".

I understand that you have some players that are going to return from injury that will give you a boost however, so we may see England actually play well against us I hope.

I think all the non English fans gave italy and Scotland a lot of disrespect. England did very well to beat both sides, England exceeded the expectations of a large number of people by winning in Rome.

You could not be further from the truth with your post.

That said the opening weekends have shown three things.

1. England are not the rugby force they were ten years ago, lack top class players throughout and depth to fill voids or change the team when things aren't working. They aren't even the team that started last years championship and anyone expecting them to be so over night is delusional.

2. Italy and scotland are a good sides but still have a way to go before the progress from fifth and sixth at the end of the championship, but it gets closer all the time.

3. Dave Pearson Doesn't like refereeing in minus five degrees Celsius..!

I give no respect to Scotland or Italy because they are rubbish and don't even sit inside the top 10 of world rugby.

England will lose because Wales are better and the idiot a few posts up talking about bringing in all them changes for England clearly doesn't have a clue!!
Why would they just walk back in after a long lay off?
Even if fit non posses any threat to Wales anyway just more over hyped players by the English media.

Maestegs anti English bile continues.

Rather pathetic that he feels the need to de-value two very good wins for a New team, New Captain and New Coaching set up.

I seem to remember English fans were much more graceful towards Gatts and Co when they took over, but then I wouldn't expect anything else as we only base things on current rugby issues and not hundreds of years of hatred of all things English.

maestegmafia wrote:

IronMike wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:

It just angers me that alot of posters, seem to give no respect at all to Scotland and Italy. Neither of the 2 was an actual walk over.

Thats not what's been said, its more along the lines that the English performances in both those games were not that convincing, I'm not one to get into a slugging match on forums but please get a reality check. if we go on just this tournaments performances so far England haven't looked good. Scotland were doing everything they can to lose the game, and Italy bottled it. Yes England did well to win both those games away but they didn't put in a performance that really made me stand up and go "this England team has something special".

I understand that you have some players that are going to return from injury that will give you a boost however, so we may see England actually play well against us I hope.

I think all the non English fans gave italy and Scotland a lot of disrespect. England did very well to beat both sides, England exceeded the expectations of a large number of people by winning in Rome.

You could not be further from the truth with your post.

That said the opening weekends have shown three things.

1. England are not the rugby force they were ten years ago, lack top class players throughout and depth to fill voids or change the team when things aren't working. They aren't even the team that started last years championship and anyone expecting them to be so over night is delusional.

2. Italy and scotland are a good sides but still have a way to go before the progress from fifth and sixth at the end of the championship, but it gets closer all the time.

3. Dave Pearson Doesn't like refereeing in minus five degrees Celsius..!

Which part of my post was far from the truth exactly? Either way I'm done with this, I've never really disliked the English team, but certain posters here are either exceptionally good trolls or are dangerously deluded and need to seek help.

Not bothered who we pick.Just tell our 10/15 to feint to kick and Hodgson will be out of the game and the break is on!

We're looking at a potential pasting. We were looking at a pasting in Scotland and were underdogs in italy (imo).

Wales are favourites. Morgan and Dickson need to start, for me and probably that's it for changes, given the situation at present. If Tuilagi or Flood play blinders this weekend then we reconsider. But it'll do us good to come up against some Welsh hwll.

Cowshot wrote:We're looking at a potential pasting. We were looking at a pasting in Scotland and were underdogs in italy (imo).

Wales are favourites. Morgan and Dickson need to start, for me and probably that's it for changes, given the situation at present. If Tuilagi or Flood play blinders this weekend then we reconsider. But it'll do us good to come up against some Welsh hwll.

Lancaster won't change a winning team. He lacks coaching experience and won't take the risk.

It was obvious after the first game at murrayfield he needed to swap Dickson and youngs, bring in Morgan, get a creative centre like May in for Farrell who does nothing bar kick at goal, and either drop Strettle or Ashton for sharples or at least give them a kick up the backside. He didn't have the intelligence to do so,I can't see him towing a different line now that they have two from two.

maestegmafia wrote:

Cowshot wrote:We're looking at a potential pasting. We were looking at a pasting in Scotland and were underdogs in italy (imo).

Wales are favourites. Morgan and Dickson need to start, for me and probably that's it for changes, given the situation at present. If Tuilagi or Flood play blinders this weekend then we reconsider. But it'll do us good to come up against some Welsh hwll.

Lancaster won't change a winning team. He lacks coaching experience and won't take the risk.

