can this Wales side break into the worlds top 4?

How good is this Welsh side really? it will be interesting to see if this Welsh side can live up to its hype and put Italy to bed and then finally beat a top 4 nation when we play France as we havnt managed to beat a top 4 side for a while now despite looking capable of it, it all seems to go to waste as we fluff our chances against the worlds best, i can't wait to see what happens against Italy and i hope Wales don't hold back otherwise it could be close we must give 110% and play it as a final rather than a Sunday friendly, it would be amazing to see this Welsh side further improve on their performances against Italy and France and then we could look forward to trying to make history and beating the wallabies on their own patch.

Just hope the boys stay composed and seize their moments as it can be so easy to be too caught up in all the hype at the moment especially for such a young side. Interesting and exciting times, can't wait for it all to unfold!

Good timing pot...just posted this on another thread...Can you answer 'YES' to this?

Taylorman wrote:The Italy game is about composure and continuity of form.

Ireland put 40 past them and so should Wales. So often in the 6N the lower team strikes back and for Wales to maintain form a high margin is a must. Theyve shown good levels of consistency so far and now its about team standards, knowing how to score tries, attack the jugular, put them away.

No excuses for a mediocre result if theyre to be taken seriously as a great team. Great teams know how to finish off minor teams. KO them with 20 minutes to spare.

Are they up to that challenge?

Can Wales break into the Top 4? What's stopping them? The road is there, it's an open one. How fast a car have you?

But along the way, they'll be meeting other sides trying to do likewise. Top 4 is tough but it's obviously doable. Staying there for any length of time is the extremely difficult task...that needs constant proof of greatness...or at least very goodness

That's the key point fly.

The top five after NZ, SA, Australia, France, Wales and Ireland, are all very evenly matched teams that can take a result against each other at any time. It will be interesting to see who becomes the most consistent in that group.

Wales have been playing very well since last summer, they have also improved a great deal during that time too.

maestegmafia wrote:That's the key point fly.

The top five after NZ, SA, Australia, France, Wales and Ireland, are all very evenly matched teams that can take a result against each other at any time.

Eh? When did Wales last beat SA, Aus or even France? How can you say that Wales can "take a result" against them at any time when they clearly can't?

Yet you conveniently miss out England who have beaten these three sides (in some cases home and away) more recently than Wales.

Interesting comments.

Sure Wales can break into the top 4, i cant see any reason why they cant.

It's possible though not in my opinion probable -

They broke into the Worlds top 5 last week with a hard fought win against a team many thought they would/should have easily taken a result from, but as that game shows it won't be as easy as many Welsh optimistic fans believe.

Though as they themselves often admit 'it's in their nature'.

If Wales win their next two home games against Italy and France they will be in the top 4!

Whether they can then stay there, with a number of games planned against Southern Hemisphere sides, its a big ask. But getting into the top 4 is very do-able.

Maintaining a position in the top six of world rugby will be very difficult for many teams. As I mentioned above, the next few nations after NZ, bar England, are all very evenly matched sides that will be very competitive against each other

If we win the Grand Slam we ARE the 4th best team in the world behind the Tri Nations.

We are the best team out of the Lions teams at the moment, on account of having beaten England twice in the last 2 games, Ireland 3 of the last 3 games and Scotland, 4 games out of the last 4.

Clearly were the best in Britain and Ireland on results, but we really need a win against France to cement a top 4 spot.

The rankings are rubbish really, your only as good as your results to be honest and Wales or France are the 4th best team in the world at the moment. Though Ireland and England are only about 1% off Wales. I will add though a bounce of the ball or a referees interpretation is all it would take to knock Wales down to 7th spot as well.

I don't see why not. They almost beat France and Oz in the RWC.

AlynDavies wrote:Though Ireland and England are only about 1% off Wales.

What makes you think England are, this England side have played three games, they have had one decent performance against Wales last week otherwise they had a defence and little else to offer.

I am sure you are just being diplomatic in praising England to pander to some of their hardcore followers on this forum, but let's be realistic, England are currently not the same quality as Ireland, France or Wales. We need to give them a few more games to show what they are capable of.

