Tennis section - Please read

Following the introduction of the THASP article, the section has taken a massive backwards step.

Taking away the arguments, the digs and bickering, the topic in hand is putting off members from posting and new members from joining. There have been complaints submitted and e-mails received.

Therefore the article has been moved to our archive system and will not be returning to the section.

Going forward, all talk about PED's within tennis is not permitted. Any articles or posts about this subject will be deleted. Not only does it put off members (as mentioned above) but it will always revolve around one player. It is not healthy for the section, for the members or for this site.

Obviously some will not agree with this and we can not please everyone all of the time but the Admin have taken this decision for the good of the forum and for the tennis section in the long run. This is non negotiable.

YI

OK Y I Man, but I don't agree with your claim it will only revolve aroud 1 player. On the THASP website itself they condemn many players.

THASP website is one thing, here it mainly revolves around one player.

I would have hoped members could have discussed this matter in a civilised, objective and non-libellous manner, but evidence suggests it was not possible.

The mechanisms of doping control within tennis, the consistency of doping control across nations, the effects of doping on performance, human physiology and long term health and acceptable alternatives to doping, are all valid topics. However, it is essential that no players are named or inferred in this discussion, in a manner that is libellous.

Another issue that engenders emotion amongst those that discuss it, is the time between points issue and the constant reference to "cheating".

Nore Staat wrote:

Another issue that engenders emotion amongst those that discuss it, is the time between points issue and the constant reference to "cheating".

The two issues should be separate and discussed that way, but one player, unfortunately, gets singled out, which is tragic. There are others who take similar time between points, but such players are never discussed and then it descends into invective.

Yes, the article was really about defending or attacking the one player and I agree with its removal. Nearly all of it was armchair speculation, nothing more...and no player can be singled out for innuendo and insinuation on that basis - and quite frankly it puts the whole forum and website in jeopardy. Amritia - I think your reasons for trying to debunk were fair enough but ultimately it just gave further oxygen to those who want to peddle unsubstantiated claims.

People may complain about freedom of speech being violated but even "freedom" has to operate within boundaries to prevent chaos ensuing.

For me, this site has always had an anti-feel against the one player in question. Yes I'm a fan of the guy, although I like tennis at large from the 80s, but its almost non-stop against him on here. Its led to me posting less and less in recent weeks - not because I'm offended by the player I like being attacked but because I'm just tired of seeing the same arguments relentlessly pedalled which all combine to lower the threshold of others piling in. Sometimes it seems like its "open season" on here to keep attacking the one player. Then you get the counter stuff, and on and on it goes. People may say "why not post new threads, etc, then?" but you just know that every thread ends up being an attack-counter-attack fest on the same player in the recent climate. What we need is some kind of agreement to wipe the slate clean, and move on to broad discussions outside of the same topics around physicality, no talent, performance issues, etc.

Viva la difference...between players, between members and between threads. Variety is the spice...of a forum...tennis is much bigger than 1 or 2 players so why keep discussing the same thing over and over. If people want to keep attacking the one player then just join some imaginary "Ihate*****.com" site and give this site some oxygen to breathe.

I am glad that article has been removed. It was toxic. Most people come to a tennis site for some fun and entertainment not to see the sort of stuff that was posted there. It certainly left me feeling depressed.

Thank you Y I Man for making the decision to remove it.

I think you have made a poor decision to remove the article. It means effectively you have removed all comments, even fair ones. In my opinion, it should certainly have been sufficient to remove the worst comments and closed the thread to further comment. I can't even find the article now. Where is this archive? How do I get to it?

An outright ban on PED discussion is both an affront to free speech and means ignoring one of the key issues in tennis today. I strongly object to that. I will probably post a lot less here if that's the case.

Surely, it seems fair to discuss known facts or make general comments:
e.g. 1 Odesnik was caught at customs. 2 I think there should be more tests in tennis. As long as you aren't accusing a specific player. Don't you agree?