It was obvious after the first game at murrayfield he needed to swap Dickson and youngs, bring in Morgan, get a creative centre like May in for Farrell who does nothing bar kick at goal, and either drop Strettle or Ashton for sharples or at least give them a kick up the backside. He didn't have the intelligence to do so,I can't see him towing a different line now that they have two from two.

I dont think it is any thing to do with experience/or lack of, that the reason why Lancaster did not make any changes to the team this week. No i think it was the thought that he will give them another chance against Italy, now although they still won he surely would of noticed that Youngs, was not playing like he should be and that Dickson when he came on livend things up a little. You can also say the same for Morgan.

So for the game against Wales i would expect to see some changes, but not whole sale changes though.

You mean you would hope to see changes. I think that he and his coaches look very happy with their team.

HERSH wrote:we only base things on current rugby issues

Okay, let's get away from the bickering (there's a thread set aside specifically for that) and assume that what I've quoted you as saying is true: Hersh, based on your two matches so far, aren't you worried about your apparent lack of threat in attack? A chargedown try is perfectly valid and is worth five points just like any other try, but doesn't it concern you that you haven't created any other chances?

luckless_pedestrian wrote:

HERSH wrote:we only base things on current rugby issues

Okay, let's get away from the bickering (there's a thread set aside specifically for that) and assume that what I've quoted you as saying is true: Hersh, based on your two matches so far, aren't you worried about your apparent lack of threat in attack? A chargedown try is perfectly valid and is worth five points just like any other try, but doesn't it concern you that you haven't created any other chances?

The pours defence would be a big concern. Not many top ten teams concede two tries against Italy while not being able to manufacture any themselves.

Dai - nice post but sometimes we're just having some fun with Hersh and the anglo fans, it's harmless - The Wales v Engalnd game remains a 50/50 and our stuttering performance against Scotland should serve us well in knowing we are going to have to be far better to win there.

If only all Welsh posters here were as realistic about our chances as you are, Ruby!

luckless_pedestrian wrote:

HERSH wrote:we only base things on current rugby issues

Okay, let's get away from the bickering (there's a thread set aside specifically for that) and assume that what I've quoted you as saying is true: Hersh, based on your two matches so far, aren't you worried about your apparent lack of threat in attack? A chargedown try is perfectly valid and is worth five points just like any other try, but doesn't it concern you that you haven't created any other chances?

This was in reference to the anti English feel most of the posters on here have and not the real rugby issues, I don't know why some of you don't have the balls to admit it! Some of you hate the English for no other reason than the fact we are English, what this is based on I have no idea?

I live in a multicultural Britain where by we embrace other cultures and religions as we accept that not everyone is the same.

Guys this is the 21st Century don’t you think it’s time to embrace the English and stop living in the past.

I have no problem in admitting that from time to time I enjoy watching Wales play and have posted articles saying as much before.

Where did that come from, Hersh? I was only asking you a rugby-related question - which you've chosen not to answer.

Love the English people, England team least favourite

Can't hate - hate is a bad word and causes trouble.

hersh the WUM seems to have cracked

HERSH wrote:

luckless_pedestrian wrote:

HERSH wrote:we only base things on current rugby issues

Okay, let's get away from the bickering (there's a thread set aside specifically for that) and assume that what I've quoted you as saying is true: Hersh, based on your two matches so far, aren't you worried about your apparent lack of threat in attack? A chargedown try is perfectly valid and is worth five points just like any other try, but doesn't it concern you that you haven't created any other chances?

This was in reference to the anti English feel most of the posters on here have and not the real rugby issues, I don't know why some of you don't have the balls to admit it! Some of you hate the English for no other reason than the fact we are English, what this is based on I have no idea?

I live in a multicultural Britain where by we embrace other cultures and religions as we accept that not everyone is the same.

Guys this is the 21st Century don’t you think it’s time to embrace the English and stop living in the past.

I have no problem in admitting that from time to time I enjoy watching Wales play and have posted articles saying as much before.

I don't enjoy watching England play though.

I think we all know this is more than just Rugby.

Let’s face it within Wales there is still in fighting regarding where people are born, live etc...

Hence why the Regions are still struggling to attract fans as the average Welsh person just can put aside there hatred for each other.


What chance do us English have of having a sensible discussion when you can’t even talk to the bloke in the next valley without wanting to rub his face in the dirt?

For what it's worth, Hersh, I don't hate the English. I'd have to hate my mum (and half of myself) otherwise.

