wales are only great team when they win against australia, south africa,allblacks.

First topic message reminder :

Wales in my view good upcoming team but they need to beat Australia,south Africa,and new Zealand home and away. welsh people think they lose to south Africa, France, Australia twice then beat Ireland, Scotland and England there the worlds best.
when they play southern hemisphere sides, they lost game before they walk out on pitch there mentality needs to change.

miteyironpaw wrote:Well Kia, Wales (as they keep telling us) are the best team in the world at the moment

Stop lying, for feck's sake! If you genuinely have heard a Welshman say we're the best team in the world, and I doubt very much that you have, offer him some tea and phone the hospital.

2007 RWC we were a very poor team yet we reached a final,

2011 6 nations champs, what a laugh! we had no right to win that but win it we did.

2012 6 nations, lose a game against a strong Welsh team due to a poor camera angle or a great tackle, plus don't write us off just yet we could still finish joint top.

England as a nation can be a very stubborn race that never gives up.

Can we get the title adjusted from "when to "if" please.

kia, that was what I was trying to say. the kiwis don;t have 'a' great side, just a great converyor belt of players that gets absorbed into the current sides, who can cover up even bad debutants, and still win.

So can't identify a great kiwi side as such, just consistently good wining sides. Though winning do find them a bit lacking in flair, as in watching say the French or Wallabies when it can be exciting to watch, on their day, had to get that phrase in... LOL!

No, when I think of great sides I think of a squad of players over a couple of years, whereas you guys are seemingly up there all the time without any particular outstanding side.

hope you got my drift, am not bagging the All Blacks at all.

England beat just about everyone home/away 2002 / 2003, ranked No1 by IRB in 2003, and won the RWC for good measure. No other NH side has matched this run.

I know mate. I was just joking too. But taking it from the other angle we´ve had some pretty lean years. The 90s when you were at your peak and we had players like Ron Cribb and April Ieremia in the team are an example. There´s no such thing as a weak AB team but there are certainly many teams who were weaker than others. For ages our scrum and lineout were an embarrassment.

And I couldn't agree more HERSH. England are much like the ABs in that respect. Just when you write them off as rubbish they come back and bite you in a big way. There´s great stubborn pride in the jersey I´ll fully recognise. England have a great skill in playing below their ability and still winning. Last Saturday they punched above their current weight yet came off second best. I guess many prefer the former option to the latter which is entirely understandable.

Wales are a good side at the moment, whoever mentioned anything about them being a great side? Other than the usual suspects on here from across the Severn who shouldn't be taken seriously, no one in their right mind would claim such a thing so I'm not sure I understand the point of this thread. Or am I wrong, did I miss something? Please enlighten.

miteyironpaw wrote:Well Kia, Wales (as they keep telling us) are the best team in the world at the moment (on their day), so if England can be a poor referees call away from beating them, then that is "competing" in my book, and so assuming Wales would simply wipe the floor with everyone else, it puts England in pretty good stock.

You really like telling porkies don't you mate...!!!

Certainly not the first time I have read you post things that are invented.

No welsh fan thinks the welsh team is the best in the world. We will be top four at best currently fifth and unless we beat the French likely to stay there.

kiaka, how can you say they punched above their weight when we have no idea what that weight truly is? Maybe they still woefully underperformed last Saturday and have a lot of powder leftin the keg. Personally I think and hope they do.

I think the OP read too many gloating Welsh posts (even though there weren´t that many as England played very well and a draw would´ve been a fair result) and thought he´d fight back with some ammo.

Unfortunately that brought up talk about England rather than Wales. But that´s what happens when you throw stones in glass houses...

As for punching above their weight, I simply meant their two previous performances in the 6N which didn´t give a good account of England. This time they played with purpose on attack as well as giving nothing away on defence. I agree there is a lot of potential in this English side still to be untapped.

yes and going back to the OP, the welsh team too have potential to improve
but they won't beat the SH teams with the current 9 and 10, but throughout the rest of the side they look quite handy.

That they do but I fear that may be too harsh on Phillips and Priestland. Priestland´s goalkicking was average against Ireland but he was otherwise very good there and Phillips was superb. One bad game against England doesn´t mean they should be chucked onto the scrap heap. Roberts has not been at his best but he is coming back from injury. I think Wales can trouble Australia with their pack and have enough talent in the backs to contain the Aussies but they are indeed far from the finished article yet. But then again they are winning and and in the recent past this was not the case.

I think that the back row and Roberts have always carried Priestland and Phillips, I've never rated them leaving last Saturday aside. Phillips delivers slow ball, can't snipe and just gives the defence time to step up whereas Preistland is mereley proficient.........a Welsh Andy Goode if you like.