You have also swung too far from one extreme to the other. You can't allow everything then suddenly react and ban everything. You need a consistent policy. Maybe you need more moderation from members to stop you having to trawl through tedious arguments for possible libel. Or a system where members flag possible libellous comments to you and then you address it, rather than having to read it all.

There have been complaints and emails from who? Forum members? Media? Tennis authorities?

Where to begin.....

What I don't understand is that despite their being nothing that really goes on and nothing that happens concerning Murray, Federer, Djokovic or Nadal, you get some brain dead posters that see fit to post threads with the common goal of annoying and antagonising posters for the sheer hell of it. I find it amazing that one poster in particular see's fit to complain when her favourite player is the subject of much criticism and then proceeds to post garbage about another player proclaim it is a different intention entirely!

You want the bickering to stop. Tell the divvy posters who post articles with the intention of creating bad blood than actually debating to stop with the silly articles and debate sensibly. If you are a regular poster in the tennis section you will find the posters who's sole purpose is to annoy.

Also I find that posters 'attack' other posters opinions. Me aside I see other posters do it all the time and feels that it is wholly acceptable. I get angry and annoyed when I see posts or threads with the intention to wind up and annoy others.

I think LF has done a sterling job as modertator. I don't feel the section has gone backwards. The posters that choose to annoy are often the first to cry wolf and expect to hide behind the 'freedom of speech' entitlement, whereas LF sensibly allows the situations to diffuse themselves. If posters are adult enough to post articles to annoy, then frankily they are adult enough to face the criticism that follows them.

In a nutshell it is quite simple.

Forum - Stupid threads/posts = Harmony

YI and other global admins
WIll a simiar ban on PED discussions extend to other sections?

Clearly, this is an important issue across many sports, particularly cycling, athletics and weightlifting (indeed I believe that stection includes a discussion as to whether any of the contributors have used steroids themselves), so I would be disappointed if such a blanket ban was imposed.

Clearly however, libellous statements do need removing, as do deliberately inflammatory posts (and there were some from contributors on both sides in the THASP thread). However, sensible and reasonable discussion of the issues (for example the absurdly low number of doping tests undertaken by the AT and WTA) should be a part of a discussion board.

Dummy, the problem being that it is not done in an adult and sensible manner. I posted plenty of warnings on the previous thread and they were just ignored.

Henman, the complaints were from existing members and potential new members who were disgusted at the comments.

Regarding the thread, it stirs curiousity that a 'clean' tennis player would clearly come out and declare that their was 'no evidence' for a convinction to be made, yet there was enough to pin on the guilty party. Whilst I haven't a problem with athletes defending other athletes, such a statement however controversial will still stir speculation. Take the 'Racist' incidents in football recently. Do Liverpool tolerate racism given Suarez's actions? Does Capello support Racists given his support for John Terry? So you see it does bring a balanced view. Posters however have a duty to comply with the rules and not publish anything that can be considered libelous no matter how strong their views are.

Unfortunately the posters couldn't comply with the rules and my warnings LK, so the extreme has been taken. As Admin I have a duty to the forum and this section.

I do not want members being deterred from posting or new members joining. So if it means knocking this on the head, then so be it. As I said, we can not please everyone all of the time so I am catering for the majority. And judging from the pm's I am receiving, it is the right decision.

I have no issues with the article being removed YI. I just want posters to be sensible with what they post and actually be constructive with the section. I do feel this section still has a lot to offer. However, there will be periods when crap is posted. Take this week. Only Federer in the top 5 is playing this week. Murray and Djokovic do not return to action until 28th Feb. Nadal is out for the month. It kills interest for some, but others will still follow the tennis regardless of who is playing. Let's hope that latter is discussed more in the future. I am disappointed that the Vault section has not had more views or input from fellow posters

I read the threads in question the other day with mounting disquiet because I felt they were becoming potentially libellous in the extreme.