You have to realise that it's possible for people to criticise the England rugby team without hating the English nation.

I already knew you were half English.

Most people in South/West Wales are!

Ah, but my mum's Lancastrian.

luckless_pedestrian wrote:If only all Welsh posters here were as realistic about our chances as you are, Ruby!

I think most actually are - a few are just wumming but most knew we were in for a mighty game against Scotland - We all like a bit of bravado from time to time but I think the vast majority on here will have a decent dialogue if you ask them - GeordieFalcon and the Hound from Harrow remain 2 of my favourite anglo posters along with Hersh of course

luckless_pedestrian wrote:Ah, but my mum's Lancastrian.

I already know that too!

Have you hired a private investigator or something, Hersh?

luckless_pedestrian wrote:Ah, but my mum's Lancastrian.

So, she's a devotee of Stuart Lancaster's court? A woman of taste I see.

HERSH wrote:I think we all know this is more than just Rugby.

Let’s face it within Wales there is still in fighting regarding where people are born, live etc...

Hence why the Regions are still struggling to attract fans as the average Welsh person just can put aside there hatred for each other.


What chance do us English have of having a sensible discussion when you can’t even talk to the bloke in the next valley without wanting to rub his face in the dirt?

Hersh I will assume your an intelligent guy but this is a pathetic generalisation and find this deeply offensive. I'm surprised the mods have not removed such racial bile...wum or no wum.

God some of this bickering is just pathetic, honestly.

I've spent 5 years at university in Wales, loved every minute of it. The people, the place and everything that came with it. What I couldn't stand was watching sport, especially rugby there. The same goes for watching rugby in England. Most fans seem to have this innate need to slag off the opposing nation. I'm a huge rugby fan, and an Englishman through and through. But i'm also an honest man, and have no qualms in congratulating a team for playing the better game, or admitting when my team played poorly. Arguing and making snide comments about other's nations is just scraping the barrel and petulant.

I look forward to the Lions every 4 years, because at least then the captious bickering is put aside and for once people on these threads are debating a common goal.

Rant over.

luckless_pedestrian wrote: Have you hired a private investigator or something, Hersh?

No he's just Mormon high commander for the UK. All he does is put in his password to access their database. It has everything on everyone.

bluestonevedder wrote:
I look forward to the Lions every 4 years, because at least then the captious bickering is put aside and for once people on these threads are debating a common goal.

Rant over.

Of course then the people with the 'common goal' won't be so nice to Australia though... So, the bickering will continue with a new victim.

Alex Corbisiero is a prop capable of giving Adam Jones trouble. He certainly got the upper hand against Adam for L. Irish v Ospreys in last years HC.
It would be madness to underestimate the English Scrum. Cole is a good prop too.

I hope England persist with Hodgson Farrell at 10-12, Wales can work plenty of mismatches down that channel.

SecretFly wrote:

Of course then the people with the 'common goal' won't be so nice to Australia though... So, the bickering will continue with a new victim.

But that's ok...

SecretFly wrote:

luckless_pedestrian wrote: Have you hired a private investigator or something, Hersh?

No he's just Mormon high commander for the UK.

That's my dad!

Messymesina wrote:Alex Corbisiero is a prop capable of giving Adam Jones trouble. He certainly got the upper hand against Adam for L. Irish v Ospreys in last years HC.

but we all know Adam is a different beast when he puts on his superhero Welsh Red.

"luckless_pedestrian wrote: Have you hired a private investigator or something, Hersh?"

You mentioned it in a previous post months ago.


Dai

How is my views racial bile, I've lived in some of these places and seen it first hand, some of them can't stand each other purely because they live in the next valley or on past events many years ago, hence why the Regions will never work in Wales.

HERSH wrote:
How is my views racial bile, I've lived in some of these places and seen it first hand, some of them can't stand each other purely because they live in the next valley or on past events many years ago, hence why the Regions will never work in Wales.

And the Liverpool lads love their London chums... and Birmingham boyos love their Manchestah kin...and Manchester City lads love them other lads from the same city.

SecretFly wrote:

HERSH wrote:
How is my views racial bile, I've lived in some of these places and seen it first hand, some of them can't stand each other purely because they live in the next valley or on past events many years ago, hence why the Regions will never work in Wales.

And the Liverpool lads love their London chums... and Birmingham boyos love their Manchestah kin...and Manchester City lads love them other lads from the same city.

We weren't talking about Wendyball!

Thugs the lot of them.