Can they play like they did against Wales and keep the score down in Paris and maybe sneak a win over Ireland?Or will they play like they did against Scotland and Italy and get a bad loss?

We don't know...!

This team has so many changes that it has little if any reflection of the team that earns England their current ranking position.

If Wales win the next 2 games they get the GS and move up to 4th.

what does that mean?

To me it means nothing at all if we then go down to Oz in June and get spanked. It will only start getting some meaning if we can go down there and get 1 or 2 (or 3 wins) in their own backyard. Only then can we say we are making serious progress.

To me it is not a matter can they make it into the top 4?

It is how long can they stay their for?

I cannot recall many time in the last few years, that Walels have ever been in the top 4 at all.

Although i am willing to be proven wrong on this.

Precisely Doctor

Who cares about the top 4? Top 3 is the important bit. All you need to be top 4 is for France to have poor couple of games (which happens now and then)

doctornickolas wrote:If Wales win the next 2 games they get the GS and move up to 4th.

what does that mean?

To me it means nothing at all if we then go down to Oz in June and get spanked. It will only start getting some meaning if we can go down there and get 1 or 2 (or 3 wins) in their own backyard. Only then can we say we are making serious progress.

I completely agree, aft winning the previous grandslams we did not progress further.

I am optimistic though as this welsh team is a more rounded vintage than previous. They look a lot more capable.

Yes. They can win the Grand Slam. And while touring down south is daunting, I'd rather be playing Australia away than South Africa or New Zealand. The Aussie's are good but always a bit more liable to drop the odd game to European teams. If Wales win the slam and get one win in Australia, it might be enough to see them finish the season in 4th.Who are France playing in the summer?

Whether Wales do or do not win down in Australia in the summer the tour will be a massive benefit to the team.

Most of the players need the experience of playing Southern Hemisphere opposition in their back yard.

Feckless Rogue wrote:Yes. They can win the Grand Slam. And while touring down south is daunting, I'd rather be playing Australia away than South Africa or New Zealand. The Aussie's are good but always a bit more liable to drop the odd game to European teams. If Wales win the slam and get one win in Australia, it might be enough to see them finish the season in 4th.Who are France playing in the summer?

How often have the NH sides beaten Australia in Australia? England did it about 2 years ago (but that was only their 3rd time EVER). Wales haven't beat them since the late 60s I think. Not sure about Ireland or Scotland. Australia tend to lose more up here but not that often down there

The question is not can Wales reach top 4, in my opinions the top 4 spot is interchangeable between England, France, Wales and Ireland.

But that is how it has been for many years.

The question is what are they or any other nation team do to make the step up to compete against the Tri Nation teams.

The reality is whilst England, France, Wales and Ireland are forever in a struggle to dominate Europe, they have never really been able to step up and challenge the Top three on a consistent basis.

That is the challenge.

biltongbek wrote:The question is not can Wales reach top 4, in my opinions the top 4 spot is interchangeable between England, France, Wales and Ireland.

But that is how it has been for many years.

The question is what are they or any other nation team do to make the step up to compete against the Tri Nation teams.

The reality is whilst England, France, Wales and Ireland are forever in a struggle to dominate Europe, they have never really been able to step up and challenge the Top three on a consistent basis.

That is the challenge.

Could well be because the Top three play each other far more than any one else does, therefor their opportunity to claim decent ranking points and also to avoid losing them is different to teams that play them less....?

Agree with that Biltongbek other than England of course did regularly beat the SH teams 2002-2003 and went on that unbeaten run which I doubt will ever be equalled.

I think that is a fallicy Maesteg.

Irrespective of rankings, in fact forget about them because in the greater scheme of things I don't rate teams according to that.

The Tri Nation teams are and have been very difficult inded to beat at home, whilst they win 70% plus of their matches in europe.

maestegmafia wrote:

biltongbek wrote:The question is not can Wales reach top 4, in my opinions the top 4 spot is interchangeable between England, France, Wales and Ireland.

But that is how it has been for many years.

The question is what are they or any other nation team do to make the step up to compete against the Tri Nation teams.

The reality is whilst England, France, Wales and Ireland are forever in a struggle to dominate Europe, they have never really been able to step up and challenge the Top three on a consistent basis.

