Are Wales currently better than England at rugby?

First topic message reminder :

There are a million threads at the moment ranging from topics such as:

"It was a try"
"It wasn't a try"
"England are rebuilding"
"Wales will only be good if they can beat the SH teams"

A lot of these points myself and other Welsh posters agree with. Wales still have a long way to go in this championship, but at least for now, we can be very happy that Wales are better than England at rugby.

A cave dwelling nation of about 4,000 people who only learned to play rugby in 1962 and lost but all it's industry 3 decades ago. It feels great.

ChequeredJersey wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Respects to both sides...but us outsiders saw stalemate and a draw would have suited as a conclusion.

Of course you would. it would deny either side the slam!

Well now nobody ever called me dumb, correct. I was hoping for a draw for clearly selfish reason of course - you thought I'd deny it?

But I didn't say I was a neutral - none of us are in these games, no matter how we protest the latter. I was an outsider, and I still state clearly that Wales didn't deserve a loss but neither did England. A draw would have been perhaps the fairest result this 6N has had so far if it had occured!

maestegmafia wrote:Ha ha ha...! Well those are the stats and facts. Wales are a better team than 12 mo this ago. England appear to not be so good.

Triangulation wrote:I think you'll find that England actually completed more passes than Wales did. I think we were attacking you more/more effectively than you were attacking us.

How effectively can you have attacked us if you only amassed twelve points?

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

luckless_pedestrian wrote:

Triangulation wrote:In many respects England were the better side.

Which respects were those?

Starter for 10 :

Lawes managed to put your center away with an offload, something Roberts had failed to do all game.

This is by far the best comment I've seen on the match so far. Well done you

Yep - without Roberts or Lawes available for Wales, I wonder how they will find the linking play to score against Italy?

Maybe Wales could select Bergamsco at Italian Scrum Half? Hes a great provider of try scoring opportunities.

I think you're forgetting Strettles contribution - he couldn't have held that ball up a second longer. I have him on the right with North on the left.

luckless_pedestrian wrote:

Triangulation wrote:I think you'll find that England actually completed more passes than Wales did. I think we were attacking you more/more effectively than you were attacking us.

How effectively can you have attacked us if you only amassed twelve points?

Not just in the Wales match, England have failed to conjure any more than a lucky charge down in three games.

They have the worst attack of the tournament, the worst record for converting attacks into tries. They were very lucky to win the first two games, and you would need to construct a very objective article to convince anyone that they stand a chance against ireland, who are as good as Wales at the moment, or France in Paris.

It's looking like they'll also be without Barnes or Walsh and I just wonder if they'll be able to stem the flow of quick ball to the opposition without them?

miteyironpaw wrote:It's looking like they'll also be without Barnes or Walsh and I just wonder if they'll be able to stem the flow of quick ball to the opposition without them?

Mitty your on a roll.

Triangulation wrote:In many respects England were the better side.

but your living in the land of insania which is ruled by Mr Mad and his dad, Madder than Mad McMad. Wales munched your scrum, had more territory, more posession, made more linebreaks, made less erorrs, won more rucks, conceded less penalties, beat more defenders scored more tries oh and won the match. Thats playing badly with 14 men, a fruitcake at 10 and a dysfunctional lineout.

TO, "made fewer errors", rather than "made less errors".

miteyironpaw wrote:TO, "made fewer errors", rather than "made less errors".

miteyironpaw wrote:TO, "made fewer errors", rather than "made less errors".

I thought we were the better team when we made less errors. Now I know that we made fewer errors too I can't believe it was so close.

So youre saying that England had better tactics and better players, but made a few errors in execution which cost them the game?

I guess on their day they could beat anyone then.

We certainly gave them a good scare, eh PSW? They weren't expecting that.

We so very nearly won it.

I think I wasn't alone in that most England fans so this game as a huge positive.

Mitey, if by 'they' you mean the Welsh team, then actually yes, they were expecting a tough game at Twickenham. Only a fool would have expected anything less.

I don't mind admitting that I thought it would be much easier for Wales than that.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:Other related threads:

Is red the new black? Is white the new black?

Which stadium is better? Twickers or Lenners?

Is Wales at their best better than England at their best?

Is Wales at their worst better than England at their worst?