However, having said all that, it is a shame that a more circumspect discussion couldn't have gone ahead because I think it is perfectly valid to ask whether if the sport continues in the direction it is going with all tournaments requiring the endurance of great clay battles the temptation to experiment with peds will be overwhelming for players - not necessarily the top guys at all, but the players who struggle with achieving and maintaining peak fitness and wish to compete with players who are extraordinary athletes as well as great players. Not to mention the risk that young players might be under from unscrupulous guardians/coaches before they are really mature enough to appreciate all the associated long term health risks.

Regarding a certain Spanish players comments about a Spanish cyclist - it seems extraordinary, but then he just appears to be fairly anti establishment about a whole variety of issues this year. Whatever the reason, it was ill considered of him and does mean that people will wonder.

I think this forum needs to move beyond discussing Nadal so heavily...it seems he's the topic of discussion on every thread at times and has been since this forum almost started. Would be nice to not have to read about him and how bad his brand of tennis is for a change. Yes, there are issues with the modern game but is this all down to one player? I think not.

Re: PEDs, I think the thread had to be pulled, it crossed the line too often into potentially libellous territory and removing posts after a while isnt a strong enough course of action. Posters need to learn that freedom of expression comes with responsibility, otherwise anarchy can follow that could bring the whole place down.

The forum will always have vested interests, fair enough - difference of opinion is good, and as LK says people should be able to sort themselves out and threads to find fair balance...but there are times where although posts dont cross the line of moderation, they can collectively drag the place down in tone and feel over the course of time.

Hopefully, the place can thrive from abit more positivity and discussing whats good about tennis and its players, not always whats wrong with the game and how certain players are the death of tennis.

Thing is lydian when 'drugs' in sports are mentioned, Nadal's name springs right to the top. Why? Purely because his detractors want a simplfied excuse for his success. For his style of tennis, to some it takes just stamina and that 'substances' have to play part because scientifically it is nye on impossible to win using such energy, but for some reason the godfather of 'physical' tennis Lendl seems excused for such a crime.

Once their is acceptance that Nadal is just that good and talented, we might see this particular topic come to end.

Agree LK....Nadal gets it in the neck whereas no-one questions Djokovic who is able to live with Nadal shot for shot, hour by hour. Similarly Federer lived with Nadal for 5hrs+ at Rome 2006...and as you say there have been others like Muster, Lendl who werent questioned in this way.

Nadal was beating seasoned pro's on clay since he was 15 yrs old...he's a "freak" of the game, a raw talent with amazing fitness and a winning mentality...its all part of his mix of skills. I read an article by Steve Tignor yesterday saying similar things about how the skills of guys like Nadal and Djokovic are underappreciated because everyone always looks to the "maestro" Federer. But they dont mention Nadal's skills and shots...the amazing running FHs and shots under pressure, the most secure overhead in the game, the strength on the BH at full stretch, the amazing amount of FH spin thats completely unique in the game and he's had from an early age...etc. Its easier to knock and pull down something thats not well understood...like you I hope this topic comes to an end.

I absolutely agree with you Lydian that any discussion on this issue should be able to be had without talking about Nadal - though clearly his recent comments and other things, like the scurrilous French mean that he would be quoted in such a debate - that certainly does not mean that he, or any other player, should be accused of any trangression. The threads that were removed did contain arguments that said much more about personal prejudices and dislikes than about any one player. Some posts definitely crossed lines and I think a lot of people probably stayed away because the thread had threatened to get a little out of hand.

It would be a shame to think that peds are a no go area for discussion as long it remains general rather than launching an attack on specific players. - For the forseeable future I agree that this subject area has been thoroughly exhausted.

Nicely put TP, I agree with all you said.

Some have difficulty separating their emotion from their "intellectual" thinking. Some seem to have an emotional and personal investment in tennis as a spectator sport. This is to some extent how professional sport makes its money, generating or exploiting this emotional / personal investment of the individual, the consumer, the spectator, the fan. It seems endemic within sport, particularly teams sports, e.g. football. Sport is big business and this forum probably wouldn't exist without it.

