Messi vs Maradonna

Hello



Messi better than Maradonna?

Messi is a fab player but let's get real.. Maradonna is by far the better player..

This is why:

1) He played in tougher match conditions. Meaning that he played in an era where attackers did not get any protection from the referee. The kind of tackles that receive red cards today were barely deemed suitable for yellows in his time. I remember a stat from the 90 world cup where it showed that Diego was fouled on average every two minutes Of course this makes a huge difference to the attacking players and their effectiveness. In fact just by watching clips of Diego it seems that a lot of the time he was off balance when dribbling past players; actually he had incredible balance but more often than not he would have to hurdle wild swinging legs which weren't even directed at the ball. With the kind of protection that players receive today Diego would be even more amazing.

2) This relates to the first point. Messi plays on beautiful, lawned pitches. Maradonna played on pitches that we'd now see in the 2nd or 3rd division. Muddy, bobbly etc. John Barnes was asked about Maradonna's 86 goal against England and he said the most amazing aspect for him was how Diego managed to control the ball at that pace and for such a distance on such a bobbly, dry, hard pitch. Barnes said it was all he could do just to keep the ball under control! Again, if you watch a video of that goal you can see how the ball is bobbling the whole way as Diego runs with it.

3) The balls. Messi plays with modern balls which are lighter, spinnier, easier to control and generate power and curl with. Diego played in the days of rock-solid leather balls. Remember Mitre Delta anyone? Believe me, it is much easier to shoot, pass and control with the modern balls.

4) Equipment. Again this relates to point 3. Messi has the best boots in the business. Boot technology was nowhere near as advanced in Diego's day. Anyone who's played footy on a grass pitch will vouch for how much difference the boots make in terms of control, touch etc.

5) Teammates. Messi plays in the best team in the world. They would probably be the best team in the world even without him. Diego took Napoli, a lightly regarded team, to two Scudettos and the Italian Cup and, I think, a UEFA cup. He played in an Italian league, the best in the world at the time, which was renowned for it's defenders. He won the world Cup with an average Argentinian side, providing some of football's most iconic moments along the way. He was the leader, the talismann, and the distinguishing factor in both cases.

The counter-arguement that I hear some people make is that modern football is more demanding and the standard is higher. Perhaps.. but Diego played in the 80's and 90's, not the 50's and 60's. Football was already very professional. Besides, the modern pace of the game is due to advances in nutrition and training methods, something the players in Diego's day did not have the same level of access to. Who knows how good Maradonna would be with access to the best of modern sports science?

Oh.. and maradonna could do with an Orange what Messi can do with a football



emancipator

i just had the same chat with a friend except i was defending pele who i saw as the GOAT whereas he disregarded him and claimed messi was the best.

But you have basically said exactly what i told him though he is so damn entrenched in his views. good article btw

The thing that sticks out for me is Diego Maradona never played for a team with the overall strength of the current Barcelona team. Take Messi out of that team and they will still do pretty well. Take Maradona out of the Napoli side or the Argentina team he played for and I don't think those teams would have had the same success.

I totally agree that Pele has to be put up there too. Pele was a different type of player, he was more technical/ intellectual rather than a dribbling type who plays more of instinct.

I have seen people dismiss Pele because he never played in Europe but those people need to realize all the top Brazilians/ South Americans played in Brazil in the 1960s.

Maradonna could do with a golf ball what he does with an orange also.

Absolutely agree that Pele and Maradonna belong in the same bracket... Messi, no.

Messi is a fabulous player without a doubt but it's still far too early to compare him to the likes of Van Basten, Cruyff, Best, Zidane, Di Stefano let alone Maradona or Pele. He does very well in a very very good Barcelona team but has failed on International level at the moment, the very best players make the most of a weaker side but he only seems to prosper in a good team.

What Maradona did with Argentina and Napoli, well only he could have done, he took decent teams to the absolute zenith.

I think Messi is Maradona without the off field influences. Maradona could have been so much better, and Messi by the end of his career will have surpassed Maradona's career.

