Scotland - post match discussion

First topic message reminder :

Am sitting on the train on my way home from Cardiff, in good spirits, in part due to the top company of Penfro Pete, Mrs Penfro, dreamer and lucky, and also in part cos it does actually feel like Scotland have turned a corner. Of course, I could be completely delusional, but I felt at the very least we needed a thread of our own, free from gloating numpties, away from critiques of players that have retired, etc.

So here it is, how do you think Scotland went today? Hogg gave us glimpses of what is to come, Denton and Rennie led the way in the pack, and Laidlaw didn't look out of place in any sense at this level in the 10 shirt. Two silly, needless yellow cards put us In the corner and we got our just desserts. But my god, there's hope and plenty of it

ASBO interesting thoughts on 6, Barclay never a 6 and I don't like 2 7's in the back row, still traumatized after Moffat's 3 7's experiment. I have reservations about Harley at 6 as we discussed a while back, tackle machine, but can be a penalty liability. Haven't seen enough of Vernon this season to know how he's playing. Any thoughts on Rambo?

justified sinner wrote:ASBO interesting thoughts on 6, Barclay never a 6 and I don't like 2 7's in the back row, still traumatized after Moffat's 3 7's experiment. I have reservations about Harley at 6 as we discussed a while back, tackle machine, but can be a penalty liability. Haven't seen enough of Vernon this season to know how he's playing. Any thoughts on Rambo?

I would prefer Rambo over Vernon tbh, although the latter has mostly been playing 6 for Sale, but he can only get bench time at the moment, so his form cannot be that good. The problem with Rambo is that he is an out&out 8, i think, and hence he plays there for club with Denton at 6. With either of those two I would worry about upsetting the balance of the backrow by not having a chopper to tackle everything that moves and to perform a fair share of the dirty work

I see that Parks has suggested that Scotland can win their remaining 3 games. I would not have thought that they could beat France but they will certainly push Italy and Ireland all the way.

Asbo, if Robinson does go, wha is the best candidate to take Scotland further?
Dont laugh at me here but i thing that EOS would not be a bad shout for you guys....

eirebilly wrote:I see that Parks has suggested that Scotland can win their remaining 3 games. I would not have thought that they could beat France but they will certainly push Italy and Ireland all the way.

Asbo, if Robinson does go, wha is the best candidate to take Scotland further?
Dont laugh at me here but i thing that EOS would not be a bad shout for you guys....

OK, billy, talk me thru the EOS thought? I'd prefer to see a seasoned SH coach if we could find one that was interested tbh

Well i think that EOS is a pretty decent backs coach and he did preside over Ireland when they were probably playing their best and most attacking rugby.

I just dont think that Scotland have too many worries in the forwards but their backs could use a lift. I just feel that EOS might be the guy to give you that spark you need. Just my thoughts though.

An experienced SH coach would be ideal but can Scotland afford one?

Eddie's the backs moves king, if any backs coach can get an ordinary back line scoring tries it's him.

Glas a du wrote:Eddie's the backs moves king, if any backs coach can get an ordinary back line scoring tries it's him.

But I wouldn't agree that its an ordinary backline - our problems have stemmed from having a one-dimensional 10 and a non-distributing 12, and yet even then, we have created stuff, just our finishing has let us down. But now, either thru selection or having his hand forced, we are starting to pick a very decent backline

I guess thats a no to EOS the Asbo.

eirebilly wrote:Well i think that EOS is a pretty decent backs coach and he did preside over Ireland when they were probably playing their best and most attacking rugby.

I just dont think that Scotland have too many worries in the forwards but their backs could use a lift. I just feel that EOS might be the guy to give you that spark you need. Just my thoughts though.

An experienced SH coach would be ideal but can Scotland afford one?

We seem to have gotten over our 'money' worries at the moment, billy, so I would worry more about whether a decent SH coach would actually want the job rather than whether we could afford one!

eirebilly wrote:I guess thats a no to EOS the Asbo.

No, sorry, not at all, I'd just need to be convinced a wee bit more!

I have often wondered just how good a pairing AR and EOS would make to be honest. Scotland may be making the breaks but they are lacking the composure to get them over the line. Thats something that EOS would bring to the table. Scotland want to attack but just dont seem to know how to do it in a structured manner. I seriously believe that EOS would work wonders there.

When i look back at the rugby that Ireland were playing before EOS, i see alot of similarities in Scotlands play. Under EOS, i believe Ireland played some of the best rugby i have seen from them, hell even ROG made clean breaks under him

eirebilly wrote:Well i think that EOS is a pretty decent backs coach and he did preside over Ireland when they were probably playing their best and most attacking rugby.

