Wales Team vs Italy

Gatland has already come out and said that there wont be wholesale changes against the Italians which to a certain extent I agree with. However there are a couple of players who could probably do with a rest and a couple who maybe we needto protect for the French game. I think this is a real important selection for Warren as we need to win and win well but the last thing we want are lots of battered bruised players needing recovery heading into the French game. On the other hand there are some players who need gametime. I would look at some of our other options but not destroy the team.

1. Gethin,
2. Smiler - if fit if not Owens deserved to keep his spot but I see Rees as our best hooker still
3. Mitchell - I think he needs a game for his development, Adam is vital to our success against the french and Italys scrum without Castro is not as scary.
4. AWJ - needs more game time
5. Ian Evans
6. Lydiate
7. Warburton - Tipuric to come on if we build a lead as Warburton will be needed on full fire against the French
8. Faletau
9. Phillips- I would pull Spikey off about 50-60 if we have built a good lead and give Lloyd a run
10. Priestland- before today I would maybe have given scabby a run out at ten but I think RP needs to get back in the saddle and get over todays dire performance
11. North
12. Henson - playing for the blues has looked better each game with Roberts taking a knock today I think we need to protect him a bit as he is vital against the French
13. JD - One of our best performers this season.
14. Cuthbert - quiet today but the more games he has the better he will get.
15. Halfpenny - Unless Hook is at ten then I would let leigh have a break he is another needed against the French so perhaps Byrne to come in

16. James
17. Owens
18. Ryan
19. Tipuric
20.Lloyd W
21. Hook
22. Williams

We could of course change everything and put out the team below but Im hoping Gatland has learnt his lesson about that although it doesnt look too bad a side.

1. Gill
2. Smiler
3. Mitchell
4. AWJ
5. Ian
6. Shingler
7. Tipuric
8. Ryan
9. Lloyd
10. Hook
11. Robinson
12. Henson
13. Williams
14. Cuthbert
15. Byrne

16. James
17. Hibbard
18. Read
19. Powell
20. Phillips
21. Priestland
22. Halfpenny.

I'd keep your selection at ref constant, he played another blinder for you tonight!

ANY BODY ANY WHERE BUT NOT HOOK !!!!!! HE'S GONE,HE'S A LUCKY BOY TO BE WHERE HE IS AT THE MOMENT, LEAVE HIM THERE, HE CANT MATCH UP TO THE GUYS WE HAVE NOW. IF HE HAD COME ON TODAY AT 10, EVEN WITH RP PLAYING THE WORST EVER, WE WOULD HAVE LOST.

Priestland's performance today was quite a bit worse than Hook's in the World Cup. He got charged down by a lumbering 2nd rower (not even Charged-own Charlie), got turned over, threw hospital passes. missed touches, kicked away possession in opposing 22, gave away a penalty (which Farrell luckily missed) in front of the posts. And this is after he had had the goal-kicking taken away from him to alleviate the pressure.

Don't see how you can say we would have lost with Hook on - or Jones for that matter. The win came from Scott Williams' piece of magic - nothing to do with RP. Hook played a half against Scotland and Ireland and did an OK job and has been starting regularly for ASP at 10, where he has been one of the best players in a crappy side.

I think Gatland would have brought Hook on if he had been available, but was unwilling to risk the aging Wellies.

Even so, I think Priestland must start against Italy. He deserves - and needs - a chance at redemption. No improvement, then it's time to think again.

miteyironpaw wrote:I'd keep your selection at ref constant, he played another blinder for you tonight!

Build a bridge and ether jump off it or get over it. You are becoming quite frankly boring and childish as well as you mouth of sour grapes.

Personaly if i was selecting the team, after todays performance i would drop Piestland, and bring back Stephen Jones.

Stephen Jones is too old and slow. Maybe it's time to look at Dan Biggar again. Priestland was much worse yesterday than Biggar was in his last game for Wales, when he got named and shamed by the coaching team and chucked from the squad. That was just for not drawing his man in an overlap situation, if I remember correctly!