Maradonna can do with an acorn, what Messi could do with a golf ball

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Messi is a fabulous player without a doubt but it's still far too early to compare him to the likes of Van Basten, Cruyff, Best, Zidane, Di Stefano let alone Maradona or Pele. He does very well in a very very good Barcelona team but has failed on International level at the moment, the very best players make the most of a weaker side but he only seems to prosper in a good team.
What Maradona did with Argentina and Napoli, well only he could have done, he took decent teams to the absolute zenith.

I don't think that is exactly fair at the moment, as he hasn't had a chance to play in any side except the fantastic Barcelona one of today. For Argentina, he has come during a period of upheaval and managerial changes, resulting in different systems being played, and different coaches ideas on how he should be used.

I think the mark of his greatness is how absolutely he has come to be regarded as exceptional in a team chock full of exceptional talent.

He was gifted a few goals by that German team in the recent UCL match, if it wasn't for the goals in that match he would be on a par with Van Persie for this season's efforts.

Messi will have earnt more accolades than Maradona (apart from World Cup's) and frankly Pele wasn't even the best player on his own Brazil team.

sodhat wrote:

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Messi is a fabulous player without a doubt but it's still far too early to compare him to the likes of Van Basten, Cruyff, Best, Zidane, Di Stefano let alone Maradona or Pele. He does very well in a very very good Barcelona team but has failed on International level at the moment, the very best players make the most of a weaker side but he only seems to prosper in a good team.
What Maradona did with Argentina and Napoli, well only he could have done, he took decent teams to the absolute zenith.

I don't think that is exactly fair at the moment, as he hasn't had a chance to play in any side except the fantastic Barcelona one of today. For Argentina, he has come during a period of upheaval and managerial changes, resulting in different systems being played, and different coaches ideas on how he should be used.

I think the mark of his greatness is how absolutely he has come to be regarded as exceptional in a team chock full of exceptional talent.

That's exactly my point, at the current time he doesn't compare to Maradona in the slightest, he has the potential to be there or thereabouts but personally think Maradona was a far more talented player.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:

sodhat wrote:

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Messi is a fabulous player without a doubt but it's still far too early to compare him to the likes of Van Basten, Cruyff, Best, Zidane, Di Stefano let alone Maradona or Pele. He does very well in a very very good Barcelona team but has failed on International level at the moment, the very best players make the most of a weaker side but he only seems to prosper in a good team.
What Maradona did with Argentina and Napoli, well only he could have done, he took decent teams to the absolute zenith.

I don't think that is exactly fair at the moment, as he hasn't had a chance to play in any side except the fantastic Barcelona one of today. For Argentina, he has come during a period of upheaval and managerial changes, resulting in different systems being played, and different coaches ideas on how he should be used.

I think the mark of his greatness is how absolutely he has come to be regarded as exceptional in a team chock full of exceptional talent.

That's exactly my point, at the current time he doesn't compare to Maradona in the slightest, he has the potential to be there or thereabouts but personally think Maradona was a far more talented player.

I agree. As things stand, Maradonna by a distance. I also think Maradonna is the more talented and that's not taking anything away from Messi who is undoubtedly an amazing player.

Best to compare when Messi's career is over.

He COULD win the world cup for Argentina for all we know as his best years are arguably ahead of him.

Why don't you just wait until Messi is not playing any more to compare him. Its totally pointless comparing now. When Messi retires in roughly ten years time he will be the best player to have ever kicked a ball by a country mile.

Maradona
Club
Argentina Boca Juniors
Primera División: 1981

Spain Barcelona
Copa del Rey: 1983
Copa de la Liga: 1983
Supercopa de España: 1983

Italy Napoli
Serie A: 1987, 1990
Coppa Italia: 1987
UEFA Cup: 1989
Supercoppa Italiana: 1990

Country
Argentina
FIFA World Youth Championship: 1979
FIFA World Cup:
Winner: 1986
Runner-up: 1990
Artemio Franchi Trophy: 1993
75th anniversary FIFA Cup: 1979