It is interesting to contrast and compare the issues raised by the emotionally commited "fan", in particular their sense of "fairness" and their sense of how the sport "should be played". These latter considerations can generate qualities that are found in religion - righteousness accompanied by self-appointed defenders of the "faith". Of course you don't have to be emotionally commited to engage in the debate.

I saw the thread in general but I was travelling last week and adjusting back to States time and seeing old friends and all of that so really didn't have time to contribute. I think it is a mistake to ban a certain viable topic like PED abuse. However, due to libel laws in the UK and in other places those directed at an individual lacking evidentiary support should be editted and erased. I mean known facts like Odesnik can be mentioned, or problems with the testing regime in general can be discussed. But as one particular poster with an agenda did, naming names and then naming the exact substances based on his expertise, well this kind of conduct in my opinion should not be allowed.

Still, I oppose the banning of said topic per se. I think if people don't make wildly unsubstantiated claims, stick to facts then it is a valuable discussion to have. Unfortunately, I do realize the mods are in a dilema because of stringent European libel laws. In the US we have no such problem you can pretty much say whatever the hell you like about a celebrity and can't be prosecuted criminally and rarely be prosecuted civilly. USA, USA, USA, USA!!!!!!!! Now if it was only legal to drink in public as a pre-teen we would be equal in Socal's freedom index to europe.

I generally avoid threads that use large fonts and different coloured letters, so that one tedious comment covers the entire page, gimmie a break!

As for the "one " player, i.e. Nadal, some of his fans are very thin-skinned. I am yet to see any of them write a wholesome article about their favourite player. All they seem to be capable of doing is "defend" him...and if it gets too much whine to MODS.

I've said it a long time ago and still stand by that opinion that Nadal is the death of tennis.
Players these days spend more time working on their fitness than variety of shot-making.
Even Djokovic has changed his original game and racquet a few years ago. IN my opinion he is a far more talented player than Nadal with greater variety which is why he has no trouble beating him now.
It grieves me that players are measured as athletes now.

WTA is a living proof of the sad state of "fit" bashers.
OK, Nadal is not a pure basher, but the tedium of his tennis is soul-killing.

Before Nole turned up on the scene I could genuinely never understand how somoene would prefer Nadal to Federer.
I still don't understand it and despite my very open voicing of the opinion, no Nadal fan has EVER managed to answer straight.

Finally, the worst bit is that some Nadal fans take any criticism of Nadal personally and rather than constructing an argument and present their stand all they seem to do is feel threatened and protective.
Chill out, it's only tennis.

Ban all talk on PEDs and pretend it doesn't happen.

Quite apt given that's more or less the ITFs standpoint on drugs.

noleisthebest wrote:
I could genuinely never understand how somoene would prefer Nadal to Federer.

Poor you Don't worry you'll get it one day.
In the meantime I can give you some lollipops.

amritia3ee wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:
I could genuinely never understand how somoene would prefer Nadal to Federer.

Poor you Don't worry you'll get it one day.
In the meantime I can give you some lollipops.

Why not just explain it? (On a new thread would be better.) We all have reasaons why we like the players we do.

noleisthebest. I could genuinely never understand how anyone could think noleisthebest! Ha ha ha! I might just repeat this every time his name is mentioned just for fun. I'm sure everyone wouldn't get bored as they would be anxious to hear my opinion yet again...

Would you like to know how I think Nole is the death of tennis? I've said it before and I'l say it again...

Also he isn't good looking. Ha ha ha!

and what's he been upto in that egg?

I'm sorry moderators... I just don't know what came over me...

Wait am I meant to explain why NITB doesn't understand why different people have different opinions?
And why should I care what she thinks, I can support any player I want. If I created a new thread on why I supported nadal then it would just turn into another platform for haters who claim nadal is the 'death of tennis.'