They won't look outside the squad unless forced to by injury. RP will start, but hook will come on at 50 minutes.

Glas a du wrote:They won't look outside the squad unless forced to by injury. RP will start, but hook will come on at 50 minutes.

Agreed. I'm sure Gatland will give RP the chance to redeem himself against Italy and France but if he performs anything like as badly in those then I think Gats will have to give someone else a go, probably Hook, on the summer tour. RP could easily turn things around with a couple of strong games but his performance yesterday was worse than any performance by Hook at 10 for Wales, world cup included. I personally think RP can bounce back from this though.

miteyironpaw wrote:I'd keep your selection at ref constant, he played another blinder for you tonight!

Really?

I thought he did England no end of favours. Where was the yellow card for the lineout charge??

Why did he give England a 45 second advantage before coming back for a penalty but gave Wales 5 seconds in a similar position.

Why did he not hand out a final warning when Wales had destroyed Englands scrum on their line twice?

I said to my mates at the time I think he is angling for a job at the RFU the way he was going. Very poor performance from him.

There are so many incidents in a game that could go either way. The stats show a very close game, which is what it was, decided by one piece of individual magic.

As for the Strettle "try". blame Lawes for that too. It was his leg in the way of the camera angle that prevented a clear view of the grounding, if indeed there was a grounding. We'll never know. I would give Flood's chances of getting the conversion as less than 25% .

We will never know

(and in these circumstances, thank the Lord for that)

doctornickolas wrote:

miteyironpaw wrote:I'd keep your selection at ref constant, he played another blinder for you tonight!

Really?

I thought he did England no end of favours. Where was the yellow card for the lineout charge??

Why did he give England a 45 second advantage before coming back for a penalty but gave Wales 5 seconds in a similar position.

Why did he not hand out a final warning when Wales had destroyed Englands scrum on their line twice?

I said to my mates at the time I think he is angling for a job at the RFU the way he was going. Very poor performance from him.

Spot on - everyone moaning (Strettle included) about Walsh not going back for the penalty advantage at the end of ignoring the fact that exactly the same happened to Wales earlier in the 2nd half when we were attacking near the England try line. I think it was when Williams butchered that chance. Also a fairly short advantage. Walsh actually gave England a much longer advantage in the 1st half which resulted in 3 points to England. Of course he made a few controversial calls, but they went both ways. As far as Strettle's non-try went, Walsh clearly said to the touch judge initially that he thought it was held up - the touch couldn't confirm either way and nor could the TMO. If there was no TMO Walsh wouldn't have awarded a try anyway. Ryan Jones also probably scored against Ireland (probably would have been given pre-TMO days) but it couldn't be given on the TV replays - at least Ryan didn't complain afterwards about it.

I also agree about Robshaw. Reckless rather than intentional, but what happened to Warburton was more dangerous than Warbs' tackle on Clerc! A yellow card for England at that point would have made a big difference.

Coulda, woulda, shoulda.

A very close game, decided by a few key moments , as all such games are.

England had a one man advantage for 10 mins and failed to make it pay. That was decisive.

Then one moment of brilliance (and luck) from Scott Williams won the game.

Even if the Strettle try had been awarded, even if Flood had nailed a very hard conversion - even then, it would have just been a draw.

Coulda, woulda, shoulda.

But well played England, who have uncovered some fine young players. Gatland has got plenty to think about.

[quote="miteyironpaw"]I'd keep your selection at ref constant, he played another blinder for you tonight![/quote]



For those who dont know-mitey iron paw is a kiwi ,pretending to be english...he originally posted as the grey ghost.....any one familiar with the original 606 will tell you that the guy is a serial WUM...well done wales...opptimistic about England .

Roberts is out for the next two matches.

Time to start Scott Williams with JD2, Beck on the bench. Prefer that to Henson, tbh.