Individual
Golden Ball for Best Player of the FIFA U-20 World Cup: 1979
Argentine league Top Scorer: 1979, 1980, 1981
Argentine Football Writers' Footballer of the Year: 1979, 1980, 1981, 1986
South American Footballer of the Year (El Mundo, Caracas): 1979, 1986, 1989, 1990, 1992
Olimpia de Oro: 1979, 1986
Italian Guerin d'Oro: 1985
Argentine Sports Writers' Sportsman of the Year: 1986
Golden Ball for Best Player of the FIFA World Cup: 1986
L'Équipe Champion of Champions – 1986
United Press International Athlete of the Year Award: 1986
Best Footballer in the World Onze d'Or: 1986, 1987
World Player of the Year (World Soccer Magazine): 1986
Capocannoniere (Serie A top scorer): 1987–88
Golden Ball for services to football (France Football): 1996
Argentine Sports Writers' Sportsman of the Century: 1999
Marca Leyenda: 1999
Argentine Senate "Domingo Faustino Sarmiento" recognition for lifetime achievement:
"FIFA Goal of the Century" (1986 (2–1) v. England; second goal): 2002
FIFA Player of the Century
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Messi
Barcelona
La Liga (5): 2004–05, 2005–06, 2008–09, 2009–10, 2010–11
Copa del Rey (1): 2008–09
Supercopa de España (5): 2005, 2006, 2009, 2010, 2011
UEFA Champions League (3): 2005–06, 2008–09, 2010–11
UEFA Super Cup (2): 2009, 2011
FIFA Club World Cup (2): 2009, 2011

Argentina
FIFA U-20 World Cup: 2005
Olympic Gold Medal: 2008

Individual
FIFA Ballon d'Or: (2) 2010, 2011
Ballon d'Or: (1) 2009
FIFA World Player of the Year: (1) 2009
World Soccer Player of the Year: (2) 2009, 2011
World Soccer Young Player of the Year: (3) 2006, 2007, 2008
ESM Team of the Year: (5) 2005–06, 2007–08, 2008–09, 2009–10, 2010–11
European Golden Shoe: (1) 2010
La Liga top goalscorer: (1) 2010
Copa del Rey top goalscorer: (1) 2011
La Liga Player of the Year: (3) 2009, 2010, 2011
LFP Best Player: (3) 2009, 2010, 2011
LFP Best Forward: (3) 2009, 2010, 2011
La Liga Foreign Player of the Year: (3) 2007, 2009, 2010
La Liga Ibero-American Player of the Year: (4) 2007, 2009, 2010, 2011
UEFA Champions League top goalscorer: (3) 2009, 2010, 2011
UEFA Best Player in Europe Award: (1) 2011
UEFA Club Footballer of the Year: (1) 2009
UEFA Champions League Forward of the Year: (1) 2009
UEFA Champions League Final Man of the Match: (1) 2011
UEFA Team of the Year: (4) 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011
Onze d'Or: (3) 2009, 2010, 2011
Bravo Award: (1) 2007
Tuttosport Golden Boy: (1) 2005
FIFA Club World Cup Golden Ball: (2) 2009, 2011
FIFA U-20 World Cup Player of the Tournament: (1) 2005
FIFA U-20 World Cup top goalscorer: (1) 2005
Copa América Young Player of the Tournament: (1) 2007
FIFPro World Young Player of the Year: (3) 2006, 2007, 2008
FIFA/FIFPro World XI: (5) 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011
Olimpia de Oro: (1) 2011
Olimpia de Plata: (6) 2005, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011
Male Best Athlete in Latin America: (1) 2011
Marca Leyenda: (1) 2009
L'Équipe Champion of Champions: (1) 2011
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think some people forget that Messi is only 24 aswell.

dublfcynwa wrote:Why don't you just wait until Messi is not playing any more to compare him. Its totally pointless comparing now. When Messi retires in roughly ten years time he will be the best player to have ever kicked a ball by a country mile.

While you're at it can you also give me the lottery numbers for next week?

There is a difference between the most successful player of all time and the most gifted, talented. Messi may become the most successful (although I doubt it, Pele has 3 world cups) but he is not, imo, more talented than Maradonna. In the era and conditions in which Maradonna played he was the stand out talent. I think those conditions were tougher for an attacking player to be successful in than today due to the reasons outlined in the OP. Maradonna shone in an era of attacking talent encompassing Platini, Gullit, Van Basten, Baggio, Klinnsmann, Mathaeus, just to name a few. In contrast there are fewer stand out (all time great) attacking players in this era.