Don´t start off Chunky...

What he's not an Andy Goode fan is he ?

Preistland is mereley proficient.........a Welsh Andy Goode if you like.

How very dare you, he's nowhere near as good as that!

A Welsh Andy Goode

I always like Andy Goode he just needed a quality centre outside him and he would have been one of the best.

No, more the reference to Phillips delivering slow ball. It´s all part of the gameplan apparently.

I never understood that expression all he needed was a quality player outside him. It´s like saying all we needed to do was score 15 more points...

A World Cup and 3 Finals wrote:I think that the back row and Roberts have always carried Priestland and Phillips, I've never rated them leaving last Saturday aside. Phillips delivers slow ball, can't snipe and just gives the defence time to step up whereas Preistland is mereley proficient.........a Welsh Andy Goode if you like.

Wow...!

That is quite some statement, especially with Priestland touted as one of the best fly halls at the RWC by many international journalists, but we all enjoy reading every bodies interpretations on players whether we disagree or not.

I think it shows that some of those journalists may have got a bit carried away with Priestland at the World Cup.

His recent poor form doesn't make him a dreadful player but he's not that great.

No, his previous form over the past two years makes him a dreadful player

Who would you prefer Glas?

Jones, Hook, Biggar and Tovey (and Morgan and Steffan Jones and Shingler).

Priestland is nowhere near a dreadful player but neither is he that great and was totally outclassed last weekend by a 20!year old playing his first game at fly half for England

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:Priestland is nowhere near a dreadful player but neither is he that great and was totally outclassed last weekend by a 20!year old playing his first game at fly half for England

miteyironpaw wrote:How good was Nanai-Williams? I wonder if he has any Grandparents we should know about.

Looked real quick on his feet. Match was played in a strong rain, so was hard for anyone to really turn on the jets. But this guy showed he has real fast reactions, can turn on a tuppence, and accelerate. Scored one try that I recall, quickly picking up from a ruck and diving over the line - a smart, quick reaction kind of move. Good player.

Don't worry about the English grandparent issue. It is quite obvious to anyone who knows history that Nanai-Williams comes from solid old English stock. He is a close relative Duke Horace Horatio Nanai-Williams of Scilly, one of Her Majesty's closest cousins on the English side of the family. And one of England's oldest familys.
In addition, a very well-known Lord William Henry William Nanai-Williams was one of the heroes of Crecy. And General Sir William Nanai William Nanai-Williams was at Marlborough's elbow at Blenheim. And who can forget Duchess Nancy Anna Nookie Nanai-Williams who had that wild party-girl reputation in the early 1800s?

Glas a du wrote:Jones, Hook, Biggar and Tovey (and Morgan and Steffan Jones and Shingler).

Were you not singing his praises a while ago?

I rate Priestland, he has the occassional off day but in general he is a very good player. Has certainly achieved a more fluent game than Jones or Hook have.

Putting Biggar in your post as a better player is amusing. I am an Ospreys fan and I don't think Boggar is half the player Priestland is even when Biggar isn't being a petulant little brat.

I am very happy with Priestland at the helm.

doctor_grey wrote:

miteyironpaw wrote:How good was Nanai-Williams? I wonder if he has any Grandparents we should know about.

Looked real quick on his feet. Match was played in a strong rain, so was hard for anyone to really turn on the jets. But this guy showed he has real fast reactions, can turn on a tuppence, and accelerate. Scored one try that I recall, quickly picking up from a ruck and diving over the line - a smart, quick reaction kind of move. Good player.

Don't worry about the English grandparent issue. It is quite obvious to anyone who knows history that Nanai-Williams comes from solid old English stock. He is a close relative Duke Horace Horatio Nanai-Williams of Scilly, one of Her Majesty's closest cousins on the English side of the family. And one of England's oldest familys.
In addition, a very well-known Lord William Henry William Nanai-Williams was one of the heroes of Crecy. And General Sir William Nanai William Nanai-Williams was at Marlborough's elbow at Blenheim. And who can forget Duchess Nancy Anna Nookie Nanai-Williams who had that wild party-girl reputation in the early 1800s?

Nanai-Williams is a handy goal-kicker too. Though be careful, "Williams" could be Welsh

Kiwireddevil wrote:Nanai-Williams is a handy goal-kicker too. Though be careful, "Williams" could be Welsh

Shhh, Don't tell anyone. Nanai-Williams is rather short, just like all them Welsh Williams. Maybe the Nanai part is the English side of the family?

hey stop trying to poach our players just because of their ancestry.
Now Shane Howarth - take him instead

Oh stop. It is hardly the English poaching anyone. I told you it is clear Nanai-Williams is from an old English family. We know it is really you Kiwis who steal fine young English children in the dark of night and raise them as your own. And it is only when they are older do they remember their true roots and follow that strong emotional link back to the loving embrace of Mother England. Scandalous really.