Roberts route-one no-offload crash ball was easily contained by England. We need a Plan B.

That's the game plan Sam.

DO NOT DROP PRIESTLAND!

Are you all morons? We still won at Twickenham didn't we?

He made a few mistakes. It's a learning curve the occasion was massive. He will be a better player for it.

Gotta start with Scotty Williams now!

Wales defence improving with each game!

2 tries
1 try
0 tries

When a player puts in a shocking bad performance - one of the worst from a Welsh 10 I have seen in 45 years - do you always say "he will be better for it?" Did you say the same about Biggar, Tom James, Brew etc?

idris wrote:DO NOT DROP PRIESTLAND!

Are you all morons? We still won at Twickenham didn't we?

He made a few mistakes. It's a learning curve the occasion was massive. He will be a better player for it.

Nonsense. He's had any amount of bad games for the Scarlets and still hasnt learnt.

OK fair points.

Well if our 10 can play rubbish and get sent off and Wales STILL win at HQ, we must have a very good side.

That's right. Look I've been confounded by him once at the WC, I'd be delighted if it happens again tbh!

freeman lowell wrote:

miteyironpaw wrote:I'd keep your selection at ref constant, he played another blinder for you tonight!

For those who dont know-mitey iron paw is a kiwi ,pretending to be english...he originally posted as the grey ghost.....any one familiar with the original 606 will tell you that the guy is a serial WUM...well done wales...opptimistic about England .

That would explain his fondness for the haka. Spread the word.

The Rhys priestland question is a puzzler, Certainly his tactical kicking is a work in progress and yesterday was apalling. The chargedown, yellow card poor passing and kicking was reminiscent of a rabbit caught in teh headligghts. The exact opposite of what happened in the RWC warmups.

However, I still rate him above Biggar who may be able to kick but cant pass wont tackle and cant run. As for Morgan, please he would get absolutly battered at international level until he learns how to tackle. Thats not about his size because small men can and do tackle MM doesnt. Wellies is a retrograde choice, so that leaves Tovey who I do rate highly but in a Dragons side that has struggled all season he is not getting a look in.

Next year we will have four young tens in each of the regions all fighting it out which I think is good for us. Personally of the four Steffan Jones is the one I like the most and with Tovey moving to Cardiff he is going to get a chanceto shine more regularly. I dont see us going outside the squad for a pivot this championship so maybe Scabby deserves a run out against the Italians.

samuraidragon wrote:When a player puts in a shocking bad performance - one of the worst from a Welsh 10 I have seen in 45 years - do you always say "he will be better for it?" Did you say the same about Biggar, Tom James, Brew etc?

Worst in 45 years!!! Clearly you have forgotten Hook's last 6N start (France last season). He got charged down, wimped out on a tackle which led to France's first try and got sin binned for tackling a player without the ball. And whist he was off France scored again through the hole Hook would have been standing in.

Priestland was on the end of a slow service from Phillips (largely due to England slowing down the ball), Roberts was really out of sorts, I think he was carrying an injury from the start, (When Scott Williams came on did you notice Tuilagi went very quiet!) he will learn, he created a try scoring oportunity in the last 10 mins (only for Scott Williams to botch it). Don't forget he is now being targeted as the man who makes the Wales back line tick, Gatland and Howley need to help him develop a tactic to counter act this attention.

The options left to Wales are Wellies, at 34 way past his best but still probably second choice, Hook (not an internatiional 10), Biggar and Tovey both of whom are struggling for their regions. Give Priestland another start, better service and more support and he will hopefully come good.

"One of the worst," I said, and I stand by that. I fault Phillips as well, but the service for the charge-down was not slow. Priestland had all the time in the world. It was Botha lumbering towards him from 25 yards away, if he had eyes to to look, not Bryan Habana.