Which song gets you more pumped? Swing Low? Bread of Heaven?
In answer to your question Wales is better but it´s very close.

You know this is what bugs me. Swing Low isn't even an English song, it spawns from America. It's an old folk song sung by black people in the early 20th centurey. What the feck is that to do with England? Typical, you can't write any decent songs of your own so you have to steal someone elses!

Flower of Scotland was written....

by an Englishman.

And all the welsh used to be gingers.....but we did so much canoodling with welsh women that we turned ginger hair into darker hair...so if that's a fact tell me am i lying?

Have you noticed how things have changed since last Saturday?

Straight after the game, England fans were saying it was a game that they nearly won - could have won - bitterly disappointed to have lost. Fair enough.

But now the myth is well and truly established - it was a game in which England were the 'moral victors' - the 'real' winners despite the score-board. Apparently, it's France who'll give England the 'real' test as Wales did not.

I think the French probably feel that it's Wales who will give them the 'real' test - away in Cardiff.

optimist wrote:Have you noticed how things have changed since last Saturday?

Straight after the game, England fans were saying it was a game that they nearly won - could have won - bitterly disappointed to have lost. Fair enough.

But now the myth is well and truly established - it was a game in which England were the 'moral victors' - the 'real' winners despite the score-board. Apparently, it's France who'll give England the 'real' test as Wales did not.

I think the French probably feel that it's Wales who will give them the 'real' test - away in Cardiff.

Frustrating isn't it optimist?

miteyironpaw wrote:

optimist wrote:Have you noticed how things have changed since last Saturday?

Straight after the game, England fans were saying it was a game that they nearly won - could have won - bitterly disappointed to have lost. Fair enough.

But now the myth is well and truly established - it was a game in which England were the 'moral victors' - the 'real' winners despite the score-board. Apparently, it's France who'll give England the 'real' test as Wales did not.

I think the French probably feel that it's Wales who will give them the 'real' test - away in Cardiff.

Frustrating isn't it optimist?

Not so much frustrating as mildly amusing.

To misquote the All Blacks skipper, Graham Mourie, after they beat Wales in 1978 : "You never beat England, you just score more points than them".

It's rare for we England fans optimist, and it's something we learned from our neighbours in Wales, who are undefeated in 100 years of rugby.

I'm not sure that i have seen any evidence of so called moral victories being claimed on here.

Certainly not by me.

What i have said several times is - Well done Wales you deserved your win. You were the better team on the day. What i have also said is - we'll get you next time!

If you do look at the stats (for what it is worth) i think Tycroes did earlier on. They are remarkably even. Much like our head to head actually 56-55 with 12 draws. Its incredible!! Must be the closest rivalry in any sport in history over such a period of time and over so many matches.

In fact i challenge anyone in the world to better our rivalry statistically speaking.

But i digress. The stats are even and my overall impression of the match through my red rose spectacles admittedly was that we were hammering on the door pretty loudly certainly by the end in spite of wales vaunted fitness. Wales had the better of the opening 15 minutes and after that it was pretty damned even.

optimist wrote:

miteyironpaw wrote:

optimist wrote:Have you noticed how things have changed since last Saturday?

Straight after the game, England fans were saying it was a game that they nearly won - could have won - bitterly disappointed to have lost. Fair enough.

But now the myth is well and truly established - it was a game in which England were the 'moral victors' - the 'real' winners despite the score-board. Apparently, it's France who'll give England the 'real' test as Wales did not.

I think the French probably feel that it's Wales who will give them the 'real' test - away in Cardiff.

Frustrating isn't it optimist?

Not so much frustrating as mildly amusing.

To misquote the All Blacks skipper, Graham Mourie, after they beat Wales in 1978 : "You never beat England, you just score more points than them".

Yes that is true.

But the post says are Wales a better team than England?

Well at the moment they are.

They did beat England at Twickenham. And they are for the first time in a long time above England in the IRB world rankins.

So what is every bodys problem? It is no use saying what if this had happend, or what if that had happend. The Fact is that it did not Happen how "MANY ENGLISH FANS" inclding myself, wished it to happen.

England lost. end of.

miteyironpaw wrote:It's rare for we England fans optimist, and it's something we learned from our neighbours in Wales, who are undefeated in 100 years of rugby.