That is the challenge.

Could well be because the Top three play each other far more than any one else does, therefor their opportunity to claim decent ranking points and also to avoid losing them is different to teams that play them less....?

With respect, maesteg, that's a cop-out excuse. NH sides don't beat SH on a regular basis (except England's run in 2002/3) because they haven't been good enough.

All Wales need to is slam it and they're top 4. You should be aiming for top 3 though, 4th in the world is no big deal - breaking up the tri-nations party is.

maestegmafia wrote:What makes you think England are, this England side have played three games, they have had one decent performance against Wales last week otherwise they had a defence and little else to offer.

I am sure you are just being diplomatic in praising England to pander to some of their hardcore followers on this forum, but let's be realistic, England are currently not the same quality as Ireland, France or Wales. We need to give them a few more games to show what they are capable of.

Can they play like they did against Wales and keep the score down in Paris and maybe sneak a win over Ireland?Or will they play like they did against Scotland and Italy and get a bad loss?

We don't know...!

This team has so many changes that it has little if any reflection of the team that earns England their current ranking position.

I think England have quite a few talented players, have a solid defense. The problem is playing in the swamp at Murrayfield and the arctic in Italy, meant we didn't see much of them.

They stepped it up against Wales and could of got the win. I don't think there is that much between the top 4 in the 6 Nations to be honest. It's just an opinion.

Btw Maesteg, I'm never afraid to upset posters of other countries, I only post my honest opinions

If Wales are in the top4 at the end of the year - then they will have lived up to the hype following the WC and will be looking good for 3 years time.

biltongbek wrote:I think that is a fallicy Maesteg.

Irrespective of rankings, in fact forget about them because in the greater scheme of things I don't rate teams according to that.

The Tri Nation teams are and have been very difficult inded to beat at home, whilst they win 70% plus of their matches in europe.

The real fact is that over the last decade hardly any NH team has beaten SH teams home or away. I think the quality of the NH teams has improved and will continue to do so.

The order of merit may well start changing.

Though I don't see it happening immediately, possibly nearer the 2015 RWC as we start to see the real potential of the teams playing at the moment..

AlynDavies wrote:

I think England have quite a few talented players, have a solid defense. The problem is playing in the swamp at Murrayfield and the arctic in Italy, meant we didn't see much of them.

They stepped it up against Wales and could of got the win. I don't think there is that much between the top 4 in the 6 Nations to be honest. It's just an opinion.

Btw Maesteg, I'm never afraid to upset posters of other countries, I only post my honest opinions

Hi AD

I wouldn't want to discriminate your opinion, i just disagree as we have seen so little of England so far. By the end of the 6N we will know if they are any good or not. They have a lot to prove.

I don't see any reason why they shouldn't be top 4, top 3 is another story altogether.

Yep, if you can put away France and win a couple of games against the SH you'll get there and deserve it too

I don't think we'll even know where England are by the last game. There seems to be a new player capped every game, there is no way they will have a settled outfit like the currently better 6n sides until probably around Autumn. But there is potential there...

I was just saying that the Aussie's are a bit more liable to drop games to the Europeans than the other two. Ireland beat them in the RWC in New Zealand. We also drew with them in '09. England beat them twice in a row recently. Scotland beat in '09 or '10.

To me, the Aussies and the South Africans are the weakest of the 3. I can see Wales getting at least one victory down under.

Not really an epiphany billy.

How did i know that you would react to that Biltong

Yes. They can break into the top 3 in my opinion, maybe even the top 2.

Not convinced yet, Rodders, winning the odd game against Oz and SA won't break them through tough, and looking at their record, even with the team they have now, there will have to be a huge shift in mindset, conitnued development of depth and a sustained period of extra ordinary play from wales to get there.

Biltong I think their depth is improving but they need to sort their domestic set up out.

I believe they will win the GS and probably win the summer test series against Australia.

I think they will get better and better in the short - medium term with this side. Long term I'm not so sure until they sort the regions out but in the next season or two they will be very strong.

rodders, I can understand that the Welsh supporters are positive about the summer series, I can see validity in why they would think so.

Two reasons why they won't.

They won't send a full squad over there, have never before, so why would Gatland do now.