And let's not forget the missed touches from PENALTIES, the penalty given away in front of the post (that Farrell luckily missed) , the absurd chip in the English 22, the turnover after trying to run from our own 22, the ambulance pass to JD2 in our own 22. This is happening, btw, after he had the goal-kicking responsibilities removed from him to alleviate the pressure.

RP did no 'create' an opportunity for Scott Williams either. He just shipped him a standard.pass. Scott Williams created the opportunity by beating Tuilagi, but then proceeded to butcher it.

Yes, give him another start by all means. But if it starts to pear-shaped again, haul him off pronto.

Dont know why you would pick Henson over Williams regardless of how well Williams played yesterday.

1. Gill
2. Owens
3. James / Mitchell
4. AWJ
5. Evans
6. Jones
7. Tipuric
8. Faletau
9. Phillips
10. Priestland (the lad needs to regain confidence)
11. North
12. Williams if Roberts is out
13. Davies
14. Cuthbert
15. Halfpenny

16. Owens
17. James / Mitchell
18. Reed
19. Shingler
20. L Williams
21. Hook
22. S Williams if Roberts is in otherwise Byrne

Don't think we should take Italy lightly. The best possible result would give us confidence for the France game. So only changes where required by injury. I wouldn't put Byrne on the bench anyway as he only covers one position. If Williams plays, as seems likely, I would have Beck.

[
RP did no 'create' an opportunity for Scott Williams either. He just shipped him a standard.pass. Scott Williams created the opportunity by beating Tuilagi, but then proceeded to butcher it.

[/quote]

Watch it again, RP called a miss move where North comes in between 10 and 12. That drew in Tuilagi and gave Williams the room to go outside him. A rare piece of brilliance unfortunately butchered by Williams not passing with two men unmarked outside him.

[
RP did no 'create' an opportunity for Scott Williams either. He just shipped him a standard.pass. Scott Williams created the opportunity by beating Tuilagi, but then proceeded to butcher it.

[/quote]

Watch it again, RP called a miss move where North comes in between 10 and 12. That drew in Tuilagi and gave Williams the room to go outside him. A rare piece of brilliance, unfortunately butchered by Williams not passing with two men unmarked outside him.

15 Halfpenny
14 Cuthbert
13 J.Davies
12 Scott Williams
11 George North
10 Priestland
9 Mike Phillips
8 Faletau
7 Warburton
6 Ryan Jones
5 Ianto Evans
4 AWJ
3 Adam Jones
2 Smiler
1 Gethin Jenkins

16 Hook
17 L.Williams
18 Tipuric
19 Shingler
20 Craig Mitchell
21 Ken Owens
22 Paul James

Why drop Lydiate? again our top tackler who gives Warburton the space to do his roving and allows faletau to carry. Ryans a great player but the balance of the backrow is somthing I wouldnt mess with at the moment it works well. Five forwards on the bench as well?

Cadair Idris wrote:

doctornickolas wrote:

miteyironpaw wrote:I'd keep your selection at ref constant, he played another blinder for you tonight!

Really?

I thought he did England no end of favours. Where was the yellow card for the lineout charge??

Why did he give England a 45 second advantage before coming back for a penalty but gave Wales 5 seconds in a similar position.

Why did he not hand out a final warning when Wales had destroyed Englands scrum on their line twice?

I said to my mates at the time I think he is angling for a job at the RFU the way he was going. Very poor performance from him.

Spot on - everyone moaning (Strettle included) about Walsh not going back for the penalty advantage at the end of ignoring the fact that exactly the same happened to Wales earlier in the 2nd half when we were attacking near the England try line. I think it was when Williams butchered that chance. Also a fairly short advantage. Walsh actually gave England a much longer advantage in the 1st half which resulted in 3 points to England. Of course he made a few controversial calls, but they went both ways. As far as Strettle's non-try went, Walsh clearly said to the touch judge initially that he thought it was held up - the touch couldn't confirm either way and nor could the TMO. If there was no TMO Walsh wouldn't have awarded a try anyway. Ryan Jones also probably scored against Ireland (probably would have been given pre-TMO days) but it couldn't be given on the TV replays - at least Ryan didn't complain afterwards about it.