I just dont think that Scotland have too many worries in the forwards but their backs could use a lift. I just feel that EOS might be the guy to give you that spark you need. Just my thoughts though.

An experienced SH coach would be ideal but can Scotland afford one?

Scotland coach will never be a top job. We will allways have to either have a patriotic Scot, someone on their way up in their career or someone who has failed elsewhere.

At the moment I don't think any of the Scots are ready - although there are a couple of candidates - Chalmers, Redpath maybe.

I would be looking for a young antipodean coach looking to make a name on their way to a top job/

Todd Blackadder has played and coached in Scotland, he has done well in the antipodean club competition. I would be targeting him or someone in a similar position.

John Kirwan would be good for Scotland IMO - Gets a lot out of a little and would find Scotsmen all over the world such as Ritchie McCaw, Jock Dussatoir and Malky Parrisse.

very good, Ruby

Quality stuff Ruby

TJ wrote:

eirebilly wrote:Well i think that EOS is a pretty decent backs coach and he did preside over Ireland when they were probably playing their best and most attacking rugby.

I just dont think that Scotland have too many worries in the forwards but their backs could use a lift. I just feel that EOS might be the guy to give you that spark you need. Just my thoughts though.

An experienced SH coach would be ideal but can Scotland afford one?

Scotland coach will never be a top job. We will allways have to either have a patriotic Scot, someone on their way up in their career or someone who has failed elsewhere.

At the moment I don't think any of the Scots are ready - although there are a couple of candidates - Chalmers, Redpath maybe.

I would be looking for a young antipodean coach looking to make a name on their way to a top job/

Todd Blackadder has played and coached in Scotland, he has done well in the antipodean club competition. I would be targeting him or someone in a similar position.

Good call on Blackadder but, I think he’ll fancy his chances of getting the AB gig if Hansen stuffs it all up. He’s got unfinished business with the Crusaders too and will want to carry on the legacy of that team. Apart from that, in all honesty what would be the better gig? Coaching one of the best provincial teams in the World or coaching a nation ranked outside the top 10? In all honesty the Crusaders would thrash Scotland if they played against each other.

I’m not having a go at Scotland, I have recently come on board as a supporter and I would like to see Scotland do well from within. Why couldn’t McGeechan give it another go?

Kirwan on the other hand is an up and comer, probably a good option if Robinson is sacked or walks away.

chewed_mintie wrote:

TJ wrote:

eirebilly wrote:Well i think that EOS is a pretty decent backs coach and he did preside over Ireland when they were probably playing their best and most attacking rugby.

I just dont think that Scotland have too many worries in the forwards but their backs could use a lift. I just feel that EOS might be the guy to give you that spark you need. Just my thoughts though.

An experienced SH coach would be ideal but can Scotland afford one?

Scotland coach will never be a top job. We will allways have to either have a patriotic Scot, someone on their way up in their career or someone who has failed elsewhere.

At the moment I don't think any of the Scots are ready - although there are a couple of candidates - Chalmers, Redpath maybe.

I would be looking for a young antipodean coach looking to make a name on their way to a top job/

Todd Blackadder has played and coached in Scotland, he has done well in the antipodean club competition. I would be targeting him or someone in a similar position.

Good call on Blackadder but, I think he’ll fancy his chances of getting the AB gig if Hansen stuffs it all up. He’s got unfinished business with the Crusaders too and will want to carry on the legacy of that team. Apart from that, in all honesty what would be the better gig? Coaching one of the best provincial teams in the World or coaching a nation ranked outside the top 10? In all honesty the Crusaders would thrash Scotland if they played against each other.

I’m not having a go at Scotland, [b]I have recently come on board as a supporter [/b]and I would like to see Scotland do well from within. Why couldn’t McGeechan give it another go?
Kirwan on the other hand is an up and comer, probably a good option if Robinson is sacked or walks away.

How can you say you want Scotland to do well but then suggest McGeechan as coach?

Naughty boy

Todd Blackadder would be using the Scotland position on his way to the ABs - how good would it be for his CV to take them back into the top 8 in the world and win something in the 6N?

He is the sort of person we should be targeting IMO

I'd stick with the guy who I wanted to take the role when Robinson was appoitned - Steve Meehan. A very creative coach, underrated at Bath.

He formed a strong coaching duo with Nick Mallett at Stade, now that would be a real coup for the SRU.

TJ wrote:Todd Blackadder would be using the Scotland position on his way to the ABs - how good would it be for his CV to take them back into the top 8 in the world and win something in the 6N?