He's pretty brown for POM though.
If he were truely English it would show through in a pasty white tan.
By the way did you guys see the name on the bench. Declan O'Connel. How's that for a good old Maori name - red hair and all.

Nanai Williams has largely been overlooked for higher honours due to his size. Pound for pound he's better than most. Under Smith he seems to be given license to unleash so he could press for higher honours if he continues with that form- took on the big boys with ease. He's always had that pace and ability to beat players.

Hopefully the Summer tours continue. Theyre at a time when all 3 SH teams are probably at the worst- first up tests for the year. The most likely wins will be the first.

If a team hasnt won one by the 3rd I dont think they will as by then the sxv form combined with test combinations over the first 2 tests will have gelled.

Winning the first will unsettle any of the SH sides and will halt their ability to settle- from there anythings possible.

nganboy,
He obviously uses a self-tanner. He would use the orange Gavin Henson type to blend in if he was in Wales. But in NZ, where sometimes in summer you actually have sun, he has to use the brown type. I like the attitude he displays whilst playing. Based upon appearances, he seems to show he really enjoys himself.
I did see that Declan O'Connel was in the lineup. I was thinking exactly the same as you that his ancestry was quite clear, probably from descended from a Maori chieftan.

Taylor,
This is the first season of the extended Super Rugby season, isn't it? I think your players might see the effects of this, not this June, but certainly in the November Internationals. Like a lot of people I believe the players in the North are playing too much Rugby, which is generally bad for thier health and shows in results. We now have the chance to validate if, in fact, this is true with the additional Super Rugby matches. Although I enjoy watching, and I have the Highlanders-Crusaders match on now, I feel this is too much.

great match wasnt it Doc- except for the timekeeper!Yeah its a long season alright. Bigger squads are supposed to help but teams end up playing their best anyway.

At least the Saders dont have the extra million miles this year!

Actually Doc I have heard that there is quite a few Maori Irish up where Declan is from. Supposedly there is a whole tribe of red headed Maoris. Weird eh!
Anyway this is our 2nd year of the extended Super Season. That's why we were so knackered last year. I think pretty much everyone agrees that it's too many games. Also because of $ most teams I understand have smaller squads than last year.

Taylor,
Yeah, that was a fun match. I really enjoy how the Highlanders play: Good forward power and some nice speed outside. I'm glad the Highlanders won their first match in the new stadium. Looks like a great place to play and watch. Crusaders are missing some of thier big boys. I gues they will start rounding into top form in time for the playoffs?

Nganboy,
Do those red haired Maori drink Guinness? Seriously, I would think its really weird to have Ginger Maori.

I guess the season is just about as long as the Northern season now. MOney is driving all of this. I worry a bit because people want to see the best players playing. If they are hurt, then the extra money brought in from the extra matches might be lost if people stop coming to the matches or watching on tv.

So Welsh fans like to think they have a half decent team and theyre slated for being arrogant. Love how some people's minds work <laugh>

The Welsh aren't too far away from these sides. I think the odd win over the Tri Nations teams will become more frequent because now Summer touring will be 3 games not 2.

So if Australia win their first 2 June games over Wales, they may end up making 5-6 changes for the final game having won the series, and it may let Wales sneak a win.

AlynDavies wrote:The Welsh aren't too far away from these sides. I think the odd win over the Tri Nations teams will become more frequent because now Summer touring will be 3 games not 2.

So if Australia win their first 2 June games over Wales, they may end up making 5-6 changes for the final game having won the series, and it may let Wales sneak a win.

Have to agree with that Alyn... I just hope that if a clean sweep or near it for all tours doesnt put them off or they'll end just as quickly as they start, the NH sending seconds instead- its happened before. Its a new concept to play a SH team 3 times in a row yet this way we do it regularly with the full 3N scgedule and Bledisloe cup.

I think the opposite is true in terms of winning a test...the first of any of the tours is more likely- Oz and NZ particularly are notorious starters to the season because we rely so much on key combinations clicking in this fast game and with the SH competing against eachother in terms of their respective NH opponents theres no chance of letting up a third test to rest players unless injuries are severe. Having that advantage going into the 3N is a real plus.

Given that I still think Wales have the best chance- overall strong all round and must take adavantage of the Oz pack deficiencies provided they still have them then. Ireland and England will struggle against their similar in style yet probably stronger oppositions.

The key is gelling as a unit on tour. Recent Lions tours here suggest NH teams can't cope with it so its whether a closer knit national side can hang together.

I think the wallabies haven't had the legs on Wales to prove a guaranteed series win.