I also agree about Robshaw. Reckless rather than intentional, but what happened to Warburton was more dangerous than Warbs' tackle on Clerc! A yellow card for England at that point would have made a big difference.

How can you complain that people are *still* complaining about the ref 24 hours later, and then complain about a ref 14 days ago?

RE: Warburton. There was illegal lifting by Wales in the lineout that led to his fall. The jumpers had bound too low on the legs and he was in a precarious spot. Should have been an England penalty by the letter of the law (check it yourself). Robshaw did little wrong and in fact was trying to break his fall clearly. Very similar to the Schalk Burger incident in the Hurricanes/Sharks game this weekend where the half back leap for the ball and Burger underneath him tried to bring him down safely. Top class from Burger. Karma didn't smile on him.

Hes not complaining about the decision mitey hes pointing out that Englands whining about the TMO was pretty poor sportmanship and that Ryan didnt throw his toys out of the pram and cry to the press when it happened to him. Good sportsmen dont so that but I wouldnt expect you to understand.

Why would Wales be throwing any toys out of the pram? All the calls have gone in their favour! I remember a LOT of toys hurtling out of prams during a certain RWC semi final late last year!

I'm still being hit by low flying toys thrown from cots in Wales over the Andy Haden lineout jumping incident!

sad very very sad mate. your constant sniping and wumming and desperate attention seeking is getting so passe. Maybe create yet another alt account as this one is running out of steam.

samuraidragon wrote:When a player puts in a shocking bad performance - one of the worst from a Welsh 10 I have seen in 45 years - do you always say "he will be better for it?" Did you say the same about Biggar, Tom James, Brew etc?

Amazed that you think that RP performance was worse than Hooks performance against SA in the WC 2011 or against Australia when Wales got drubbed 2-0 in the 2007 series or against France 6Ns 2011, he was dropped after that Australian 07 game and Sweeney was selected, England hammered Wales pre WC 2007 warm-up and Jenkins from then was under pressure, he should never have played at 10 again after that dire performance IMHO. Fast forward 2012 he has played more poor games than good games at 10 in a richly assembled skillful Perpignan team this season, quite often been moved to I/C as a result

Did Jenkins drop him or did Gatland drop him? ............... No they didnt but persued the impossible dream, always select a team around Hook, so yes players have been given chances before RP. Sorry RP had a poor game but nowhere as poor as some of Sweeneys and deffo not has poor as many of Hooks games. More importantly he has proved that when he is on song he is aware, can make the right decisions and create attacking opportunities something which most of your present flyhalfs cannot do. If you play Hook at 10 you will not win the Slam, if RP plays you have a chance

Dependant on injuries

15 Byrne
14 1/2p
13 Williams
12 Davies
11 North
10 RP
9 Phillips
8 Jones
7 Tipuric or Warburton
6 Lydiate or Shingler
5 Evans
4 Reed
3 James
2 Rees (capt)
1 Gill

16 Mitchell
17 Owens
18 AWJ
19 Warburton or Tipuric
20 L Williams
21 S Williams or Beck
22 Henson or Hook

I think we'll just agree to disagree on this issue - but you're quite wrong in saying Hook has "often been moved to IC at USAP." He is the number one choice at 10 and has started and finished every major game this year at 10.

But putting that aside, this thread is about RP, not Hook. Some chargedowns are worse than others, depending on the pressure the kicker is under. RP was under no pressure at all on Saturday. He had, for once, decent service from Phillips, but he took forever to set himself up, allowing Botha to lumber up from the far distance. It was this complete lack of awareness what was going on around him that was the problem. Scott Williams, btw, saved Priestland's and our bacon with a great tackle from behind on Botha when he looked certain to flop over the line.