Secondly, the last three games wales came close to the australians, but those matches were done and dusted by the 70th minute. So those scores flattered them.

Yes on the positive side wales has a great back line, but Australia has the most dangerous back line in the business.

Wales could dominate the scrums, but they are weaker in the line outs than the Ozzies, as far as the breakdown, probably quite even.

The Ozzies don't lose at home easily, especially not against NH opposition.

Why is being in the top 4 a big deal for Wales?

Surely Wales should be trying to get into the world top 3.

Now that would be somthing.

I am not saying it is inpossible for Wales to do that, but that it is unlikely to happen.

Still all it takes is one bad day at the office for any SH teams, and Wales could win.

True, those bad days happen to any team, problem is it needs to happen regularly, not just twice as it happened against australia in the last 10 years.

Wales are NOT a great side and don't deserve to be near the top 4, which is not for the likes of the 'Principality' .

Any team can have a good run and even surprise themselves, as i believe Wales have done!!

4th in last years 6 nations, overall average of 4th in 6 nations and until recently ranked 8th in IRB rankings, while at the Worlds cup they did punch above their weight, but lost to anyone decent. This year they have done well, but are by no stretch of the imagination a top 4 side. Oh dear, i wouldn't like to be there when Wales are found out and that flock of Chickens come home to roost.
Genuine head and heart feeling here, and not a Wum.

This means that Wales are apparently just below Aus, NZ, SA and above France, i mean come on in your wildest dreams you can't really believe it, Can you??

english warrior wrote:Wales are NOT a great side and don't deserve to be near the top 4, which is not for the likes of the 'Principality' .

Any team can have a good run and even surprise themselves, as i believe Wales have done!!

4th in last years 6 nations, overall average of 4th in 6 nations and until recently ranked 8th in IRB rankings, while at the Worlds cup they did punch above their weight, but lost to anyone decent. This year they have done well, but are by no stretch of the imagination a top 4 side. Oh dear, i wouldn't like to be there when Wales are found out and that flock of Chickens come home to roost.
Genuine head and heart feeling here, and not a Wum.

This means that Wales are apparently just below Aus, NZ, SA and above France, i mean come on in your wildest dreams you can't really believe it, Can you??

What a bitter man

biltongbek wrote:True, those bad days happen to any team, problem is it needs to happen regularly, not just twice as it happened against australia in the last 10 years.

Over the last ten years there has been a steady improvement in the quality of players graduating Welsh Youth Rugby. That is making the difference to our international effort.

We have had a few set backs but things are improving constantly. If you look at welsh performances against the SH teams they are certainly getting closer results more regularly. This has to be converted in to wins soon.

Unusually we are not playing so many games after the Test series in Australia. It currently looks like just one AI. The Players could well do with some rest.

slartibartfast wrote:

english warrior wrote:Wales are NOT a great side and don't deserve to be near the top 4, which is not for the likes of the 'Principality' .

Any team can have a good run and even surprise themselves, as i believe Wales have done!!

4th in last years 6 nations, overall average of 4th in 6 nations and until recently ranked 8th in IRB rankings, while at the Worlds cup they did punch above their weight, but lost to anyone decent. This year they have done well, but are by no stretch of the imagination a top 4 side. Oh dear, i wouldn't like to be there when Wales are found out and that flock of Chickens come home to roost.
Genuine head and heart feeling here, and not a Wum.

This means that Wales are apparently just below Aus, NZ, SA and above France, i mean come on in your wildest dreams you can't really believe it, Can you??

What a bitter man

try using the ignore setting... you wont have to read all the trolling.

Maesteg, surely AI's are a cashcow for the WRU, you really think they aren't going to schedule more games?

biltongbek wrote:Maesteg, surely AI's are a cashcow for the WRU, you really think they aren't going to schedule more games?

The thing is the welsh side is keeping rugby financially afloat in Wales. People will go on about why don't people support th e regions better - it's because they're super clubs and churn out dirge no one wants to watch.

majesticimperialman wrote:Why is being in the top 4 a big deal for Wales?

Well im sure we would like to be 1st in the world

But if we finish the year in 4th then we will be a top seed in the next WC - which is why the Aus tour is so important.