He is the sort of person we should be targeting IMO

Conversely, NZ wouldn't touch a coach who struggled with a team outside of the Top 10. Too much of a risk for Blackadder's career, if they WERE top 8, then maybe but as I say, the better gig is coaching the Crusaders. He's pretty much in pole position for the AB's by coaching them.

Do you think the All Blacks would give much consideration to Gatland? I'm just interested to get your take on it. He hasn't always been a success with Wales, but in my view is an outstanding coach, certainly better than Hansen.

Personally, I wouldn’t want Gatland anywhere near the All Blacks. However, he has brought through a new generation in Wales which promises much and is more likely to deliver than previous ‘second comings’ (2005 in particular). Promise needs to be converted into regular triumphs over the big three however and not just the odd triple crown or 6N Grand Slam.

I think he’d have to come back to NZ and coach a Super 15 team before he is considered as he hasn’t been involved in NZ for a while – can’t think what the exact criteria is right now....

Fair enough. Presumably if Wales win the grand slam and have a good summer tour then he must surely be a contender, although I can understand the All Blacks trying to emphasise the domestic game, given their stance on players oversees.

I would have thought experience of international rugby would at least be a bonus, perhaps one that would give Deans the edge over someone like Blackadder? Deans has done a decent job with Australia, bringing through a new batch of talent and winning the Tri-Nations last year.

So it looks almost certain that Robinson will be forced into having a new blindside (probably Barclay, possibly Vernon, highly improbably McInally or Harley) and a new 11 (likely R Lamont, with Hogg in at FB) - does that mean no changes elsewhere? I'm all for continuity, but we're still shy a couple of key ingredients (a genuine 12). Given that the original squad was only ever for the first two matches of the 6Ns, will Robinson now be bold? A quote from another forum:

Constant tinkering is a problem.

Changing to weed out poor performers and build the experience of new and in-form players is a necessity.

I think it would be impoosible to deny that the standout performers so far have, to a man, been the new players that have been introduced. The failings elsewhere are well known and long established.

If this is where the changes are required, the pace and frequency of those changes should be irrelavant so long as the performance improves and the desired result becomes more achievable.

That doesn't seem to be the way that Robinson thinks tho

I think Robinson suffers from selectorial stubbourness. By dropping a player he initially selected he effectively admits an error, something he doesn't like to do.

Picking Barclay at 6 is almost as unforgivable as selecting Parks at 10.

So I took the opportunity to contact the IRB about Monsieur Poite's "interesting" performance at the weekend, and got this reply from the lovely Amy (well, i don't know for sure that she is lovely, but I decided that she comes across that way in her email!!):

While you will naturally form your own opinions on the match officials and their decisions, we retain the highest confidence in Romain Poite as one of the best referees in the world. That is not to say, of course, that he doesn’t make mistakes. Thankfully, with the top rugby referees, such as Romain, these are few are far between.

Every performance is reviewed on an ongoing basis and future appointments are made accordingly. There will be a full review of how the match officials performed before the next round of international matches are appointed. While every single decision is assessed and noted, it is important for the selectors to focus on overall performances and not concentrate solely on an individual incident.

That is lovely.

I told you she was, fES, have an inkling she's a wee honey

She sounds lurvely

Come on As....

That's blatantly a Dear [insert name] response.

I bet if we all sent a letter, we'd get the exact same one back.

Re: Scotland - post match discussion
by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Today at 5:27 pm


I told you she was, fES, have an inkling she's a wee honey



Probably a pie eating minger from Wrexham earning a few pennies stuffing envelopes.

Ah well, I live in hope

Amy

God bless Amy

at the last bundle of posts!

RuggerRadge2611 wrote: at the last bundle of posts!

No laughing at my Amy, now!!

From today's Hootsman:

Referee Romain Poite apologises to Scots over try error

By STUART BATHGATE

Published on Wednesday 15 February 2012 00:00

IT HAS emerged that French referee Romain Poite apologised to Scotland players for mistakenly disallowing a ‘try’ by Stuart Hogg in Sunday’s RBS Six Nations Championship match in Wales.

The admission has heightened the controversy about the role of Television Match Officials (TMOs) in Test matches, and is expected to lead to calls for the permissible functions of TMOs to be extended.

Scotland, who lost the match at the Millennium Stadium 27-13, had an overlap on the right when Hogh had to dive to catch a low pass. He clutched the ball, got back to his feet, dived over the line and touched down – but was denied the score as Poite ruled he had knocked on.