I actually acknowledge that there are many great players and i recognise that Djokovic has been the number 1 player in the last 12 months, the rankings don't lie. They might as well rename 606v2 ihatenadal.com and people like NITB can continuously repeat the line 'nadal is the death of tennis' it'll save us a lot of time.

Anyway in other news both nadal and federer are in the verge of reaching 10 million facebook fans, a great feat for both players! Has Djokovic reached 2 million yet?

Y I Man wrote:Going forward, all talk about PED's within tennis is not permitted. Any articles or posts about this subject will be deleted. Not only does it put off members (as mentioned above) but it will always revolve around one player. It is not healthy for the section, for the members or for this site.

I haven't read that THASP thread so I am not aware of the problems referred here. But it's sad if we can't discuss this matter here, if/when needed....like we did in the past. This site will lose some interest if we can only discuss tennis without considering the "energy" behind the performance of those athletes...When all mainstream tennis greats and commentators start to mention it more and more, this forum gets silent. Strange.

The problem being Tenez, is that some can not restrain themselves and libellous comments are made and the arguments start.

As mentioned, we have made this call because of several complaints from existing members and from possible new members looking in on the section together with warnings on the thread by the Admin being ignored.

I dont want to restrict what you talk about, please believe that, but what other choice do we have?

Y I Man wrote:The problem being Tenez, is that some can not restrain themselves and libellous comments are made and the arguments start.

So isn't the job of moderators to select and handle the trouble makers from the rest? Moderators are there to moderate a debate...not to eradicate it. We have had very sensible and interesting discussions in teh past on this matter with 90% of the posters. If 10% start to go overboard, they shoudl be warned and their post deleted....not the thread itself.

I agree those debates on PED should be heavily moderated...but talking about tennis without possible PED is a bit like talking about WWF seriously.

Some of us do take WWE seriously

I understand what you are saying, but there were plenty warnings. The issue being that some chose to constantly ignore the warnings (and several posts where deleted/edited etc in any event)

Its either the thread and subject is gone, or the members ignoring warnings on the subject are gone. I would not prefer the latter.

But if the general consensus is that you would prefer the latter, then we can role with that.

JuliusHMarx wrote:

amritia3ee wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:
I could genuinely never understand how somoene would prefer Nadal to Federer.

Poor you Don't worry you'll get it one day.
In the meantime I can give you some lollipops.

Why not just explain it? (On a new thread would be better.) We all have reasaons why we like the players we do.

That would be the day...

amritia3ee wrote:Wait am I meant to explain why NITB doesn't understand why different people have different opinions?
And why should I care what she thinks, I can support any player I want. If I created a new thread on why I supported nadal then it would just turn into another platform for haters who claim nadal is the 'death of tennis.'

I actually acknowledge that there are many great players and i recognise that Djokovic has been the number 1 player in the last 12 months, the rankings don't lie. They might as well rename 606v2 ihatenadal.com and people like NITB can continuously repeat the line 'nadal is the death of tennis' it'll save us a lot of time.

Anyway in other news both nadal and federer are in the verge of reaching 10 million facebook fans, a great feat for both players! Has Djokovic reached 2 million yet?

OK, then what IS your opinion?
Also, just to fill you out on some details, I am not a Nole or anyone's Facebook fan. I find all that idolatry infantile and degrading. So, keep the lollipops for the 10million Nadal fans.

I support nadal because I prefer to watch his style of tennis compared to the other players. I support nadal because he is one if the most humble players in the world, always giving his opponent credit. I support nadal because he never gives up, whatever the situation. He is an inspiration to me, and many other people in the world. Just some of the many reasons I am a nadal fan.

10 million lollipops? I don't have that many
And of course nadal has many fans who are not on Facebook.

The fact of the matter is nadal has inspired millions of people around the world. And unfortunately for you, no matter how many times you claim nadal is the death if tennis, no matter how many times haters post hate messages, you can never change this fact.