Not quite true. I remember an English mate in 1962 saying "Come on England, teach 'em how to play rugby" and they did. Wales were well-beaten, and he's still a mate.

Maybe over 100 years Wales has learned some good habits from England whilst England has picked up bad habits from us!

Oh dear. I think the five delusional Englishmen that voted NO need to step forward. It's time to be hung, drawn and quartered.

Morgannwg wrote:Oh dear. I think the five delusional Englishmen that voted NO need to step forward. It's time to be hung, drawn and quartered.

Possibly they didn't want to play along with the "I desperately need positive reinforcement" game that a few of the Welsh posters here are playing?

"Stop discussing the game, and just tell us how good we are!...squeeak, squeeeeeeak".

Tiresome.

Amazing isnt it. 90+ % agreeement in the poll and still the wels carp on!

Morgannwg wrote:Oh dear. I think the five delusional Englishmen that voted NO need to step forward. It's time to be hung, drawn and quartered.

Name and shame them, thats what i say.

Right Morgannwg.

Morgannwg wrote:Oh dear. I think the five delusional Englishmen that voted NO need to step forward. It's time to be hung, drawn and quartered.

I'd suggest they were not all English and were mostly people who realised that the whole point of this thread was to be smug and deliberately disagreed with the premise of it out of what I belive is called "conscienscious objection"

Indeeed, name and shame. Then hang, draw and quarter.

Morgannwg wrote:Indeeed, name and shame. Then hang, draw and quarter.

So now anyone who doesn't pay homage to the great invicible Wales should be punishable by gruesome tortuous death? Crikey, lucky you guys never really win anything.

And you had the gaul to call us arrogant for merely producing a bit of a premature video.

Morgannwg wrote:Indeeed, name and shame. Then hang, draw and quarter.

Are we allowed to do that? Isn't that only done for High Treason, such as regicide?

I read that the first time as Hugh.



Poor Hugh.

I think it's fair to say at the moment Wales are more effective at taking their chances.

England need to find a way to turn the kind of dominance they displayed last weekend in all facets of play into points.

Even if the referee is having a bad day.

That's one of the better posts I've read today.

Super D Boon wrote:You know this is what bugs me. Swing Low isn't even an English song, it spawns from America. It's an old folk song sung by black people in the early 20th centurey. What the feck is that to do with England?

You might not want to know why England fans started singing it.

yes you are better 'currently'

Oh dear, dear , dear me Wales, the Bubble is rising and expanding and eventually all that hot air has got to burst, and when it does, we won't remind you 'Principality dwellers' what a load of 'Fools Gold ' this Welsh side is. Lower in the rankings than England, 4th last year and 4th overall average in 6 nations, with a very lucky WC campaign thrown in and , Alacazam!!! Wales are top 3 material. No you aren't and never will be.


Ride your Luck and B.S. all you like, but the Welsh are the only people taking it in!

Wales are above England in the rankings though.

I'm going to ride our luck, BS, wave of euphoria, or even delusion all the way to a GS, if that's ok with you.

In exactly 9 days I'm going to write to Nike to see if they will start printing Wales GS 2012 shirts.

why wait 9 days?

why not just get them printed now, and whilst your at it why not get one that reads wales are above england in the rankings.

I thought after last year it was customery to wait until round 4 until GS shirst were asked to be printed?

I do have one where a Dragon is taking a wee on a Bulldog

The trick is to do what the Scottish did. Don´t put the year. Then when you do win, they´ll be collector´s items and you´ll be able to sell them for a fortune.

Currently, Yes. Will it last though?

lol. naughty boy!

but why would a welsh dragon urine on a 'british' bulldog!!!!

urine- huh did i say that

I did ask that too, but since the Bulldog is wearing a white shirt with a George cross I thought it would do a job, that way I could wear it for any sport...

EVEN BADMINTON!

ok lol- just had my 3 lions beat up a dragon thread taken down- not surprised.

but anyway- fact is whilst playing skrim earlier- 3 lions randonly attacked a dragon and ripped it to shreads- i thought everyone on here should know about it! tis all.

so therefore even though your dragon is better than a bulldog- it isnt better than 3 lions so