The matter was not clear to the naked eye, but TV replays showed that Hogg had succeeded in keeping the ball off the ground and in his control at all times, which meant that the score should have stood. But Poite did not allow himself the luxury of TV replays, instead declaring it was no score without recourse to the TMO.

It was the second time in as many matches that Scotland had been denied what they saw as a good try, but the difference was that on the previous occasion the referee had taken the time to send the evidence upstairs to the TV booth. That was against England, when Greig Laidlaw dived over the line and appeared to touch the ball down.

In that case, replays were inconclusive, and the referee was within his rights to rule no try. But on Sunday, there was no such uncertainty: the slow-motion pictures showed that Hogg had succeeded in clutching the ball to his body, and keeping it off the ground and under control until he had touched it down.

There is already ambiguity about the role of TMOs in internationals. They are supposed to come into play when there is any doubt about the validity of a score, but officials can differ in their interpretation of how far back in a move they can go to review the evidence.

Sometimes referees ask precise questions of the TMO, for example whether the ball was legitimately touched down. Sometimes, they pass the buck with a more vague question such as “Is there any reason why I cannot award a score?” That leaves the TMO to decide not only on the legitimacy of the act of scoring itself – was the ball touched down correctly, was the player in touch, and so on – but possibly in other incidents which allowed the score.

Other than a desire to get on with the match, there was no reason why Poite should not have referred the Hogg touchdown to his TMO. It was a straightforward matter, with no extraneous issues, merely the question as to whether Hogg had knocked on just prior to touching down. If he had been in any doubt, Poite should have sent the incident upstairs – why have a TMO otherwise? If he was not in any doubt, Poite should perhaps reassess his ability to referee. The ruling was all the harder for the Scots to take as an apparent Welsh knock-on had gone unpunished right before Nick de Luca was sinbinned. Had Poite blown for that first offence, the professional foul would not have taken place.

Scotland’s next Six Nations match is on Sunday week, against France at Murrayfield. English referee Wayne Barnes will officiate.

You see how the mighty Amy has already delivered? She's got Poite apologising!!

Bliwdy numpty Barnes for the France match - he owes us big time after his man sausage-up against Argentina

Apparently this guy is on his way back: Alex Blair - tweeted that he's getting mentally and physically into top shape - good news, serious talent

I wonder where Alex Blair will re-emerge? Personally I'd ditch Godman from the Edinburgh squad and use his salary to sign on Alex Blair. Laidlaw, Leonard and Alex Blair. Sounds like good options to me.

Godman could help a side like London Scottish or Wasps instead.

Oh good go, pls don't send WCP south!! Well to Wasps, that would be fine

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Apparently this guy is on his way back: Alex Blair - tweeted that he's getting mentally and physically into top shape - good news, serious talent

Edinburgh Rugby didn't like his attitude. Apparently went round thinking he was the best think since sliced bread with out even having a start - when he was fit.

Well Scott Johnson has just left the Ospreys today so he may come up and mentor Townsend for the rest of the six nations? TBH whilst as head coach for the Os he has been appalling as a backs and sklls coach and as an assistant he was excellent.

Amy does sound lovely

Hands off, Tycroes, I found her first

Im pretty sure that Amy is actually dyslexic Andy from customer services. Lovely chap, just not in that way

damngoodOvalball wrote:Im pretty sure that Amy is actually dyslexic Andy from customer services. Lovely chap, just not in that way

How to shatter a dream

I think Im going to hide on the scottish and Irish threads until after the England game. the welsh/english threads have just become pointless.

Just as I had gotten my hopes up, Amy has been giving with one hand (no, not like that ... I meant with Poite apologising for his cluster-feic), and taking away with the other - she's appointed numbnuts Wayne Barnes to referee our next match against France!

I am devastated, thought we had something there

How do other Scottish posters feel that Ross Ford is handling his captaincy role? I was worried that he might be a little quietly spoken for the task, and that the extra responsibility might affect other parts of his game, but I think he's doing pretty well so far - perhaps a bit quiet with the ref in the England game (he could have pressed Clancy more on what had happened to the advantage after Laidlaw's try effort had been ruled out), but did an excellent job of helping Poite on Sunday. And none of it appears to have affected his game - his throwing in is excellent, his tackling superb, he's been carrying loads, and his scrummaging seems to have been solid enough

I think he's doing a really good job. It helps that he's a guaranteed pick and came into the tournament on top form.

Id have thought Mike would have kept him quite grounded. Always seemed very humble even when he was one of the best players in the world.

Ford doing well so far. Someone did press the ref afterteh advantge wasnot given - can't remeber who so if it wasn't him no need for him to do so