The discussion on the so-called THASP thread are mirrored here, rather clearly, despite efforts to disguise it and couch it in civilised debate.

Whatever be our individual player preferences, the perception that any negative comments about a player need to be defended by their respective fans is where the problem seems to be.

The problem lies on both sides, the attackers and the defenders. As NITB says, attackers and defenders, both need to become better debaters.

amritia3ee wrote:I support nadal because I prefer to watch his style of tennis compared to the other players. I support nadal because he is one if the most humble players in the world, always giving his opponent credit. I support nadal because he never gives up, whatever the situation. He is an inspiration to me, and many other people in the world. Just some of the many reasons I am a nadal fan.

There are many players who have the same qualities, and their respective fans have chosen the players because of qualities that they have. Be respectful of players and their fans.

Walk away form a fight, otherwise it leads to war. Look around you and see history to see what war brings. It causes untold destruction, as it will cause the death of 606v2 and other forums where such disrespect for players and posters is sown.

The sport of Tennis has given each of you players to be a fan of. A player at ATP #1000 is an ATP #1, without the titles. They deserve respect. You can debate playing styles.

If there is disrespect for another poster, that is what is returned. Courtesy begets courtesy.

It is sad to see a sport of Tennis, which has given us much joy, is now in disrepute on 606v2, because we do not, or cannot respect each other or the players which each of us is a fan of.

JuliusHMarx wrote:

amritia3ee wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:
I could genuinely never understand how somoene would prefer Nadal to Federer.

Poor you Don't worry you'll get it one day.
In the meantime I can give you some lollipops.

Why not just explain it? (On a new thread would be better.) We all have reasaons why we like the players we do.

It's not rocket science - the answer is out there.

It's been almost eight years since Nadal broke into the publics consciouness by beating Roger Federer at the 2004 Miami Masters. Can it really be said that during this period of time there has been nothing to read or listen to that might "explain" why some might like Nadals style of play and the way he conducts himself?

When 606 v2 first started out, there were a group of moderately hard-core Nadal supporters that helped to build up this here tennis section. They eventually all left "complaining" that they had "had enough" of what they felt were a constant barrage of "snide" remarks on themselves because of whom they supported, plus the "barrage" of what they felt were anti-nadal comments ranging from moonballing, talentless, time between points cheating and "doping". A constant stream of negativity with little to no positivity for balance. Whether this was true or not is not for me to judge, but they left nevertheless.

There then followed a form of stability with a "moderate" bias towards a "Federer fan" viewpoint. This was then "disturbed" with the arrival of "amritia3ee" who showed a little "resistance" in defending the "Nadal is good viewpoint" and then everything kicked off again (forgive me if I have left anyone out). Anyway It seems now to have restabilised (maybe).

However, the suggestion that after eight years of "Rafael Nadal", that an ardent follower of tennis would not be aware of the reasons why some might like Nadal's style of play and general conduct is bordering on the disingenuous.

Anyway this is just an opinion.

laverfan wrote:The discussion on the so-called THASP thread are mirrored here, rather clearly, despite efforts to disguise it and couch it in civilised debate.

Whatever be our individual player preferences, the perception that any negative comments about a player need to be defended by their respective fans is where the problem seems to be.

The problem lies on both sides, the attackers and the defenders. As NITB says, attackers and defenders, both need to become better debaters.

amritia3ee wrote:I support nadal because I prefer to watch his style of tennis compared to the other players. I support nadal because he is one if the most humble players in the world, always giving his opponent credit. I support nadal because he never gives up, whatever the situation. He is an inspiration to me, and many other people in the world. Just some of the many reasons I am a nadal fan.

There are many players who have the same qualities, and their respective fans have chosen the players because of qualities that they have. Be respectful of players and their fans.

Walk away form a fight, otherwise it leads to war. Look around you and see history to see what war brings. It causes untold destruction, as it will cause the death of 606v2 and other forums where such disrespect for players and posters is sown.