2 reasons why this argument is void imo.

1. Messi hasn't finished playing yet

2. How many people who say Messi but weren't even born when pele,maradona etc was playing



All I can say Messi I the best player I've seen play in my lifetime.

That's a fair point. Messi has time to get even better and you guys are right in that a real and fair comparison can only take place when he hangs up his boots.

Maradona for me still though he did not have as tough an opposition.

Pele was great too but it's like comparing Laver and Federer.....too much of different eras.

Simple really, both are/were easily the best of the generation and consistenly so, the only difference I can see is that Maradonna was the best on earth for a decade or so and Messi has only been that good for a few years, so for Messi to be ranked as good as Maradonna, he'll have to maintain this standard for at least another 5 years.

...and just to be fair about this, why are goal scorers only ever mentioned as being the best players?
For me Beckenbauer is the best man ever to be involved in footballer, he was the most dependable player on earth for quite a while, one of the best managers and thinkers in the game, as his nickname says, he really is Der Kaiser

emancipator wrote:

dublfcynwa wrote:Why don't you just wait until Messi is not playing any more to compare him. Its totally pointless comparing now. When Messi retires in roughly ten years time he will be the best player to have ever kicked a ball by a country mile.

While you're at it can you also give me the lottery numbers for next week?

There is a difference between the most successful player of all time and the most gifted, talented. Messi may become the most successful (although I doubt it, Pele has 3 world cups) but he is not, imo, more talented than Maradonna. In the era and conditions in which Maradonna played he was the stand out talent. I think those conditions were tougher for an attacking player to be successful in than today due to the reasons outlined in the OP. Maradonna shone in an era of attacking talent encompassing Platini, Gullit, Van Basten, Baggio, Klinnsmann, Mathaeus, just to name a few. In contrast there are fewer stand out (all time great) attacking players in this era.

Are you trying to say the standard of football has got worse since Maradona was around?

One thing is true.

Messi is far ahead of Maradona at the same stage in their careers.

It's what he does from now on is what matters.

dublfcynwa wrote:

emancipator wrote:

dublfcynwa wrote:Why don't you just wait until Messi is not playing any more to compare him. Its totally pointless comparing now. When Messi retires in roughly ten years time he will be the best player to have ever kicked a ball by a country mile.

While you're at it can you also give me the lottery numbers for next week?

There is a difference between the most successful player of all time and the most gifted, talented. Messi may become the most successful (although I doubt it, Pele has 3 world cups) but he is not, imo, more talented than Maradonna. In the era and conditions in which Maradonna played he was the stand out talent. I think those conditions were tougher for an attacking player to be successful in than today due to the reasons outlined in the OP. Maradonna shone in an era of attacking talent encompassing Platini, Gullit, Van Basten, Baggio, Klinnsmann, Mathaeus, just to name a few. In contrast there are fewer stand out (all time great) attacking players in this era.

Are you trying to say the standard of football has got worse since Maradona was around?

No, but the conditions were tougher to play in. The OP explains my point of view.

emancipator

Maradona was past his best IMO when Baggio and Klinsmann started to stand out in 1990.

He had Platini and not so much, Laudrup for company in the early - mid 80's and then the Dutch guys in the late 80's but he wasn't the same player in the 90 world cup and beyond. Still very good but others had caught him.

If Ronaldo was in the current Barcelona team instead of Messi then he would of smashed the club scoring record months ago. With Iniesta and Xavi feeding him, he would be unstoppable.

Messi would not have scored as many goals for R. Madrid as Ronaldo in the same number of games Ronaldo has played.

Top 3 players in the World for me are:

1) Maradona
2) Pele
3) Zidane

Then's it the rest, Messi doesn't compare.

Maradona easily wins this so far but Messi obviously has time on his side

Until Messi does it at international level (1 goal in Copa america and World cup Finals combined is poor) then it is not a debate

Maradona drove his team to World cup glory, he also joined a poor Napoli side and turned them into championship winners.

Messi has had a team capable of winning championship his whole career