As we won this game and the press/fans have been bigging up RP, nobody wants to see what was in front of their face - a complete disintegration. Those missed penalty touches alone were unbelievable at this level.

Let's see if the guy can get back on track versus Italy.

I wouldn't make any changes unles injury dictates otherwise. My preference would be to start same XV, hopefully get a good lead then use players of the bench.

If Roberts is out then Sc Williams should start which would give Beck maybe a chance of the bench.

bedfordwelsh wrote:I wouldn't make any changes unles injury dictates otherwise. My preference would be to start same XV, hopefully get a good lead then use players off the bench.

If Roberts is out then Sc Williams should start which would give Beck maybe a chance of the bench.

Agree with that. It does look like JR will be out, and, frankly, I thought we looked more dangerous with Williams there. No point in Byrne on the bench as he only covers one position. Either he starts or not in 22.

Like a few years back England done their work on Roberts and tied him up pretty well.

I'll adjust my comment a bit and say that even if Roberts is fit I would give him that extra bit of recovery time ready for the France game.

samuraidragon wrote:I think we'll just agree to disagree on this issue - but you're quite wrong in saying Hook has "often been moved to IC at USAP." He is the number one choice at 10 and has started and finished every major game this year at 10.

But putting that aside, this thread is about RP, not Hook. Some chargedowns are worse than others, depending on the pressure the kicker is under. RP was under no pressure at all on Saturday. He had, for once, decent service from Phillips, but he took forever to set himself up, allowing Botha to lumber up from the far distance. It was this complete lack of awareness what was going on around him that was the problem. Scott Williams, btw, saved Priestland's and our bacon with a great tackle from behind on Botha when he looked certain to flop over the line.

As we won this game and the press/fans have been bigging up RP, nobody wants to see what was in front of their face - a complete disintegration. Those missed penalty touches alone were unbelievable at this level.

Let's see if the guy can get back on track versus Italy.

Samurai, I might be wrong (can easily ask my buddy who works in France) but almost certain he has been moved to I/C at least three times during his first season, he might be playing and fitting in better now and you would expect USAP to perservre with him considering the investment, but there are grumblings already down there

Nobody has mentioned Charteris who is set for a return.If he plays for Dragons and does ok do we start him?Bench him?Ignore him?
In my mind it is beteen him and AWJ to partner Evans.I am biased as a Dragons fan but he is the most improved player over the last 2 years and was outstanding on a global scale in NZ.

bedfordwelsh wrote:Like a few years back England done their work on Roberts and tied him up pretty well.

And once again, we made their job easier by giving them exactly what they were expecting. We should have used Roberts as a decoy and gone wide.

Castro is apparently going to be back fit for this one for Italy.

I think our biggest selection headaches are going to come with who are we going to have on the bench? The starting XV pretty much picks itself now, but the bench is far more problematic. There are so many players that could make it, who do you leave out??

I'd still like to see a few players, such as Gill, R Jones and maybe Liam Williams get a game - there by we can rest Jenks, Lydiate/AWJ and North and also Roberts if he recovers in time so that they are all fresh for the French game.

I don't want us to rest our players, we need to keep consistency as a team I think

I would like our first choice palayers to be on the pitch for 50-60mins, and only sub them off then IF we are in a strong enough position to do so.

This game has banana skin written all over it, and I don't want us to mess it up!

Let's see who's fit. I know I'm not going to get my dream team

15-9 Liam Williams, Halfpenny, Davies, Beck, North, Tovey, Liam Davies
1-8 Gill, Owens, Jones, Charteris, Evans, Turnbull, Tipuric, Lydiate.
16-22 Duncan Jones, Hibbard, Alun Wyn, Faletau, Wayne Evans, Steffan Jones, Eli Walker

We want to go into the France game with the chance of winning the Grand Slam, agreed? Okay then, so we need to make sure we beat Italy first and pick the team to do that.