The sport of Tennis has given each of you players to be a fan of. A player at ATP #1000 is an ATP #1, without the titles. They deserve respect. You can debate playing styles.

If there is disrespect for another poster, that is what is returned. Courtesy begets courtesy.

It is sad to see a sport of Tennis, which has given us much joy, is now in disrepute on 606v2, because we do not, or cannot respect each other or the players which each of us is a fan of.

laverfan.

I have to defend aimrtia3ee here. I do agree that what happened on that toxic thread is happening here. However I think that aimrtia3ee sounds quite civilised. If you noted I also responded to some of the comments by noleisthebest but I chose to respond not in the civilised way that aimrtia3ee did but rather in the spirit of noleisthebests (or rather "ihaterafa") deliberately provocative, repetative and quite frankly childish comments.

The problem with the other thread IMO wasn't the discussion of drugs in tennis but the way it was turned into an "ihaterafa" thread. A few posters who's only interest in tennis appears to be to list all the things they dislike about this player over and over again. They kill any sort of discussion as others feel the need to respond to all the insults rather than discuss the topic. And others feel the need to just join in with the insults.

If I remember on that thread you even joined in posting a link to Nadal's photoshoot for a magazine. I suppose the thread was deleted before you had seen my response? But basically I was saying "what did that have to do with drugs in tennis?" This is a discussion thread and of course there will be many who dislike particular players. When all the dislike is thrown at one player and it is done so in such a way that it spams across all threads in a way that you can't read anything without hearing about how much certain posters dislike this player this site becomes like an anti fan club.

I would guess that most post here rather than on fan sites of individual players because they have a more general interest in tennis. For the same reason most (I hope) would not want to be members of an "anti fan club". How to stop it? Well at least aimria3ee is trying.

Nore Staat wrote:

JuliusHMarx wrote:

amritia3ee wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:
I could genuinely never understand how somoene would prefer Nadal to Federer.

Poor you Don't worry you'll get it one day.
In the meantime I can give you some lollipops.

Why not just explain it? (On a new thread would be better.) We all have reasaons why we like the players we do.

It's not rocket science - the answer is out there.....

.....However, the suggestion that after eight years of "Rafael Nadal", that an ardent follower of tennis would not be aware of the reasons why some might like Nadal's style of play and general conduct is bordering on the disingenuous.

Anyway this is just an opinion.

I probably didn't phrase it very well. For the most part I like watching Rafa play, but I didn't want to make any assumptions about why any poster likes the player they do (which is why I asked the question, which amritia answered well). Also, many people can appreciate the qualities amiritia listed without being a Rafa fan, as such.
I'm sure different Rafa fans (or Fed or whoever) like Rafa for both similar and for some different reasons. One reason I like Rafa is that every year during the French Open I holiday in Majorca and drive through Manacor and also spend a day in Porto Cristo, so I usually support him during the French Open. It may not sound like a rational reason, but it's as good as any other I can think of.

Another thread asked the question about why we choose the players we support (and it is a choice) but not many posters were forthcoming about specifics. Sure, everyone can like Fed's elegant style, or Rafa's never-say-die attitude or something about all the top players, but is that be enough to become a fan - I mean, a real fan, not just someone who can appreciate the way they play.

JuliousHMarx

I can understand your reasons for supporting Nadal during French Open. Being in Majorca would give you some sort or connection not to mention that others there would in the main be supporting him. It's understandable to sort of catch the feeling of the moment. Its as good and rational a reason as any. You should have posted it in that other thread.

hawkeye wrote:
I have to defend aimrtia3ee here. I do agree that what happened on that toxic thread is happening here. However I think that aimrtia3ee sounds quite civilised. If you noted I also responded to some of the comments by noleisthebest but I chose to respond not in the civilised way that aimrtia3ee did but rather in the spirit of noleisthebests (or rather "ihaterafa") deliberately provocative, repetative and quite frankly childish comments.