They are a good team but they slacken off in the second half. A good performance and Wales could well win out there.

Alun I disagree with your post. To think the Aussies would slacken off if they won two is a poor reflection of a great rugby nation.

They did that against Samoa last year Maesteg and paid for it with a first ever loss. Deans wont want to go through that again.

Wales could win the series but if they strike an Oz that dealt to the AB's last year in Brisbane then it could be too tough. Don't know how Oz are able to pull off some fantastic performances then drop their guard easily- it may just come down to the number of times they play us- but their attack at its best is superior to any other by a mile.

This contest has the most exciting potential- two teams that love to move the ball wide and create opportunities...By the third test I think we'll have seen some fantastic rugby.

Yes they are becoming very similar, big fast backs, Wales have the advantage in the front row, oz in the second, should be a great series.

Many many countries have believed they would whip Australia through scrum superiority. In reality, England are the only team to successfully do so.

Australia were pushing South Africa around in the scrum in the RWC, and won more penalties from scrums than NZ in the 3N last year.

We saw in SW's farewell game that Australia are still in another class from Wales I'm afraid. And I don't buy the idea that Wales will win more now that there are 3 game series either. You don't win through mere perseverence and repetition. You win from being good enough, as it stands, I don't see that to be the case.

Maybe Mitey but I think one of the reasons Oz and SA and even France for that matter have many more wins over us is that they play us a lot more than the other NH sides. Familiarity breeds confidence...to a point. And this is what the Summer tours hopefully do- break down that perception that SH are somehow superior. By tours end I reckon the North will have real ideas in breaking down the barriers...

Or be going home with 3 defeats instead of the usual 1 or 2.

I suspect it will be the same excuses we hear though, the length of the season, tiredness, rust, injuries, different interpretations across the hemispheres...

If you use a Lions series as an example, the Lions rarely do better in the 3rd test than they did in the first, unless of course the home team bring out the mud trackers with the series already sewn up.

I was just wondering Mitey, as your interpretation of wales's prospects is invariably so negative, what would Wales have to do to change your lowly opinion of them?

Would a grandslam do it?
IRB 3rd place ranking, top ranked team in the NH?
A series win in Australia?
Beating any team Wales play over the next few years ?
Winning the RWC?

I don't have a low opinion of Wales prospects.

I have a high opinion of their ability to be overly optimistic based on very little tangible evidence of progress.

At the moment you'd think Wales had won the RWC, rather than come fourth, beating only Ireland, then being mid-way through the 6N (having lost to Australia at home in the mean time), having beaten Ireland courtesy of a poor refereeing decision, Scotland by not much more than a disallowed Scottish try, and a scratch England side by virtue of another refereeing debacle.

If Wales want to go on tour to the SH and expect to win, on this evidence they'd better pack their referees in their kit bag along with their rabbit's foot and 4-leaf clovers.

Tour matches when the result is sown up are largely meaningless to a degree.

The test has to be played because it was scheduled. One side is desperately trying to save face and the other is facing a no win situation, the motivation to win not coming from a fear of the opposition, but rather a need to maintain team standards- hardly a do or die mindset...

Of the 3 at least one will be 3-0 and at least 2 tests will be won,by th NH maybe more, but I'd say it will go the way of the AI's- of the 9... 7-2 or 6-3 at best. Don't think it will get as high as 5-4.

Could be wrong and if I am theres going to be some mighty matches...

miteyironpaw wrote:I don't have a low opinion of Wales prospects.

I have a high opinion of their ability to be overly optimistic based on very little tangible evidence of progress.

At the moment you'd think Wales had won the RWC, rather than come fourth, beating only Ireland, then being mid-way through the 6N (having lost to Australia at home in the mean time), having beaten Ireland courtesy of a poor refereeing decision, Scotland by not much more than a disallowed Scottish try, and a scratch England side by virtue of another refereeing debacle.

If Wales want to go on tour to the SH and expect to win, on this evidence they'd better pack their referees in their kit bag along with their rabbit's foot and 4-leaf clovers.

That is an incredibly contradictory reply.

I think there is a huge difference between this current welsh team and the team of 12 months ago. The former lost convincingly to England at home, the later has beaten them twice on the trot. Along with three victories over Ireland within twelve months.

Our IRB Ranking is pretty accurate, the teams below us we have beaten the ones above that we are close to we have lost narrowly to and the ones at the top like Australia have beaten us regularly.

We have a chance to change our ranking and improve it with games against the Aussies and French and we stand a bloody good chance of doing that with the way we are currently playing.

You may disagree, you may also be proven wrong and with your current posting trends there are likely to be a large number of Wales fans who will remind you of your scepticism.