The problem with the other thread IMO wasn't the discussion of drugs in tennis but the way it was turned into an "ihaterafa" thread. A few posters who's only interest in tennis appears to be to list all the things they dislike about this player over and over again. They kill any sort of discussion as others feel the need to respond to all the insults rather than discuss the topic. And others feel the need to just join in with the insults.

Amrit civilized?? He is just as civilized as Nadal is playing by the time rules. You are here to defend a poster who turns a thread into bickering dogfight. He continues it relentlessly and doesn't stop even when he is warned about it. He can stoop so low as to edit people's posts and try to win the argument. Ah.. but after all you too are a Nadal fan. And like Nadal you too will resort to any levels to win. Every time I see anything spoken against Nadal, fans like you and amrit will dismiss everything and turn it to branding the poster as "Nadal haters". No one here know Nadal anything more than what they see him on court or interviews. How will some hate him personally. But one can talk about his gamesmanship, selfish proposals to suite his own agenda etc etc. This was also being discussed in the thread ( the deleted one ) which none of you Nadal fans answered. If someone talk about it, he doesn't become Nadal hater. Looks like the only banding you want have for yourselves is of "Nadal buttwiper" because thats what you essentially behave like.

If the drugs is discussed, there will be names that come out. I have no problem with using names. If I see some reason to be suspicious, I have the right to talk about it. If you don't see any reason, so be it. Defend your player based on reasoning. If you see for some other player, bring out your reasons and I'll talk about it. I won't brand anyone calling them haters.

hawkeye wrote:I would guess that most post here rather than on fan sites of individual players because they have a more general interest in tennis. For the same reason most (I hope) would not want to be members of an "anti fan club". How to stop it? Well at least aimria3ee is trying.

What amri is trying is nothing but turning this board into the comments section of youtube. He is relentless and shamless in his acts. Look at his posts and you'll know. There was a chaos on 606v2 in December as well, and it was surrounding amrit and SA mainly. Do you see a coincidence?

laverfan wrote:

As NITB says, attackers and defenders, both need to become better debaters.

amritia3ee wrote:I support nadal because I prefer to watch his style of tennis compared to the other players. I support nadal because he is one if the most humble players in the world, always giving his opponent credit. I support nadal because he never gives up, whatever the situation. He is an inspiration to me, and many other people in the world. Just some of the many reasons I am a nadal fan.

There are many players who have the same qualities, and their respective fans have chosen the players because of qualities that they have. Be respectful of players and their fans.

Walk away form a fight, otherwise it leads to war. Look around you and see history to see what war brings. It causes untold destruction, as it will cause the death of 606v2 and other forums where such disrespect for players and posters is sown.

The sport of Tennis has given each of you players to be a fan of. A player at ATP #1000 is an ATP #1, without the titles. They deserve respect. You can debate playing styles.

If there is disrespect for another poster, that is what is returned. Courtesy begets courtesy.

It is sad to see a sport of Tennis, which has given us much joy, is now in disrepute on 606v2, because we do not, or cannot respect each other or the players which each of us is a fan of.

Laverfan, I am extremely insulted by your claim. You seem to indicate here I have insulted and disrepected any other player. This is not the case at all. I have always acknowldged that there are many great players currently in the world, and I said myself Djokovic deserves to be number 1 as he has been the best player in the world in the past 12 months.
NITB on the other hand hinted that there is no reason to support Nadal and claimed he was the death of tennis. I replied to this and explained why I like Nadal.
Instead of adressing NITB's claim you quoted my comment and attacked me for just saying why I support Nadal. You used my post to demonstrate how posters don't tolerate other players instead of nitb's, instead I acknowdlged that Djokovic is the best in the world nitb said nadal was the death of tennis. Disappointing.

I support nadal because he is one if the most humble players in the world

"I think he is going to feel the pressure in his first Grand Slam final. If he plays like today then he is going to have his chances against either, but the truth is that I don't think that is his real level, he can't play like this every time." Nadal after losing badly to Tsonga